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CNN This Morning

Today: Trump Set to Surrender and Face Criminal Charges; Trump Hires Experienced White-Collar Defense Attorney; Tennessee Democratic Lawmakers Face Expulsion Over Gun Violence Protest. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired April 04, 2023 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: History is about to be made when he leaves Trump Tower and heads downtown in this country's 45th president becomes the first to face criminal charges.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: The fact that he has added a new defense attorney the day before he's about to be arraigned does show that they are taking this seriously.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump is an innocent person until proven guilty. The principle of equal justice is the only issue at hand.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grand jury proceedings or some of the most secretive proceedings. That process is a non-political process.

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): This guy is doing politics. He has an agenda. That is not the rule of law.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is in good spirits. He is ready to go in and do what he needs to do.

MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: This is not a situation that he has any control over. I think right now he's beyond petrified.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You've got to liberal prosecutor that's doing political revenge against a former president. That's not a precedent that you want to have.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): The more dangerous precedent to set here would be to do nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Well, today it all happens.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Today is the day.

HARLOW: It's the day. Good morning, everyone, 7:00 A.M. here on the East Coast. We're glad you're with us. The sun is up. Behind Kaitlan outside of 100 Centre Street, Kaitlan, the Manhattan criminal courthouse, which is where the world's attention will be on the former president today.

COLLINS: Yes. I should note that there is a lot of security here, there's a lot of New York Police Department Officers, a lot of barricades. There isn't a line of reporters actually snaking around the building here waiting to get access inside. They've been here since yesterday evening, just to give you a sense of what we're talking about, as history is about to unfold at the courthouse behind me here in New York. That is where for President Trump is going to be arranged just hours from now. He'll turn himself in and become the first ex-president in America to face criminal charges.

The arraignment is expected to happen in the 2:00 hour. We should note after the court hearing, Trump is planning to return back to Florida, to Mar-a-Lago, where he is expected to speak. Then we'll see if he does so before then.

He arrived in New York yesterday in a motorcade, brought him to Trump Tower, where he has been for the last several hours, meeting with his legal team yesterday on the eve of his surrender, also having dinner. We do know overnight, the judge has decided he will not allow news cameras into the courtroom to broadcast Trump's hearing.

But in his ruling, the judge did acknowledge that the indictment here is of, quote, monumental significance. The judge also wrote, quote, never in the history of the United States has a sitting or past president been indicted on criminal charges. Mr. Trump's arraignment has generated unparalleled public interest and media intrigue and media attention. The populist rightly hungers for the most accurate and current information available to suggest otherwise would be disingenuous. Those are the words of the judge Trump will appear before today.

Kara Scannell -- our CNN's Kara Scannell is here with me now. Kara, obviously, there's a lot of questions about what today is actually going to look like once Trump is here. What is the latest that you've heard and how they're preparing for this right?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. I mean, so we're starting to see some street closures. The one right down that corner is where the D.A.'s office entry is, and that's possibly where Trump will make his entrance. That's usually where people come into surrender. From there, he will be processed. We understand you know that there're questions about whether a mug shot will be taken, but he'll be fingerprinted.

And because he is the former president, there is a lot of security, there's a lot of protocols here. The courthouse is going to be emptied out for the period of this arraignment. The floor is restricted. There's -- as you mentioned, there is media lined up to get color coded passes to be able to get entry into the courtrooms and the overflow courtrooms since the judge has denied this request for cameras, you know?

And then it will. It's expected to be a relatively brief hearing. It's an arraignment. So, Trump will go in. COLLINS: How long do we think it will last?

SCANNELL: I mean, it could be anywhere from like 15 minutes to an hour, depending on what steps the judge wants to go through here. I mean, this is the first time Trump will be before a judge facing criminal charges, certainly a lot of weight to this. You know, it will be a moment to see him walk in the hallway, enter the courtroom and then sit behind the defendant's table.

Then the judge will, you know, ask him if he wants a reading of the indictment. That is usually waived. And then he will ask him to enter a plea. And then we will -- you know, sometimes the attorneys do it for the defendant, but, you know, it's possible Donald Trump will enter the plea of not guilty. That's what his lawyers say.

COLLINS: Also, we don't actually know who will say the words not guilty.

SCANNELL: Right. I mean, in some cases, the defendant utters it themselves, in other cases, the lawyer will enter it on their behalf. That's going to be a moment there. Is it going to be the former president who says it himself? And then just to see him then exit that courtroom in this historic moment, going from the Oval Office to this courthouse behind us to face these unprecedented charges.

[07:05:01]

COLLINS: Yes. It's a word I think we're going to be hearing a lot today. Kara, thank you for that, stand by. I know you're going to be in the courtroom today. We'll be talking about that as well.

Poppy, just so many moments here, of course, as the city is bracing for a lot of this. We do know some of what it's going to look like, but some of it -- so much of it is still really unknown.

HARLOW: What does it feel like down there?

COLLINS: It's interesting because it's not that chaotic. I was saying this yesterday when we were at Trump Tower, there were a few dozen protesters, but it wasn't really anything incredibly significant. That raised a lot of concern. There is a lot of security and Kara says they have been blocking off the roads. I got out several blocks away when we got here about 4:30 this morning, but you can see there's high interest. Obviously, there's a ton of members of the media here. And as Shimon saying earlier, you know, the police are making -- they're being vigilant about where you can and cannot go right now.

HARLOW: For sure.

LEMON: You can see as the sun is coming up, more people are down because the shots earlier hardly saw anyone on the street, except for some cars, right?

HARLOW: Yes. Okay. Kaitlan, thank you, we'll get back to you and Kara. In just a second, Mayor Eric Adams, New York City mayor, says he's, quote, really not concerned about the security challenges New York City is facing ahead of this arraignment.

Here with us now is CNN's Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller, who has -- knows a thing or two about what it's like to handle scenarios like this. Thanks for being here on a day like this.

So, it looks -- it all looks calm.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: And I think the mayor is right. The NYPD, particularly my old bureau, the intelligence bureau, has moved presidents, sitting presidents, former presidents, popes and kings through New York City many times. So, a lot of that is muscle memory. It's a detailed job.

LEMON: Against terrorists, all kinds of people that don't move through.

MILLER: And, I mean, Don, that's actually interesting because, you know, you have a dignitary that needs to move. A former president counts there. But you also have defendants who are under guard because of a myriad of threats and a complicated picture.

I remember working on the program we had to develop to move El Chapo around, not making the comparison between El Chapo and President Trump. But here you have a hybrid situation where you're protecting a former president who you are bringing to an arrest situation. So, it's odd but the dynamics of the operational piece or similar.

LEMON: A former FBI officer told The New York Times at the city's location was a deterrent to some violent protesters because, in his words --

MILLER: It's inconvenient.

LEMON: It's inconvenient. That's basically what he said.

MILLER: Expensive to get to too many tolls, hard to park. So, you have that going for you. On the other hand, it's a place that lives on mass transit, and there's all kinds of things that come this way.

But what we haven't seen is two critical things. One, a groundswell of people heading here to come in large numbers, and that has included everything from monitoring hotel reservations and all that to see if there is like a huge amount of people coming in for this particular date, not seeing that.

The other thing we haven't seen, and this should be acknowledged, is we haven't heard Donald Trump say, I want my people to be here on this date at this place, which would have been a game changer in terms of what to expect.

HARLOW: That's interesting. He did. He did call for protests, and he did have one point say death and destruction, tried to walk that back a little bit later. But you're right, not a specific date, time, place.

What they say the NYPD sees everything, what are they seeing that we don't know about?

MILLER: So, Poppy, what they're seeing is threats. You know, we were talking probably the other day about, you know, the first week, they were rounding 82, they surpassed 100. But, you know, I've kind of ticked through those threats on the two or three places where the great volume is online and, you know, there's about 60 right now targeting the district attorney, individual senior staff, the judge.

And you cannot separate yourself from that threat stream and statements that former President Trump has made about the judge hates me, why is he -- the district attorney is trying to derail the elections. So, in that way, you know, there has been a stirring of the pot in terms of verbiage that has generated real concern.

LEMON: Saying that the D.A. should indict himself overnight.

MILLER: Well, and they say a lot worse than that in these threat streams. I mean, I was going through them last night on the late side and, you know, they call for violence. But, you know, NYPD assesses those. So, do they see a specific, credible threat? No. Are they looking for that lone wolf? Yes, they're down there right now scanning.

HARLOW: John Miller, thank you very, very much.

Kaitlan, back to you. We're just thinking, as John was answering that last question, how rare it is to see these sustained attacks on the judiciary on judges, something we saw during Trump's term as president and something that is continuing now.

COLLINS: Yes, not surprising for Trump himself, surprising, generally, though, of course, because, typically, you would not see someone attacking the judge that they're going to be appearing before.

I've been speaking to a lot of people in Trump's orbit. They are not exactly thrilled with the fact that he's been going after the judge or saying like you did last night that Alvin Bragg should indict himself here.

[07:10:03]

Of course, you know, all this is coming as his legal team is dealing with all of that.

He does have a new attorney on his team, one that he added just yesterday. I was told Todd Blanche, he's a prominent white collar defense attorney, he joined after a member of Trump's own legal team has raised some questions about one of the attorneys that is in this case, Joe Tacopina.

This is what Trump attorney Tim Parlatore, who is not representing Trump in the Manhattan case, but is in the January 6th and the documents investigation. Here's what he told me on Friday when I asked if Tacopina was the right attorney to take this case to trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIMOTHY PARLATORE, ATTORNEY FOR FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP: As to who is going to try the case, I know that Joe has certain potential conflict issues, given his prior contacts with Stormy Daniels. So, you know, who is the right attorney taken to trial is something that the client will have to decide.

COLLINS: It sounds like you don't think that Joe Tacopina can. Do you think he has a conflict of interest here and will ultimately be the person representing Trump in this case?

PARLATORE: I'm not going to comment on Joe Tacopina.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Joining me now is CNN Senior Legal Analyst Eli Honig and CNN's Kara Scannell back with us.

We'll start with those comments there. You know Todd Blanche actually and you've worked with him previously. He was just added. What does it say to you that he was added to the legal team yesterday?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: It tells us that Donald Trump is taking this seriously, maybe belatedly, but he's definitely taking it seriously. Todd Blanche is an experienced prosecutor. He knows his way around this area we're sitting right now. He and I were colleagues together at the Southern District of New York, two buildings down that way, along with Alvin Bragg, let's note, the current D.A. He knows his way around the courtroom.

And he's, I think, perhaps a needed contrast with what we've seen so far from Donald Trump's team in that Todd Blanche is not a bombastic, he is not going to pound the podium, he is focused, he's careful, he's really soft spoken, if anything. And so perhaps this will bring some balance and some little more substance to Trump's legal team.

COLLINS: Which is pretty unusual for Trump to pick us off (ph).

HONIG: (INAUDIBLE) good tasting lawyers.

COLLINS: He has represented obviously people in Trump's people in Trump's orbit as well, Paul Manafort as an example of that.

When it comes to all of this, you know, we're thinking about Trump's legal team, but we're also talking about these attacks, as Poppy was noting there, the unusual nature of the attacks on the district attorney here, Alvin Bragg. We are going to hear from him today, too, though, after all of this happens.

SCANNELL: I mean, yes, we're expecting him to have a press conference later today.

COLLINS: Isn't that normal? Is that typical? SCANNELL: It is. I mean, big, high-profile cases, they usually will have a press conference because they have to answer questions of the public that we will post to them about this case. And, you know, a lot of the questions are going to be, you know, why now, a lot of this conduct happened seven years ago, why against the former president, what, you know, evidence he might be able, if it's in the indictment, that they can speak to. There's a lot of restrictions about what they can say.

But what he can do is address the public questions about, you know, why are you bringing this case, what is the significance of this case. And, you know, we've yet to see the indictment. So, we don't know exactly how they're laying it out, what the specific charges will be and if there is, you know, say, there is like a conspiracy charge, they could -- that gives them more leeway to explain what this crime was.

And I think that's the big question that the public has. We've heard it from Democrats and Republicans of you know, is this the right case to bring against the former president. This will be his opportunity to set their tone and why they think that this case is worthwhile.

HONIG: One thing I'll be watching for at that press conference is, does Alvin Bragg go outside the normal boundaries of this kind of presser? Because, normally, in this situation, prosecutors will only talk about what's already in the indictment, and you'll get some generalities about facts and law. But will he go into the questions you raised about this being the first ever prosecution and the timing? We'll see.

COLLINS: Yes, a lot of questions for him. I mean, you heard Congressman Byron Donalds there. House Republicans are trying to get his testimony. He's has so far as rebuffed those requests. But, Elie, I think what's also important here is the broader perspective that this may be the first indictment against Trump.

It may not be the last. I mean, there are a lot of other investigations that are much more worrisome to Trump's legal team, including our reporting from Katelyn Polantz yesterday about when it comes to documents investigation, the special counsel there is nailing down evidence. I was told Secret Service members are going to testify before the grand jury there. How much are you watching that?

HONIG: It's so important to keep that in mind. While we are here today, we are very much rightly focused on this. I think this is the least of the legal troubles in terms of the severity of conduct and we're seeing the special counsel make real strides in that investigation. I mean, subpoenaing and getting testimony potentially from Secret Service agents is a major step.

And, by the way, there is precedent for that. Bill Clinton's Secret Service agents were made to testify. They actually challenge it in court and made to testify back in the 1990s. So, let's remember this could only be the first of several indictments, which, by the way, will be playing out over the next year and change while we're in the midst of a primary season. We've never seen any sort of collision of law and politics like this.

[07:15:00]

COLLINS: Yes. And we know Trump's legal team has said do expect motions to dismiss here. We'll see how long it takes them to file those. A lot to watch today, Elie and Kara, thank you very much.

Don, obviously, some key questions that still remain. We don't know what is in this indictment. We're waiting to find out just in a few hours from now.

LEMON: Yes, we will in a few Hours. We'll get back to you, Kaitlan.

Today's arraignment, though, would likely not be happening if it were not for one person, and that is Michael Cohen. He is -- of course, he has been a key witness for the district attorney.

I want to bring in now Michael Cohen's lawyer, Lanny Davis, he joins me now. Lanny, good morning to you. Thank you so much.

LANNY DAVIS, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL COHEN: Good morning, Don.

LEMON: I just want to ask you right off, what are your thoughts on the addition to the legal team, Todd Blanche, to Trump's legal team?

DAVIS: I don't know him. I'm sure he's a respectable lawyer and Mr. Trump deserves a strong defense.

LEMON: The judge not allowing proceedings to be televised, do you agree with that ruling, Lanny?

DAVIS: I respect a judge's balancing of the need for transparency and public interest versus the need to avoid prejudice. And we want Mr. Trump to have a fair trial, and he's entitled to the presumption of innocence. And this is a day of profound sadness that an-ex president is indicted but it's also a time to celebrate.

I know Michael has always stood for one thing. He stood for equal justice under the law, and Mr. Trump is no different than any other American. We should celebrate that constitutional principle. But it's still a profoundly sad day that this has come to an indictment, where he's still presumed innocent, but it's an indictment of an ex- president.

LEMON: Just to get some closure on my last question. Would you prefer that there would be cameras in the courtroom? I know you respect what the judge says, but if you had your preference?

DAVIS: Will I personally prefer? I didn't hear that part. Sorry, Don. Yes, of course, I would prefer transparency and public interest and I don't see anything prejudicial about an arraignment and I would think that that would have been the judge's decision. But last thing, as a lawyer, I would ever do is second guess a judge's decision.

LEMON: You answered it correctly. I just changed the question up a bit for the second time. In addition to the hush money payments that Michael Cohen made to Stormy Daniels, grand jury has been asking about another hush money deal aimed at covering up alleged affair. This is between Trump and the former Playboy model, Karen McDougal, as I'm sure you're aware of. She's paid $150,000 by The National Enquirer.

This is what Michael Cohen, your client, said on tape talking to Trump in 2016. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: And I've spoken to Allen Weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with --

TRUMP: So, what do we got pay for this? 150?

COHEN: -- funding. Yes. And it's all the stuff --

TRUMP: Yes, I was thinking about.

COHEN: All the stuff. Because here, you never know where that company -- you never know where he's going to be.

TRUMP: Maybe he gets hit by a truck.

COHEN: Correct. So, I'm all over that. And I spoke to Allen about it, when it comes time for the financing, which will be --

TRUMP: Wait a sec, what financing?

COHEN: Well, I'll have to pay him something.

TRUMP: (INAUDIBLE) pay with cash --

COHEN: No, no, no, no, no. I got it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Do you expect this to be used in trial or mentioned in the indictment?

DAVIS: Yes.

LEMON: You do?

DAVIS: Yes. And there's nothing to smile about today. But I did have to smile because Donald Trump actually denied the word, cash, and you just heard it. This is about a transaction involving Mr. Pecker. It has been publicly reported in The Wall Street Journal, so I can speak about it. There's a second crime that Michael Cohen pled guilty to that involved Mr. Trump and Mr. Pecker, cashing and killing a story by former Playboy playmate named Karen McDougal.

That will be in the case. People forget that Michael Cohen pled guilty to that as paying hush money. This time, it was The National Enquirer paying the money. And it involves a direct conversation and deal between Mr. Pecker and Mr. Trump. You can conclude -- you make your own conclusions that there's another witness to Mr. Trump's crimes.

And may I just add quickly that the federal district prosecutors in New York called this crime very serious, threatening our democracy, by paying somebody money not to let the American people know information before presidential election. People who diminish this crime don't read what federal prosecutors described it as a serious crime impairing our democracy.

LEMON: I've got a long way to go, many questions for you and a short time to get there. So, let me just say that Michael Cohen in that tape probably does most of the talking there. Is there anything that proves a scheme to pay off McDougal was at Trump's instruction or direction?

DAVIS: Not in that tape. You can infer that Trump was aware of the plan for cash and kill and Karen McDougal. He said, how are we going to finance it? They were talking about taking the files that they were worried about at National Enquirer and also paying money for those files. That comes from Michael on that tape.

LEMON: Okay. Are you aware of any payments or any checks from Trump or Michael Cohen to reimburse The Enquirer or AMI or any other entity?

DAVIS: No, not to reimburse The Enquirer, but we're aware of a sitting president writing reimbursement checks for a crime with his own signature from his own checking account.

[07:20:03]

And that's amazing to me how the national media has almost ignored a sitting president writing a check to pay back a crime that he was a participant in and there just was a big yawn when we put those checks on television.

Okay. So, I have to ask you then, is Michael does the talking in that tape? Michael is also on television, speaking you as well. Folks are wondering if he is a key witness here. If he's going to be, then why is he giving interviews? Why are you giving interviews?

DAVIS: Well, we have a situation where my client told the truth in front of tens of millions of people and faced the consequences and went to prison and for ten years he admitted that he lied. Now, he's being attacked by everyone, including panelists at CNN without a rebuttal. And at the very least, he deserves a defense on his credibility because he did tell the truth from July 2nd, 2018 going forward, when he decided to speak truth to power.

He suffered the pain and consequence of his crime. The same crime was instructed, directed by Donald Trump, according to federal prosecutors, not me, not Michael. Federal prosecutors said he directed that crime. If Michael did the time, how could Donald Trump not at least be subject to the same legal consequences?

LEMON: As you know, I've invited you and Michael on to rebut whatever it is that you believe is false or inaccurate information about him. So, you're always -- and if you wanted to say what is what you believe it is now, you have every right to. Is there something that you want to say?

DAVIS: Well, my final comment is just about family and Michael and the life he's forced to lead. This is a terrible pain for his family. He has gone through an awful lot since he spoke the truth. He has never been contradicted. He's always been corroborated, including the attorney general of New York. I simply ask anybody commenting on Michael's credibility, give him a chance after ten years of saying on national television, I'm ashamed I did Donald Trump's dirty deeds. He owned what he did. Give him a chance, and certainly his family deserves a chance to be believed when he testifies under oath at this trial.

LEMON: It's not quite ten years. I mean, it's made -- this is six or seven years on T.V. saying --

DAVIS: No. His --

LEMON: Go on.

DAVIS: No. His work for Donald Trump was ten years and he admitted -- I'm sorry if I misstated that television, in national television, he said, I'm ashamed of what I did dirty deeds for Donald Trump. I am ashamed. I have no excuses. Now, I want to tell the truth. That was on February 28th 2018 -- 2019.

LEMON: Is Michael going to testify in the trial? Has there been an ask from the D.A.?

DAVIS: So, I can't discuss that. It would be revealing something I'm not allowed to say. But I certainly hope he will. As I said, he's been corroborated and substantiated, and this case has documents galore and other witnesses to substantiate everything that Michael Cohen will testify.

LEMON: I may have missed it, but my producers are telling me you just said that he's been asked to testify before. Did you say in the previous answer that he's been asked to testify -- he will testify?

DAVIS: He did testify before the grand jury twice. He did not take the Fifth Amendment, unlike Donald Trump.

LEMON: Okay. I thought he was going to be asked for this particular thing that's coming up. All right, if he's been asked to --

DAVIS: I just said I can't reveal that. Sorry.

LEMON: Lanny Davis, I appreciate you joining us in CNN This Morning. Thank you so much.

DAVIS: Thank you. Thank you very much.

HARLOW: It was interesting when you asked him, especially about I think you're trying to get at the intent, right? You said did he -- you know, did the former president know about any payments to -- not about Stormy Daniels, to AMI, The Enquirer or Pecker, right? LEMON: AMI or The Enquirer or any other entity, yes. But he said he mentioned Karen McDougal has been his answer. So, we'll see a lot. It's all going to be revealed today once the indictment --

HARLOW: Yes, just a few hours.

So, we are continuing this special live coverage of what has never happened before, a former president facing criminal charges in court right in this city.

We're also live in Nashville, where Democratic state lawmakers who joined the gun violence protests in the state capital are now feeling political heat, losing their committee assignments. Will they lose their jobs?

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[07:25:00]

HARLOW: Welcome back to CNN this morning. That is a live look at the Manhattan criminal courthouse. The sun is up here in New York City. And in just a few hours, something will happen that has never happened in the history of this country, a former president will be arraigned. President Trump will head downtown to that courthouse.

Kaitlan is reporting right outside of the courthouse waiting for any movement from Trump Tower. We know the former president has spent the night at Trump Tower after his arraignment. He will head right back to the airport. He will fly back to Palm Beach, Florida, to Mar-a-Lago. Our live coverage on that continues in a moment.

Meantime, though, we want to take you to Tennessee because chaos has erupted on the house floor there after Republicans introduced a resolution to expel three Democrats completely from the legislature. The resolution stemmed from a protest. Three Democratic lawmakers led last Thursday on the house floor as part of their larger protests for gun reform.

Now, those demonstrations were in response to the shooter killing three nine-year-old children and three adults at Coventry School in Nashville last week. Here's how one of those Democratic lawmakers described it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STATE REP. GLORIA JOHNSON (D-TN): The people are clearly with us. What we just saw in there was unbelievable. We took to the floor. We did speak without permission. We broke a house rule. We took to the floor to speak to the people to acknowledge the people that we're here and why they were here last Thursday, and that's why we spoke.

We were only on the mic for 15 to 20 seconds when they cut the mic and called a recess. The rest of the time we were in recess, and we only stayed up front for about four or five more minutes.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: Our Isabel Rosales is live in Nashville covering all of it this morning. Isabel, the question now is those three lawmakers have already lost their committee assignments, and now they may lose their seats entirely?

[07:30:06]