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Martavius Jones is Interviewed about the Memphis Police Beating; Economy Grew Last Quarter; Michio Kaku is Interviewed about the Earth's Inner Core. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired January 26, 2023 - 08:30   ET




DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: So you see that picture now of Tyre Nichols up on your screen. The city of Memphis bracing for the release any day now of the police body cam video in the death of Tyre Nichols. The footage is said to show the police beating him nonstop for three minutes. He later died at the hospital.

Here in Memphis, there is anger, there is concern at his death as we saw this week in a city council meeting.

Watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It could have been your son, Ms. Logan (ph). It could have been you and your boy.

Don't gavel me. I'm here to let you know, I can speak without (INAUDIBLE).


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want the tape.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want the tape. And we want it now.


LEMON: So, joining me now is a man you saw at the end of that video, It's Memphis City Council Chairman Martavius Jones.

Thank you very much for joining us. I appreciate - I wish we could have met under better circumstances.


LEMON: But here we are standing in front of the police station to try to figure - they're going to try to figure out what charges are going to be brought when the officers -- if and when they're going to turn themselves in.

But this community is angry, sir.

JONES: It is.

LEMON: Are you concerned?

JONES: Very concerned, Don. Based upon how -- if the footage is as bad as indications say that they are -



JONES: OK, a man who posed no threat, no harm. You know, I think about it, he was 6'3". I weigh 160 pounds. This man was 6'3" weighed 150 pounds. So, he was a very, you know, slight man. So to think that he was so brutally attacked by police officers, the reaction, I just -- I'm hoping for the best, but preparing for what could be.

LEMON: What could be.

An indication of just how horrific this video might be, the police chief speaking out last night. I want to play that and then I want to get your reaction.

Here it is.


CHIEF CERELYN DAVIS, MEMPHIS POLICE DEPARTMENT: This incident was heinous, reckless, and inhumane. And in the vein of transparency, when the video is released in the coming day, you will see this for yourselves. I expect you to feel outrage in the disregard of basic human rights as our police officers have taken an oath do the opposite of what transpired on the video. I expect our citizens to exercise their First Amendment right to protest, to demand action and results. But we need to ensure our community is safe in this process.


LEMON: The police chief there warning and -- people of what's to come, trying to get them prepared, but also saying, hey, listen, there needs to be safety.

What do you think will happen when this video is released?

JONES: I'm hopeful for - for peaceful protests, such as what - what took place -- it was vocal, but it was still peaceful that took place at the city council meeting. I'm hoping that, you know, the police chief, the mayor and also the - and council will -- the council is willing and able to try to quell things as much as we can to - to hope for peace and really just provide more messaging and talk about this.

I think that when these - when the video is released, I'm hopeful that the district attorney will come out with charges and so that the public will see that swift justice is being executed in this situation.

LEMON: So, the fact that all of these officers are black, does it speak to anything about the racial dynamics of this or that - or to the training for officers?

JONES: It speaks to the blue. The blue, the color of blue, the color of law, whether these officers were black or white. More often than not, the victims that we see at the other end of this happen to be black. So, it's the blue. It's the training that the officers receive, whether they are black or white. To me that lends to this, or programs the psychological evaluation that does not take place when you are hiring and evaluating the people to become police officers that results in actions like this.

LEMON: Martavius Jones, thank you very much. We appreciate you joining us.

JONES: Thanks, Don. Thank you.

LEMON: Thanks so much.

So, just in, we have some news to tell you about on the economy. Major new on the economy. We're going to break that down. How much it grew, that's next.



HARLOW: All right, this just into CNN. New numbers on the U.S. economy's growth at the end of the year are in. Let's bring in Christine Romans, Matt Egan.


CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Strong number, 2.9 percent growth. That was stronger than a lot of people on Wall Street had expected. And you can see, it's moderating a little bit from the third quarter, but still a strong performance to end the year. And for the year overall, 2.1 percent economic growth for the year. That's - that's not recessionary. That's not recessionary at all. I was just joking with Matt, if this is what a recession feels like, bartender, pour me another, because this is really a decent economy to end the year.

And the latest weekly jobless claims, only 186,000. It sounds wonky, but what it means is layoffs are low.


ROMANS: And we, every day, tell you -

HARLOW: Even though we see these headlines.

ROMANS: Layoffs are historically low.


ROMANS: In tech, not so much, because they spent too much.

HARLOW: I know. I know.

ROMANS: They -- they hired too much. They're unrolling, unraveling.


ROMANS: But, overall, a strong end to the year.

HARLOW: I think this is really supportive of this great interview you did yesterday, Matt, with the chief economist at Goldman Sachs, Jan Hatzius. Let's just listen to what he told you.


JAN HATZIUS, CHIEF ECONOMIST, GOLDMAN SACHS: No, we don't expect a recession.

Our expectation is that we'll see still positive GDP numbers. We're saying -- estimating a 35 percent probability that it will be a recession.


MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Thirty-five percent probability there will be a recession, meaning they're betting on no recession. They think there's going to be a soft landing. And I think that today's numbers totally support that idea. I mean we've heard so much gloom and doom the past, I don't know, year or so, and yet the most powerful bank on Wall Street right here, Goldman Sachs, is kind of saying, let's chill out with the recession talk, let's tap the brakes on that, because inflation is cooling off, the jobs market remains really strong -

HARLOW: Strong.

EGAN: As Christine just mentioned. I mean jobless claims are lower today than they were a year ago.



EGAN: Think about how incredible that is despite these layoffs that we keep hearing about. A lot of employers, they don't want to let go of the workers that they have.

HARLOW: Unless we decide to tank ourselves in Washington.

ROMANS: Yes. Oh, I love it so much. Well, and yesterday in that interview about the debt ceiling, I mean, the Goldman Sachs economist warned about messing around with the debt ceiling and even getting too close could be catastrophic for the U.S. economy and the financial system. I think what's important is last year - or yesterday you heard from

three important voices, AARP, that's main street, you heard from the largest federal employee union, that's Washington, and you heard from Goldman Sachs and many others on Wall Street who say, don't tie big spending initiatives, spending moves, to the debt ceiling. Clean debt ceiling, that's the best thing for the American people, for seniors, for investors, for just about everybody who talks about kitchen sink economies. So, I thought that was interesting, three warnings yesterday about tying spending cuts to the debt ceiling.

EGAN: And, you know, the reason why we're even talking about the debt ceiling is what we saw earlier this month.


I mean this messy election of the House speaker, I mean this historic level of dysfunction has raised concern in corporate America and I think in Washington -

HARLOW: As it should.

EGAN: Right, that maybe there's going to be a mistake done here. I mean we know the debt ceiling has already been hit. It's this $31 trillion borrowing limit. And here's the problem. This is what the Goldman Sachs chief economist told me, it's that treasuries are the safest assets in the world. And so anything you do to question sort of whether or not they still are that safe -


EGAN: It could set off a lot of mayhem in the markets.

HARLOW: Full faith and credit, U.S. government.

EGAN: Right. And not to mention, this would hurt people on main street, too.

HARLOW: Totally. I love the last line of Yellen's letter, the Treasury secretary, to Speaker McCarthy a few days ago, essentially please do your job. Please do your job.

Thank you both very much.

EGAN: Thank you.

HARLOW: You can read a lot more about Matt's exclusive interview with Goldman Sachs top economist Jan Hatzius on Christine has a fascinating interview with the CEO of United as well. Take a look.

Thank you both for that.

Well, new research suggests the earth's inner core may have stopped turning and could actually start spinning in reverse. I'm going to learn next, along with you, what that actually means. We will be joined by the world-renowned theoretical physicist, Michio Kaku, next.



HARLOW: Well, this morning, we are learning about a shift in the earth's inner core that sounds like the plot of a Hollywood blockbuster. Scientists say our planet's solid core, which is actually disconnected from the rest of the earth's layers, may actually have stopped rotating and could even reverse course. This is a new study. It was published Monday in the journal "Nature Geoscience." And its authors, who are based in Beijing, took a very close look at the seismic waves from earthquakes that have passed through our planet's core since the 1960s, and that is how they were able to calculate the speed at which the inner core is spinning.

Are you confused? I am.

We're going to get to understand this a little bit better with our guest. Let's bring in Michio Kaku, he's a professor of theoretical physics at the City University of New York.

Professor, good morning. Thank you.


HARLOW: What does this mean?

KAKU: Well, at first it sounds like something from a Hollywood movie.

HARLOW: Right.

KAKU: The script is, oh, my God, the core of the earth is spinning backwards? I mean this is worse than having a tsunami or an earthquake. The stability of what you walk on is at stake.

Now, this report comes not from Hollywood, it comes from reputable scientists at Beijing University that analyze echoes. When an earthquake takes place, shock waves go reverberating around the inside of the earth. And by analyzing these echoes with computers, you can recreate a model of the inside of the earth. And, sure enough, the core seems to be about to spin backwards.

HARLOW: OK. But I read that this happens every 70 years, so we don't need to be alarmed?

KAKU: That's right. The bad news is that we know very little about the core of the earth. Very little about what's underneath our feet. The good news is probably there's nothing to worry about in the sense that roughly every 70 years or so, we're not sure, the center of the earth does seem to go backwards. If this is the core - this is the crust of the earth that we live on -


KAKU: This is the core of the earth. The core can move independently on the crust. That's the key. HARLOW: So the part we're on never moves in reverse?

KAKU: Yes, so the core of the earth sits in a pool of like molasses. And it's able to spin independently of the crust of the earth. So, in other words, don't lose any sleep over this. Probably it's a natural cycle. It takes place probably once every 70 years or so.


KAKU: But we need more data because this is new territory for us.

HARLOW: Yes, why do we need to know? I mean they spent a lot of time -- they studied earthquakes back to the '60s. Why is it important to know more about this? What are the implications?

KAKU: The implications are potentially enormous because think of continental drift.


KAKU: Why are the continents moving away from each other? What is driving it? And also earthquakes, the whole nature of the stability of the planet itself. We know very little about what's underneath our feet. And that's why this information from echoes, computer analyzed, is very important because it tells us the future of the earth.

HARLOW: What questions, finally, Professor, does this leave you with?

KAKU: Well, it leaves me with the frustration that it's under our feet. It's just - you can -- you can almost touch it, but it is thousands of miles distant. And we really don't know that much about our home. We know more about other planets than we do about the center of the earth.

HARLOW: Oh, that's so interesting.

KAKU: Like Mars, for example, is probably frozen over. Not much earthquake activity at all. So, we know a fair amount about Mars. We know very little about the earth because the earth is dynamic. Things are moving and churning at the center of the earth. That's why we have earthquakes. That's why we have continental drift and volcanos.

HARLOW: Yes, volcanos. My son's favorite thing. He likes to make them with baking soda and vinegar in the kitchen these day.

Thank you, Professor. I now understand it much better. We appreciate it.

Well, imagine traveling more than 4,400 miles to watch your favorite basketball player, only to find out before tip-off, well, he wasn't in the lineup. Do not worry, though, this story has a happy ending. And we'll show you, next.


[08:58:53] HARLOW: Here is your "Morning Moment."

A young boy from Argentina traveling more than 4,000 miles to Florida to see his favorite player on the court, only to find out that Miami Heat star Jimmy Butler would not play. Butler was ruled out an hour before the game due to a back injury just before tip-off. The boy's reaction was all caught on camera.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sad stuff. Jimmy Butler not playing tonight. We flew over 4,400 miles to see you play. Can we get a photo? A big face - oh, and that's when the kid realizes that Jimmy Butler is not playing.

Jared Greenberg, tell Jimmy Butler to take a photo with this kid. Please, Jimmy.


HARLOW: Oh, so, Jimmy Butler was actually watching that game at home Tuesday when he saw the fan's reaction. He made sure that boy walked away with one of his jerseys. But that's not all. On Wednesday, TNT's Jamal Crawford, who is also a former NBA player, tweeted this. Yesterday this young kid was so hurt not seeing JB play. Today his life was made. This is what it's truly about, along with a photo of the young fan getting to meet -- look at that -- his favorite player.

Thanks for being with us. We'll see you tomorrow morning.


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