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CEO of Norfolk Southern Railroad Apologizes to Citizens of East Palestine, Ohio, for Chemical Spill Resulting from Train Derailment; Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg Visits East Palestine, Ohio; Winter Storm Affects Larges Parts of U.S. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired February 23, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON, DIRECTOR, HAYDEN PLANETARIUM AT THE ROSE CENTER FOR EARTH AND SPACE: Because, because that's what discovery is.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: OK.

TYSON: Discovery is what you're doing when you don't know what you're doing. You're on the edge. And so, yes, it could be a hoax. Somebody put it in the ocean and had it wash up. Godzilla's egg, I love it. Don't poke it unless you are ready. So I would be delighted when we learn what it is. It's probably something prosaic, unfortunately. But people's imaginations just run wild, and that's fun. That makes great fiction and science fiction stories. But usually, it's something less interesting than your imagination.

LEMON: All right, I've got to run. I've got to run. Again, I am not proposing it. I am just saying what people are proposing. So don't get it twisted as has happened to me before.

TYSON: I want it to be Godzilla. That would be so fun. That would be great.

LEMON: Thank you.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Good to see you, all right? Be well and blessed, as they say, and have a great day. We'll see you here soon. Neil deGrasse Tyson.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: That was amazing.

LEMON: Yes, thank you. CNN THIS MORNING continues right now.

HARLOW: Good morning, everyone. It is --

(LAUGHTER)

HARLOW: We are laughing about the last segment. What is it? I don't know.

LEMON: Boy. He was great. I love him. HARLOW: We are so glad you are with us. It is 8:00 here in the east,

5:00 a.m. out west. Kaitlan is on assignment. Great interview coming up from here tomorrow. She will be back with us then.

LEMON: Some serious stuff to talk about, though, right.

HARLOW: Yes, we do, because an entire town still living in fear this morning weeks after a train hauling dangerous chemicals crashed and burned.

LEMON: So last night angry residents got the chance to confront the railroad CEO at a CNN town hall. I hope you watched because it was fascinating. So coming up, the apology he gave them. Also, we're going to talk to the environmental activist Erin Brockovich who is on the ground helping residents in East Palestine.

HARLOW: Also right now, a brutal coast-to-coast winter storm ramping up across the nation. More than 70 million Americans on alert this morning. We'll take you live to Minnesota and show you what is happening on the ground there.

Plus, this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is every reporter's absolutely worst nightmare. We go home at night afraid that something like this will occur.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: How awful. A TV reporter shot and killed, his photojournalist wounded, while they were reporting at a murder scene. What we're learning about the suspected gunman.

We will have all of that straight ahead for you on CNN THIS MORNING.

We are going to begin with the massive toxic train disaster in Ohio. Right now, the Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg is on the scene right there. You see pictures of him. This is him at the scene of that wreck where the train loaded with dangerous chemicals derailed and burst into an inferno. The government's response has been facing growing criticism. The railroad's CEO coming face to face with angry residents during a CNN town hall. They are living in fear. They don't know if it is safe to live in their very own homes anymore. Here is what they told the CEO last night, an apology he gave on national television as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Since we have come home my son has had bloody noses every day. I have had some skin issues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had the symptoms, sore throat, irritated nose, the headaches. I have been dizzy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We could have been warned, and thank God that there were no casualties, no loss of life, no loss of building.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm angry. I'm angry about this. I lived in East Palestine for 65 years now. That's my home. My grandmother came from Germany. She lived in Palestine. My dad grew up there. My family has grown up there now. It is disgusting that we are just lost it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am terribly sorry for what has happened to your community. I want you to know that Norfolk Southern is here and we are going to stay here, and we are going to make this right. We are going to get the environmental cleanup right. We are going to support the citizens of this community. We are going to invest in the long-term health of this community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So while people in East Palestine, Ohio, are afraid for their lives, politicians are quibbling over who is to blame, if there is enough of a response, who has gone, who hasn't gone, when they went. Former President Trump is criticizing President Biden's response. We'll get to that in a moment.

LEMON: Because we want to get to the ground and we want to show you that the transportation secretary is there, and that is Pete Buttigieg, and he is on the ground. And on the same day that this report from the National Transportation Safety Board is coming out he is supposed to meet with the Hazard Safety Administration there as well, meeting with officials on the ground. We have some live pictures.

[08:05:01]

And they are going to be -- he is going to get all of the questions, I would imagine, that these officials in our town hall got here on CNN last night. What happened? Why does this continue to happen? What safety precautions are you putting in place? Is it safe for us to live in our very own homes? Is it safe for us to drink our water? These are live pictures. And you see, Poppy, look at that.

HARLOW: That's part of the train.

LEMON: The wreckage still sitting there, and the wreckage of people's lives really is what that symbolizes at this moment.

HARLOW: You know, the residents of East Palestine that we had on earlier in the show are really worried about the soil and what's underneath the train and now the company says they will remove the tracks eventually and all the soil. But you can see why.

LEMON: I would like to listen in. Let's hear what they are saying, if we can.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- insulation, right.

(INAUDIBLE)

PETE BUTTIGIEG, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: So this car, actually, it's kind of hybrid. It's one of the older 111s that is equipped with a head shield.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was an upper 111.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even though it wasn't required. They was referred to as a 111-S. Not sure why the builder built that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know how much of the fleet is still 111, like how far along they are?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think, I was talking to some of my colleagues. I believe there is -- the industry would need 35,000 new 117s to be able to meet the phaseout. So I am not sure of the number of cars that are out there. But I have an understanding of how --

LEMON: So the Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, as you can see, getting information from the experts there on the ground. They are talking about the type of train cars, it's a hybrid, it's old, it's a 111-S. And so those are the types of technical things that they are going to be dealing with.

And the folks on the ground who live there, the people who live there, they're not concerned about the technicalities. They want to know what the heck happened and they want to know if they are going to be safe and if Norfolk Southern is going to rectify the situation that the people who are in charge of them and their wellbeing, if they are going to take care of them.

John Avlon joining us now. John, so the transportation secretary is there. There has been criticism about the president not going or what have you, but this is in need of what is happening. The politics sort of getting in the middle of all of this. So what do you make of the situation and all of this here?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, the petty politics, trying to divide people in the time of a natural disaster, industrial disaster like this, are small compared to the suffering that people who live on the ground. My family is from northeast Ohio. And so I know this area. And this area has been long suffering. And this adds insult to injury.

I do think it's great that Pete Buttigieg, the transportation secretary, is there. Probably shouldn't have taken three weeks for him to be there. He said some people just show up and it causes a distraction. That's true for a president perhaps. But it's not true for a transportation secretary. FEMA was there on day one. EPA administrator has been there two times. This is ultimately Norfolk Southern's responsibility to clean up. But it really requires a bipartisan effort. We are seeing some outlines of that, some of the enthusiasm of deregulating the train industry, particularly some of these trans that transport harsh chemicals, now there appears to be a bipartisan effort to revisit that. Maybe it's not about deregulation. It's more intelligent regulation. That's a step forward. But this is really going to require sustained solution and real attention and not the kind of petty partisan politics.

HARLOW: One of the things that I find striking and sort of appropriate to talk about as we see the transportation secretary on the ground, a guy from the Midwest in the Midwest, heading to the east coast, however you qualify Ohio in your book, but is this is exactly what the crux of Biden's economic focus has been. It has been on rebuilding the infrastructure of many communities.

AVLON: Yes.

HARLOW: Like this.

AVLON: Yes.

HARLOW: And so I just wonder what you think the Biden administration needs to do, whether it's the president going there or not, but what they actually have to do to maybe reregulate or more intelligently regulate things that present a danger like this.

AVLON: Let's take that in two tracks. You are exactly right. The core of Biden's economic policy is focusing on these areas that used to be known as the rust belt, the former manufacturing areas that had been proud and prosperous until a few decades ago, but have been in real hard times. Just because there is a division between Pennsylvania and Ohio right there on the Allegheny border, the communities are often very similar. So don't focus on the red state, blue state here.

It really is going to require, though, bipartisan coalitions to say we need to invest in these communities on a more sustainable basis. There's going to be a need to have environmental cleanup and regulation around this. And I think there is a hopeful sign that there are some Republican senators who are economic populists who are saying let's focus more on direct cash payments to families, something that would have been anathema under the old Republican Party.

[08:10:02]

Let's focus on investing in these communities. You saw Senator J.D. Vance, his book "Hillbilly Elegy" talked about the plight of a lot of these communities. And I don't want to a triumph of hope over experience here, but you would like to think there could be some common ground and the basis for bipartisan legislation to help these communities.

LEMON: So again, listen, you said the petty politics, because the former president is criticizing there are, not all conservatives, but there are conservatives who are criticizing the response from the transportation secretary and the president of the United States.

AVLON: Sure.

LEMON: But there are folks even in conservative media who are pushing back on even something you said about the transportation secretary not going because it's happened in previous administrations, even in the Trump administration and folks didn't go. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I completely reject the parallel that has been drawn between his going to Ukraine and not going, so far at least, to East Palestine. Let's remember this, Bret, about these issues. The federal government preeminently has a responsibility for our national defense. There is no private sector involvement in that except for the sense that they make weapons. There is no state and local government involved in that. It is the federal government's job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So basically, he is saying --

AVLON: Good for Brit Hume. Look, criticizing Biden for being overseas in Ukraine on the one-year anniversary and not being in Ohio was a total false equivalent. It's complete b.s. And you can do both and you should do both. And Biden should go to that community. But the preeminent responsibility is leading an international coalition to stop Russian aggression, and to try to undercut that under the auspices of America first and photo-ops at McDonald's passing out branded water isn't a sufficient response. They want to draw the contrast, but it's a false contrast. It's a false choice.

HARLOW: As you said, it's personal for you. Your family is from there.

AVLON: Yes.

HARLOW: And you bring great perspective, John. Thank you. Let's see if there is some action.

LEMON: Good to see you. Thanks for jumping in and talking to the live pictures because we just got the secretary on the ground.

AVLON: Of course. That's what we do.

HARLOW: Thank you.

LEMON: We're going to move on now and talk about what is happening coast to coast. Ainter storm is making travel a nightmare on the roads and in the skies. Blizzard and icy conditions have canceled at least 750 flights nationwide this morning, more than 1,700 flights were canceled on Wednesday. At least 60 million people remain under winter weather alerts across the United States, and more than 850,000 people have lost power across California, Illinois, and Michigan. In Utah, police have responded to at least 354 crashes in the past 24 hours.

HARLOW: Adrienne Broaddus joins us live in Bloomington, Minnesota. I am getting all these pictures from folks at home. Parents trying to work. Their kids are home from school. They thought it was going to be like 20 inches. What is it?

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, it depends what part of the state you are in, Poppy. I can tell you, it's about 16 degrees here in Bloomington, but it feels like two. And with the wind, when it hits your face, at least for me, it feels like a tiny needle. Over to the right you can see that crews have been working, because all this snow that has fallen has to go somewhere. Over there, there is a large mountain of snow. And once we get on the other side of this, that's something the kids, hopefully, people will send you pictures, that lead to joy, Poppy. We want to see some children playing when it's safe.

But when we were with you in the 6:00 hour, we had a nice, clear path. Now I can't even see where my footprints were. I am going back to the location where I think I was standing earlier. I was right by this yield sign. Initially it was at my calf. When I measured yesterday it was about 11 inches. And now, keep in mind, this is a snow snowdrift. I see 28 inches. So can you imagine if those snowdrifts are like this on the roadways? That's why members of law enforcement are asking people to stay off of the interstate and stay off of the roads. We have seen plows come through here, but as the snowfall, there is just a fresh blanket once again. Don and Poppy?

LEMON: Yes, and you know it's coming down when it's sticking to Adrienne's eyebrows and eyelashes.

HARLOW: You look great, girl.

LEMON: Thank you, Adrienne.

HARLOW: And you know who is going to figure it out right away.

BROADDUS: Thank you. I'm warm, too.

LEMON: Good.

HARLOW: The airport there is so amazing. They are going to be like up and running by tomorrow no doubt. No doubt.

Look at this split screen, OK? Sixteen degrees, as Adrienne said, in Minneapolis on the left of your screen. The right, that's Miami, 76 and sunny in south Florida. The northern Rockies and northern plains experiencing, though, record cold while the southeast is setting record highs for the month of February. There is about 100-degree temperature difference from the Rockies to the south. Wow. That forecast across cities in the south has been in the high 80s, and 96 degrees in McAllen, Texas.

[08:15:00]

LEMON: We appreciate all those lovely pictures from our affiliate WCCO and our affiliate W. SP and (INAUDIBLE)

HARLOW: There you go. Up next. The fallout over that derailed train in East Palestine continues. We'll talk to Erin Brockovich, she is there on the ground. She has been helping and speaking to the residents, talking about what their rights are in this mess. Also, this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Subject is currently loose in the cabin, loose in the cabin. And he has tried to breach this cockpit. He's being somewhat restrained by the flight crew and other passengers."

LEMON: Frightening and we all know why, it is just frightening. An American Airlines Flight forced to divert after an unruly passenger charge the cockpit. What happened in the sky last night?

HARLOW: Gosh. That's so scary.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: This morning, an American Airlines Flight was on its way to Washington D.C. last night it diverted to North Carolina because of an unruly passenger on board. Our Gabe Cohen joins us from Washington with more. Not just unruly, this is really scary.

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is scary, Poppy, and we're learning a lot more about what officials think happens. So, a source familiar with the investigation tells CNN that this 24-year-old woman, this unruly passenger was having what they believe was a panic attack. And the FAA says during the incident, she ran at the flight deck, she didn't breach it. But it created enough of a scene that they diverted that plane to Raleigh-Durham. And the FAA even issued an eight-minute ground stop at the airport for what they say were security reasons. Take a listen to the police scanner traffic on the ground as all of this unfolded.

[08:20:11]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Subject is currently loose in the cabin, loose in the cabin. And he has tried to breach in the cockpit. He's being somewhat restrained by the flight crew and other passengers. As soon as that lands we need to get in the plane and restrain this guy."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Long gun crew is going to be on the outside, end of the aircraft, they'll be standing by."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Central be advised, it's going to be one black female subject in custody."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: Now, Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, tweeted about the incident saying this was a level four disruption, which is an attempted or actual breach of the flight deck. But at this point, this woman has not been charged with that. The FBI interviewed her and so far, she's only been arrested on a local misdemeanor charge of illegal airport obstruction, no federal charges at this point. But the FAA this morning has been tweeting overnight at least about their strategy to fortify the flight deck for future flight saying, "Last year, we made progress to require new planes to have a second barrier to the flight deck after the rule stalled under the previous administration. We're working quickly to issue the final rule."

So, what would that barrier look like Poppy, it would likely be some sort of gates or a -- mesh wire panels, something like that would be pulled across the aisle of the plane in front of the first row. But it's important to note it would only apply these changes to new aircraft. They would not be upgrading airplanes that are currently flying today. HARLOW: They're not, not the majority of them. Fascinating but scary,

it all happened. Gabe, thanks very much.

LEMON: And right now, the Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg is on the ground in East Palestine. There you see the pictures of him we're going to talk to environmentalist Erin Brockovich about her and official's efforts to help residents, next.

[08:25:52]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Right now, Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg is on the ground in East Palestine, Ohio. He is on the scene of the rack, where that train loaded with dangerous chemicals derailed and burst into flames. Let's bring in Erin Brockovich. She is an environmental activist who helped the people of Hinkley, California, you'll remember so well, when millions against PG&E over that toxic water caused by them. In the 90s, Julia Roberts, of course, won the Oscar for playing her in the movie. Her namesake movie, Erin is in East Palestine helping the people there. You're a hero to a lot of us, and you're -- I think can be a hero to the people of East Palestine. So, good morning, and thank you.

ERIN BROCKOVICH, ENVIRONMENTAL ADVOCATE, EAST PALESTINE JUSTICE.COM: Good morning. Thank you for having me.

HARLOW: Can we talk about where you think given all your experience, what you did in Hinkley and what you've done since? Where do you place this disaster in the larger context of disasters?

BROCKOVICH: Like the one I've never seen, I've been doing this for 30 years now. And the lack of information that has not been given to these people, that they've been almost left here, not knowing what's going on, where to go, what to do, who to turn to their fear. I mean, all of it feels very remnant. To me of what happened in Hinkley and a community that were showing up pretty late to the game, that's already been through a lot. And my biggest concern from day one has been the people, and what it is they don't know, what it is we need to find out quickly for their health and safety. And they're still so uncertain about their safety and coming back to this town.

HARLOW: You know, one of the real issues and tragedies of Hinkley and the deaths there is the trust, they trusted the company. You know, they trusted officials who just didn't tell them the truth. And I wonder, do you believe when these people and East Palestine here, the EPA Administrator, for example, told our colleagues here aside in our yesterday the water has been tested, the air has been tested, and coming back with no adverse health impact levels. That's a quote, should the people of East Palestine trust that drink the water?

BROCKOVICH: Well, as I said, you know, I really I've seen the pictures with the water and I've shared before, you know, that is in a moment that the water is safe, that doesn't mean that's what the conditions will be tomorrow. And I think this is something that's really important. They had an acute immediate exposure when they lit all those chemicals on fire. We've had all kinds of cert and chemicals rain out on them. And what happens in the water is a process that takes time. How this chemical will travel with the water? How long it will take to get to a municipality to a well water? Those are two different conversations. So, I feel it's a little bit misleading in a moment that I must -- I don't want to say sensationalized but, in a moment, where the water has yet to march out that you can say it safe, but you cannot give that assurance that --

HARLOW: Yes.

BROCKOVICH: -- will be the condition tomorrow?

HARLOW: Yes.

BROCKOVICH: Or a month from now or two months from now.

HARLOW: Yes, and I keep thinking about here in New York after 9/11 in the air and the impact years and years later on the first responders. Erin, can you just listen to this from Jim Stewart, a pal -- East Palestine and resident who said this to the CEO of Norfolk Southern last night on CNN, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM STEWART, RESIDENT OF EAST PALESTINE, OH: You know, I'm 65 years old, a diabetic, A-Fib hearts, heart disease, everything. Now, did you shorten my life now? I want to retire and enjoy it. How are we going to enjoy it? You burned me. We were going to sell our house, our value went (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: What recourse do these people deserve?

BROCKOVICH: Well, we'd be foolish to say that obviously, Norfolk is going to get sued. I hear and --

[08:30:00]