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Joe Biden Calls For Unity In New Divided Congress. Aired 7:30- 8a ET

Aired February 08, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

REP. NICK LALOTA (R-NY): I don't think those one or two incident necessarily reflect the future of where we're going.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Did you do any heckling?

LALOTA: I did. I was upset when the president lied about his statement on Social Security and Medicare.

COLLINS: What did you say.

LALOTA: I was vocal about that. I booed the president during that time. Call from New York, we call it the Bronx cheer. When we see something that we don't like, and certainly somebody was lying to us in our own house, we're going to give some feedback then. I hope the next State of the Union, the president is more truthful on those key issues.

COLLINS: So, when you have that line of decorum, you're saying basically, that you can be vocal aloud when you disagree with what he say?

LALOTA: Well, it's unfortunate the president would choose to engage in that rhetoric, and I think he - I don't know why he did it. But I think he was right to expect a reaction. Maybe he even did it for that reaction. I hope that's not our future. And the president needs to be truthful at key moments like this.

COLLINS: Well, then he had that moment where you got Republicans saying, when he said, yes, we all agree, no touching Social Security and Medicare. Is that advantageous for him though, or for Republicans. It seemed advantageous for him according to the White House.

LALOTA: It's most important is, it's advantageous for the country, especially seniors.

COLLINS: Congressman, thank you so much for joining us. I know you and your wife attended last night. Appreciate your perspective this morning on George Santos and all of this.

LALOTA: Thanks so much.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you. Alright, Manhattan's district attorney and one of his former prosecutors are continuing to spar over whether or not they should have charged former President Trump with multiple felonies last year.

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ALVIN BRAGG, MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I bring hard cases when they are ready. Mark Pomerantz's case simply was not ready.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That's Alvin Bragg firing back at Mark Pomerantz probably is going to talk to him next. He's the prosecutor who resigned because of that decision.

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[07:35:00]

HARLOW: Welcome back, a fight between prosecutors over whether or not to charge former President Donald Trump with financial crimes is spilling into public view all because of a new book from a former Manhattan prosecutor who was working on the case. That former assistant district attorney is Mark Pomerantz, an expert on white collar crime with a ton of experience prosecuting and defending organized crime cases.

Pomerantz says that if prosecutors were looking at similar evidence against anyone other than the former president, charges would have been brought in a flat second. He also compares Trump to John Gotti, the head of the Gambino organized crime family. The book is a searing criticism of Manhattan's current DA Alvin Bragg's decision not to bring charges last year, a decision that Pomerantz resigned over one year ago this month.

But Bragg says that Mr. Pomerantz's plane wasn't ready for takeoff. And that it's appalling that he insulted the skill and professionalism of our prosecutors. Pomerantz's book about his time and the investigation that people versus Donald Trump and inside account is out now. And he joins us live. Good morning, sir.

MARK POMERANTZ, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Good morning. Thank you for having me.

HARLOW: It is a riveting read. And it's a really important read for everyone to understand what you saw, what you did and what didn't happen. What I find interesting is that you didn't use to talk to journalists, you're known for saying I don't leak, right. Now you're out here with wanting to tell the world this story. Why did you write this?

POMERANTZ: Well, I wrote the book because it was an important story to tell. However, one feels about Donald Trump. He is one of the central public figures of our time. And if as I came to believe, and as others came to believe, he committed crimes, there was a substantial case to be brought. And he needed to be held accountable for those crimes. That's an important issue. And I thought it was important to tell the story. HARLOW: You know, Mark, there were several prongs to your investigation that largely focused on the over evaluation of a number of key properties to get favorable bank loans. But also, your investigation included that those hush money payments, you call the failure to move forward on those fronts a failure of justice. Why?

POMERANTZ: Well, I thought it was a failure of justice, because measured by the standards that prosecutors typically apply when deciding whether to bring criminal cases. Donald Trump was guilty, we concluded that he was guilty. Every single member of the prosecution team thought that his guilt was established. I actually went around the room asking if anybody thought that he was innocent, and there were no dissenting voices when we had our meetings about this.

So, we thought he was guilty. We thought we had evidence that was legally sufficient to establish his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. We thought we had a reasonable prospect of winning the case, of persuading a jury. You can never be certain and this case was not a slam dunk.

HARLOW: Right.

POMERANTZ: And there were aggravating circumstances, so, I and others, including the former district attorney Cy Vance, thought it was appropriate to go forward with the prosecution.

HARLOW: Even you yourself had told Cy Vance I believe and Alvin Bragg. Look, we've got about a 70 percent chance of convincing a jury on this stuff. So, not a slam dunk, but it was - you were counting the book December 13, 2021, when Cy Vance, the former Manhattan DA authorized you to move forward here with criminal charges.

My question to you is two-fold. Why didn't he do what I understand Bragg was coming in. But Cy Vance could have done this, right. And why do you believe Bragg didn't?

POMERANTZ: Sure. With regard to the timing, as I talked about in the book, we were working flat out when we got toward the end of 2021, in the end of CY Vance's tenure. We simply couldn't get it done and done professionally and well before the end of the year. I am sure he would have liked to have had the job finished during his term, but we thought it was more appropriate to do it right and get it right and not to have the timing controlled by decision of the calendar in terms of when one term began and one term ended.

With respect to the different decision that was made by the incoming district attorney.

[07:40:00]

I can't speak in detail about what went through his mind. I can surmise from what happened at the time and statements that he's made since that he had misgivings about the strength of the case. And what I take from it is that in these circumstances, when the stakes are so high, it's human nature to look for an overwhelming case, a case where everything suggests that a jury must find the defendant guilty that it's a slam dunk. And that's not the standard we apply. In the great run of criminal cases.

One can argue that it's a standard that should be applied to a former president. But my judgment, as I explained in the book was that princes and poppers, presidents and anybody else should be held to the same standard, and that you shouldn't be looking for a super abundance of evidence beyond proof, beyond a reasonable doubt, when you make the decision about going forward.

HARLOW: You talk about the argument of going slowly and methodically, getting all your ducks in a row before you do something that's never been done before. Right? No presidents ever been indicted for criminal conduct. Let's talk about what's happening now. Because in your books, you say that this decision by Bragg and the team was illegal equivalent of a plane crash, but the principal cause was pilot error. But now, what we've learned from reporting is that Bragg has been presenting evidence to a grand jury related to these hush money payments to Stormy Daniels. Do you still feel that way? Is this still a legal plane crash? Or do you see him doing now at least in part what you wanted to do then?

POMERANTZ: Look, I hope the investigation goes forward. I hope that it results in a prosecution because I think the evidence was there. I don't know that the facts have changed at all. Perhaps, we'll see overtime. But if the district attorney makes the decision to go forward, that's a decision that I would welcome. I believe it's warranted by the evidence. And I wish him well in that endeavor. This is not a personal issue or a fight. It's a disagreement about prosecution policy.

HARLOW: Just one final question, Andrew Weissman, who you know, served as lead prosecutor for Bob Mueller, actually called Bragg's decision, a courageous and not one that would be politically beneficial to him, his decision not to move forward when you wanted to. The District Attorney's Association of New York has a pretty harsh response to your book, Mark.

They say that a former prosecutor speaking out during an ongoing criminal investigation is unfortunate and unprecedented. They say that you've upended the norms and the ethics of Prosecutorial Conduct. And I wonder if you are sure, right, there was a fight over this, whether you should be even out there saying these things given the ongoing investigation? Are you sure this won't at all interfere with the ongoing investigation and Grand Jury right now?

POMERANTZ: Yes, look, I wrote the book, in part, because I believe there should be a prosecution, that Donald Trump did commit crimes for which he should be held accountable. The last thing I wanted to do or would do was get in the way of an investigation or a prosecution. And I'm confident I didn't do that. The investigation, the prosecution, if it comes, will be decided, based on the law. And the fact and nothing I wrote in the book changes either the law or the facts that will be available to the prosecution to prove its case, if the case goes forward.

HARLOW: But since you haven't been in the office for one year, or just finally, how do you know that? How do you know that those things haven't changed? And that it's not interfering.

POMERANTZ: Well, I know that the facts that I described in the book, were not secrets that were being shared for the first time. The facts surrounding the hush money. The facts surrounding the financial statements. Or facts that were in the public domain. On the financial statement front, those facts were summarized in a complaint that the New York State Attorney General filed and summarized in over 200 pages. The details of the case.

On the hush money side, the facts have been public for literally years. Michael Cohen wrote about it in a book. Stormy Daniels wrote a book. The federal government brought the case against Michael Cohen. The information was out there for everyone to see and my discussing it in the book and expressing my views and my conclusions does not get in the way of any case that might be brought.

[07:45:00]

HARLOW: Well, Mark Pomerantz, as I said at the top, it's a totally riveting read. And we learn a lot that we didn't know about what happened inside. So, thank you very much.

POMERANTZ: Thank you. Thank you very much for having me.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Well, from the former president to the current President Biden making his pitch for police reform revealing a conversation he had with a mother of Tyre Nichols, the man brutally killed by the Memphis Police.

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JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She said her son was a beautiful soul and something good will come of this. Talk to us, all of us.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back, everyone to CNN this morning and this morning, there is a disturbing new development involving the five former Memphis officers charged with murder and the police beating death of Tyre Nichols.

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A new lawsuit filed Tuesday says that they assaulted another young black man just three days earlier. Let me get to CNN's Nick Valencia live for us in Memphis this morning with more. Nick, good morning to you. What does this man say happened to him?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Don. 22-year-old Monterrious Harris, who was a U.S. Navy veteran alleges in a federal lawsuit that just three days prior to Nichol stop, he was assaulted by the scorpion unit which included the same five officers now charged in the murder of Tyre Nichols. He says that he was in an apartment complex waiting for his cousin to come outside when he was approached by men in ski masks who initially did not identify themselves as police officers.

He claims in this lawsuit that he thought he was being carjacked and tried to get away. Police say after they arrested Harris, they did find a handgun and some marijuana in the car. Harris claims in this lawsuit though, that police falsified the report and made no mention of the assault on him. He says he was kicked, punched and dragged across the concrete in this federal lawsuit, he is pursuing $5 million from the city of Memphis as well as the police department.

And Don, this comes as the fallout from Nichols' death continues. It was yesterday that the city attorney here says that they expect discipline seven more officers in the death of Nichols. Don.

LEMON: Alright. Nick Valencia in Memphis for us live this morning. Thank you, Nick. By the way, I need to tell you the parents of Tyre Nichols joined the First Lady Jill Biden as a guest at the State of the Union last night. Nichols died after being beaten by Memphis police officers while he was handcuffed.

So, joining us now to discuss all of the issues, Senator Cory - Democratic Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey, he serves on the Judiciary and Foreign Relations Committees, and has been working on police reform legislation for years now. We're so - by the way, the parents are going to join us in just a little bit. We're so happy to have you. Thank you very much.

SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): I'm happy to be here. I'm a little upset. I thought you would have had me earlier on the show, you guys started this morning show and kind of like waited for kick me way back--

LEMON: For lack of invitation. But listen, listen, you are - we're happy that you are here?

BOOKER: Thank you.

LEMON: You are outspoken on these issues. And I know that they are very important to you because we have discussed them and you have discussed them. You have lead - tried to put forth legislation. What did you think of the parents of Tyre Nichols getting a standing ovation last night, the mother standing with a tear, saying thank you to the folks.

BOOKER: I mean, that was a powerful moment and a powerful American moment where both sides of the chamber, everyone stood up and recognized that this is wrong. But her plea, a mother's plea of let some good come out of this, please let my child not have died in vain. She looked at us with a yearning heart to do something about this in response to this horror.

COLLINS: You're talking to Senator Tim Scott again, about potential police reform, right?

BOOKER: No, Tim and I are friends. We obviously are different sides of the aisle. But we have done a lot of good together on criminal justice reform in the past opportunity zones, HBCU funding. So, he and I've never stopped talking. We both have personal experiences that are very frightening in our encounters with police when we were younger.

Lindsey Graham, is somebody I've already talked to as well. So, we are trying to find a way forward. But let's be clear, this Congress will be harder than the last. Because now we have a divided Congress. I don't know what - where Kevin McCarthy will want to go if anywhere on this. But I'm not going to give up because I know a lot of these get into the news. But there are stories like this happening with too much frequency. And the police leaders I talked to, head of the major chiefs, even the head of the FOP know that we need to do things to restore public trust and create more transparency in policing.

COLLINS: Yes, Kevin McCarthy had a pretty stoic face during that line last night when President Biden was imploring Congress to get the job done on police reform. If there is going to be a deal disqualified immunity still have to be part of it.

BOOKER: You know, I'm of the opinion now that there is so much Republican opposition to doing that, even though again, people like Lindsey Graham have said positive things about reforming it that there should be some consequence. If you break the law. No one should be above the law. But I'm of the opinion now let's see what we can get done. It may not be the comprehensive bill like a George Floyd bill. But I want to get something over the line.

Again, in a harder Congress. I don't want to create too high expectations. But we're looking at smaller measures, not as comprehensive of a bill. The reality is like we did with the gun bill, I was really proud to be a part of that with - led by Chris Murphy to help get in more resources for community violence intervention. It's a bill that wasn't as far as people who believe we should have universal background checks or believed that we should have a ban on assault weapons, but it made America safer. We made strides towards a safer country. We've got to do that in the realm of policing now as well.

LEMON: So, I know that you're optimistic about this, because this is near and dear to your heart, but realistically, considering the makeup of the House and the Senate right now and the push back that you're getting from Republicans as Kaitlan pointed out just sort of stoic into sitting there no reaction when the president is talking about this.

[07:55:00]

Do you really believe that something is going to happen now?

BOOKER: So, I will always be a prisoner of hope. I'm in this job not to give up before you try. I have seen impossible things happen even in my 10 years in Congress. So, I'm going to keep fighting. But yes, absolutely. We couldn't get it done after George Floyd. We had an impasse. But now we have the House of Representatives controlled by Republicans, led by McCarthy. But what a moment of hope. Everybody wants to divide this country in this town, there's so much of trying to accentuate or manufacture outrage, pit us against each other. There was a human moment in that chamber that I felt, I didn't hear as much as I felt it when both sides of the chamber looked up and recognize the grief, the agony of parents that were standing in the gallery, that no American should ever have their child handcuffed, beaten to death, that this is something that we as a nation are better that and when I hear police leaders, because they're a part of the coalition that we've been building for now, two plus years, when I hear police leaders saying we need to do more to restore the public trust, there is the makings of a deal.

So again, we have seen the gridlock in Washington. But I've also been here for moments where we get incredible things done that people think, don't think we can do.

HARLOW: I was struck by the fact that you said that. I think it was just last week, you said there is an understanding on the other side of the aisle as well, that this is a moral moment. And you really think this time something some part of the George Floyd Act can get through. We'll watch.

BOOKER: I really feel that. We are Americans who share more of the same heart than we know. And that's where my hope lies.

HARLOW: Thank you.

BOOKER: Thank you.

LEMON: Always good to see you.

BOOKER: Really good to see you. Thank you. Finally. Six months, eight months, till I'm invited back.

LEMON: We've been doing the show for three years, where have you been?

HARLOW: Thank you so much.

BOOKER: Don't you think that's a nice jacket.

HARLOW: Don's always outdressing all of us.

BOOKER: It's easy to find him when I walked on this floor.

HARLOW: You see him (inaudible) rotunda.

BOOKER: Exactly.

HARLOW: Senator Booker, thank you so much.

BOOKER: Thank you very much.

HARLOW: Alright. Also, this morning, LeBron James overnight, breaking the NBA's all-time scoring record. We'll give you the highlights ahead of that if you missed it, while watching the State of the Union tonight.

LEMON: What do you think of that, Cory Booker? (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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