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President Biden Delivers State of the Union Speech to Congress; Republicans in Attendance at State of the Union Speech Object to President Biden Stating Some Republicans Want to Sunset Social Security and Medicare; President Biden's Statements on His Administration's Deficit Reduction Fact-Checked; Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC) Interviewed on President Biden's State of the Union Address; GOP Cheers Biden Saying U.S Will Still Need Oil, Gas For Awhile; GOP Lawmakers Heckle Biden, Call Him "Liar" During Speech; LeBron James Breaks NBA's All-Time Scoring Record, Passing Kareem. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired February 08, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:00:33]

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Some Republicans want Medicare and Social Security to sunset. I'm not saying it's the majority.

(BOOS)

BIDEN: Let me give you -- anybody who doubts it, contact my office. I'll give you a copy. I'll give you a copy of the proposal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to Capitol Hill, to the balcony here. Listen, it was very interesting watching. I was asking Kaitlin as that was playing, had you been as a White House correspondent to the State of the Union. You say you are always at the White House.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

LEMON: And you have been watching them. I don't know if I have ever seen one like that, to have that reaction. I remember the "you lie" moment with President Barack Obama, but I don't know if I remember one like that.

COLLINS: I think what's so different in those two moments is the reaction. When the "you lie" moment happened, everyone was kind of stunned. Last night it was like, that was lively. It was feisty.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: It was almost expected. LEMON: Yes. The president trying to cut through all of the noise and

heckling from Republicans. Did he get his message across? That's a question. We're going to break down the highlights. We're going to fact check the president's claims. And we're going to speak to lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. Plus, this.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, the all-time leading scorer, you have witnessed it, LeBron James!

(APPLAUSE)

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COLLINS: You went to sleep after the State of the Union and missed this moment. Watch now. It once seemed like an impossible feat, but LeBron James has now scored more points than any other player in NBA history. Does it make him the greatest of all time? Yes, we know the answer to that. We'll have more on it in a moment, though.

LEMON: There was a lot to watch on television last night, right?

HARLOW: There certainly was. But also an update on the tragedy, families still trapped beneath the rubble across Turkey and Syria this morning more than 48 hours after that catastrophic earthquake. We will take you live to the search and rescue operation as the death toll surpasses 11,000 people.

LEMON: But we're going to begin with the whole reason we are here on Capitol Hill with last night's State of the Union. It was President Joe Biden's first speech in front of a divided Congress, and it showed.

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JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Some Republicans want Medicare and Social Security to sunset. I'm not saying it's a majority.

(BOOS)

BIDEN: Let me give you -- anybody who doubts it, contact my office. I'll give you a copy -- I'll give you a copy of the proposal. That means Congress doesn't vote. I'm glad you see -- I tell you, I enjoy conversion.

(LAUGHTER)

BIDEN: Look, folks, the idea is that we're not going to be -- we're not going to be moved into being threatened to default on the debt if we don't respond.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: Folks -- (APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: So, folks, as we all apparently agree, Social Security and Medicare is off the books now, right?

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: Folks, my economic plan is about investing in places and people that have been forgotten. Some of you listening tonight, I know you feel it. So many of you felt like you have simply been forgotten.

BIDEN: Americans are tired of being -- they are tired of being played for suckers.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: So pass, pass the Junk Free Prevention Act so companies stop ripping us off.

Speaker, I don't want to ruin your reputation, but I look forward to working with you.

(LAUGHTER)

BIDEN: When police officers or police departments violate the public trust, they must be held accountable.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: Folks, it's difficult but it's simple. All of us in this chamber, we need to rise to this moment. We can't turn away. Let's do what we know in our hearts that we need to do. Let's come together to finish the job on police reform.

[08:05:00]

Do something. Do something. Ban assault weapons now!

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: Ban them now! Once and for all!

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: Fentanyl is killing more than 70,000 Americans a year.

(BOOS)

BIDEN: You got it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's your fault!

(BOOS)

BIDEN: So let's launch a major surge and stop fentanyl production and the sale and trafficking with more drug detection machines, inspection cargo, stop pills and powder at the border.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: Make no mistake about it. As we made clear last week, if China threatens our sovereignty, we will act to protect our country, and we did.

(APPLAUSE)

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LEMON: As we do with the State of the Union, we fact check it. To join us now, we're going to do the remarks of the president's claims, and Daniel Dale is here to do that. Daniel, thanks for joining us. I appreciate it. So President Biden boasted about cutting the deficit last night. Take a listen.

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BIDEN: In the last two years, my administration has cut the deficit by more than $1.7 trillion, the largest deficit reduction in American history.

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LEMON: Daniel, is he right?

DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: Don, this boast about cutting the deficit leaves out such important context that I would say it's misleading, even though his numbers are right. It is true that the deficit declined $1.7 trillion in fiscal 21 and 22 compared to fiscal 2020. But here's the key, experts have consistently told CNN that Biden is taking way too much credit for this decline when he suggests his own administration is responsible.

In reality, that decline overwhelmingly occurred simply because temporary pandemic spending from 2020 expired as scheduled. And not only that, experts tell me that Biden's own actions, his legislation, his orders have, on the whole, significantly increased deficits. Dan White, a senior director of economic research at Moody's Analytics, which is a firm Biden has repeatedly cited, told me this, on net, the policies of the administration have increased the deficit, not reduced it. How much? Well, the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, an advocacy group, estimates that Biden's actions will add more than $4.8 trillion to deficits from 2021 through 2031. And that group's president, Maya MacGuineas, told me before the speech the White House deserves credit for the $250 billion of deficit reduction they enacted through the Inflation Reduction Act but should also take responsibility for the $5 trillion of deficit increasing policies they signed into law or executive order.

Biden can take some credit, Don, for the economic recovery, which has boosted tax revenues. That helps deep the deficit down. But overall, what he's done has made the deficit bigger, not smaller. Don?

LEMON: So Daniel, he has also claimed that his predecessor accumulated a lot of debt. Listen to this.

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JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Nearly 25 percent of the entire national debt that took over 200 years to accumulate was added by just one administration alone. The last one.

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LEMON: Fair claim, Daniel?

DALE: It's more fair than the last. Again, his numbers are correct, but there is still some important context missing here. In short, Don, Trump won't solely responsible for the debt increasing during his tenure. Under Trump, the debt did rise by a quarter, it's now above $31 trillion. It went up by about $8 trillion under Trump. Some of that was definitely Trump's own doing. His unfunded tax cuts were a major contributor.

But a big chunk of the increase was the trillions in bipartisan COVID spending. That's when the big Trump-era spike in the debt occurred in early to mid-2020. Also, as always, some of the increase was because of spending that is mandatory because of decisions from previous presidents, from Medicare and Medicaid in the 60s to President George Bush's prescription drug benefit to Obamacare. So the debt blame game is common to both parties. It is tradition. But the reality is more complicated than the debt belongs to the president. Don?

LEMON: Daniel Dale, thank you very much.

HARLOW: Always keeping us up on all the facts. Let's bring in South Carolina Congressman and Assistant Democratic Leader James Clyburn for his reaction. Good morning, sir. It's so nice to have you in person.

REP. JAMES CLYBURN, (D-SC): Thank you very much for having me.

HARLOW: All right, did we just see the beginning of Biden's run for 2024 last night?

CLYBURN: I think so and certainly hope so. Let's finish the job. I thought that was a great refrain, and I do believe he has laid a tremendous foundation for doing that. And I think the American people is going to respond very positively. I think I someone with you say this morning that from the beginning to the end among independents his approval went way up.

LEMON: Seventy-two percent a positive reaction to the speech last night. So you grade it?

CLYBURN: Oh, I give it a little more than 72 percent. I thought it was the best effort I have seen from him in a long, long time. I do a lot of speechmaking myself, not nearly on the level that he does.

[08:10:01]

But you know when you are speaking to a group and you get hecklers, the way you respond to that I think is demonstrative of what kind of person you are. And I saw in him last night the kind of maturity that the American people would like to see in a president. He took on the hecklers, let them have their say, gave them a nice little smile, and responded in a very positive way.

LEMON: You brought that up without us even prompting you. That's on your mind. Why?

CLYBURN: That's exactly right. Because I think he gets a lot of flak from people about not being able to do well and gets off script. He went off last night. Did extremely well. Came back on and continued to pursue his agenda, which I think is a great agenda.

COLLINS: You think Kevin McCarthy should say something to his members about that?

CLYBURN: I understand that he did say something to them about it and they didn't listen. When you are dealing with kindergartners, it's kind of hard to get them to listen.

LEMON: How do you think that makes him look? Because, look, Kaitlan pointed out early, even Nancy Pelosi was sort of -- I should say, Speaker Pelosi, the former Speaker Pelosi, would calm some of the members down. But not -- it doesn't seem like it was in this fashion. How do you think this makes --

CLYBURN: Nancy never had to calm us down. Nancy -- we had discussions beforehand about how to respond to certain things and whether or not we should. But I don't know --

LEMON: Pardon me. Weren't there moments during the State of the Union where she would look and say, don't do that? Especially during President Trump?

CLYBURN: Probably so. I don't know if you remember --

LEMON: That's what I'm talking about.

CLYBURN: Yes, sure, sure. But we don't heckle. I remember a Democrat ever heckling a president in a State of the Union or any other matter. We may show disassociation with, unappreciated-ness of. We may could it with a smile or not smile, facial expressions. I'll sometimes do it with my head, bow, bow my head to pray, and I sometimes shake my head to say I don't agree. But the heckling, I mean, that's not the way adults act. You let the president have his say. You show your disapproval, but you don't heckle. You may not stand up. But yelling, calling the president a liar, especially when there is not a lie. It's absolutely the truth.

I have seen the document put out by Rick Scott. He didn't call out his name, but I know his name. The former governor of Florida, he was running the Senate re-elect stuff, and he put out a document calling for a sunsetting in Social Security and Medicare. And then Senator Johnson from up here in Wisconsin said we ought to do it every year, rather than every five years that the document called for. Now, he said some Republicans want to cut Medicare. Those are two that want to cut Medicare, and that to me made his speech all the worthwhile.

LEMON: I think they are taking offense, if I'm correct here, of tying it to the debt ceiling is what they're saying.

CLYBURN: I'm sorry?

LEMON: I think they are taking offense of tying that to the debt ceiling.

CLYBURN: Well, it should not be tied to the debt ceiling. We didn't tie it to the debt ceiling. What they are trying to do is make room for the cuts. It's been done before. We understand the way this game is played. I think Gentries (ph) would say, I don't get rid of it. I want to reduce it to the level of being able to drown in the bathtub. He was talking about Medicare when he said that.

HARLOW: I think we are out of time.

(LAUGHTER)

HARLOW: So many more questions for you.

LEMON: You wanted to ask --

HARLOW: We appreciate you. We hope you come back.

CLYBURN: Any time.

HARLOW: Nice to have you.

CLYBURN: My office is just below us.

LEMON: Looking debonaire this morning, as they say.

CLYBURN: Thank you very much.

HARLOW: He said he was trying to keep up with you. Everyone tries to keep up with Don.

CLYBURN: Absolutely.

LEMON: I am following in his footsteps. Thank you. It's always a pleasure to see you. Thank you so much.

CLYBURN: Thank you.

LEMON: So you heard it earlier. Republicans were outraged and heckled President Biden when he accused them of wanting to cut Social Security. We just talked about that a second ago. Coming up, we're going to speak to Congressman Ryan Zinke who says that the president was either lying or having a memory slip. You don't want to miss that.

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[08:15:00]

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KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: All right, President Biden delivering his lengthy State of the Union Address last night, but he did go off script as he was talking about oil and demand. He was talking about record profits for oil companies, as he started riffing on how long he believes the United States will be oil dependent. Listen for what Republican said at the end, how they responded as he was talking about conversations that he's had with oil executives.

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: And when I talked to a couple of them, they say, we're afraid you're going to shut down all the oil wells and all the oil refineries anyway. So, why should we invest in it? I said we're going to need oil for at least another decade. And that's going to exceed, and beyond on that. We're going to need it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Joining us now is Republican Congressman Ryan Zinke of Montana, who also served as the interior secretary under former President Trump. That was not supposed to be a laugh line, but it was for many of your Republican colleagues. What was your reaction to it?

REP. RYAN ZINKE (R-MT): Well, this suggests we're not going to be in the fossil fuel world more than 10 years, it's just untruthful. So, there -- because it was an outrageous statement. Fossil fuels are with us, it's part of the economy, and they're going to be with this economy. But to blame the problem on the executives? Look, we have high energy costs, it's not because of the oil companies, it is because of this -- the policy of the President. We have high inflation because this is a policy the President on spending.

So, if you -- if you look at high energy costs, which we're all seeing, high inflation rates which a lot of it has result of an excessive spending, then we are in the economy war. And I think that the speech itself, there was -- there was moments where accommodation, we're going to work with the Republican side, and I appreciate that. And he is my president, too, so I do appreciate that. But there was some blatant mistruths on there. The Republicans, for instance, would terminate Social Security or Medicare.

[08:20:07]

COLLINS: And he said they wanted to Sunset Social Security --

ZINKE: Sunset.

COLLINS: -- and he said some Republicans want to Sunset Social Security -- Social Security Medicare. That is true that Rick Scott did propose that last summer, I know what we've said now.

ZINKE: Terminating and sunsetting is -- would say that we want to end it, or not honor the protections and the benefit, that's not true. Speaker McCarthy had a conversation with Biden, he had a conversation with our caucus, that's off the table. The President knew it, McCarthy knew it, and the caucus knew it. And I think now the American public knows it too.

COLLINS: Regardless of the debt ceiling, though, are you open to making changes to Social Security and Medicare? Because I was looking at some comments you've made recently. You said, Congress needs to open up both sides, talking about mandatory spending, discretionary spending, you said, there are some entitlements that have outlived their lifestyle that no longer produce results. Are those two of those?

ZINKE: Yes, I think when you -- when you -- when you look at it, everything should be reviewed. But when you put 72 percent of the budget, and you lock it in the safes, we're not going to look at it. Look, when you look at the discretionary funding, military, I think there's room for savings in the military, too. You --

COLLINS: And that could happen with this defense -- this debt ceiling you think?

ZINKE: You know, I think --

COLLINS: -- maybe cuts to defense funding?

ZINKE: -- everything should be looked at in review. Some programs, for instance, you can't pay people not to work. And a lot of the COVID still is happening, where people aren't engaged in the workforce. As the President said, work is honorable, we should all strive to make sure we have a healthy economy, and a healthy economy is people working. So, why they're not working? There's a lot probably a lot of reasons, but we can -- we can join together, and make sure America is prosperous, and working as part of it. We want to make sure the Social Security System itself is viable and healthy.

COLLINS: So, you are open to changes?

ZINKE: I'm open to review and sitting down there in an honest dialogue, because we need to protect Social Security. We have Medicare challenges, we also have this huge looming, fiscally irresponsible budget that has been -- has been erected, and we continue to live with them, yes.

COLLINS: So, that should be something we talked about with the budget?

ZINKE: You know, I do. I think --

COLLINS: OK.

ZINKE: -- there's a difference --

COLLINS: That's amusing.

ZINKE: -- between the debt -- you know, the debt is what we spent. So, we owe that. We just don't want -- we don't want to be continuously overspending. So, and then this afford, how are we going to spend the money? What's the priority? Ukraine isn't -- is another, it's not a blank check. So, I've always advocated for, you know, John F. Kennedy, we will pay any price, bear any burden to protect the survival of liberty. But a blank check is extraordinarily dangerous. When we give arms and ammunition to a country that we don't know exactly where those arm and ammunition or what they're doing, what they're for, what their end goals are? And what is our plan in Ukraine? That disturbs me.

COLLINS: Well, the White House would argue they do know where the money is going when it comes to weapons and whatnot. But I want to move on to what happened in the House chamber last night. The heckling of President Biden from some of your Republican colleagues who disagreed with him. Did you think that was appropriate?

ZINKE: You know, I was -- I was born and raised and try to be a gentleman, and he is my president. I don't disagree with the statement. I disagree with the tone. I think when you invite someone over to your house, you're generally cordial. And he took some liberties, I think on truth, but by the same token is, he is the President of the United States. So, I've always advocated, be a gentleman. We can agree and we can disagree. But let's not be disagreeable because we are one country.

COLLINS: This is your second time on the program. I covered you when I was covering the White House under former President Trump. I didn't get a chance to ask you about you -- ask you about this last time, but I do want to give you a chance to respond this time. Because government watchdog said that when you were Interior Secretary, that you misused your position, lied to investigators about your involvement in a Montana land deal, and that you broke federal ethics rules. Do -- what is your response to that? And would you do anything different if you're back in that position? (INAUDIBLE)

ZINKE: You know, what I -- what I discovered, D.C. is a pretty tough town. And look, I went through multiple investigations, and they all concluded the same thing, no wrongdoing, no violation of regulations, no violation of rules. But look, if you're going to press the city and make change, there's a lot of people that are just comfortable with the status quo. Don't try to change. And my job was to change interior, and we did. We went from -- on the energy picture, we went from 8.3 million barrels a day to 12.5 million barrels a day production. We were the world's largest producer of energy across the board. And it made a difference because gas is about two bucks a gallon. But when you try to make change, you know, in the military, when you're over the target, you're going to get flack.

COLLINS: So, no regrets from how you handled that?

[08:24:56]

ZINKE: You know, in some cases, I wish I would have been a little more aggressive. Because the amount of change that needs to happen, you know, in this town is a lot. But again, if you're the target, you're going to get flack. The investigations were politically motivated and driven. We've seen some weaponization of some of our law enforcement, which is troubling. And look, our law enforcement needs to be blind party, needs to be the same for everybody. And that's the promise of this great capital, this great land. So, I understand the politics behind it. But, you know, moving forward, is -- look, I'm going to do my job. This year is going to be challenging, we have a lot of problems, border being one of them. Let's secure the border. Let's make sure we have --

COLLINS: Yes.

ZINKE: -- a budget that makes sense for us all.

COLLINS: Well, I just thought it was important to get your response on that on the record. So, Congressman Zenki, thank you for weighing in on that, and for the President's comments last night. Appreciate your time.

ZINKE: Appreciate it.

COLLINS: Thank you. All right, LeBron James is now the king of all- time scoring, more than Kareem, more than Jordan, more than Kobe. But does this mean LeBron James is the GOAT? We have an investigation, next.

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