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White House Official Explains Mysterious Objects Shot Out Of Sky; GOP Sen. Mike Rounds (R-SD) On Funding Medicare And Social Security; Former Astronaut Scott Kelly Spars With Elon Musk Over Starlink And Ukraine. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired February 14, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: So we're learning some new details about the objects that were shot down by U.S. fighter jets over the weekend. That's according to a Pentagon memo obtained by CNN.

The object shot down over Alaska was metallic and the size of a small car. The object shot down over Canada was a small metallic balloon. It crossed near sensitive sites in the U.S. before it was shot down. And the object shot down over Lake Huron on Sunday slowly descended into the water after impact.

Now, the objects were flying at altitudes between 20,000 to 40,000 feet. The military decided to shoot them down because at those altitudes they could pose a threat to civilian aircraft, which would be really, really serious.

Joining us now, White House National Security Council coordinator for Strategic Communications, and that's John Kirby. John Kirby, thank you for joining us this morning -- appreciate it.

JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: You bet. Happy to be here.

LEMON: Since we last officially heard from you, any briefing or any update that we should know?

KIRBY: Nothing that I can say operationally, Don. We still have not located the debris from the three objects shot down over the weekend, although there are intensive recovery operations underway to try to find -- locate that, and then once it's been located to try to recover that. But nothing to report.

Now, on the spy balloon that was shot down a week or so ago, divers were able to get into the water over the course of the weekend and we're able to recover a significant amount of debris, including some of the structure and some of the electronics. So all that's been shipped off now with our FBI partners. We're going to try to analyze that and see what we can learn.

LEMON: It almost seems like this is something that is novel and new to the United States and I know it is not. So should it take the U.S. military this long to recover these objects, especially if the U.S. was the one who shot them down, John?

KIRBY: You know, when you -- when you do something like this Don, you want to do it over areas where you're not going to hurt people on the ground, which means it's going to be over remote areas as best you can. And then just getting to those remote areas can be difficult, Don, particularly if you throw in not only the latitude at which these things are located -- at least the first two -- but the weather conditions right now. It's February and up there near the Arctic the weather conditions are just not real permissive for search and recovery operations.

LEMON: I know this is fascinating to folks just watching at home. You said that everyone's wondering well, what's going on? Why so many? Is this new?

You said if you're looking for more -- and I'm paraphrasing here -- you're likely to find them. Is that -- is that what you believe? Is that what -- is that what our intelligence folks believe?

KIRBY: We think, in part, Don that this could explain why you've seen so many incidents in a short period of time just over the last few days.

They -- we adjusted -- the NORAD staff adjusted the parameters for the radar systems -- the sensitivities -- to look for things that were low -- I'm sorry, slow, high, and small -- small radar cross-section -- in the wake of the Chinese spy balloon. And so when you're doing that you're -- when you adjust your sensitivities on the radar you're likely to see more of those kinds of contacts. We think that that's, in part, why there have been these most recent incidents.

LEMON: CNN also has learned that the first missile that was launched by the F-16 at that object over Lake Huron did not hit the target. Do you know where that missile is? And does it concern you that missiles are missing targets that -- over American people? Over the -- you know, over the United States?

KIRBY: I can't confirm the reporting that a missile was fired and missed.

I would add a couple of thoughts here. One, again, these were very small radar cross-section targets and so it's not inconceivable to me as a former military man to believe that one might have missed just because of the size of the target. And there are safety mechanisms in place that pilots use. I don't think the American people or the Canadian people need to be worried about the possibility that one of those missed.

LEMON: But that is our reporting that it did not hit its target, and this is happening over American airspace.

If the standard operation procedure going forward is to shoot these objects down to keep civilian aircraft safe in the sky can you guarantee Americans on the ground that Americans on the ground will also stay safe as well, John?

KIRBY: Yes, I can, Don.

LEMON: As simple as that even though you said you don't know if it was -- where that missile is --

KIRBY: There are --

LEMON: -- and you can't confirm, but that is our reporting.

KIRBY: Yes. Again, I can't confirm your reporting.

There are safety protocols with all these kinds of engagements. The whole purpose of these missions were to keep Americans safe. That's what was behind the president's decision from the very, very beginning -- make sure that we are keeping the skies safe for civilian air traffic.

These three objects were at altitudes that could potentially pose a risk to commercial air traffic and also they posed a potential surveillance risk to sensitive sites on the ground. It's all about the safety and security of the American people. That always comes first with the president. That was behind these decisions and that won't change.

LEMON: John Kirby, we appreciate you joining us from the White House this morning. Thank you very much, sir.

KIRBY: My pleasure.

[07:35:00]

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: And now we go from the White House to Capitol Hill because in just a few hours senators are going to get a classified briefing on those objects that have been shot down in recent days.

Among them is Republican Sen. Mike Rounds of South Dakota who serves on both the Intelligence and Armed Services committees. Good morning, Senator, and thank you for joining us on this.

I want to get to your questions on that briefing in a moment but first I'd like to get your reaction to the breaking news that Nikki Haley is entering the fold for the 2024 Republican nomination for president. What do you think?

SEN. MIKE ROUNDS (R-SD): Former governors can do a great job as president. Ronald Reagan was a former governor. I think Nikki is very, very capable as well.

COLLINS: Would you support Nikki Haley over former President Trump?

ROUNDS: Well, I would just simply say that I think we're going to have other people entering the race as well. I'm looking forward to Tim Scott also taking a look at it. I'm hoping that he will also announce. I think there will be a number of individuals that the American public will be able to choose from, and based upon that I think we've got a real good opportunity of taking back the White House. I'm looking forward to that race as well.

But in the meantime, we're also concerned about the Senate races coming up and we look forward to actually winning back the United States Senate as well.

COLLINS: Yes, we'll get to those races, of course, as well with you. But first I'd like to get back to this briefing that you're going to be doing behind closed doors in just a few hours from now.

We just heard from John Kirby -- what he told Don about the information that they have. But are you satisfied with what you've heard from the administration so far?

ROUNDS: You know, all of us want to get the information as quickly as we can. What I do appreciate that the admiral is doing is he's being very careful to provide information that he can back up, and so I appreciate that.

I would love to get more information more quickly. I'd really like to find the information or at least the data that they've got on the items that they've already recovered. I know they're going through that. I think we'll find out more once we recover some more of the debris.

So at this stage of the game, I think we've all got a pretty good understanding of what it may be but we don't know the details. And so if they want to stick to the program of we've taken them out and we know where they're at and we're going to give you the details as soon as we get them, then I'm prepared to accept that because that's the best data we can get.

But in the meantime, look, we're still concerned about the fact that it took a while to actually be able to change the rays on the radar. That suggests --

COLLINS: Yes.

ROUNDS: -- that we've got some weaknesses though that we're going to go to work. And I think when the military says that they need to make improvements in radar and that they need some additional capabilities that's something that we as Congress do something about. And it means improving and upgrading the radar systems we've got and allowing for them to not only pick up the high-traveling or the fast-traveling items but the slow-traveling items as well --

COLLINS: And --

ROUNDS: -- even if they're small and maybe we've missed them in the past.

COLLINS: Senator, you said you think you have a pretty good idea of what they may be. What is that?

ROUNDS: Well, I think -- look, the bottom line is that we know that the first one was a balloon, and I think now they've indicated the second one was also some sort of a balloon or a metal -- metallic type of substance. That's what's been reported. And I think that's consistent with what it appears to be.

I'm not going to get into the details of what they've given us already but I think once they get this debris I think they're going to be able to come back and share a little bit more about it.

What we do know is that they've been traveling at really low speeds and that suggests that this is something that they may have been doing for a while and they're using it to collect data on us.

COLLINS: Yes, and the U.S. is shooting them down with fighter jets and with missiles. We've actually learned that the first missile that they launched at the one that was near Lake Huron in Michigan -- that missile actually missed and they had to fire a second one that took down that object.

Do you have concerns about the U.S. using fighter jets and missiles to shoot down objects over U.S. airspace?

ROUNDS: I think we should always have concerns any time that we have to engage using our military equipment to take down items that are out there. I do think it's appropriate that right now with as much attention as being -- as is being provided that we do take a strong approach to this and that when we find out about them that we do take them out.

I also suspect that they have gone through great lengths to make sure that when they do make one of those attacks on one of these items that they take precautions to protect the American people as well. I believe that.

And I also think that there are safeguards put into place so that if they do have a miss -- and look, these missiles are designed for taking out a little bit larger piece of equipment with a little bit more metal on it probably and a little bit more of a heat signature and so forth. So the fact that one had missed, I think that's something they had hoped they would not do but most certainly it's something I think that they knew was a possibility.

COLLINS: OK.

And Senator, I want to ask you about something that you said here on CNN on Sunday about Social Security to my colleague Jake Tapper. You said, "I kind of look at Social Security the way I'd look at the Department of Defense and our defense spending. We're never not going to not fund defense. But at the same time we, every single year, look at how we can make it better."

Are you suggesting that Social Security should be funded on a year-by- year basis?

ROUNDS: Not so much that we fund it on a year-by-year basis but that we try to make improvements on a year-to-year basis.

[07:40:00]

And look, the reality is we've got an ongoing funding source right now for Social Security. But when you put it on the back burner and you don't look at it and you don't try to make improvements in it, and you simply say oh, we did it once and we don't have to look at it again, that's when things start to get out of hand.

And look, the bottom line, Republicans and Democrats alike I think would agree that we've got about 11 years until Social Security -- to the point where they can't pay all the benefits that the people have earned. That they have worked hard for and that they have committed to.

So I think part of our job is just to manage that and to get in and to make sure that long-term, people can always count on Social Security being there. And if you're not prepared to actually manage it then I think you risk the possibility of not paying attention to it and things get out of hand, and that's what we don't want.

And I -- and I think we're wrong when we -- when we tell people we shouldn't talk about it. It's kind of like if you talk about it somebody's going to accuse you of trying to destroy it, and that's not the case. We --

COLLINS: What --

ROUNDS: -- were sent here to try to make it better and to make sure that it stays there for a long period of time.

COLLINS: And what specifically do you mean by improvements because that is going to be something that people are going to be curious about -- what exactly Republicans would like to see done differently?

ROUNDS: I've -- I would share with you first of all, we know that if we don't do anything that we're going to see benefits that right now could be decreased by 24 percent in the -- in about 11 years. And if we know that now based on the actuarial determinations that have already been made then shouldn't we be talking about now what we're going to do improve in that?

And we think that there are proposals out there that can protect the benefits for those individuals that are retired now and those that are coming up, but that we can also take a look at new funding capabilities. New ways of managing the process itself -- Social Security itself to where we might even be able to make it so that it can last more than 75 years without making major changes again.

And I just think that that's something that we should, as responsible people, be talking about. Let's make sure that the American people can always count on it and that they're not being threatened and that they don't look down the line and say gee, if they don't do something in the next couple of years I may be -- I may see a reduction in my benefits. That is what we're trying to avoid.

And you can't -- you can't do that if you're not prepared to stand side-by-side, Republicans and Democrats alike, and say let's see what we can do to fix the issues that are there, make it better, and give some stability to Social Security long-term.

COLLINS: All right, Sen. Mike Rounds, three very important topics. Thank you for joining us this morning.

ROUNDS: Thank you.

COLLINS: And ahead we're going to hear from Congressman Nancy Mace. She's going to join us live to talk more about the administration's handling of those unidentified objects being shot out of the sky. And the new plans from Nikki Haley to run in 2024. We also have Jeff Zeleny and Scott Jennings standing by to discuss.

LEMON: Yes, that is a lot. Up next the troubling CDC survey on teen girls and suicide risks. We're going to discuss that and the upcoming hearing aimed at keeping your kids safe online when Brianna Keilar joins us live. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:47:13]

LEMON: Teens in the United States are experiencing record-high levels of violence and suicide risk in recent years but new data from the CDC shows girls fared much worse than boys. Grieving families visit Capitol Hill for a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing this morning on teen suicide and how social media is harming youth.

CNN's Brianna Keilar reports now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KRISTEN BRIDE, LOST SON TO SUICIDE DUE TO CYBERBULLYING: His absence has left a hole in our hearts forever.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Kristen Bride is one of a growing number of parents who have lost a child to cyberbullying. Her 16-year-old son Carson died by suicide in 2020 after he was harassed on a Snapchat-integrated app that allowed users to send anonymous messages.

BRIDE: I woke up to the horror that he had hung himself in our garage while we slept. And there are no words to describe the tragedy of that morning and every day afterwards.

KEILAR (voice-over): Kristin channeled some of her grief into activism, spearheading the passage of Carson's Law in her home state of Oregon. It requires school districts to notify parents or guardians of incidents like cyberbullying and harassment.

BRIDE: I think that there really is a level of helplessness, especially from parents who are trying to keep their kids safe online.

KEILAR (voice-over): She's trying to change that, testifying before Congress today, one week after President Biden's call to action during his State of the Union address.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We must finally hold social media companies accountable for experimenting they're doing running children for profit. KEILAR (voice-over): The ubiquity of social media in kids' lives and the vehicle it provides for cyberbullying are also getting renewed attention as the CDC unveils a new report. It shows significant declines in youth mental health and increased suicide risk in 2021, especially among girls.

KATHLEEN ETHIER, DIRECTOR, CDC'S DIVISION OF ADOLESCENT AND SCHOOL HEALTH: The levels of poor mental health and suicidal thoughts and behaviors reported by teenage girls are now higher than we have ever seen.

KEILAR (voice-over): And as the story of Adrianna Kuch, a 14-year-old student in New Jersey who was attacked by four other teenagers in her school's hallway, has stunned the nation. Video of her attack was posted to TikTok. Her father said she died by suicide the following evening.

MICHAEL KUCH, FATHER OF ADRIANNA KUCH: Getting hit in the face with a water bottle didn't hurt Adrianna. What hurt Adrianna was the embarrassment and humiliation. They just kept coming at her.

KEILAR (voice-over): Facebook's internal research revealed how Instagram, its photo and video-sharing social media service, can damage young users' mental health and body image --

FRANCES HAUGEN, FACEBOOK WHISTLEBLOWER: I came forward at great personal risk.

KEILAR (voice-over): -- prompting whistleblower Frances Haugen to go public and testify before Congress in 2021.

HAUGEN: Kids who are bullied on Instagram -- the bullying follows them home. It follows them into their bedrooms. The last thing they see before they go to bed at night is someone being cruel to them.

[07:50:07]

KEILAR (voice-over): At the time, a Facebook spokesperson disputed Haugen's testimony but said the company agreed it was time to create standard rules for the internet.

MARK ZUCKERBERG, CEO, FACEBOOK: We've removed content that could lead to imminent real-world harm.

KEILAR (voice-over): Kristin Bride says she'll urge lawmakers to step in and take on social media giants in a meaningful way.

BRIDE: I really want the committee to see the space -- the personal tragedy that is a result of these social media companies being completely unregulated. We need help from the federal government and we need it now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: And we see the vulnerabilities in the numbers of this new CDC report. One in three teenage girls saying they've considered attempting suicide. One in five gay or bisexual teens saying they attempted in the year before they were surveyed.

They are really at a crisis point, Don, as they navigate a sometimes perilous online world that we never had to deal with when we were kids.

And I do want to flag we're putting up the suicide and crisis hotline number 9-8-8 as we're talking about these very important and sensitive issues.

LEMON: That is a very important number -- 9-8-8 -- and an important report.

Brianna Keilar, thank you so much. Good to see you. Thank you.

Up next, why Elon Musk is reversing course and restricting Ukraine's access to satellite internet service. A former NASA astronaut, Scott Kelly, has been in an online back-and-forth with Musk. We're going to discuss that and much, much more coming up in just moments.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:55:40]

LEMON: All right, let's get right to it. Elon Musk says that he has restricted Ukraine's access to Starlink satellite internet because he is trying to prevent another world war. I'm not putting words in his mouth. This is what he tweeted. He said, "We will not enable escalation of conflict that may lead to World War 3." Again, that's a quote from Elon Musk.

He was responding to former NASA astronaut Scott Kelly urging Starlink to restore full functionality to the satellites after they were restricted.

Kelly tweeted, and I quote here, "Defense from a genocidal invasion is not an offensive capability. It's survival. Innocent lives will be lost. You can help."

Well, Scott Kelly joins us now. Good morning, sir. Thank you very much.

Why is it so important for Ukraine to have satellite internet access?

CAPT. SCOTT KELLY, U.S. NAVY (RET.) FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT, AUTHOR, "READY FOR LAUNCH" (via Skype): Well, this is a capability they've had for a while. They've been using it for months and to shut it off at this critical time or to throttle it to reduce its effectiveness I just felt was wrong.

I do not think it's escalatory. I do not think it's an offensive capability. When you are defending yourself you're going to do it with whatever means you have. And it was just shocking to me that at this moment that's at a very critical time he decided to do this.

LEMON: Is there any part of you that understands the position that he's in? He tweeted at you that we're trying hard to do the right thing where the right thing is extremely difficult -- an extremely difficult moral question.

What is the difficult moral question here? What is he talking about?

KELLY: Well, first of all, I have a lot of respect for Elon as an engineer, technologist, and certainly a visionary. I mean, he may go down as the Thomas Edison of our time. And I -- and I do respect him.

But I think what is escalatory is allowing Putin to win this war in Ukraine. And when you are defending yourself from genocide, defending your people, your infrastructure, to me, precision strike capability is not a -- is not an offensive measure.

You know, I guess I get his point if he thinks that this -- using this capability could lead to World War 3. But in my experience and being a close student and studier of Russia, spending a lot of time there understanding a lot about I think Putin and his motivation, he's not going to back down. And I think we need to defeat him on the battlefield as quickly as possible or that's where the escalation is going to occur.

LEMON: There is sort of a two-part question here --

KELLY: Yes.

LEMON: -- and I'm wondering -- listen, when I was growing up and I'm sure when you were growing up anything that had to do with space, it would seem that it was NASA, right, and it was government regulated. And now you have these rich guys and these companies that are having to make these sort of decisions -- are in control of these decisions.

Why is it the case that Ukraine is relying on Elon Musk's goodwill for something as important as their internet connection? Is that something that the U.S. or maybe NATO should be providing or could provide?

KELLY: You know, I think Elon, like I said -- you know, he's a brilliant guy. I think he figured out there was need there to provide internet connectivity throughout the world. He felt that there was a business case to do it. I think U.S. government law allowed him to do it.

But now I think we're learning that maybe this should be a capability that the U.S. government or NATO has control over to allow countries that are attacked in this illegal, immoral, genocidal way to defend themselves.

And I wish he would -- I really do wish he could reconsider this because again, to me the biggest point is when you are -- I mean, this is on Ukrainian territory. It's not like he's using this capability to attack Russia. He is -- the Ukrainians are using it to defend themselves from tanks, troops, artillery. There -- that -- to me that is not escalatory whatsoever.

LEMON: Yes.

Well, Scott Kelly, we're so happy that you could join us this morning to talk about these things. I wanted to get to the spy balloons but we're going to get to -- we've got to get to the top of the hour. That's something we'd love to have you back on to discuss. Thank you, Scott Kelly.

KELLY: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Thank you.

CNN THIS MORNING continues right now.

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