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Killer Previously Charged With Felony, Still Able To Buy Guns; Soon: Fulton Co. To Release Parts OF Grand Jury Report On Trump Probe; Trump Special Counsel Subpoenas Mark Meadows'Residents of East Palestine, Ohio, Demand Water and Soil Testing to Verify Safety after Railroad Chemical Spill; Sen. Chris Murphy (D-CT) Interviewed on Attempting to Pass Gun Control Legislation after Shooting at Michigan State University. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired February 16, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Powerful words there as the railroad company Norfolk Southern has pulled out of last night's meeting. They were supposed to be there. They didn't go, they said, because of physical threats against their employees. In a statement, the company, though, says they are vowing to get the job done, saying, quote, "Our people will remain in East Palestine, respond to the situation and meet with residents. We are not going anywhere."

CNN's Jason Carroll was at last night's meet being. You saw him there speaking to residents. Jason, you can understand why people are frustrated here. They want answers. These are people who have been living in East Palestine, in this area for so long, and now they have major questions about how long they can continue to live there.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Kaitlan, you are absolutely right. And some of the questions that they have, who is going to be here a year from now? Who is going to be here two years from now, five years from now? Is someone going to be monitoring their health years from now? Who is going to be responsible for that? What about the cost of their homes, depreciation in home values? A lot of questions that these residents had last night. And quite frankly, a lot of them felt as though they didn't get their questions answered. They feel like it is going to take more than one townhall.

One of the representatives that they really wanted to be there was Norfolk Southern railroad. And as you said, they bailed out at the 11th hour simply because they felt as though their employees would not be safe. And Kaitlan, I have to tell you, the people that I spoke to really felt like that was adding insult to injury. Listen to what some had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY FELGER, EAST PALESTINE RESIDENT: OK, well, if you are afraid that somebody from Palestine is going to hurt your employees, what exactly did you do to us?

CARROLL: Do you feel the anger and frustration?

EAST PALESTINE RESIDENT: I'm scared for my family. I'm scared for my town. I grew up here. I am related to 50 percent of them.

CARROLL: Do you trust them when they say that the air has been tested and safe and that the municipal water is safe?

EAST PALESTINE RESIDENT: I don't trust them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: So the cleanup effort is underway here. And Kaitlan, I want to show you some of what is happening here. This is along an area called Leslie Run. This runs throughout East Palestine. Down here along this creek here you can see what they are doing is they are aerating the water here. They're pumping more oxygen into this waterway with the hope that it will break down some of the chemicals.

And I want to show you some of these tankers over in this direction. So what we are told is some of these tankers could end up containing some of that contaminated soil that they are going to be digging out and carrying out from the site of the derailment, bringing it here and then taking it to another location. So the cleanup effort out here continuing, and a lot of people out here feel as though, they are wondering how long is this effort going to take? Again, who is going to be responsible years from now? A lot of still unanswered questions, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Yes. The company saying that their employees were scared to go, but these residents are just as scared. They don't know how long that cleanup that you're seeing there is going to take. Jason Carroll, that's a fantastic report. Thank you.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: And let's talk to one of them now, because joining me, East Palestine resident Jami Cozza, who lives near the train derailment. She and her daughter were forced to flee their home, which is just steps away from the creek. She attended the town hall last night. This is what she said at the town hall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMI COZZA, EAST PALESTINE RESIDENT: The railroad called me tonight and it wasn't safe to go home, that they would pay for my rent and all my moving expenses. They did it because I insisted on having water and soil samples taken at my house because my front door is seven steps from that creek. My question is, why doesn't everyone else deserve that same testing?

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Jami, thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate you being here. After two full weeks since the derailment you are not in your home. The frustration is clear. How are you guys doing?

JAMI COZZA, EAST PALESTINE RESIDENT: We're holding up. We're still at the hotel here. Luckily here in West Virginia at the Holiday Inn they are treating us really good. But the baby is getting a little tired. She is three. She keeps saying she wants to go home, crying, is our house broken? How am I going to get my toys? All the natural stressors of a three-year-old.

LEMON: The frustration is you don't know. There are just so many unanswered questions, right. And you have officials saying, well, it's safe to go back, it's safe to go back. I am not sure, with the governor saying I wouldn't drink the water.

[08:05:00]

But how do you explain to people what that is like, because you want to be back in your homes, but you can't, so what do you do?

COZZA: It's not just our homes. I feel like I can't be back in my town. And that's what -- someone just messaged me on Facebook and said I'm stuck in my home because I have a mortgage. People are feeling like they are forced back because they don't have money to go anywhere else. And she shared with me, where would I go? I said, we're not sure where we're going to go. My family has been in that area for generations. It's home. I don't know where else to go. What I do know is I can't go back there.

LEMON: What is it going to take, Jami, to make you feel safe at this point? Is there anything?

COZZA: I think at this point that there is. They did tell me yesterday the railroad offered to pay all of my moving expenses. My house is not safe to be in. The only reason why I know that is because when they came to do air testing, I was demanding to know about the soil and the water that's seven steps from my porch. So the railroad sent out a toxicologist, who deemed my house not safe. But had I not used my voice, had I not thrown a fit, I would be sitting in that house right now when they told me that it was safe.

And my concern is, how many of those kids are laying in their bed in East Palestine right now that are not safe, who is not afforded the same special attention that I got from the railroad? They told me that it was safe to go home. Had I gone home, would I be here right now to talk to you?

I absolutely do not trust them. The first thing I did was reach out to a friend of mine at the non-profit River Valley organizing, that we are having a meeting next week. We are bringing in scientists from the University of Kentucky and Pittsburgh. They will be offering free soil and water samples to anyone in our town. That's what needs to happen now. We, as a community, have to fight this or no one else is.

LEMON: Listen, all of this has taken you more than outside of your routine. There are things you have to do now that you didn't have to do before because you were comfortable play in your home. This costs money. Who is paying for all this, the hotel, et cetera?

COZZA: The railroad has been paying for the hotel since day one. The issue with that is the closest hotel we could find is about a 60-mile round trip. We are a very rural area. We were being told we had to come back to East Palestine each day to turn in the receipts so that we could afford the next night in the hotel. They since then have moved that assistance center outside of town. Saturday we waited six hours to get our reimbursement. So the railroad is dealing with that part of it.

But to me there is a bigger issue. It's not about the money. It's about our health. They can give me as much money as they want. It wouldn't have brought my daughter back to life had I taken her into that house when they said it was OK.

LEMON: Jami Cozza, be well. We thank you for joining us. Keep us updated.

COZZA: Could I say just one more quick thing?

LEMON: Absolutely.

COZZA: That community meeting on the 23rd at 6:00, it will be at Studio 25, which is at 25 North Market. If you want independent -- please come to that meeting and we are going to get you the testing you deserve.

LEMON: Thank you, Jami.

COZZA: Thank you.

LEMON: Poppy?

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: What an important conversation. Don, thank you for that.

An emotional vigil last night on Michigan State University's campus where hundreds of students, faculty, staff, people from all over that community came with flowers to honor the victims. Arielle Anderson, Alexandria Verner, Brian Fraser, the three students killed in Monday's attack. Governor Gretchen Whitmer, also an MSU alum, called for change in gun laws.

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER, (D) MICHIGAN: We shouldn't have to live like this. We shouldn't have to subconsciously scan every room for an exit, go through the grim exercise of figuring out who our last call would be to. Our campuses, churches, classrooms and communities should not be battlefields. And so it's OK if you feel frustrated or angry or sad, because we are the only country in the world where guns are the number one killer of young people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: We have also learned that the killer was previously charged with a felony but pleaded out to a misdemeanor and, therefore, was still able to buy new guns.

[08:10:02]

With me now, Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. He has made gun safety legislation his life's work since the tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary. Today he is reintroducing legislation to expand federal background checks to all gun sales. Good morning, Senator, and thank you.

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY, (D-CT): Good morning.

HARLOW: Let's show people this picture. Last year you went to MSU. You spoke to students, and you have tweeted about gun tragedy after gun tragedy after gun tragedy. Look at Michigan, right, Kalamazoo, Oxford, now MSU. Could you speak about what you are reintroducing again, the background check expansion act, and if you think, could it have saved these three students' lives?

MURPHY: I was proud to be at Michigan State last year. Part of my work is trying to help build a national anti-gun violence movement that will make our kids safer. And I was there in part to thank a small group of Michigan State students that were starting a chapter of an anti-gun violence organization.

But it also pains me that children have to spend their time trying to convince adults to just do the right thing. The fact that my 14-year- old has to talk to his friends about how they can organization to make sure that their schools are safe, it just says that there is something deeply wrong about this country.

What we are introducing today is a measure that is wildly popular in this country. It's a requirement that every commercial sale have a background check attached to it. If you want to buy a gun, you should have to prove that you are not a criminal, that you're not seriously mentally ill. The problem is many states have chosen not to apply background checks to Internet sales and sales at gun shows. That means that criminals know how to buy guns without being detected as a criminal.

So all of the crime guns that get used in places like New York and Connecticut, the majority of crime guns, are bought in states that don't apply universal background checks. So the quickest way to make our country safer, the quickest way to stop a lot of this gun crime in our cities is to have a universal background checks requirement. That's what we're reintroducing today. It's supported by 90 percent of the American public.

HARLOW: And you say reintroducing because you've introduced this multiple times before, including when Democrats had control of both chambers of Congress. And I know you have got Republican Congressman Brian Fitzpatrick on your side, right, introducing the companion legislation. I just wonder if you couldn't get it through then when Democrats had more control, how do you get it through now?

MURPHY: I think it's a good point. Right now, we just don't have Republicans at the numbers we need to pass something like this, which is wild. I mean, 90 percent of Americans think everybody should get a background check before they buy a gun. Why aren't Republicans supporting this? There is just a legacy of NRA power, of gun lobby power that is being eroded, but it's not completely gone.

Your question is are things changing, and they just are. Last year we passed the most significant gun safety bill in 30 years, really the first comprehensive gun safety bill in 30 years. It did expand background checks. People said that that couldn't be done. A whole bunch of Republicans voted for that measure that just, frankly, six months earlier had opposed many of the things in that bill.

The politics on this are changing really fast. A lot of Republicans are changing their minds because they actually realize that the gun lobby isn't as powerful as it used to be. So, yes, this looks like an uphill battle, especially with a Republican House. But a lot of people said that we weren't going to be able to pass the bill we passed last year where red flag laws and bans on guns to domestic abusers, but we did because the issue is moving pretty fast.

HARLOW: Which I should note, encouraging states to adopt red flag laws, one that Michigan does not have.

Before we move to China, Senator, the shooter, Anthony McRae was able to buy these two guns after he pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor firearms charge. That was pleaded down, right. He was charged with a felony, but because it was a misdemeanor, he was able to buy the guns even though the A.G.'s office in Michigan says no, he shouldn't have been able to. I wonder if you believe that even though a misdemeanor firearms conviction does not prevent someone from buying a gun federally, only a felony does, if that should change, if you should reexamine if a misdemeanor firearms charge should prevent people from buying guns?

MURPHY: So I don't think every misdemeanor charge should -- or conviction should ban you permanently from buying firearms. But I think there are certain misdemeanor charges that should. I'll give you a quick example of actually how we found consensus on that last year. Prior to the law we passed last year, if you were convicted of a misdemeanor domestic violence charge, you could still possess guns. But what we realized is just like with this shooter, what normally happens with domestic violence is that a really heinous act is committed, but in order to avoid a trial the individual pleads down to a misdemeanor domestic violence charge, even though they beat the heck out of their wife or their spouse.

[08:15:00]

HARLOW: Right.

MURPHY: So, we fixed that. And now, if you're convicted of a misdemeanor domestic violence charge, you can't buy a gun and Republicans supported that. I think we should take a look at that when it comes to this gun possession -- illegal gun possession charges. I'm not completely familiar with all the variety of misdemeanor charges.

HARLOW: Right.

MURPHY: But we certainly have precedent for applying the prohibition to misdemeanors.

HARLOW: That's interesting and something to look at. Let's move on to China because you sit on the Foreign Relations Committee. You guys had this briefing for senators yesterday about the threats broadly that the U.S. faces from China right now. I thought it was interesting that your Republican colleague in the Senate Josh Hawley, said the U.S. should be more forceful, right now given all of this and its relationship with China. And he talked about and suggested sanctions, and I wonder if you agree with them.

MURPHY: I worry that there are some members of Congress who are rooting for a conflict and war with China. We've always had hawks and warmongers in Washington that think the United States is better off if we're perpetually in conflict. Obviously, what happened is absolutely unacceptable, and there were repercussions, the visit by Secretary of State Blinken was canceled. But I also want to make sure that we don't sort of slip into conflict with China, a country with which we have $6 trillion worth of trade every year.

So, we need to continue to pursue a policy in which we are competing with China as an adversary. But we aren't making mistakes just because of something that shows up in the -- in the headlines, we have to have a thoughtful policy of manage competition with China. I think China is very embarrassed by this incident. I think there's evidence to suggest that it may not have been intentional, at least initially. And let's judge China by its actions as to how they move forward from this incident.

HARLOW: OK. Finally, I do want to ask you because you also said on the health education, labor and Pensions Committee, chaired by Senator Bernie Sanders. Your committee has written a letter asking Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz, to come testify on March 9th alleging, quote, a lack of compliance with federal labor laws. This is about how Starbucks deals with the unions, and Howard Schultz has now declined that request. Starbucks says he's leaving in April, and therefore they would like to send someone else to head of their public affairs office to testify. I wonder, what you make of that?

MURPHY: Well, I think they're just trying to avoid embarrassment. Starbucks has been really involved in a super-aggressive campaign to stop their workers from organizing. I've seen it firsthand in Connecticut, where workers are trying to organize in West Hartford and Willimantic, and their CEO should come and testify. He actually -- he's been overseeing and orchestrating this campaign, whether or not he's leaving, he's responsible for the conduct that we are trying to investigate.

The fact of the matter is these big corporations just have too much power in America and unions are a way that workers can get an even chance at the negotiating table with these giant mega-corporations. So, yes, Schultz should come and testify, he shouldn't be afraid of congress. Remember, once he wanted to be president in the United States, so, he has shown an interest in engaging in public policy, all of a sudden, he doesn't seem to want to talk to us when it's the -- I think, potentially illegal actions of his company that are under scrutiny.

HARLOW: Quickly, will you -- will your committee subpoena him? Is it that important for you to hear from him?

MURPHY: I don't know.

HARLOW: OK. Thank you, senator.

MURPHY: Yes. I don't know, I haven't talked to Senator Sanders about it yet.

HARLOW: All right. Well, thank you. Senator.

MURPHY: Thank you.

HARLOW: OK. Kaitlan.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Just so interesting to see, what he's tried to do before what he's trying to do now, but also probably acknowledging that reality about it getting through, congress will stay with that. Also, today, we're tracking a judge in Georgia who is about to release parts of a special grand jury report on Trump's actions after the 2020 election. What are we going to learn? What are we not going to learn? That's next.

[08:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: All right, any moment now, A Georgia judge is going to make public parts of a grand jury report on that investigation until election interference by former President Trump, and his allies in the States. But most of that is going to remain sealed and secret as a local prosecutor is considering charges. Joining us now to talk about what we could see is former U.S. Attorney from Georgia's Middle District, Michael Moore. Michael, good morning to you, and thank you, for being here. Just how unprecedented is it to get a report like this, even if we're not getting all of it?

MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, MIDDLE DISTRICT OF GEORGIA: Well, I'm glad to be with all of you. Thanks for having me on. We really are in unprecedented times, Georgia does not often use a special-purpose grand jury. And so, you don't -- these reports don't come out as a matter of course, anyway, we typically just have a regular criminal grand jury that makes a decision on whether or not there'll be an indictment issued. So, the judge is going through some unchartered waters, there's not a playbook to pull this fraud. There's not a form book that the district attorney's office could have written the report or help the grand jury write the report from.

So, it's an interesting, interesting time, but he's been fairly Solomonic in his decision about -- honoring the public's need to have some information about this investigation, at the same time, recognizing that the prosecutor needs to make their decision and that's in the potential defendants have due process rights, and he didn't want to get the cart ahead of the horse, and let everything out.

COLLINS: Yes, well, what about the idea that we're not going to see all of it --

MOORE: OK.

COLLINS: -- is they are still considering charges? You know, why not release all of it?

MOORE: Well, there could be reasons to keep grand jury information secret, and it is a secretive process. And if you think about it, if your name was mentioned in the grand jury, and you ultimately were not charged with a crime? You wouldn't want a report out there saying that you'd been discussed. And so, it protects uncharged people, it also protects investigations to not have the information out there. Potentially protects witnesses from intimidation or contact by the parties in a case to see if they could move their testimony one way or another.

So, the parts of the report that he's going to release are pretty benign. It sounds like he's going to talk generally about their introduction. He's going to allow the report to come out with redactions, about some concerns the grand jury may have had with people who were less than forthcoming during the case. But a -- but again, the ultimate charge is sort of the meat is not going to be with the potatoes yet, in this case.

[08:24:58]

COLLINS: I also, you know, one person who was involved in those efforts in Georgia was Mark Meadows, Trump's former chief of staff at the time, he went down and visited an election audit side he was on the phone with Raffensperger, when Trump was asking for more votes. I've also learned overnight that the Special Counsel who's got the grand jury investigating January 6, has subpoenaed Mark Meadows. And I wonder you -- what does that indicate to you? What does it signal to you that Jack Smith is now wanting to talk and get documents from Mark Meadows?

MOORE: You know, I really think that it tells us that his investigation may be coming to a head. He's subpoenaed, the Former Vice President, who has sort of taken the tact that he should be able to write about in his book, but not testify about in front of a grand jury, which I think is so hypocritical. But we're in a place now where he's talking about Mark Meadows, as the Chief of Staff, a former chief of staff. So, he needs Meadows to sort of tie everything together. I mean, if you can imagine trying to describe a football game, without talking about the quarterback.

Meadows was essentially the quarterback of the White House and for the Trump administration, his hands role in everything that happened. He was at immediate and in close contact with the former President. He dealt with the aides, he dealt with the Secret Service, he dealt with the staff at the White House. So, he is the sort of the top of the pyramid when it comes to the knowledge about what went on with Trump's planning.

COLLINS: Yes.

MOORE: And discussions that may have been around January the sixth.

COLLINS: If he tries to argue executive privilege to fight that subpoena. Does it have any merit in your view? MOORE: I think he probably ought to go raid the Nixon case, its Supreme Court addressed executive privilege in these types of circumstances. There's a need for executive privilege that is so he could have a deliberative process, but you aren't allowed to use it as a shield to had criminal conduct. And so, or potential criminal conduct and so, discussions and grand jury inquiries, that's a time when I think the executive privilege will hold for him. I think it's a way to run out the clock, it's a way to be combative in it. But at the end of the day, I don't have any doubt that he's going to end up testifying, how about exactly --

COLLINS: Wow.

MOORE: -- what went on in the White House.

COLLINS: That's pretty remarkable. Michael Moore, no one better to talk about all of this with, as we are waiting for parts of that report to come out. Thank you for joining us, this morning.

MOORE: It's glad to have (INAUDIBLE)

COLLINS: I love that were fellow southerners on the program.

MOORE: Well, it's fun to be with here. Thanks for having me out.

COLLINS: Thanks, Michael.

HARLOW: It's so interesting what he said in bringing up U.S. versus Nixon, and what the Supreme Court ultimately said, right? You're -- the shield only goes so far.

COLLINS: He said Meadows is going to end up testifying (INAUDIBLE).

HARLOW: OK, any minute now, the labor department will release the weekly jobless claims. We'll break it all down for you ahead. Also, this morning's number 373,000 What does it have to do with the job market? Harry Enten will explain next.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Harry.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:00]