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Former President Trump to Attend Arraignment in New York City after Indictment by Manhattan Grand Jury; Former President Trump Adds New Member to Legal Team; Justice Department May be Wrapping Up Investigation into Former President Trump for Classified Documents Found at Mar-a-Lago. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired April 04, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Kaitlan, you've got some new reporting. What can you tell us?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, this may be something that new edition to the legal team doesn't want to see. But I am told that Trump is itching to speak about his indictment today. Obviously, he's not scheduled to do so right now while he is here in Manhattan. He is not expected to speak until he returns to Mar-a-Lago tonight where we do know he is going to speak to a ballroom with hundreds of his supporters, his surrogates, his allies who are expected to gather there tonight.

But I'm hearing from people that Trump really wants to talk about this today while he is here in New York. And if two weeks ago when he had initially claimed he was going to be arrested, which, obviously we know did not happen at the time, there had been this idea of maybe having Trump speak outside the courthouse after that arraignment happens in just a few hours from now. That idea was scuttled for security reasons. There were concerns about that and those considerations.

But now I am told that Trump is eager to speak. He hasn't done so since he arrived here in New York. We just saw him going in behind closed doors at Trump Tower last night. So it remains to be seen, because what we do know is that in hours Trump is going to be here in this building behind me. That is where he is going to be a turning himself in here in Manhattan, the first ex-president in our nation's history to face criminal charges.

Right now he is at Trump Tower, as Don was noting, preparing for this unprecedented arrangement, and we are expecting him to appear in court as a criminal defendant in the 2:00 p.m. hour today. After that, as we noted, Trump is going to return to Florida give a primetime speech at Mar-a-Lago scheduled for 8:15 p.m. eastern tonight.

Overnight, the judge ruled he will not allow TV cameras into the courtroom during the proceedings. There was opposition from the Trump legal team. But in his order, the judge did acknowledge that this arrangement has generated unparalleled public interest and media attention, saying "The populous rightly hungers for the most accurate and current information available. To suggest otherwise would be disingenuous."

CNN's senior crime and justice correspondent Shimon Prokupecz is here at the courthouse. Shimon, obviously, the New York Police Department has been gearing up for this for days now. We've seen barricades put in place. There are lines of reporters snaking around the courthouse waiting to get in. What are you seeing from over there at your vantage point?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: It's kind of surreal, Kaitlan. I've covered many cases at this courthouse, other courthouses. I've covered some of the biggest trials here, and this is such a different atmosphere than what I've ever, ever seen covering any cases here, from Harvey Weinstein to the DSK when he was arrested and ultimately dismissed. There's just something very different here because you don't get this kind of a presence for a criminal defendant that's about to enter court and be arraigned, and when you look around, it's just surreal.

Let me just show our viewers. Yes, you have all the security here, and we see more court officers now arriving. What's happening here is that a lot of this, the court staff, the court officers are now running security around the perimeter of this courthouse with all the barriers here, the NYPD is here as well. And then you've just got all these cameras. Everyone here just waiting for Donald Trump to arrive. Everyone just hoping to get that shot of him surrendering.

We expect him to surrender here in just a few hours. And he's going to be just up the street here. This is Hogan Place. This is where the district attorney's office is. He's going to walk through the doors. It's going to be brief, and he's going to go upstairs. And once he walks through those doors, he will be under arrest. He will be under arrest and taken into custody. And then the processing begins.

But this is just such a surreal atmosphere here right now, given the history of this event. And many of us here have covered cases here before, but nothing, nothing like this before. This kind of security, this kind of presence, this kind of media presence, and it's early, Kaitlan. It's still early, we're going to have several more hours before we see the former president here. And honestly, the security around here is just going to increase as the hours go by.

COLLINS: Yes, that's such a good point, Shimon. We're still several hours away from Trump actually arriving, and already you're seeing intense interest being generated here. Shimon, thank you.

Joining us now is David Schoen who was an attorney for Trump during his second impeachment trial. You often saw him there. David, good morning to you, and thank you for being here. I want to ask you about Trump adding a new defense attorney to his legal team specifically for this Manhattan investigation, just yesterday, one day before his arraignment. What do you make of him adding Todd Blanche to the team?

DAVID SCHOEN, ATTORNEY FOR STEVE BANNON: Well, that it's been in the works, quite frankly, behind the scenes quite a while that Blanche was going to come in. It comes from the firm Cadwalader, and that firm, quite frankly, would have a conflict in this case. The firm, Nicholas Gravante at that firm represented Mr. Weisselberg, who you may see as a witness in the case.

[08:05:05]

But so Blanche has left the firm, is now on his own. And that, I suppose, was a development because of this being retained in this case. But there was no surprise within the team about that.

COLLINS: What does it say to you about the significance, though, of how they're viewing this arrangement of what's going forward from today?

SCHOEN: Well, I'm sure they take it quite seriously. In fact, I know that they do is. It's very important for the team to be able to work together now. Yesterday, I saw a concerning article in the "New York Law Journal," which there -- well, it was concerning because Mr. Tacopina welcomed Mr. Blanche to the team. The article said Blanche would be the lead. But then Tacopina texted to the "New York Law Journal" that you can be sure that when the bell rings, he, Tacopina will be handling the major crosses and summations and so on. It's just going to be a process of learning to work together if the team stays as it is.

The former president has every right to change his team as he's going along. This is very early in the proceeding. This indictment came at a time when apparently it wasn't expected. And so it's going to have to evolve, I think.

COLLINS: Yes, it was viewed internally by some as a sidelining of Tacopina, who we've seen on television talking about this. But David, you think when it comes to this legal team that there are three motions they should file immediately. What are those?

SCHOEN: I think there are at least three motions. But I think after the arraignment, they should file a motion to dismiss based on the statute of limitations. It's a very interesting issue, too detailed, probably to go into here. And then I think they should file a motion to dismiss and or disqualify Mr. Bragg. It's unprecedented and should be unprecedented from an ethical standpoint to have run for office and campaigned specifically targeting the conviction of a particular American citizen, Donald Trump. One of the things that Mr. Bragg said in his campaign was, whoever has this job, are they going to convict Donald Trump? Convict him? There wasn't an investigation going at the time, no allegations against him. That's just dead wrong. It shows a conflict of interest, and I think that should be a motion.

And finally, I think that they should file a motion to recuse the judge, find out how this judge was assigned to the case. I don't believe in coincidences. This judge was on the Trump Organization case, the Bannon case, and now this case. And there is an historic practice in this district attorney's office, unique among all in the state for judge shopping through a process of picking a judge to supervise the grand jury, and then having that judge preside over the case, a handpicked judge. They swore about eight years ago that they had stopped the practice, but I think it needs to be investigated through a motion for recusal. COLLINS: Are you trying to argue, David, that this judge can't be

impartial here?

SCHOEN: I don't know that whether he can be impartial or not. I think it's the appearance of judge shopping that has to be explored. The American public has a great interest in every issue in this case, and everyone wants to make sure that there's a fair trial here. So that's what I think. I think the appearance of partiality or impartiality are key, important factors in the case.

COLLINS: I do think it's fair to say that Trump's legal team, they've done judge shopping, as the phrase that you used, especially when it came to the documents investigation. We saw what happened there in Florida. You can't say that that's something that Trump's own legal team has not weighed where they're going and which judge they'd be appearing before, right?

SCHOEN: It might be that in any case that a party picks a forum. But in this case with all of the judges in this court, it's remarkable that Judge Merchan sits on this case and those other cases. They're not related cases, and therefore I think it has to be explored. A federal judge said about eight years ago that if this practice is continuing, it may give rise to a federal violation. This practice was challenged in state court, and the lawyers lost who challenged it. But when it went to federal court, a federal judge suggested this may be a constitutional problem. It just has to be investigated.

COLLINS: I'll just note Trump's own attorney literally told me on Friday that they do believe this judge and they do believe he will be fair here. David Schoen, thank you so much. I do want to note that the district attorney that David was just talking about there, Alvin Bragg, is arriving here at the courthouse in New York. Of course, one of the most notable days of his time as the district attorney here in Manhattan. And as Shimon has been reporting here on CNN, there has been an increased security presence around the district attorney himself. Obviously, he has been the target of attacks from Trump and his allies and his advisers, who have been saying that they believe this is a political prosecution that is underway. Bragg has pushed back on that. And of course, he has made this decision, though, and there are major questions about it. Certainly, Don a notable day for Alvin Bragg as he is arriving here at the courthouse in lower Manhattan.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Especially Donald Trump saying overnight that Bragg should indict himself. Kaitlan, as he was saying, as Schoen was mentioning, he said, recuse, the judge should recuse.

[08:10:02]

I wrote that down, question mark. A perfect, perfect follow up to him there, pointing out, saying that wait, what are you saying? He's saying that shouldn't be impartial. That was surprising.

HARLOW: Well, yes, and the point about judge shopping or forum shopping is that that's been done a number of times by the Trump administration and the Trump team. It was a great interview, Kaitlan. LEMON: Kaitlan, we're going to check back as we're going to talk about another case involving former President Donald Trump. New signs this morning that the Justice Department may be nearing the end of its investigation of Trump's handling of classified documents at Mar-a- Lago. Special counsel prosecutors securing more evidence for the grand jury. It could show Trump's intent to keep classified records after he left the White House and that he knew he still had records after the DOJ demanded the return, that he return them last May. I want to check in now, CNN's Katelyn Polantz joins us. Good morning. Good morning, Katelyn. What is included in the evidence.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, well, there's a lot that has been subpoenaed recently by the Justice Department, the special counsel operating out of Washington. Their work does not stop and it is not stopping just because of this New York case against Donald Trump. They are now gathering and nailing down things like notes, texts, emails, photographs, documents from Donald Trump's assistant, Molly Michael, about what he was doing, who he was meeting with across a really crucial amount of time in Mar-a-Lago when he was is there as they're looking into the possible mishandling of classified documents, and also the potential that Donald Trump was trying to obstruct the Justice Department from getting all of those documents back.

And the other thing. The reason why this story, we keep hearing about subpoenas in this Mar-a-Lago investigation over and over again for the course of this investigation, but the reason why this is different now is that it's quite clear that the prosecutors are nailing down details that they may already know and how have, including not only are they asking for documents being to be turned over, they're subpoenaing people into the grand jury that they spoke with before, that the FBI interviewed a year ago. Now they're locking in that testimony into the grand jury in what signals -- what could be something leading up to a potential set of charges or maybe a decision at the Justice Department whether to bring charges in this case.

HARLOW: And that's one of the things that was striking to me about your reporting is that you guys noted that this often can signal the conclusion of an investigation. But the crux here, right, that they would need this evidence to point to is intent, right. To succeed on an obstruction charge, they would need it all to point to intent to hinder or block an investigation.

POLANTZ: Right absolutely. And one of the things, too Poppy and Don, that is so interesting about this is that we're learning from our sources about these subpoenas where they're nailing down evidence from witnesses. But we also know what the Justice Department has been doing to secure evidence from Donald Trump's defense attorney, Evan Corcoran himself. And that, from what we understand, may be separate from this pursuit where they're securing the evidence from these other witnesses. Evan Corcoran, we know that the Justice Department believes, was being used by Donald Trump to potentially commit a crime. And they got him to turn over records. They got him back in before the grand jury to testify.

And one of the things I am also hearing from sources is that the grand jury activity doesn't stop with Evan Corcoran and with these recent subpoenas. There's going to be a steady clip of people either coming in or turning things over in the coming weeks. And the thing that puts this all together is that this is all about Donald Trump. This is about what he did, what he saw, what he knew, and what he decided to do with those documents once the Justice Department said you need to turn them back over. Don and Poppy?

HARLOW: Not just about lawyers moving boxes or going through boxes. What did the former president do after a subpoena?

POLANTZ: Exactly.

HARLOW: Thanks, Katelyn.

LEMON: Katelyn, thank you so much.

NASA astronauts set to head to the moon.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REID WISEMAN, MISSION COMMANDER, ARTEMIS II: We are humans. We are built to explore. When you go out and do something that pushes the boundaries, you always learn things that you didn't expect to learn. And we will have breakthroughs left and right. It's going to be phenomenal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: To the moon -- that's a reference to "The Honeymooners," and to this. But before that, right, astronaut Reid Wiseman lands on CNN this morning, there he is, on the other side of the break.

HARLOW: Love that.

(LAUGHTER)

[08:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. So, look at that those faces flying to the moon. Those faces will be flying to the moon. NASA has named the four astronauts who will take part in the Artemis II moon mission the crew includes three Americans, Commander Reid Wiseman, pilot Victor Glover, and Mission Specialists Christina Hammock Koch, and one Canadian Mission Specialist Jeremy Hansen. There they are all up behind me. The mission launches in 2024 and it will be the first time in more than five decades and humans will fly around the moon. So, joining us now, we are so grateful to have, here is the mission commander Reid Wiseman. Reid, a commander I should say congratulations, thank you so much. How are you feeling?

REID WISEMAN, MISSION COMMANDER, ARTEMIS II: Thank you, I really were feeling overwhelmed. Yesterday was an absolutely magnificent day. We got to go see the basketball finals in downtown Houston, got a little bit of rest and we're back out of this morning. But the entire crew, Victor Glover, Christina Koch and Jeremy Hansen. We were back at it early this morning. We're doing great.

LEMON: Is this true? Apparently, you had missed the meeting about the crew assignments because you were at a doctor's appointment. How did you find? How did you find out?

WISEMAN: So, yes, that story got a lot of traction yesterday. But around the end of my doctor's appointment, I said goodbye to the doctor. And I quickly texted the chief astronaut Joe Acaba to see if there's still any time left in the meeting because it was scheduled for an hour. And I had about 10 minutes left in that hour. And he said yes, sure, go ahead and video chat in, so, I got on Microsoft Teams, and called in and I knew as soon as the video came up, but I saw not only my boss, but my boss's boss, and then sitting next to them was Christina Koch. Victor Glover and I was like, oh my gosh, I think I just missed my assignment for the Artemis II crew. It was not -- it was not the best showing for the crew, but it went -- it went OK.

LEMON: All right, there was saying, oh, this guy is not interested, he's not a team player. But you're like, hey, I had to go to the doctor. Listen, this is historic, because you're going to be travelling with the first Canadian, the first woman, the first person of color ever to travel around the moon. That is quite an accomplishment, and it speaks to, you know, the ingenuity of what you guys do in America, I have to say.

[08:20:23]

Wiseman: I couldn't agree more, I just need to highlight right now. We have an awesome diverse crew of astronauts. We have an international crew of astronauts here at the Johnson Space Centre in Houston. You could grab any four of us right now and go do this mission. And when you look at people like Christina, Victor and Jeremy, all I ask is that people just go look at their accomplishments and their lives. Because they far surpass anything I've ever dreamed of doing. These are professional operators, they're extremely experienced, and we are we're all great friends. And we are ready to go accomplish this mission once -- one tiny piece and the entire Artemis architecture. It's going to be really fun.

LEMON: Just I mean, on a personal note, what does this mean to you and your family and the families of your crewmates?

WISEMAN: I think the word that first came into my mind when you asked that question was just pride. We're all hard workers, we really want to go out there and do something great for humanity, in a time of a lot of division in our country and in our world. You know, human spaceflight is one unifying piece, we would love to just motivate our youth right now, not by words, but by action. And go out around the moon set the stage for humans walking on the moon again and then looking onward to Mars. I think when you go out and set your sights big, you motivate a lot of people that you didn't expect to, you get a lot of new inventions, you get a lot of growth in industry. We're seeing it all around Houston right now with private space. It's the business is booming. So, that's really what I feel I feel pride.

LEMON: That OK, and you should -- the goal is to go to Mars within 20 years. You're a young man, do you want to go?

WISEMAN: I would definitely go. But I really do think that that is going to go to that generation of kids that are in middle school, junior high school right now, I think they are going to be at the front lines. I think what my generation, what our generation this Artemis generation is going to be focused on is getting off of planet Earth, learning how to live, and work sustainably on the lunar surface in deep space. And then, onward to Mars we go.

LEMON: Congratulations, Commander, this is really amazing. You should be proud.

WISEMAN: Thank you.

LEMON: Thank you for appearing. We certainly appreciate it.

WISEMAN: Thank you, it's great to talk to you.

LEMON: Thank you, you as well. You know, Poppy, I am from -- we are from, you know, the shuttle generation.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

LEMON: Right? Were -- we were just talking. It's hard to believe that it has been, you know, 50 years since we have gone to the moon, it just --

HARLOW: Yes.

LEMON: -- kind of assume like, oh, we've been there but I was doing the last show that I did, the night show. And my producer said, you know, we hadn't been to the moon since the 70s. And I said what?

HARLOW: Really? Right.

LEMON: That doesn't seem right.

HARLOW: And I -- first of all, I love that interview. And I love the doctor's appointment. But I also love the fact that he said, you know, we're sort of paving the way.

LEMON: He's listening by the way, he's smiling.

HARLOW: Oh, good. I loved him, his kid -- our kids' generation, right? To be the next one to carry it on to take --

LEMON: There he is.

HARLOW: -- this mission, to take this mission all the way to Mars. So, we're really proud of what they're going to do for our kids --

LEMON: Yes, right.

HARLOW: -- generation.

LEMON: Right, we got to run but look at that big smile, Reid Wiseman. Wiseman, everyone. Thank you, Reid. Congratulations, you guys be safe, have a great time.

HARLOW: Yes.

WISEMAN: Thank you. Great talking to you.

LEMON: Me too.

HARLOW: Thanks, Reid.

LEMON: Happy trip.

HARLOW: Alright, also the other big news here on planet Earth. Today, Donald Trump becomes the first U.S. President to be arraigned on criminal charges. We have new reporting on what he's planning to do at the courthouse just ahead.

LEMON: And Disney CEO calling Ron DeSantis anti-business after the Florida Governor tried to strip the company of some of its power over the land around Disney World. How DeSantis is fighting back, that's next.

[08:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: In just a few hours from now, former President Trump is going to become the first U.S. President to ever be arraigned on criminal charges. That will happen here in New York as we are getting new reporting about Trump's mindset and whether or not we're going to hear from Trump while he is here. CNN's Kara Scanell joins me back here this morning as we were outside 100 center street where Trump will actually be booked and arraigned. And a few hours from now, I had heard that Trump wanted to speak the kind of an itching to make his case publicly about this indictment. We always want to speak tonight, but now you're hearing that he is actually going to be speaking or he's expected to do so inside that courthouse today.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, I've talked to one of his attorneys Chris Kise, who said he met with the Former President and as part of his legal team last night, they're planning to meet again this morning. But he said the Former President is expected to talk to the cameras when he's heading through that hallway in that brief walk into the courtroom before his arraignment. And he's also, expect to see something after and he said he doesn't know what he's going to say.

But, you know, I think we've heard a lot of the President saying that this is, you know, political prosecution. He's called it a witch hunt. So, it might be something along that (INAUDIBLE). He also said that he expects Donald Trump to enter his own plea of not guilty. He doesn't think it will go through and attorney. You know, of course, everything can change in the moment. But that is the thinking heading into this today. There is another meeting with the legal team this morning. But that's kind of where their heads up.

COLLINS: That's really notable. Trump himself is going to be the one when the judge asks, how do you plea? He'll say not guilty.

SCANELL: Yes, I mean, that's at least the plan as of now. That's what he says Trump wants to do. I mean, we'll see how things play out. You know, the lawyers could, I mean, that's a fairly basic thing for defendant to do that. As far as what he says outside, we'll see what, you know, there's a lot of time between now and then of what his lawyers may advise him. But he's intending to or at least he wants to.

COLLINS: Yes, and just for those at home keeping track of the Trump attorney organization chart. Chris Kise is one of Trumps attorneys, but he talked to you about this new attorney Todd Blanche, that he was just added to the legal team for this probe specifically yesterday. What does it mean for Joe Tacopina and the other attorney that we've seen publicly talking about this case?

SCANELL: Well, there was a lot of questions from your interview with Tim Parlatore for the other attorney about whether Tacopina has a conflict of interest here. And I asked, Kise, you know, has Tacopina been sidelined?

[08:30:00]