Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

Pence Won't Appeal Judges' Order to Testify to Special Counsel; Tennessee Legislature to Vote on Expelling 3 Dems Over Gun Protest; Israeli Police Storm Al-Aqsa Mosque for Second Time; Chinese Warships Detected Near Taiwan after Tsai's Visit to U.S.; Putin: Relations Between Russia and U.S. in 'Deep Crisis'. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired April 06, 2023 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. We're so glad you're with us. Hi, Don. Hi Kaitlan.

[06:00:18]

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: You're not with us.

HARLOW: I miss you.

LEMON: You're glad they're with us. But not you.

HARLOW: I'm with you in spirit in a beautiful, balmy Atlanta. We're here for an interview on assignment that we'll talk about a little bit later. But there is a lot going on this morning. So let's get started with five things to know for this Thursday, April 6.

Former vice president, Mike Pence, cleared to testify in the Justice Department's January 6th investigation. Pence announced he will not appeal a judge's order.

LEMON: And San Francisco Police investigating the stabbing death of Cash App founder Bob Lee. No suspect has been named.

Also today, the Tennessee House is planning a vote to expel three of its Democratic members. Republicans want them out for violating House rules during a gun reform protest.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Also, Israeli forces raiding Jerusalem's Al-Aqsa Mosque for a second time just hours apart, actually. Palestinian officials report that at least six people have been injured.

And set to tee off. The Master's are playing host to golf's biggest stars, as many are heading to Augusta to today to get a glimpse of Tiger Woods.

LEMON: Is that where Poppy is?

COLLINS: CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

LEMON: Poppy, you're really going to the Master's, aren't you? That's why you're there.

HARLOW: I heard you. I wish. I've never been to the Master's, but maybe I will stay and I will go.

No, we're here in Atlanta and happy to be here with. This is the home of CNN. Ted Turner's house is right below me in our -- and we're all around that, so that's pretty cool.

I'm here to interview JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon a little bit later today. Looking forward to it, because this is his first interviewer. He's really spoken out since the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank and this whole banking crisis, so we'll get his candid thoughts on that as they're opening a big community branch right here in Atlanta.

So that's why I'm here. But I miss you guys.

LEMON: Aww. We miss you, too. We miss you, too. But we got a lot to get to right now.

HARLOW: We do; we do. After months of pushing back, it looks like Mike Pence might finally testify in the special counsel's investigation of former President Donald Trump.

Pence's spokesman says he will not appeal a judge's order to appear before the grand jury investigating the January 6th Capitol attack and Trump's efforts to overturn that election.

This means that Pence could potentially testify under oath about conversations he had one on one with Trump leading up to that day.

So let's bring in senior legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid.

This is certainly precedent-setting. And it's never happened before, if he does this.

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Poppy. This could be a historic moment if Pence is able to testify about the pressure campaign that he faced from the former president and his allies to block Biden's victory.

This has been something that investigators have been particularly interested in as they investigate the events leading up to January 6th. This would be the first time that he's participating in an investigation against the former president.

Now there is, though, some carve-outs -- there are some carve-outs here for him. There are some exceptions. Specifically, he will not have to testify about anything related to his work as president of the Senate on January 6th. And that was a very important carve-out for him, a Constitutional concern that he raised in his arguments.

Let's take a listen to what he said about how he sees this judge's decision.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm very pleased that a federal judge, for the very first time, recognized that the Constitution's speech and debate protections apply to the vice president of the United States when you're serving as president of the Senate.

That was the core of my concern about the subpoena being brought.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: So he's choosing to frame this as a win in terms of his constitutional challenge, because they did give him that carve-out. So you won't have to answer any questions about exactly what he was doing at the Senate on January 6th.

But in the weeks and months leading up to that, that will potentially be fair game for investigators. Unless of course, the former president appeals this on executive privilege grounds.

But I'm told, Poppy, that is unlikely, because so far they have not been successful in those challenges.

HARLOW: Right.

REID: And right now it's unclear exactly when Pence will testify.

HARLOW: Right. And executive privilege doesn't always apply. So but just before you go, Paula, we've also learned that national security officials have testified the former President Trump was warned, not just once, not twice, repeatedly, that he was not allowed to seize voting machines after he lost the election. What do you know about that testimony?

REID: Well, Poppy, this is some great new reporting from our colleague, Zach Cohen, who's learned that multiple top Trump administration officials have testified. Again, former President Trump was warned that he did not have the authority to seize voting machines.

[06:05:07]

And his former attorney general, Bill Barr, has previously spoken publicly about Trump's interest in potentially seizing voting machines. Let's take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL BARR, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: My recollection is the president said something like, Well, we could get to the bottom. You know, some people say we could get to the bottom of this if -- if the department seized the machines. There was a typical way of raising a point.

And I said, absolutely not. There's no probable cause, and we're not going to seize any machines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: This issue has been of particular interest to investigators, and this new reporting, once again, gives us a window into what's going on behind closed doors with the special counsel's grand jury.

HARLOW: Yes, quite a window. Paula, thank you for the reporting on both those fronts -- Don.

LEMON: All right, Poppy and Paula.

This morning, lawmakers in Tennessee are set to vote on expelling three of their Democratic colleagues from the state House. Republicans accused the three Democrats of breaking House rules when they led this protest for gun reform on the chamber floor just a week ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No action, no peace! No action, no peace! No action, no peace!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So yesterday on CNN THIS MORNING, Justin Jones, one of the lawmakers facing potential expulsion, slammed Republicans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JUSTIN JONES (D), TENNESSEE STATE REPRESENTATIVE: It's morally insane that a week after a mass shooting took six precious lives in my community here in Nashville, my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, their first action is not to take actions to rein in this proliferation of weapons of war in our streets, but it's to expel their colleagues for standing with our constituents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Live for us this morning in Nashville, CNN national reporter Ryan Young.

Ryan, good morning to you. What is the latest?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Good morning, Don.

Look, it's raining like cats and dogs here. Can I tell you the emotions are just sort of overflowing here in Nashville?

People have been talking about this for the last week in terms of what should they do with these three lawmakers?

You can understand this community is hurting after that shooting, and so many people have so much passion. They've been coming to the state House and say, look, they want some sort of reform.

But Republicans say the three Democrats took this way too far by going on the House floor, and they want something done. Of course, Republicans are in the majority. Now when you speak to some Democrats, including the folks in the

NAACP, they say getting rid of the three lawmakers is a step too far. They believe they were showing passion and trying to get some commonsense gun reform.

But when you talk to the other side, they say this is about decorum at the state capital and that the three lawmakers took this too far.

And today we could see this happen, Don, because a lot of people believe the Republicans have some momentum in terms of putting some pressure on these Democrats.

LEMON: So Ryan, let me ask you about Representative Justin Jones filing a police report over an incident on the floor. Remind us of what happened, please.

YOUNG: Yes, and we're going to see this video in a second, Don, but when you think about the emotions in this, and of course, anytime you bring something to the gun debate, you know emotions can sort of get really high. Well, take a look at what happened with a cell phone and some tussling right on that House floor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SHOUTING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your hand off him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: John, what a mess. So Justin Jones believes he was knocked down. He wants to put out a warrant on this other lawmaker.

So you have Justin Jones, Gloria Johnson and Justin Pearson, all pushing for it, hoping they keep their seat.

Folks who live in this area that we've even talked to just last night were telling us they believe some of this is taking away from what they should be talking about, which is the six lives that were lost and the heroic actions of the police officers on that day.

But instead, we're going back and forth. Everyone is in their party corners, fighting to see these three lawmakers will keep their seats -- Don.

LEMON: Gosh, chaos. Ryan Young, thank you very much. In a rainy Nashville this morning -- Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Yes, and as we continue to track what is happening in Nashville, also on the international front, overnight, Israeli forces clashed with Palestinians for the second time at Jerusalem's Al-Aqsa Mosque.

This follows a violent raid less than 24 hours earlier that drew widespread condemnation from the Arab world. Israeli police fired stun grenades and rubber bullets. They ultimately arrested more than 300 Palestinians.

CNN's Hadas Gold is live in Jerusalem.

Hadas, I know you've been tracking all of this. Of course, all of this is coming as Passover is happening. What are you hearing and what's the expectation if there is going to be more violence, potentially?

HADAS GOLD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes. Kaitlan, the weeklong Passover holiday just began. Of course, we're still in the middle of Ramadan.

[06:10:04]

The kindling is still very much there and very much dry for another light of the fire.

As you noted in less than 24 hours, Israeli police now twice raided the Al-Aqsa Mosque, this entire compound. Of course, that you can see behind me, the golden dome of the rock. That is the third holiest site in Islam, and, of course, even more sensitive during Ramadan.

It is of -- the area is also known as Temple Mount to Jews, and it's the holiest site in Judaism.

But the Israeli police once again raiding the site for similar reasons as to why they did it the night before. They said that dozens of what they call juveniles were barricading themselves inside and were trying to set off fireworks and throw stones.

But from videos we're seeing overnight, we see that it was much busier, with a much more, you know, wide array of worshippers who were inside the mosque while this happened.

There are some allegations, also, that the Israeli police entered before the prayers were even over.

We know from the Palestinian Red Crescent Society that at least six people were injured. So not as many injuries or arrest as what we saw the night before.

We're also sharing from Palestinian officials that most of those who were arrested the other night have now been released.

But then again overnight, we saw more rockets fired from Gaza, militants there saying that this was in direct response to what's happening in Jerusalem. No injuries were reported once again on other side.

But it goes just to show you the reverberations of what happens here, especially at the holy sites, how it not only has reverberations across this region, but across the Arab world.

Now the Israeli military says that they are not interested in an escalation, they say, but they are prepared for one. I don't really believe that there will be an escalation to the levels of what we saw in 2021 when similar clashes at Al-Aqsa erupted into that 11-day war. But with the things that way they're happening here, we have to really

watch the momentum, and it really could spiral into something further -- Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Yes, you can clearly see how things are changing so quickly, especially at such a time as Ramadan and Passover. Hadas Gold in Jerusalem, thank you for that.

Also this morning, there are new tensions amid threats from China that are coming after House Speaker Kevin McCarthy defied Beijing, saying he didn't need to follow what their suggestions where. He met with Taiwan's president in California.

HARLOW: Also Vladimir Putin sending a new warning to America. Coming up, what he told the new U.S. ambassador. We'll take it live to Moscow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:15:57]

COLLINS: This morning, a group of both Democrats and Republican lawmakers have just landed in Taiwan, hours after House Speaker Kevin McCarthy himself met with Taiwan's president on American soil. That was in California.

But this comes as China is now promising to take action. Speaker McCarthy, though, pushing back on Beijing after his historic summit at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in California.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Well, my first message to China, there's no need for retaliation. But the one thing I would say to China, too, at no time -- I am the speaker of the House. There is no place that China is going to tell me where I can go or who I can speak to, whether you be foe or whether you be friend.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS Now, it is not often that McCarthy and Nancy Pelosi agree. But Pelosi, who made her own trip to Taiwan, recently commended McCarthy's meeting, saying that it is to be committed for its leadership, bipartisan participation in distinguished and historic venue.

All of this is coming as this morning, Taiwan's defense ministry says that it has detected Chinese warships around the island after that meeting happened.

They're also keeping a close eye on this Chinese aircraft carrier strike group as it is passing nearby. These are photos that were taken just yesterday.

Back in August, as we know, China launched massive military drills. They fired missiles near Taiwan, because they were so angry over Pelosi's visit to the self-governing island. Joining us now is CNN congressional correspondent Lauren Fox, who is

on Capitol Hill and our CNN correspondent, Selina Wang, who is in Beijing.

Selina, obviously, we -- we're seeing China saying they're going to take resolute and strong measures after this meeting that McCarthy had. What are we expecting those to look like?

SELINA WANG, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, there's been a lot of tough talk coming from China. They've repeatedly condemned this visit.

And that's not a surprise, because Beijing reacts furiously every time Taiwanese leaders have these sorts of high-profile international meetings. And that's because Beijing sees Taiwan as a breakaway province that is part of its territory.

So this is what China's foreign ministry said after the meeting. Quote, "China will take resolute and strong measures to firmly defend national sovereignty and territorial integrity. The U.S. and Taiwan are colluding with each other, using transit as a pretext to condone Taiwan independence separatists to engage in political activities in the U.S."

But so far, when it comes to the actual response on the ground, Kaitlan, China has been far more restrained. Wednesday morning, Beijing sent a large-scale patrol and rescue vessel to the Taiwan Strait. Then Wednesday evening, Taiwan tracked a Chinese aircraft carrier group passing through the waters of Southeast Taiwan.

That response is far less than how China reacted last summer when Nancy Pelosi went to Taiwan. Now, part of that reason is because this trip is taking place on American soil, not in Taiwan.

Beijing has also been trying to reconnect with the world after dropping its harsh zero-COVID policy. So it may not want to overshadow its diplomatic role with war games, Kaitlan.

LEMON: All right. So that is from China. Lauren, let's talk about what's happening with U.S. officials and their response. What are they saying? Responding to these? How are they responding to these China threats?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy yesterday was defiant. You heard him there, saying that China, no friend, no foe is going to tell him where he can go.

And there was an especially revealing moment yesterday during the press conference, in which McCarthy was asked, would he ever go to Taiwan? He said he has no plans to visit that country right now, but he does say that he's not going to be told whether he can go or not go.

And he emphasized that, if he went, he would want to do it on a bipartisan basis. It's so important to remember yesterday the symbolism of having

Republicans and Democrats standing behind the House speaker in support for Taiwan.

McCarthy underscored a few logistics: that he's going to continue fighting to transfer arms to Taiwan, as well as supporting their economic growth.

He also made it clear that this is something that Republicans and Democrats agree on. It is such a divide up here on Capitol Hill when it comes to domestic issues like immigration, like investigations.

[06:20:00]

On this issue, McCarthy emphasized, as well as Democrats who spoke yesterday, that this is something that Congress and the White House has to be united on. They feel as though this is the best way to show strength for the country.

And I think that that was really the whole tone of yesterday's summit out in California -- Don.

COLLINS: Yes, a time when you rarely see bipartisanship, especially on something that's notable.

And Selina, this isn't the only thing that's happening. Keeping this big picture here. Also the top diplomats, foreign ministers from Saudi Arabia and Iran, were in Beijing earlier this week. Of course, that comes after China brokered a peace deal, essentially, between them.

This is the first meeting where they've gone there in seven years, I believe. This is incredibly significant.

WANG: Yes, exactly. This is a huge deal. As you say, this is the first meeting between the highest level bilateral gathering of these officials, the first of its kind in more than seven years.

Back in March, the two sides agreed to restore relations after that landmark deal that China brokered.

Now, these two sides were previously major adversaries and had severed diplomatic relations in 2016. So this is a big diplomatic win for China.

And it's significant here that Washington was on the sidelines, especially since the Middle East has for so long been shaped by American involvement.

So at this meeting in Beijing, Saudi Arabia and Iran's foreign minister, signed an agreement to reopen embassies and consulates in their countries.

And now the big context amid all of this is that it comes as Beijing has been casting Xi Jinping has this global peace maker, and he has been on a diplomatic roll. He is currently meeting with French President Emmanuel Macron in

Beijing. He recently met with Spain's prime minister in Beijing. So while U.S.-China relations may be at this very, very low point, you do see Beijing trying to shore up relations elsewhere.

LEMON: All right, Selina and Lauren. Thank you both very much.

COLLINS: Of course, as Selina was noting there, the French president is in Beijing this morning. He is meeting with the Chinese president. This matters, because French officials say that during this three-day trip, the French president has several goals: from stabilizing trade and diplomatic ties with China, but also pushing for peace with Russia.

Of course, the latter is the biggest focus of the international community as they are watching with the war in Ukraine. Macron says that he petitioned the Chinese president to use his influence with Putin, saying, quote, he can count on Xi to reason with Russia and bring everyone back to the negotiating table.

Obviously, we'll see we'll see --

LEMON: Yes, we'll see what happens.

COLLINS: -- if that's successful.

LEMON: Meantime, Russian President Vladimir Putin telling the U.S. ambassador to Moscow that Washington's support for Ukraine in 2014 is to blame for the current conflict, and that relations between America and Russia are in, quote, "deep crisis."

One week after Russian authorities arrested "Wall Street Journal" reporter Evan Gershkovich, accusing him of espionage, the newspaper says that he still -- he still has no consular access.

CNN's Matthew Chance joins us now live from Moscow with the very latest.

Matthew, hello to you. What else did Putin say to the ambassador about the relationship between the U.S. and Russia?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, he made his characterization of the relationship. And I have to say it was pretty accurate, if a little understated.

He said, as you mentioned, that the relationship was in a deep crisis, and he said the reason for that is because they've got different approaches to the modern world order, though he didn't specify exactly what he meant.

He spoke almost directly to Lynne Tracy, who's the newly appointed U.S. ambassador to Moscow. And he basically said you may not agree with me, but U.S. support for the color revolutions -- These are the pro-democracy uprisings in Eastern Europe in the 2000s -- played -- played a role in that, as did U.S. support for the toppling of the -- equal to a coup (ph), by the way, the toppling of the Ukrainian authorities in 2014 in that other pro-Western pro-democracy rising that led to the Russian intervention in the country back in 2014.

It was quite an awkward exchange, because it wasn't just the United States ambassador there. There were other ambassadors, as well, presenting their credentials. For instance, to the Danish ambassador, he said, you know, we need to work out who basically attacked the gas pipeline, the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline last year.

And he spoke to the Norwegian ambassador as well, saying that our relationship is -- is virtually frozen.

And so it's sort of highlighted the kind of isolated position of the Kremlin at the moment.

COLLINS: Yes, certainly an isolated position, but we know the president of Belarus is in Moscow right now, meeting with him. We'll keep an eye on that meeting.

Matthew Chance, thank you.

All right. Also this morning, we have more on the former vice president, Mike Pence's, decision to not appeal a federal court ruling when it comes to testifying about January 6th and his conversations with Trump. This is significant. How does it change Pence and the 2024 field that he seems to be prepared to enter? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:28:53]

HARLOW: There's your beautiful Atlanta skyline this morning. Happy to be with you. Welcome back to CNN THIS MORNING. We are following a significant development in the Justice Department's January 6th investigation.

Former vice president, Mike Pence, will not fight a judge's order to testify before a special grand jury. Expect some of that testimony to focus on conversations that he had directly with President Trump in the days and weeks leading up to the insurrection on January 6th.

This will be, once again, a precedent-setting, historic event. No former vice president has ever complied with a criminal investigation subpoena to testify about a former president's actions.

With me now to talk about this, and also the probe going on here in Georgia, is CNN political commentator and former lieutenant governor of Georgia, Jeff Duncan, who insists that I can't call him Lieutenant Governor.

JEFF DUNCAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's right. Jeff.

HARLOW: Jeff. All right, fine, Jeff. So let's start.

How significant for Pence to talk? Granted, there's a carve-out here. The judge said there are some things that are protected by the Speech or Debate Clause of the Constitution. But there's a lot he can and, I guess, has to answer. DUNCAN: Yes. I think Mike Pence, just going to turn out to be the most important witness that this grand jury gets to hear from, right?

HARLOW: The most.

DUNCAN: The most. I mean, just think about the interesting details that he's got, the conversations that he's had, the insights that he's going to give. I mean, the thousands of questions that could possibly be out there.

And I think the other part of this is that he, you know, is the perfect.