Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

Trump Facing 34 Felony Counts in Hush Money Scheme; Trump Pleads Not Guilty, Lashes Out at New York and Georgia Investigations; U.S. Park Police Release Video Showing Shooting of Black Teen. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired April 05, 2023 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[07:00:04]

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: The only crime that I have committed is to furiously defends our nation from those who seek to destroy it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's frustrated. He's upset. But I'll tell you what, he's motivated.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We cannot and will not normalize serious criminal conduct.

TRUMP: I have a Trump-hating judge with a Trump-hating wife and family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Speaking of someone who very strongly does not want Donald Trump to get the Republican presidential nomination, I'm extraordinarily distressed by this document. I think this is even weaker than I feared it would be.

JOE TACOPINA, DONALD TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: A motion to dismiss is coming on several grounds. This case won't see a jury, in my opinion.

MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: No one is above the law, and that includes Donald J. Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: The reaction to yesterday has really been something.

LEMON: Yes. How do you really put this into context? I'm not sure if we know at this point. I think there's a lot more that's going to play out, but certainly historic, unprecedented, stunning.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: I think one of the problems for the American people, for everyone right now, is the fact that they there is a lot that they don't know, keeping what's the underlying crime that makes this -- makes 34 counts of felony, that's not in here, right? And so transparency is of the utmost importance in this moment, and we don't know one of the big things.

LEMON: But we should also not downplaying -- I think we are, but I think we should point out that the images coming out of 100 Centre Street yesterday --

HARLOW: You were there.

LEMON: But the pictures -- if we have the photograph to show the president, and, Kaitlan, you know, you were commenting on this, it was stunning to see him, to show the former president in court sitting behind a defendant's table in custody, under arrest, there it is, it is a stunning image to see and the expression on his face, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Yes, it definitely is, to go from seeing him at the White House as president, to see him entering the Manhattan criminal court building yesterday was really something.

LEMON: To be in the courtroom.

HARLOW: What was it like in the building? I was listening to your coverage. But what was it like to be in there as he left?

COLLINS: So, we were in the hallway, the 15th floor, you know, the building, and we were on the 15th floor waiting for him to come in, seeing if he was going to speak to reporters. Obviously, he did not. But just remarkable to see him come in. Obviously, a very angry expression, as you can see from the video that we got of him walking in, walking into that room with his attorneys.

HARLOW: Yes.

LEMON: And then not answering any questions as the first step. It is the first time that that I know of that Donald Trump has been shy in front of a camera or a microphone. He didn't want to take any questions as he walked through the door.

COLLINS: That's the image of him leaving. He did pause for a moment, which made me think he was going to take questions for a moment.

LEMON: He paused for a moment. What? Did you think he was going to say something?

COLLINS: See. You pause there. I don't know if you can hear a familiar voice shouting in the background.

LEMON: Is that you?

HARLOW: Yes we can.

LEMON: Yes, but that was, you know, playing out on every single network yesterday and we got in so early. The newspapers weren't even here yet, and I'm sure it's the image on every single paper in the country.

HARLOW: Yes. And, look, and the former president lashing out at the criminal charges against him, right? He did speak a lot last night, just hours after his arrest in New York City. He gave this defiant primetime speech right when he returned home to Mar-a-Lago and Southern Florida. He went on to slam the judge and the district attorney. He cast himself as a political victim of persecution.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I never thought anything like this could happen in America. I never thought it could happen.

This fake case was brought only to interfere with the upcoming 2024 election, and it should be dropped immediately.

I have a Trump-hating judge, with a Trump-hating wife and family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So, sources tell CNN Trump was upset after the arraignment and surrounded himself with his admirers at Mar-a-Lago. He barely spoke when he was in court. He did plead himself not guilty to those 34 felony counts of falsifying business records.

Prosecutors say they orchestrated a hush money scheme to cover up alleged affairs with an adult film actress and a playboy model.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: President Trump, will you come speak to us, President Trump?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Trump looked somber. He did not speak to reporters at the courthouse. His next court hearing is not until December, about two months, we should note, before the Iowa caucuses.

Yes. So, not a lot of words from Trump yesterday, he did utter about fewer than a dozen when he was inside that courtroom. He did speak a lot last night, where Kristen Holmes is in West Palm Beach, Florida near his Mar-a-Lago resort.

Kristen, I mean, obviously we had an idea of what that would be, what that speech would look like. It was actually shorter than a lot of his rally speeches. But what were your main takeaways when it came to not only what he what he was saying about the charges from yesterday but also attacking the judge after the judge specifically asked them not to attack people like the judge?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kaitlan, as you know, it's not surprising.

[07:05:00]

He is going to say what he wants to say, and it was particularly the crowd that he was saying it to. He was not in front of a mixed crowd. He was in front of MAGA supporters. There were members of Bikers for Trump, Club 45, there were -- some of his staunchest allies were there, Matt Gaetz, Marjorie Taylor Greene. Actually, he had dinner with them afterwards. He surrounded himself by all of these admirers. I'm told that's because he was upset after this emotional day.

And as you said he did not only just lash out of the district attorney and at the judge, he also talked about all of the investigations into him. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I got a local racist Democrat district attorney in Atlanta, who is doing everything in her power to indict me over an absolutely perfect phone call.

This fake case was brought only to interfere with the upcoming 2024 election and it should be dropped immediately.

This lunatic special prosecutor named, Jack Smith, I wonder what it was prior to a change, who others of his ilk say he is even worse than they are, is only looking at Trump, yet Joe Biden took massive amounts more documents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: And we don't need to break every single one of those claims down, but clearly here, he's not going after the substance of all these cases. He's attacking Jack Smith, saying that he might have had a different name, obviously to laughter there. He's going after the district attorneys. And that is the game plan here. This is all going to be a political fight. They are looking at this through the 2024 lens.

And as we continue to note, because I just don't think we can say this enough, not only did Trump bring his own videographer with him on the plane to get the behind the scenes look at this arraignment, they also, while he was in arraignment, issued a fundraising email with a mock-up, a manufactured image of his mug shot to raise money. So, they are all in on this as a political fighting chip as they go into 2024.

COLLINS: Yes, certainly. And the judge seemed to indicate, you know, there could be a gag order placed here, but obviously the fact that he is a presidential candidate campaigning, that plays a big factor into all of this. Kristen Holmes in Palm Beach, Florida, thank you.

LEMON: lots more to discuss, and I'm sure you're going to be interested in this because with more perspective now, I want to bring in Michael Rothfeld. He is a Pulitzer Prize-winning, his work helped to trigger this whole investigation. And so we're so glad to have him. He is also the author of The Fixers, The Bottom Feeders, Crooked Lawyers, Gossip Mongers and Porn Stars Who Created the 45th President.

We're so happy that you're here. Thank you for doing this because let's start with the counts, right? There are 34 of these counts of falsifying business records in the first degree. After working on this story for years, did you think that this day would ever come?

MICHAEL ROTHFELD, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Actually, no, because this you know the federal authorities were investigating this. They charged Michael Cohen. Donald Trump was president. He couldn't be charged. And then you know, after he left office, it did not seem like it was going to happen. And then Alvin Bragg resuscitated the case. So, I didn't think it was going to happen.

LEMON: And in the context that we have now related to the invoices, relates to the checks to Cohen, relate to Cohen, relates to the ledger entries, did you know specifically or have some idea where this might go?

ROTHFELD: Well, as my colleagues at The Times were reporting on what the grand jury was going to indict him for and what the D.A. was going to charge him with, we did know that it was going to be falsifying business records and all of this, this scheme to repay Cohen and disguise the repayments for the Stormy Daniels payment as legal fees, that was known from the beginning. So --

LEMON: Let's go to them, the punishment, there it is right there, three hush money cases in the Trump indictment, that's Karen McDougal. But this is a check that you were referencing. Now, these are -- this is the evidence here, right?

ROTHFELD: Right. And you can see that, you know, Donald Trump signs these checks himself. I mean, his signature is eligible. Some of the checks were signed by other people. I believe Allen Weisselberg, his CFO, may have signed some of them or Donald Trump Jr. But some of these, Michael Cohen says, were signed when Trump was in the White House.

LEMON: There are people who are saying, well, you know, even with this, the case isn't strong and what have you, does that matter at this point? Because it does show that the former president was involved, that Weisselberg was involved in and there were others who were involved in this.

ROTHFELD: Yes. I mean, falsifying business records is a pretty common charge in New York State, and, clearly, Michael Cohen did not perform legal fees. He paid Stormy Daniels off and he was repaid with these sort of phony checks for legal fees. So, that that seems like a pretty straightforward case. The question is, to elevate this to a felony in New York State, you have to show that he had the intent to conceal another crime. And that crime, Alvin Bragg yesterday suggested it could be a state or federal election law violation, some kind of a tax charge.

[07:10:05]

But, you know, he didn't specify that and I think he just has to show that he had the intent to do that.

LEMON: Well, let's talk about what's in the indictment because the indictment does not name the alleged crimes Trump was trying to conceal, but Bragg at his press conference referred to violating state election law. Did this surprise you? ROTHFELD: No, because, I mean, that -- while the state or federal election law, we don't really know exactly what might be said at the trial, but the whole purpose of this alleged scheme was to influence the 2016 election for Donald Trump and to silence these women, Karen McDougal and Stormy Daniels.

The indictment itself only deals with the Stormy Daniels repayment, but in this accompanying statement of facts, Alvin Bragg lays out this larger scheme of hush money payments to help Donald Trump during the 2016 election.

LEMON: Yes. And these are -- this is a -- these are all the three people who are right to be involved in that.

ROTHFELD: That's right.

LEMON: We understand what happened with Stormy Daniels. That was $130,000. This is $150,000.

ROTHFELD: Right.

LEMON: But go on and explain this, because the doorman, I think people are a bit confused about that.

ROTHFELD: Right. Well, so, Trump is alleged to have conspired with David Pecker, who ran The National Enquirer, and the doorman, Dino -- his name is Dino Sejuden (ph), he came to The Enquirer with a story of Trump having a love child, which he apparently did not have. But in order to prevent the doorman, he used to work at Trump Tower, from talking about this during the election, the Enquirer paid him $30,000, and he had to remain quiet.

LEMON: Let me -- just before we go, as you have been watching all the coverage in the analysis here, is there something that we're missing when people are saying, it's not a strong case? I don't understand, they're not, they're not listing an underlying crime? Are we missing anything with this? What would you like to point out?

ROTHFELD: Again, just that this is a very common charge in New York State. Many people are charged with falsifying business records. And so what the D.A. has said is that, you know, Donald Trump is no different than them. I mean, it doesn't -- It's not really that unusual except for the fact that he was the president of the United States and no former president has been charged before. But, you know, that isn't -- that doesn't necessarily make him immune to prosecution.

LEMON: Michael, thank you. I appreciate you joining us, Michael Rothfeld. Poppy?

HARLOW: All right. That was helpful. Thank you, guys.

Joining us now, CNN Political Commentator and Political Anchor for Spectrum News Errol Louis and CNN Legal Analyst and former Manhattan Chief Assistant District Attorney Karen Friedman Agnifilo. Thank you both for being here. Karen, let me just start with you. Your piece in The Times this morning with Norm Eisen is really interesting. The headline is, we finally know the case against Trump, and it's strong. That's a different position than even some of Trump's most vehement opponents who say this is weak. I think we can agree it's incomplete, right, because we don't know what that underlying crime is that Bragg is pointing to. But why do you think it's so strong?

KAREN FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think it's strong because in addition to the indictment that was filed, they also filed a statement of facts, which --

HARLOW: 13 pages.

AGNIFILO: Yes, 13 pages of a statement of facts, which really details the evidence and the charges and the theory of the case against him.

And it's clear that they have a lot of corroboration here. You've got not just the word of Michael Cohen. You've got Michael Cohen, you've got David Pecker, who was the CEO of AMI that owned The National Enquirer, and they had a conspiracy, the three of them, to catch and kill negative stories during the time of the presidential election. And they have proof. They have emails, text messages, recordings. And so -- and the timing really shows that that's the case.

And so I think when you put it all together from an evidentiary purpose, I think it's a very strong case that, of course, that there are legal arguments that can be made and challenges by the defense, and we haven't seen the witnesses testify under oath and be cross- examined yet, but that's typical of every case. Just from a from what we know now, standpoint, it's certainly a strong as any other case that gets brought in state courts in New York.

COLLINS: and I think it's important what you note that the conviction for the Trump Organization for Allen Weisselberg, who was the chief financial officer for the Trump Organization, that's who Trump keeps referencing, were business falsification were parts of those charges and those convictions.

Trump keeps attacking the judge here, even though the judge asked both sides yesterday not to do that. Trump went after him last night as this Trump-hating judge. You know Judge Merchan. What is your view of how he's going to handle this? How does he handle Trump going after him like he did.

AGNIFILO: So, Judge Merchan is a very fair-minded judge. He's known as judge's judge. You know, he's not a prosecution judge or a defense judge. He really calls balls and strikes and really tries to maintain the integrity of the courtroom and the proceeding.

[07:15:06]

He's certainly a professional, and so he's not going to take any attacks against him or his family and then allow that to color his judgment in court because he is a true professional. That being said, those types of attacks could potentially taint a future jury pool and the integrity of the process. And that's the thing the judge is not going to stand for. And if Trump doesn't rein it in, I think the judge -- you will see the judge singing a different tune.

LEMON: A gag order, do you think?

AGNIFILO: I think a gag order is tricky because he's -- Mr. Trump is running for president. And in addition to normal First Amendment rights, there are there are -- it's like a double First Amendment right because he's running for public office.

HARLOW: This is what the judge said yesterday.

AGNIFILO: Yes. It's really hard to issue a gag order in this case. But certainly it's in the cards if it starts to taint the proceeding.

LEMON: Errol, you wrote, you know, basically, don't underestimate Alvin Bragg. But then now, you have all this criticism even after the indictment has been unsealed, that, oh, this doesn't seem like a strong case, and they're not showing any underlying crime here. So, what is your assessment mow?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, it's interesting. It's kind of peculiar. Some people seem disappointed that the crimes weren't more lurid. They seem disappointed that there wasn't more drama for them, you know, almost personally.

LEMON: (INAUDIBLE) who it is, do you think?

LOUIS: You know, I'm not sure what it is. I think there may be something about the Trump effect, right, that this is like the season opener, right? This is all drama, this is all television, this is all Hollywood, and that, of course, is what he was. But at the same time, you know, we have a very important sort of commercial docket. This is what the district attorney was saying at his press conference yesterday that, you know, he's going after 117 people just in the last year around falsification of business records. It may not matter outside of Manhattan, but it matters a lot in Manhattan. This is a big part of what this office does.

And so, you know, for Donald Trump to sort of, say, well, well, this doesn't matter, this is politically motivated, he's going to say that, he's the defendant. For others, I'm a little baffled by this to say this doesn't matter whether or not it was a crime. And it's like, well, it seems to matter to the grand jury. It matters to the prosecutor. I think Alvin Bragg made a compelling case that it matters because Manhattan in particular is the business center of the world and the transactions have got to be kept straight. There are other jurisdictions that are somewhat like that. You go to chance record in Delaware. They take a lot of these things very seriously.

So, yes, it's --

HARLOW: (INAUDIBLE) companies are incorporated there. LOUIS: It's a real case. There's a real defendant. There's a real problem here. And if people think that, you know -- I mean, by the way, this is not the first time that Donald Trump has been accused of cheating in relationship to his campaign. I mean, the Trump Foundation case, and that his charitable foundation had to be dissolved. They've done a fundraiser and spent millions of dollars and they admitted to this ultimately before they dissolve the foundation. They use part of the money for his 2016 campaign. And it happened to be done by the same district attorney's office that Alvin Bragg came -- attorney general's office that Alvin Bragg came out of.

So, this is this is sort of a pattern. I think we're going to hear more of this as it develops. But, again, for people who are disappointed, I don't know if the tardiness of the crime or the smallness of it in some respect is anybody's fault except the people who are engaged today.

HARLOW: Can you help us understand two quick things, why now, when Cy Vance didn't pursue it, then Alvin Bragg last year in pursuance, so why now, because I don't think we learned that from the indictment? And then, secondly, why would Bragg not put everything on the table? Why wouldn't you tell us what makes these felonies?

AGNIFILO: So, I'm going to start with the second question first. It's funny, when I read this, I feel he did tell us.

HARLOW: What did he tell us?

AGNIFILO: He told us that the participants violated election laws and that they mischaracterized these payments for tax purposes. And that tells us everything we need to know about what the crimes are, what the criminal intent was because Alvin Bragg doesn't have to prove which crime at the end of the day. The crime doesn't even have to be committed or started or just intended, and that they meaning they meant to commit a crime or conceal a crime. And so I feel like he told us everything we needed to know in the statement of facts.

LEMON: Can I jump in? Because I think the crux of it, I was saying to Poppy earlier, I said, I believe they are telling us, especially on page seven, where he talks about the four $120,000 to Michael Cohen. It seems that they were upping the amount that they were paying him so that he could report it as income, and that would be a violation of the tax code. Whether or not he did it, he reported it, the intent was there for them to that it was fraudulent. Am I correct in that?

AGNIFILO: Absolutely correct. And an analogy that I think is easy to understand is in the context of a burglary. A burglary is a trespass, which is a misdemeanor, right? You enter and remain unlawfully somewhere. But what makes it a crime -- I'm sorry, a felony is if you intended to commit a crime therein.

[07:20:05]

And so somebody can walk into your apartment and get stopped and arrested right there before they committed. A prosecutor has to prove that they went in there to commit a crime. You don't know which one it is. They could -- it could have been a sexual assault. It could have been a violent crime. It could have been to take something.

And you'll look at the surrounding evidence. Did he have a burglar's tools or did he have a knife? You look at the surrounding evidence and you make an argument to the jury, and the jury just has to say, oh, yes, there was criminal intent there. He wasn't going in to sleep, right? So, that's what bumps it from a misdemeanor to a felony. This is not a foreign concept in state court, and I don't think that they're going to have a problem proving that if the evidence holds up at trial.

And to answer your other question, why now, the statute of limitations is about to run in May and the reason it wasn't brought before, Cy Vance spoke over the weekend that the Southern District asked Cy Vance to stand down. They had it in hand. And so he, Cy Vance, went with a different case that was bigger and more voluminous. And that's why there's this pause.

HARLOW: Yes. But Bragg walked away from it about a year ago to the chagrin of some of his prosecutors who quit as a result, partially.

AGNIFILO: Yes. What he walked away from what was presenting the bigger valuation of assets case at that time. And so all he wanted was more time to review it. And when he did, this is the one that had legs and it's going to expire, the statute of limitations, in a month, so it was now or never for this case.

COLLINS: It's such important context and Bragg did say yesterday at that press conference that he got new information even since this investigation. We didn't know publicly at least about David Pecker being invited to the White House to be thanked for how he helped Trump during the campaign. Unfortunately, we're out of time. Errol, Karen, thank you both. You have amazing perspective on this. So, I really appreciate your insight.

AGNIFILO: Thank you.

COLLINS: Also this morning, newly released video shows the moment an officer jumped in the back seat of a car and shot and killed a teenager as he sped off. The deadly encounter in Washington, D.C., we will tell you next.

HARLOW: Thank you guys.

LEMON: And right now, we're keeping our eye on severe weather happening across the Midwest and south, same areas hit by strong storms just yesterday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:25:00]

LEMON: So, we have something new for you this morning, newly released body cam footage shows a deadly police shooting of a black teen inside a car happened in D.C. It was last month when officers responding to a suspicious vehicle near a federal park. I want to bring in now our correspondent, Sunlen Serfaty, has been -- has seen this video and she joins us now. Good morning to you, Sunlen. Break down this video for us, please.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Yes, don. This is certainly very disturbing. New video was just released by the U.S. Parks Police and the D.C. Metropolitan Police, and it reveals some additional details about a shooting that happened here in D.C. on the morning of March 19th.

Now, this is body cam footage from officers from both of the agencies who responded to this incident, and, again, the video that we're about to play is very disturbing.

Now, police say that the vehicle that you see here, that white vehicle, was believed to be stolen. And inside was 17-year-old Delanio Martin (ph). Now, police say he was asleep in the parked car. The video shows, as you can see here, police, in the moments beforehand discussing ways to get into the car to arrest him. And at one point, an officer opens the backdoor to get in while another officer opens the front driver door.

Now, the footage shows the car suddenly drive off and one of the Park Police officers is still in the backseat of the car and yells for him to stop. There's a tussle and then these are the moments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police, don't move.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't move.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't move.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't move.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop. Stop, man, just let me out. Stop. Stop or I'll shoot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: Now, that is the moment when the video shows the officer fired numerous shots. The car seconds later crashes into a nearby home. And the video shows police pulling Martin afterwards out to try to revive him with CPR. Now, they were unsuccessful. Police say he died at the scene. Important to note here, the Parks Police says there is an investigation into the incident. It's being handled by the Metropolitan Police and they say also being reviewed by the U.S. attorney's office here in D.C.

Now, none of the officers involved have been identified by either agency and the Parks Police, Don, would not confirm the status of the officer who shot Martin.

Now, meantime, the family is really pushing for the officer here to be identified, prosecuted and they want him fired. Don? LEMON: Not the end of this. We will definitely hear more. Thank you, Sunlen, I appreciate that.

HARLOW: Well, investigators in Central Florida are seeking the public's help in solving the shooting deaths of three teenagers in the state. Their bodies were found in three different locations over three days last week. The Marion County sheriff says he believes that killings are connected but does not believe there is a serial killer on the loose.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF BILLY WOODS, MARION COUNTY, FLORIDA: All of our victims are known or have -- were known to know each other and we're together leading up to the incident itself.

There's a possibility of hybrid gangs and that's about it. I can't tell you who's associated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Let's go to our Carlos Suarez live in Miami. Three teenagers in three days, what's the latest?

CARLOS SUAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Poppy, good morning. So, the Marion County Sheriff's Office says they've got 15 detectives working this case. As you mentioned, these three bodies were found last week, Thursday Friday and Saturday in Marion County. That's about an hour- and-a-half drive north of Orlando.

[07:30:02]

The first victim was identified as 16-year-old Layla Silvernail. Her body was found on the side of a road.