Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

Lloyd Austin is Interviewed about Ukraine; Beyond the Call of Duty. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired February 24, 2023 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: View on where the war stands and how he thinks it could end.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: What do the next few weeks look like, do you think? Do you think there's going to be a surge in attacks from Russia around the anniversary of this?

LLOYD AUSTIN, DEFENSE SECRETARY: So, Kaitlan, what we're seeing is a very contested battlefield in and around the Bakhmut area. You've - I know you've reported on that on a daily basis.

Russia has continued to pour in new recruits into this fight. These recruits are ill equipped and not very well trained and they're -

COLLINS: But it's manpower.

AUSTIN: It's manpower. And they're meeting their demise in short order.

And so Russia has the casualties that they've - that they've taken are incredible. I think you'll continue to see that kind of -- them experience those kind of casualties going forward.

COLLINS: Do you still ultimately think Ukraine can win this?

AUSTIN: Ukraine's goal is to take back as much as their - as much of their sovereignty territory as possible. And they have performed in an impressive fashion. And I think what you'll see in the spring is them conduct a -- a counter offensive. What they're doing now is they hold terrain in the - in the east. They're building combat power.

You've heard us talk about the fact that we're providing them with Bradley infantry fighting vehicles, which is a very capable platform. We're providing them with a brigades worth of striker vehicles. That's another infantry fighting vehicle. The Germans are providing mortars, the - Sweden is providing infantry fighting vehicles. Poland is providing tanks and - and infantry fighting vehicles. And so we're pulling all of this capability together.

And it's the not just platforms, Kaitlan. We're also training troops on the platform as we get them into the country. And we're training them on combined arms maneuver. This is going to help them be able to be more affective once these troops are reintroduced into the fight.

COLLINS: One thing we keep hearing from the president, when he was just in Ukraine and we were in Poland with him is, the United States is with Ukraine as long as it takes. Can you define that for us? Is it, as long as it takes until Ukraine wins, or is it as long as it takes until what?

AUSTIN: Well, our force -- as long as Ukraine continues to conduct operations and continues to work to take back its sovereign territory, we'll be there with them. And that's what it means.

COLLINS: So, as long as Ukraine is fighting?

AUSTIN: That's right. And you can expect that the international community will be with Ukraine once the fighting stops.

COLLINS: Are you worried about a stalemate?

AUSTIN: I think the things that we're doing, the capability that we're providing -- again, capability, not just a platform. The capabilities that we're providing I think it enable the Ukrainians to begin to change the dynamics on the battlefield. And so rather than having a stalemate, what you could - what you'll probably see is Ukrainians shaping this fight so that they can create opportunities for themselves.

COLLINS: What specifically do you think is going to change the dynamics on the battlefield that the U.S. and NATO allies are providing?

AUSTIN: We're training and equipping several brigades of mechanized infantry. That's a pretty substantial capability. And in addition to that, additional artillery. And so they'll have the ability to breach Russian defenses and maneuver. And I think that will create a different dynamic.

COLLINS: I want to talk more about the weaponry in a moment. But when you look at this and you're making your assessments, do you think this ends with negotiations or does it end on the battlefield?

AUSTIN: Most likely it will end with some sort of negotiation. And what the Ukrainians are interested in is getting their - getting the Russians out of their sovereign territory. And I think that's probably going to be their going in point, but, you know, I'll let the Ukrainians speak for themselves.

COLLINS: Is your sense -- they seem to say they want to get all of the territory. They want all Russians out of their territory. Earlier you just said as much as possible. Which one is it specifically?

AUSTIN: That's going to be defined by the Ukrainian leadership.

COLLINS: So, if they say they want all Russians out of their territory, and the U.S. says they are with them as long as it takes, is that until all Russians are out of Ukrainian territory?

AUSTIN: Again, I don't want to define things for President Zelenskyy and the Ukrainian people. We'll let them define that.

COLLINS: On the weaponry, we have heard from President Zelenskyy saying that they want more sophisticated weaponry. They want the F-16 fighter jets. They want the longer-range missiles. Is the U.S. going to ultimately provide either of those to Ukraine?

[06:35:01]

AUSTIN: I don't have any announcement to make on F-16s, Kaitlan.

What I'm focused on is making sure that they have the capability to be successful in this next fight. And what they need most urgently is air defense capability. And you heard us say that a number of times. And we continue to press to get as much air defense - ground based air defense capability into the country as quickly as possible.

You know, I meet with ministers of defense from NATO and from around the globe, quite frankly, on a - on a monthly basis.

COLLINS: Which is really remarkable.

AUSTIN: Yes. It's - it is remarkable. And what's remarkable to me is that all of these countries remain focused and they remain united in terms of their desire to support Ukraine.

Quite frankly, this has enabled me to get to know my counterparts probably better than any other secretary of defense in a long, long time because, you know, we're meeting every month, either in person or virtually. And - and I think this -- this effort, this working together, it has really played a big part in maintaining the unity as - as we go forward.

COLLINS: You said no announcements on the F-16s. Are you discussing providing those to Ukraine?

AUSTIN: I don't have any comments for you on F-16s, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: One thing - one suggestion that the Ukrainian foreign minister has raised is, if there are still no decision on sending those, training Ukrainian pilots on them so that if you do decide to send them, they know how to use them immediately and it's not a situation like where we are with the tanks, where they are having to train on them after the decision was made. Is that something that the Pentagon is considering?

AUSTIN: Yes. So, what we did with the tanks, early on we - we provided tanks to the Ukrainians that they knew how to use. T-72s and other pieces of equipment that they were familiar with. And so it's not as if we started from zero with tanks two weeks ago or a month ago. We poured in hundreds of tanks from allied - allies and partners. And that what's enabled the Ukrainians to be successful to this point. And as we transition, we have to train troops -- take troops out of combat and train them on these platforms. And that - and that's what we're doing.

COLLINS: But when it comes to the long-range missiles, the ATACMS and whatnot that we've heard members of Congress say they do think Ukraine needs, there are critics who say that the U.S. and allies are providing Ukraine with enough it needs to survive but not enough to win.

AUSTIN: Kaitlan, the -- first of all, the United States has provided over $30 billion worth of security assistance to Ukrainians. And we have worked with allies and partners to continue to get as much to Ukraine that they need as quickly as we possibly can. I think that allies and partners, in conjunction with us, have done a really good job in that endeavor.

As you look at the affects that the Ukrainians have created on the battlefield, they have decimated, in a lot of - in a lot of cases, many of the forces, the Russian forces that have been fielded. Putin had his best forces committed to this fight, and the Ukrainians have chewed up a large portion of them. They've destroyed a significant number of his tanks and mechanized vehicles and artillery. So, they have been successful beyond anybody's imagination.

COLLINS: Ammunition, can you produce it as fast as they're using it?

AUSTIN: We will make sure that Ukraine has what it needs to be successful on the battlefield. And, again, this is not just the United States -

COLLINS: So that's a yes?

AUSTIN: This is -- this is the entire international community.

COLLINS: So you do think you can - you can provide it to them? They're not going to have to decide to narrow who they're targeting because they might run out of ammunition, is that what you're saying?

AUSTIN: Well, you know, commanders are going to have to make choices, you know, throughout. And they've been doing that. We - we've been providing them with significant quantities of munitions to be -- not only successful, but in some cases dominant. I mean they've really - you take a look at what's going on in places like Voladar (ph), I mean, they've destroyed a lot of Russian forces and a lot of that's with artillery.

So, projecting forward, we continue to - we've increased our production lines. Allies and partners are doing that as well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: He seemed to make quite a bit of news in that, especially when he talked about the ability of Ukrainian forces to push back Russian forces.

COLLINS: Well, and to breach their defenses.

HARLOW: Yes. COLLINS: If that is what's going to happen in this expected counteroffensive that we think Ukraine's going to do, that the U.S. thinks Ukraine is going to do, that's pretty remarkable. I mean we'll see if it actually happens, but -

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: You know what, I - I was talking to you during the thing about this. He thinks there's going to be a negotiated end to this war -

COLLINS: Yes.

LEMON: Which is, to me, a bit surprising I think considering Vladimir Putin's posture this entire time.

COLLINS: Well, and the question is, is that sooner or later? What does that look like? Obviously, the battlefield they believe would be later since Putin's not giving up.

The one thing that he's done that's really remarkable is, they do this meeting almost on a monthly basis with 50 other of his counterparts, defense ministers from other countries, to talk specifically about Ukraine.

[06:40:07]

I don't think anything like that has ever happened, at least in the history of the United States.

HARLOW: Yes.

LEMON: And just on a personal note, what a nice guy. What a nice man he is.

COLLINS: A Bama guy.

LEMON: A family guy, yes.

HARLOW: Bama guy.

COLLINS: Bama guy. Auburn.

HARLOW: Bama guy.

LEMON: A Bama guy. And a family guy.

COLLINS: He's Auburn, though. I like that (ph).

HARLOW: And we'll see more, 8:00 a.m.

COLLINS: Yes, more coming up on China. Really interesting answers on that.

HARLOW: All right, coming up for us next, a man experiencing homelessness in Detroit has a new lease on life. Wait until you see how one police officer went "Beyond the Call of Duty" to help him.

Plus this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX MURDAUGH, DEFENDANT: I did lie to them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: A lot of tears yesterday. You know who it is, Alex Murdaugh, admitting he lied to investigators the night his wife and son were murdered. What was he trying to hide?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Welcome back.

A chance encounter between a police officer and a homeless man in Detroit leads to a special bond of friendship and brotherhood.

[06:45:00]

Our Adrienne Broaddus has more of their story in this week's "Beyond the Call of Duty."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In the shadows of downtown Detroit.

ADRIAN HUGH: I had my cot where - a sleeping cot that I slept on. And then I also had a clothes - a bag of clothes.

BROADDUS: Adrian Hugh says this abandons gas station -

HUGH: I was homeless.

BROADDUS: Is where he slept for seven months.

HUGH: I was pretty much at my lowest point and ready to just give up. I didn't want to live anymore. And then I met Marcus, and everything changed.

My man. My brother. How we doing?

BROADDUS: That's Corporal Marcus Harris II.

CPL. MARCUS HARRIS, DETROIT POLICE: Oh, look at you.

BROADDUS: The Detroit police officer, seen in this body camera video, responded to a call from the deputy mayor about homeless people sleeping here. Harris runs the department's unsheltered response unit to help address homelessness.

HARRIS: He told me he's from Cali, from California. And I said, would you like to go back to California? So, I looked at my phone and I started scrolling and looking at the Greyhound tickets.

HARRIS: So, the tickets are sold out for 4:00 today. They got another bus going out tomorrow at 4:00. You just grab -

HUGH: Thank you.

HARRIS: Just grab whatever you -

HUGH: You got me wanting to cry.

BROADDUS: But Hugh declined the bus ticket. Instead, he chose to stay in Detroit and use the city's resources.

HUGH: You saved me, took me off the streets.

BROADDUS: Harris also helped Hugh replace his stolen documents.

HARRIS: He has got his birth certificate. He has got his Michigan I.D. He has got his Social Security. He's staying in the shelter, getting ready to get settled with housing. You know, he got his resume set up so he can work.

BROADDUS: And Hugh, a former forklift operator, said he's waiting on a background check to clear after an interview with the Detroit Metropolitan Airport to serve as a ramp agent.

DEPUTY MAYOR TODD BETTISON, DETROIT: If you need a job, you need employment, whatever you need, let me know?

BROADDUS: And he's got support from the man who made the initial call, the deputy mayor, a former police officer.

HARRIS: You know, that's our key thing that we're supposed to do as police officers, give people hope and to give them another chance in life.

You've been eating, huh?

HUGH: Yes. I'm 233 now. I went from 190 to 233.

BROADDUS: Now they talk weekly and share inside jokes.

HARRIS: I became a police officer because of my dad. My dad is currently 25 years on the department. He's a role model to me. Always like a superman.

HUGH: This is where you found me.

I'll take this friendship over the bus ticket home any day.

HARRIS: That's real, man.

HUGH: I don't know where I'd be or what I'd be doing now.

BROADDUS: Adrienne Broaddus, CNN, Detroit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Yes. LEMON: Needed that on a Friday morning here.

Coming up, CNN gets rare access on board of U.S. military flight over the South China Sea amid rising tensions with Beijing. In our next hour we're going to take you live there.

COLLINS: Plus, Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers has emerged from several days at a darkness retreat.

LEMON: A what?

COLLINS: Hmm, that sounds nice. Why was he there? Did he see the light? We'll tell you more, next.

LEMON (singing): Hello darkness, my old friend.

COLLINS: Oh, I love that song.

HARLOW: I would love a darkness retreat. Love.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:52:18]

LEMON: So am I supposed to read this like this?

COLLINS: Should we turn out the lights?

LEMON: I know, right?

HARLOW: Let's meditate together.

LEMON: Um.

Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers has emerged from his darkness retreat in Oregon. The four time MVP spent his time in isolation with -- to find inner peace of mind. Look, this is serious. I hope that it helped him, seriously, and helped him decide if he wants to stay in Green Bay. Rodgers is under contract with the Packers for nearly $60 million guaranteed if he plays in 2023. He's spent his entire 18-year NFL career in Green Bay.

So, look, he's got, what how many, 18 million reasons to -

HARLOW: Sixty.

COLLINS: Yes.

LEMON: Sixty million to do whatever kind of retreat he wants.

So, good luck to him.

COLLINS: Tough decision to make. (INAUDIBLE).

LEMON: Do you know what a darkness retreat is? COLLINS: So, I actually looked this up and what he's in -- it's like a

300 square foot room that he spends his time. It's a partially underground structure, has a queen bed, bathroom and a meditation like mat. Maybe we'll send you there to do like a report. On assignment --

HARLOW: I want to go. I just want to sleep. I just want to sleep for five days.

LEMON: I would do it. I would go.

COLLINS: In the -

LEMON: Especially if there was iwaska (ph) involved or something. We'll see.

HARLOW: OK.

Ukraine, a very grim anniversary today. Innocent children slaughtered, millions displaced, but the country still standing strong as we mark Russia's brutal assault on Ukraine one year later. What will Putin do next? That's the question. We're live in Moscow ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:58:28]

HARLOW: Well, former President Jimmy Carter is now in hospice care as age 98. He built his legacy as both president and really post president, but also as a husband. He's been married for the better part of eight decades to Rosalynn. They met when they were babies in the tiny town of Plains, Georgia. Jimmy was three years old. Rosalynn was a newborn. And she spent a lot of time at the Carter's house, as you can see here, because she was friends with Carter's sister. Their first date was back in 1945, and Carter told his mom that Rosalynn would be the woman that he was going to marry, all the way back then. She didn't accept his proposal at first. She wanted him to graduate from the Naval Academy, but she says he was persistent. Here they are on their wedding day, this is 1946. Just look at those smiles. She was by his side throughout his political career. Here they are dancing at the inaugural ball in 1977. Rosalynn once said she couldn't imagine her life without him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: How has your long and vibrant marriage enriches your life and work?

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I'll let you answer first.

ROSALYNN CARTER, WIFE OF JIMMY CARTER, FORMER FIRST LADY: Oh.

J. CARTER: She can't think of anything.

R. CARTER: Well, I don't -- I don't know. I've been married all of my life almost. And I don't know how it could have been enriched more if it had not been for Jimmy Carter. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Awe. As for the former president, he says marrying her was the best decision he ever made.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, the best thing I ever did was marry Rosalynn.

[07:00:00]

That's the pinnacle of my life. And we've had 69 years together. Still together.