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CNN This Morning
Kal Penn is Interviewed about Biden's Poll Numbers and His Show; Navy Searches for Spy Balloon Debris; Beyonce Makes History. Aired 8:30-9a ET
Aired February 06, 2023 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[08:32:02]
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: As the 2024 presidential election approaches, where's the enthusiasm? This as Biden gets ready to deliver the State of the Union Address tomorrow night. A new "Washington Post"/ABC News poll finds only 36 percent of voters believe Biden has accomplished a great or good deal, 62 percent think he's accomplished not much or little.
Let's talk big picture here with former White House aide under President Obama, Kal Penn, who you'll also, you know, recognize him from movies and TV.
KAL PENN, FORMER OBAMA WHITE HOUSE AIDE: Thank you. Thank you.
HARLOW: You got it. He is the host of the new "Bloomberg" series, "Getting Warmer with Kal Penn."
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Part of the reason I'm sleepy this morning, from watching him.
HARLOW: Yes. Oh, yes, it's great.
PENN: Well, thanks for watching.
HARLOW: We'll get to that - your new show in a moment.
PENN: Sure.
HARLOW: Because it's actually really important to, to the, you know, the future of the planet and stuff.
But, let's -
PENN: We try.
HARLOW: Let's talk about 2024. So, you were there in the trenches in the Obama White House.
PENN: Yes.
HARLOW: What do you make of these numbers? It even has independents more in Trump's camp than Biden's camp.
PENN: Yes, look, polls will always fluctuate. It's so far from the 2024 election. I think what's exciting for folks like me and a lot of others is, you know, Biden's the most progressive president we've had. This climate bill, for example, you know, that took decades of advocacy from a lot of people, especially a lot of young people who aren't necessarily young anymore.
And so one of the great challenges - and I felt this when I was President Obama's youth liaison is, young people are the only demographic that don't stay with their demographic over a lifetime. Obviously, you age out.
HARLOW: Sure.
PENN: So, any of the advocacy you do when you're 18 or 22, that comes to fruition when you're in your 30s, you don't necessarily feel that joy and that ownership, but that's exactly what's happening. And so I think telling that story and letting folks know, look, things are not a light switch. Change doesn't happen overnight. It's a really slow build. I think that's a really positive thing for the Biden administration.
COLLINS: But why do you think he's not getting more credit for that? Because, you know, you talk about the investments from the Inflation Reduction Act. But "The Washington Post" poll, it's 62 percent of people think he's accomplished not very much or little during his time in office.
PENN: Well, what have they done in their lives?
COLLINS: But is it like a - is it like a selling problem or like -
PENN: No, I'm just kidding. But, yes, I don't know. Look, I, again, poll -- one of my first bosses when I worked in organizing in Iowa in 2007 was Paul Toos (ph).
HARLOW: Yes.
PENN: And he basically kept saying, polls don't mean anything. He used more colorful language than that. But it's true, right? It's the idea that polls are very immediate. It's a very specific type of group that they're polling. I don't know how these polls work, but back in the day they would still only call land lines, right?
LEMON: You're right. You're right about all of it.
PENN: So, I don't know how to respond to those numbers. All I know is, between now and when the 2024 election is, is an eternity. And I think the president and the administration are doing a great job.
LEMON: The only real poll -- someone who said - I forget who said it -- is at the ballot box, right?
PENN: Yes.
HARLOW: The polls.
LEMON: The actual when you go to the polls to vote.
PENN: Yes, also, I mean, look at the last several election cycles, right? Neither Obama nor Trump would have necessarily won if they hadn't successfully expanded the electorate. And none of that would have shown up in polls.
LEMON: Or Biden. Biden has defied expectations. He's never going to -
PENN: That's it. Yes.
LEMON: You know, you saw what South Carolina did for him. He's never going to win.
PENN: Sure.
LEMON: Or, he's never going to get bipartisan support. I was very critical of him saying, what is he doing? He should have learned during Obama that the Republicans don't want to work with him.
PENN: Yes.
[08:35:02]
HARLOW: Did you say it just like that?
LEMON: And now - yes, just like that, because back then I was younger and my voice was a little higher. But -- and now Republicans are working with him and he's facing very tough opposition from Republicans and still getting things done.
PENN: Yes.
LEMON: But can we talk about you?
PENN: Yes. Always.
LEMON: Because this is about Kal Penn. Kal Penn - "Getting Warm with Kal Penn" on Bloomberg about climate and clean energy. This is a clip that I watched last night. It's about plastics. We're going to play it and then we'll talk to you about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PENN: We take a look at a problem we're unlikely to recycle our way out of, plastic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The perception out there is, what I put in my recycling bin, you know, the blue bin -
PENN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is what technically can be recycled. But in the reality, no recycling company anywhere is mandated by law to recycle what you put in the blue bin. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it very much falls into the category of
helping corporations reassure us about things we should not be reassured about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, a very real moment for that related to -
PENN: Yes.
LEMON: Because we have these separation bins in our -- you know, you pull out, and you put the plastic and cardboard on that side and whatever.
PENN: Yes.
LEMON: And then you take -- and you don't know what happens to it.
PENN: Right.
LEMON: My mom, who's from Louisiana, she's like, what are you guys doing? Like, why do you have things on different - like, she didn't get it.
PENN: Yes.
LEMON: So, the stats are staggering. Less than 6 percent of plastic waste is recycled in the U.S. And you point out that putting stuff in recycle bins doesn't mean that it gets recycled. So, what is going on. Mom is right! She doesn't even know.
PENN: See, your mom is not wrong, it's -
LEMON: Yes.
PENN: So, one of the things that I certainly didn't know about in hosting this show, you know, the take, as you mentioned, it's a positive, optimistic take on climate change solutions rather than the doom and gloom stuff.
That said, one of the big challenges with especially plastic recycling, recycling in general, the difference between what's municipally recyclable, meaning what you can actually toss in the garbage that's collected at home from the town or the city is different than what companies say things are recyclable, meaning, a lot of companies will say, OK, this toothpaste tube or this pen is technically recyclable, but it's not, because the cost of recycling takes more money than what you yield back from it, unlike a lot of the cans and bottles that actually do get recycled.
So, one of the - one of the problems there is a --
COLLINS: Wait, say that part again.
PENN: So essentially companies will pay to recycle "x" percent of their product, right? They'll pay more money than it costs, meaning more money than they get back in the plastic recycling, just to say that their product is recyclable.
COLLINS: Wow!
PENN: But in practice, it is not municipally recyclable, meaning you can't just toss it in the recycling bin in your town or your city and have it get recycled. People end up --
HARLOW: So what happens when we toss it in our recycling bin?
PENN: It ends up in the landfill. So, the challenge here is understanding what is municipally recyclable, what can be practically recycled, and what's just thrown away. And that thrown away component is a huge chunk of plastic. And that's, I think, what a lot of advocates are hoping that businesses will change is how we package things.
HARLOW: Yes.
COLLINS: That's like a massive scandal.
HARLOW: Huge.
PENN: It's a huge scam
LEMON: It's a scam.
HARLOW: They should have to label it differently.
LEMON: Do you recycle? Do you separate, I should say?
COLLINS: Yes, you recycle.
HARLOW: Yes. Yes.
PENN: Yes.
COLLINS: But, I'm saying, if you're putting your toothpaste tube in the recycling and it's not actually getting recycled -
LEMON: Yes.
PENN: Correct.
COLLINS: I mean - and I also would think the concern would be people think, well, it's not worth it, I'm not going to recycle at all.
PENN: There's a point in that episode, that first episode, where I tried to recycle Taco Bell hot sauce packets.
LEMON: I saw that. Yes.
PENN: And literally what you have to do, at least in this pilot program, is you collect all your packets, you scan a QR code, you log into a thing online, you print out a mailing label, then you find a box. You put the Taco Bell sauce packets in a box.
LEMON: Oh, my God.
PENN: Put the mailing label on it. Go to the post office and mail it off. It's like - I sort of joke like, you're lazy if you don't do that, but who is practically going to do that, right?
HARLOW: Yes.
PENN: That - is that what it means to -
HARLOW: Also, the freight uses energy. Come on.
PENN: That's right, the carbon that comes out of that.
So, I think the point in all of this, because it really is a forward- leaning, optimistic show is, what can advocates and companies do together to change the nature of that packaging.
LEMON: Well, that's the thing that I was asking you, do you separate? You separate.
HARLOW: So we only have one -- two bins, trash and recycling. So, not only do I separate, I go down to the recycling and I take out of the -
LEMON: Yes.
HARLOW: I put the glass and the plastic and the paper.
LEMON: Yes.
PENN: Yes.
LEMON: And it's -
HARLOW: And it's gross.
LEMON: So, I do it -
HARLOW: And I do it and now you're telling me it's not worth it.
LEMON: So we all do it. Is it worth it?
PENN: You know, look, to be clear, yes, look, we live in - in New York City, which has a wonderful, fantastic recycling program.
LEMON: Yes.
HARLOW: Yes. OK, good.
PENN: So, if you - if you live in a place that doesn't have that type of a program, I mean, you know, the idea that it's somebody else's problem, this is something you can do with your local city council, your mayor's office, your school.
LEMON: All right.
PENN: Those are - those are good things that can be done. But the larger issue is, the types of plastics, even when you see that logo at the bottom of a container, it doesn't mean that it's recyclable, practically. It just shows you the type of plastic that it is.
LEMON: Interesting that you wore green today.
HARLOW: Come back when you're host of "The Daily Show."
PENN: No.
LEMON: So, we've got - we have to recycle guests now, so, we've got to go. You're done.
PENN: All right, thank you. Thanks for having me. See you later.
COLLINS: This was fascinating.
PENN: You are - are you up for host?
HARLOW: Yes.
PENN: Yes, I'm guest hosting the week of March 13th. Tune in.
LEMON: Good.
PENN: And, you know -
LEMON: Can't wait for our guest appearance on the program, Kal Penn. Thank you.
HARLOW: Thanks, Kal.
PENN: Thank you.
LEMON: You've got to - you have to recycle, pay back. That's only fair.
PENN: That's right. That's right.
LEMON: Thank you very much.
HARLOW: Are you really trying to get on to "The Daily Show" right now?
PENN: I appreciated the bet.
HARLOW: Yes. Yes.
[08:40:01]
LEMON: Be sure to watch "Getting Warmer with Kal Penn" on Wednesdays streaming on Bloomberg Channel and bloomberg.com.
Our thanks again to Kal Penn.
Up next, we want to go back to Dianne Gallagher live on a boat where they're searching for spy balloon debris. Standby for that. This
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COLLINS: This morning, Navy crews are working to collect the suspected spy equipment from the Chinese balloon that traveled across the United States before being shot down off the coast of South Carolina on Saturday. Officials are saying that the debris was spread over about 7 miles in the ocean. The recovery effort is expected to take days, but it's vitally important to finding out what exactly that spy balloon was doing.
We want to go back to Dianne Gallagher, who is live off a shrimp boat off the Carolina coast. That's where that recovery effort is underway.
Dianne, earlier, you could see the recovery effort happen in the background. What are you seeing right now?
DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, I told you before, we're here on the Linda Ana (ph), a shrimp boat off the coast of Myrtle Beach.
[08:45:00]
We just got the call, as soon as we finished that live shot with you, Kaitlan, a little bit ago. Essentially, the Coast Guard telling us, look, you can't go any further. So, this is as close as we can get to the recovery efforts.
If you see behind me, this is the perimeter. So we're not even seeing what the Navy is doing to try and get the remnants of that suspected Chinese spy balloon. It's about 47 feet of water deep. That, though, is a Coast Guard perimeter. We've seen a couple of these ships now around here.
And a couple miles from that is where we actually start to see the recovery effort begin. To give you an idea of where I am right now, we're about three miles off the coast of Myrtle Beach, in this direction. And so, this is as close as you can get to this very large operation. Again, U.S. Navy divers, unmanned vessels, trying to get that up off of the ground, on to a ship, and to Quantico so intelligence officials can exam it.
And, once again, I have lost IFB as I get closer to the bow there. So, I'm going to pitch it back to you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Dianne Gallagher, live on a shrimp boat off the coast of South Carolina. Just got a call from the Coast Guard telling her not to go much further than where they are now, but monitoring that.
Dianne, thank you.
HARLOW: The Grammys. Beyonce making history, breaking the record for the most Grammy Award wins, but still her fans claiming she got snubbed for Album of the Year.
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[08:50:35] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Beyonce has done it, everybody. We were all here to see it and you were, too. You were a part of this. She now holds the all-time record for the most Grammy wins. So we can finally end the GOAT debate. It's done now. All right. Who's the GOAT? It's Beyonce. It's done (ph). It's not LeBron. It's not Jordan. It's not Tom Brady. It's not Mancy (ph). It's Beyonce. OK, it's done. It's officially done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK, so - but one thing -- one thing that Beyonce can't do -
HARLOW: What?
LEMON: And that is defy traffic because she was stuck in traffic. Beyonce etching her name in the record books, winning her 32nd Grammy.
Here is that very special moment.
Look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because we are witnessing history tonight. Breaking the record for the most Grammy wins of all time, be upstanding and show your respect, it's "Renaissance," Beyonce.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEYONCE: Thank you so much. I'm trying not to be too emotional. And I'm trying to just receive this night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So Beyonce, I hate to bring up the next -- look, she defied, you know, everything, but we're bringing up the negative because she didn't take home the Album of the Year. I'm sure Beyonce is OK with that. That award went to Harry Styles for his album, "Harry's House." In fact -
COLLINS: Look at Lizzo's (ph) face.
LEMON: What'd you say?
COLLINS: Lizzo's face.
LEMON: With all her wins, Beyonce has never won that category.
OK, so joining us now from - to talk about this night in entertainment is entertainment journalist Segun Oduolowu.
Thank you for joining - thank you for joining. We appreciate it.
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: Thank you for having me. LEMON: It's amazing. She was like, look at Lizzo's face. Look at --
ODUOLOWU: No, the -- the whole awards show - are we -- do we want - do we want to be honest or do we want to be like --
COLLINS: Honest.
LEMON: Come on. It's not --
HARLOW: What do you think?
ODUOLOWU: OK, so I will be - I -- first of all, whoever the sound engineer was for that show, fire - fire them.
LEMON: Why?
ODUOLOWU: The sound was bad.
LEMON: You thought?
ODUOLOWU: Like, listening to it on your TV, people came out garbled. And if I'm going to - if I'm going to watch a music awards show, at least let the music be clear. Let me hear the artist.
LEMON: I never heard it.
ODUOLOWU: But I -- it didn't sound good. The Grammy's have, like, they've got some explaining to do. Like to quote Bonnie Raitt, like, let's give them something to talk about.
LEMON: Oh, my gosh, Bonnie Raitt is one of my all-time favorites. I was so happy. She was shocked, but that -
ODUOLOWU: I - look, I love - I love her.
LEMON: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: I'm a fan of hers. Like I said, I use her song in my opening.
LEMON: Turn down the lights. Turn down the -
ODUOLOWU: Look, Song of the Year, I would challenge anyone, did you hear the song?
LEMON: No.
ODUOLOWU: OK. And that's my point. But - but she's the only one in the category who's the only songwriter.
LEMON: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: So for that in itself, I give her the award and it was --
LEMON: That was -
ODUOLOWU: There's a (INAUDIBLE). This was end when -
LEMON: That was her performing in memoriam.
ODUOLOWU: In memoriam.
LEMON: OK.
ODUOLOWU: So, I didn't have a problem with that. But Beyonce not winning Album of the Year --
LEMON: Why, Segun?
ODUOLOWU: OK, so here -
LEMON: Wait, wait, hold on.
ODUOLOWU: OK.
LEMON: Beyonce had a - I love that she had - you know, when you say she caught the spirit. In the beginning of her speech, she's like, thank you, God. And she paused, which I thought was an amazing moment. I don't know if many people like recognized that.
ODUOLOWU: She's -- no, she is a spiritual person. Like when Lizzo went up there and thanked here - or when Lizzo went up there and won the award, she thanked Beyonce for when Beyonce sang gospel.
LEMON: Right.
ODUOLOWU: And how it spoke to Lizzo.
My issue with what happened at the Grammy's is when the best of the best get on stage for their awards and their moment, and thank her and thank Beyonce, there's no way you cannot tell me it's not Album of the Year.
That dance album redefined and brought back a genre that had been gone.
LEMON: So - well, electronic.
ODUOLOWU: Electronic, dance, disco, the LGBTQ plus community that she thanked for creating it.
LEMON: She said for inventing the genre.
ODUOLOWU: For inventing the genre. And if you don't want to give it to Beyonce, let's remove the fact that I am black, that you are black and we're talking about Beyonce. Bad Bunny's album. Bad Bunny was the biggest artist of 2022. You can't tell me Harry Styles album is better.
But what I love about what Harry said when he got up there was, this doesn't - this doesn't happen to me. One hundred percent honest. Shouldn't have happened to him, right? Shouldn't have happened to him. But when you think about it, they've been snubbing Beyonce for so long.
What -- and he also said, art. You can't really judge art. And when they do this and they say that this album is better, I want everyone to go and read an article in "Variety" where they're - where they interview Grammy voters. And one voter, voter number four, who luckily gets to remain anonymous, said, I didn't listen to all the music and I'm not going to vote for Beyonce because every time she does something it is too portentous.
[08:55:09]
And he used the word portentous, which, by definition means too solemn or overly - like, overly in love with themself whenever she drops an album. And if you're on of the voters and you're going to go on the record and say you're not going to vote for someone because you really don't like them, then it makes that whole thing a traveshamockery.
COLLINS: And isn't that Beyonce's whole point with her past albums is about, you know, especially women feeling self-worth and feeling -
ODUOLOWU: Absolutely.
COLLINS: And what they're conditioned. And now they've grow up to what she is and now where she realizes she is.
ODUOLOWU: Yes. She -- listen, they -- she's the queen for a reason. And the reason that she's a queen is she inspires. Music, as Trevor Noah said, who did a fantastic job trying to vamp as much as he could with, you know, people showing up late for traffic. But, come on.
LEMON: OK. All right, so, listen, we -- it is our jobs to sort of criticize and analyze.
ODUOLOWU: Yes.
LEMON: But I will speak for Beyonce because she is a class act. Every time this happens and people are like, Beyonce should have won, she's always very classy about it, congratulating Harry Styles. I'm sure she would say, Harry, congratulations. (INAUDIBLE) out of --
ODUOLOWU: Yes, the queen rises above.
LEMON: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: The queen rises above.
LEMON: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: Even if the Grammy's took the low road.
LEMON: She knows.
ODUOLOWU: Yes.
LEMON: Everybody knows.
ODUOLOWU: Yes, everybody knows.
LEMON: Everybody knows.
ODUOLOWU: Everybody knows.
LEMON: Thank you, Segun.
ODUOLOWU: You won't break my soul. She knows what happened.
LEMON: Thank you. We'll let him sing us out.
HARLOW: They do.
ODUOLOWU: No. No, we won't.
LEMON: We appreciate you joining us. Have a great day, everyone.
CNN "NEWSROOM" starts after this break.
HARLOW: Yes, we could.
ODUOLOWU: No.
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