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DOJ's Louisville Police Probe; Sen. Joe Manchin is Interviewed about the Budget. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired March 09, 2023 - 08:30   ET



MAYOR CRAIG GREENBERG (D), LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY: We needed to address what's happened in the past so that we can move forward into the future with progress, with reform, with improvement of our police department, of our city government, really with the entire community. And we are both committed to embracing reform and improvement, to work collaboratively with the United States Department of Justice, collaboratively with the entire city of Louisville, so that we can have a police department that is the model for all across America. One that everyone trusts regardless of who they are. That is what we're striving for.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Mayor, in your comments yesterday you said, many of these people in your community, quote, spoke out and they felt dismissed or devalued. We just played for you what Breonna Taylor's mom said, but there were and are so many people in Louisville who were dismissed. One woman told DOJ in this investigation that she had told the police over and over again about this detective who was extorting sex from her daughter and they didn't believe her. And it turns out he was. And it turns out five years later, after potentially other victims, that this was actually addressed.

Can -- will people be believed now?

GREENBERG: I certainly hope so. To those whose voices were not heard over the past several years, over the past decades, yesterday was an important day. The United States Department of Justice essentially said, yes, we have heard you, we heard your complaints and you were right. And as painful as that is as a city, we have to acknowledge that. And that's the only way that we can heal the wounds that still exist in our city and that's the only way that we can now work to come together better than we have to move forward. And so it's certainly a painful report, but an important report.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: After George Floyd, after Breonna Taylor, after Ahmaud Arbery and other such incidents around the country in 2020, the country had really been paying attention to what happened - what's happening with police departments, right? This was after -- I wrote in the book - in my book, after all these incidents, it's -- the ideology with which we currently deploy police in major cities is tantamount to exercising a melanoma with a blowtorch. In neighborhoods where racial bias shapes police response, black people are still being admonished to go slow as they push for change. But how much more slowly could we have gone? When you think about that, you were saying, this is a 36 -- there are

36 ways that they're saying that there should be improvements in the department. Are you going to act quickly? Are you taking your time? When are you going to implement these, Chief?

INTERIM CHIEF JACKIE GWINN-VILLAROEL, LOUISVILLE METRO POLICE: We're already acting. And we're already in the process of reform. Many of the recommendations within the report is highlighting some of the things that we already have pushed forward with having our accountability improvement bureau stood up, which encompasses our wellness. We want our officers to be whole (ph). We want them to be mentally, financially, and spiritually well. And so we're underway with that. We want to make sure that we are hearing the community and by providing them an outlet for them to be able to come and speak with us directly. We're doing just that.

So, in the report, and you also see that the report did state that we are already making those improvements. And so, yes, we're not waiting, we're not stopping, we're moving aggressively ahead because, let me say this, whether the DOJ was here or not, we should be a premier department. We should be a department that the citizens of Louisville can be proud of. And, guess what, for us, internally, to be proud of our ourselves.

So, no, we're not waiting, we're moving forward.

GREENBERG: And as the Department of Justice themselves said, the vast majority of our officers are good and honorable people who are in their public service roles for the right reasons, that are doing their job, working to keep everybody safe. And so we're building on that with that team.

And our focus on training, the chief has a background in police training, and we are really focused on improving our training immediately. It's going to take months to consent - to get the consent decree in place with the Department of Justice. We are not waiting.

HARLOW: I think that's really important, right, to not - to - to do it now.

Thank you both. Good luck, Chief and Mayor, appreciate your time this morning.

GREENBERG: Thank you.

GWINN-VILLAROEL: Thank you so much.

LEMON: Let's hope other police departments around the country are following it's lead.

HARLOW: Feeling the same. Absolutely.


KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: A really important. Also, just a few hours from now, we're going to see President Biden

unveil his budget proposal. What's in it? What's getting cut? What lawmakers will and won't agree to. We're going to ask one of them. Democratic Senator Joe Manchin is here. He joins us next.



COLLINS: All right, in just hours from now, President Biden is going to release his budget proposal for the fiscal year 2024. The White House says that proposal would actually reduce the deficit by about $3 trillion over the next ten years with tax reforms aimed at the wealthy and large corporations, no surprises there, as well as cuts to wasteful spending on special interests, they say, like big oil, big pharma. I'm quoting the White House there.

This has no chance of actually getting passed, no traction it's going to gain in Congress, but it is a statement of priorities as Capitol Hill is gearing up for a pending showdown over the debt ceiling.

So, to talk with us about that showdown is Democratic Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia, who serves on the Appropriations, Armed Services and Energy and Natural Resources Committees. So, very busy.

Senator, though, I know we have a lot to talk about, but I want to start with Senator McConnell, who fell and was hospitalized overnight.


COLLINS: Do you know anything about how he's doing?

MANCHIN: I haven't heard anything at all. But my prayers are with him for a speedy recovery. I hope it's not serious. And as we know, Mitch is a war horse. He'll be, hopefully, back in the saddle again and going strong. And we hope to see him back quickly.



MANCHIN: So, I hope it's not serious.

COLLINS: We're all hoping for a speedy recovery as well. We'll continue to track that.


COLLINS: On President Biden today, releasing this budget blueprint that we are told by the administration is going to have -- propose cutting the budget deficit by about $3 trillion over the next decade. From what you've seen so far, do you think it goes far enough?

MANCHIN: Well, I haven't seen -- I haven't seen in detail yet. I've heard tidbits of it. So, we'll be getting more briefed today as it comes out. And then my staff will break it down. Kaitlan, what we have to understand, first of all, in the last 10

years, since 2013, we've added about $17 trillion to $18 trillion of new debt. Some of that was attributable to Covid. But shouldn't we be looking at how we accumulate so much debt so quickly? And both sides are to blame. So, if Democrats want to blame Republicans, Republicans want to blame Democrats, this is an American problem we have to fix. And the blame game is not going to fix it.

I can't tell you if $3 trillion's enough, if it's anywhere close to what we - where we need to be. But I can tell you, we've accumulated over $17 triller to $18 trillion, from $13 trillion to $31.5 trillion as we speak. That breaks down to $94,000 per person in America. For every person in America, children, everybody, that's $94,000. The interest this year, Kaitlan, is $600 billion. If we do nothing, which I'm happy to see that the president's changing the trajectory, but if we do nothing, that's $130 trillion by 2015. $130 trillion of debt. $5 trillion a year will be spent towards interest. That is non-attainable whatsoever. We would not be a superpower of the world. We've got to start getting our financial house in order, period. And it's going to be tough.

COLLINS: Yes. Do you want to see Democrats hold firm to their stance of a clean debt ceiling hike with no, you know, nothing tied to that, or do you think they should compromise with Republicans here who are saying that there should be some spending cuts in addition to that?

MANCHIN: Well, here everyone's talking about spending cuts. Can we just see if we can go back to normal? Where were we before Covid? What was our trajectory before that? How much new debt did we accumulate during Covid because of all the subsidies? And is it possible to start going back and just getting back to normal before you start cutting the bejesus and scaring people to death. That's what gets people all upset.

But for Democrats to say, oh, no, we're not going -- just vote for it clean, well, that's not going to happen. That's not recommend. We should be talking about during a debt crisis and a debt ceiling, how do we fix it? And we fix it by basically being more disciplined. And we're not there. They're not even getting a budget. The president's budget is about a month late. He's putting a budget out, but it's about a month late.

The House and Senate is supposed to have a budget before us on April the 1st and have reconciliation by April the 15th. And then by September the 30th, we're supposed to have a complete budget done. If we do that, that saves billions of dollars. If we just do our jobs.

So, there's so many things that we can do and be disciplined and do our jobs the same as all Americans have to do.

COLLINS: Yes, a lot of missed deadlines. But you're saying that a clean debt ceiling hike is not going to happen, is that right?

MANCHIN: No, no. No, I'm going to vote for a clean. Basically we're paying for the sins of the past. I'm not going to hold it hostage. I'm not going to say, well, I'm not going to vote unless you do this. But to say that we can't sit down and have an agreement, have an agreement that we're going to look at these different types of things and we're not going to touch Social Security and Medicare, we're protecting that for the people that basically depend on it for their lifeline. But we're going to look at everything that we possibly can. How come we've increased $3.5 trillion of spending in 2013? How did it get to $6.2 trillion? How did that happen, OK? We know about -- discount the Covid, but how did that happen? And how come we have so much in what we call nondiscretionary funding? That means we can't even talk about it, Kaitlan. That means it's put over there. You're just going to have to continue to fund that. How did it grow so quickly? How do we have so many things that are so necessary that weren't before? Those types of things. And we should have that conversation. And we should have an agreement to basically come back in 60 days or 90 days and have things on the table, then you can vote, but don't hold it hostage.

COLLINS: Well, on that front, and you talk about the president being late in releasing his budget blueprint, we don't even know when Republicans are going to release theirs. They have not said what exactly they are going to cut. Is it possible for them to reduce the deficit if they don't touch Social Security, they don't raise taxes and they don't touch Medicare?

MANCHIN: Well, you're looking at a long trajectory there. You have to look at everything that's happened. Are we running those programs as efficiently as we can. We're making sure that the people that have worked, that have paid into it, that are receiving are going to continue to. In my state, about 60 percent, and I'm sure in Alabama is about the same, a high percentage of retirees, that's all they have. We're going to protect them. But that's been there for about 100 years. Now all of a sudden saying that's the bugaboo, that's the one that's killing us all. We know it's expensive, but there's a commitment we have to people to age with dignity.


And we're going to protect that.

But there's an awful lot of abuse and waste that goes on throughout the entire system. Again, that's not the 4.9 trillion. Everyone thinks that - well, that's everything. If you don't do that, you do nothing. That's not true. That is just not true.

COLLINS: Senator Manchin, over the last week you have announced on Capitol Hill your opposition to three of the president's nominees, including the person he picked to run the IRS. You sharply criticized the Interior Department for delaying a plan for leases for offshore oil and gas. You said you're going to vote with Republicans to rescind that EPA water rule. Obviously we saw the vote on the D.C. crime bill. What is your relationship with the White House like right now?

MANCHIN: They know exactly where I'm coming from. I said, don't give me anybody that's a true advocate or pretty far left and I'd say the same, pretty far right, whoever the administration is. Give me people who are more grounded, more centrist, if you will. And if you give me an advocate, that somebody that's going to be advocating for their position. You cannot put those types of people and try to get good results for official, you know, and problem-solving areas and basically oversights, whether it be FCC or whatever. So, I've been very clear about that.

As far as the gentleman for the IRS, most qualified. He'll do a good job. That was a message I'm sending because the president and his administration is not adhering to the piece of legislation called the Inflation Reduction Act. They have touted that as strictly an environmental bill. And I can assure you, we put that together and negotiated after we put it together. No one even knew that my -- me and my staff were working on it, Kaitlan. It was for energy security.

My goodness, when you saw Putin do what he did with energy, and you know what's happening to our friends in the EU and Europe and all over, and then basically not being able to produce the energy we have under our feet in our great country, and we're asking other countries, such as Iran and Venezuela, the greatest terrorist supporter in the world, Iran, you want them to have more money to create more havoc to humankind? I'm just - I was appalled. And I said, we've got to do things more and be more secured in our state, and our country, so that we can help our allies if they start looking elsewhere for energy. Everything they're rolling out is relaxing, and I just said, you're trying to basically reconfigure a piece of legislation that we passed, that we passed in the Congress, to something that you want and wasn't in that legislation. So, I'm holding their feet to the fire there. And I'll send -- continue to send every message I can, please, adapt and enforce the legislation for energy security.

COLLINS: Yes, you're certainly sending some messages.

When you were recently asked if you're still a Democrat, if you still consider yourself a Democrat, you said, I'm an American. That raised a lot of eyebrows.

MANCHIN: Let me just be very clear, everyone knows I'm not a Washington Democrat, that's for sure. And the old southern Democrats, where I come from, and my grandparents and all that, they are responsible, accountable, they worked hard, they helped people, they expected people to get up off their rear end and work and contribute to this great country.

But I have a lot of great friends who aren't Washington Republicans either. The system in -- the political system in America is broke. It truly is. And in Washington, we're not giving you a choice to (INAUDIBLE). That makes sense. Yes, we should be doing something like that. We're pushing you to the extreme left or right. You might not like either position that you're pushed to, but you have no other options.

I want that sensible, reasonable, responsible middle to have a voice. I'm going to be speaking for that as loudly as I can.

COLLINS: Well, given that, do you think - you know, you were asked recently if you would endorse Biden for his re-election run that he's expected to announce. You declined do so. Do you think he should be challenged for the 2024 nomination? MANCHIN: I'm not going to be involved in many decisions but --

definitely my own decisions as far as politics or my political posturing, whatever would be, or what my political future may be, until the end of the year. When you have a border crisis that we have, when you have an energy crisis that we will have if we don't become energy secure, you've got high inflation, you've got all the things you just identified and you all do so -- I think so aptly, and so accurately on your - on your network, when you're identifying all of those, and we're worried about the next election, only in America does the next cycle start the day after the last cycle. This is crazy. Let's do our job at least for another year. We have a whole nother year after that.

COLLINS: That's fair. But you know that answer is going to make some people think that you're thinking about getting into the presidential race.

MANCHIN: Hold on. I've said this and I will repeat this one more time, Kaitlan, I am not making any decisions whatsoever on what my political future may be until the end of the year.

COLLINS: All right. Senator Manchin, thank you for your time this morning. We will be checking back in with you at the end of the year. We appreciate your time.

MANCHIN: Thanks, Kaitlan. It's always good to be with you. Great job.

COLLINS: Thank you so much.

MANCHIN: Uh-huh. Bye-bye.

COLLINS: And we'll be right back after this.



LEMON: Well, we know Rihanna, there she is, brought the house down with her Super Bowl performance this year, and she inspired some surprising fans to recreate it. Here it is.


RIHANNA, MUSICIAN (singing): Come here rude boy, boy, can you get it up? Come here rude boy, boy, is you big enough? Take it, take it, yeah, baby, baby, yes, take it, take it, yeah, , love me, love me, yeah.

Come here rude boy, boy, boy, boy, boy.


LEMON: This is a group of women at the Acade (ph) senior living in Bowling Green, Kentucky. And they absolutely nailed it. I mean, come on, you got to love it.

HARLOW: Oh, my gosh.

LEMON: They're loving life.

Rihanna and Jay-z loved their performance so much that they sent 100 roses to the ladies. That's pretty awesome.

COLLINS: OK, that's amazing.

LEMON: I can't even do that.

Bye, y'all. Have a great day.

COLLINS: The outfits too.

LEMON: They were great.


COLLINS: I love them.

LEMON: Oh, my gosh.

COLLINS: All right, on that note.

HARLOW: That note. CNN "NEWSROOM" is after this.

HARLOW: Oh, man.

LEMON: Oh, my gosh.