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CNN This Morning

Former Vice President Mike Pence to Testify in Case regarding Former President Trump's Attempts to Overturn 2020 Election; Rockets Launched at Israel from Lebanon; FBI and U.S. Army Accidentally Detain Wrong Individuals During Training in Boston; Judge Rules Murdochs May Be Subpoenaed to Testify in Dominion Voting Systems Defamation Lawsuit against FOX News. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired April 06, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:02]

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the A.M. hour of CNN THIS MORNING. Don and I are here in New York. Poppy is on assignment in Atlanta as you can see her there. This is just into CNN. We have new video of protesters who are storming the Blackrock investment building in Paris. We'll tell you why. We'll take you there.

Political chaos in North Carolina. That's after a state lawmaker switches parties and gives Republicans a veto proof majority. What it could mean for abortion rights and future elections.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Also, the special counsel investigating Donald Trump could finally get testimony from former Vice President Mike Pence.

COLLINS: That could be incredibly significant. It's months of pushback, and now Pence, it appears, is going to finally testifying in the special counsel's investigation into Trump and his actions on January 6th. A spokesman for the former vice president says he will not appeal a judge's ruling and order that he must appear before the grand jury that's investigating the insurrection and Trump's efforts to overturn the election. That means Pence could testify about the one-on-one conversations he had with Trump leading up to that day, including what we know is a heated phone call that happened the morning of the riot when Pence refused Trump's efforts to get him to try to block the certification of President Biden's.

Plus, a CNN exclusive this morning, as sources are telling CNN that former national security officials have testified that Trump was repeatedly warned he didn't have the authority to seize voting machines as some were encouraging him to do so.

CNN's senior legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid is tracking all of this. Paula, Pence going to testify could be potentially game-changing in this investigation.

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: It's potentially historic, Kaitlan, for him to go and testify under oath about this pressure campaign that he faced from the former president and his allies as they tried to get him, unsuccessfully, to Block Biden's victory. He can talk about conversations he had with the former president. And, as you noted, one of the conversations that's going to be a particular interest was that really heated phone call that he had with the former president around the time of the insurrection. Other witnesses we know have discussed that and the grand jury would like to probably hear that particular evidence from his perspective.

Now, this would be the first time that he would be cooperating in a criminal investigation against his former boss. Though, it's interesting, he has been given at least one carve out, so questions that he won't have to answer. He won't have to discuss anything related to his official role as president of the Senate on January 6th. That was something that his lawyers had fought for on constitutional grounds. He considers getting that carve out to be a constitutional victory. It's one of the first times the courts have weighed in on this.

At this point, we don't know when he will testify, but based on my reporting, I don't expect the former president to appeal this on executive privilege grounds because, as you know, so far, they've been unsuccessful on that pursuit.

COLLINS: Yes, they've basically lost all of them. And Paula, we're also learning from reporting from Zach Cohen this morning that national security officials testified Trump had been repeatedly warned that he could not seize voting machines that came after he lost the election. What do we know about what these officials, top officials from his White House, his administration, told investigators?

REID: Yes, this is a great window into the kind of evidence the grand jury is hearing, this exclusive reporting, like you said, from our colleagues Zach Cohen, we're talking about the really top officials in this administration, Department of Homeland Security chief Chad Wolf, one of his top deputies, Ken Cuccinelli, as well as the national security adviser, Robert O'Brien, have all been asked about this and testified that the former president is allies, they were told repeatedly, the government didn't have the authority to seize voting machines.

Former Attorney General Bill Barr has also spoken publicly and in his testimony to the January 6th committee about Trump's interest in this. He's also said publicly, look, we made it clear that was not an option. But this is significant because it shows us exactly what Special Counsel Jack Smith is interested in, and really the breadth and depth of information that the grand jury is hearing as they weigh possible charges.

COLLINS: Yes, we'll see what outcome -- what the outcome is, what difference it makes. Paula Reid, thanks for those updates.

HARLOW: With more on all of these legal threads, we're joined by the former U.S. attorney from Georgia's middle district Michael Moore. Nice to have you in person. Good to be in your beautiful state. So Paula's reporting is significant on a lot of fronts, including she doesn't expect Trump's team to appeal it. Pence's team has just said they're not going to appeal. So Pence is going to talk before a grand jury. If you were a prosecutor questioning him before the grand jury about January 6th and the conversations with Trump leading up to that, what would you want to know?

MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, MIDDLE DISTRICT OF GEORGIA: Well, I'm glad to be with you. I will tell you that I don't think there's any chance in the world he could have won an appeal if he moved forward. And so the prosecutor really has never been trying to get information about what he shared on the Senate floor while he was working for -- he simply wants to know what was Trump's, what directions were you getting? What was the discussion? Was this a concerted plan?

[08:05:05]

And I imagine there's probably some interesting finding out, were a lot of the ideas coming from Trump or these things that were being funneled through Trump by counsel.

HARLOW: Why, because of the intent?

MOORE: It goes to Trump's intent, and it goes -- there's nothing illegal about a client are a former president talking with lawyers and then exploring ideas. That's not illegal. What's your legal is if they do something with the intention to violate the law. And so is this going to be something where they were having an open discussion, or is this something where he said, I don't care what the law is. I expect you to do this. This is where we're going, because that then tells more about Trump's state of mind at the time and his intent.

HARLOW: Pence still would retain the right, reserve the right not to answer some of those questions.

MOORE: He would. I mean, he's got more spin on this than a basketball in the hands of the Harlem Globetrotters. I mean, there is the only guy I know that could lose a case and turn around and act like he won it. It was never a question about what, did they want to talk about the Senate floor and what was going on? So he may try to say, look, this is the speech and debate clause. There may be something. That's going nowhere. They courts have been very clear, you can't hide behind privileges to try to conceal criminal conduct.

So this is in the process of a grand jury hearing. It's a very secret proceeding anyway, so there's already some protections for the court. They don't have to worry about this getting out of the public domain.

HARLOW: So tell me about what's going on here in Georgia, Fani Willis here and what is going on in terms of her probe and to the call, the famous Trump call, et cetera, et cetera. On this, you think that an indictment is coming soon. Why?

MOORE: I do. I think it's probably within the next month or two. Some of it is just the nature of the clock. We already know that the judge, there was this motion filed by Trump's lawyers to sort of disqualify the findings of the special grand jury and do away with those things and block that. And I think that Fani is going to have to respond to that, the judge has given a timeline for that. But I also think she's just watching the clock, and we're getting closer into an election season. This is a trial that will take months if not a year to complete. There's no way, frankly, I think at this point we could ever be through the trauma before the election.

HARLOW: You do not think --

MOORE: I don't not think we could, I do not think we could. I just think it's going to be impossible. You already know, and if you just look at the New York case, the next hearing is in December. We're then in 24.

HARLOW: Yes, it's gets right into the thick of it.

MOORE: And no judge in my mind is going to tell a candidate for president, come off the campaign trail so that you can answer charges that the prosecutors could have brought years ago. And so I think that's going to be an interesting -- that's why I think she's all the way to bringing some case.

HARLOW: We will see, Michael. Thank you. Glad to be in person with you. Guys, back to you.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Michael and Poppy, thanks so much.

This just in, Israeli Defense Forces say a rocket fired from Lebanon into Israel was just intercepted. It happened just after Israeli police storm Jerusalem's Al Aqsa Mosque for a second time. CNN's Hadas Gold live in Jerusalem with more this morning. Hadas, hello. What's happening right now?

HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, it seems as though a barrage of rockets apparently is being launched from Lebanon into Israel as we speak. I'm just getting alert after alert on my phone, saying that sirens are going off in the western part of northern Israel near the border with Lebanon. This is an incredible escalation to what we've been seeing here over the past few days. The big question is who is behind these rockets? How many of them have been fired, whether they have caused any damage or injuries?

But this is literally happening as I'm speaking. I can feel my phone vibrating with these alerts going off now. Now, I do have to say, a lot of people when they hear southern Lebanon, they think of Hezbollah, but in that part of southern Lebanon, southern western Lebanon, there's quite a few Palestinian refugee camps, so these could be coming from Palestinian militants.

But these in the Israeli military's eyes, anything that happens in southern Lebanon happens with the tacit approval of Hezbollah, of course, which is very much backed by Iran, a militant group and its own right. And whenever I speak to Israeli security officials, their biggest concern about security in this region is Hezbollah and is a major confrontation with Hezbollah. So there is a big question right now, who is behind this? Will the Israeli military respond? And not even will they, but how will they respond? And could this escalate into the full out war with Hezbollah that all the security officials I speak to are so concerned about. The reason being Hezbollah's arsenal is much more powerful than what

we see with the likes of the Hamas militant group from Gaza. This is the major concern -- I cannot overestimate how this is the major concern for Israeli security officials is an all-out war with Hezbollah. So we're going to be watching this space very carefully. But as I as I'm seeing it right now, a barrage of rockets coming from southern Lebanon into northern Israel as we speak, Don.

LEMON: Hadas Gold joining us from Jerusalem. Keep an eye on it. Thank you, Hadas.

HARLOW: Well, this morning, FBI and military officials are apologizing after a training mission went horribly wrong and the wrong person was detained. The FBI says it was assisting the military with an exercise in a downtown Boston hotel, but because of what they're calling inaccurate information they were sent to the wrong room. The hotel guest was handcuffed and interrogated for an hour before the agents realized their mistake.

[08:10:09]

Natasha Bertrand joins us live at the Pentagon with more. My goodness, can you imagine being that person?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes Poppy, just really remarkable here. So what we're told is that the FBI and U.S. Army Special Operations Command were conducting a training exercise and downtown Boston at the Revere Hotel there, and they ended up reading the wrong hotel room and detaining someone who actually was not the person that was roleplaying in the scenario. Now, the FBI did tell us in a statement that the Boston division was assisting the military in this training exercise that was meant to, quote, simulate a situation their personnel might encounter in a deployed environment, and, quote, "Based on inaccurate information, they were mistakenly sent to the wrong room and detained an individual, not the intended role player. Thankfully, nobody was injured."

Now, this all went down at the Revere Hotel in Boston, as I said, and police were called at around 12:20 a.m. on Wednesday. Here is that initial police call.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Swing by the revere hotel, two Delta pilots had people claiming to be FBI agents barged into their room and handcuffed them to the bathroom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERTRAND: So as you heard there, there is a sense that these were actually two Delta pilots that were detained wrongfully by the FBI. We are still trying to get clarity on that. We did reach out to Delta for comment, and they are investigating this as well. But the Army is apologizing this morning, saying that they, quote, would like to extend our deepest apologies to the individual who was affected by this training exercise, noting that it was just meant to enhance soldiers' skills, Poppy.

HARLOW: Wow. Natasha, thank you for that update.

COLLINS: Nothing like that rude awakening.

Also there is a new update in the legal battle between FOX News and Dominion Voting Systems. A judge now says that Dominion will be able to force Rupert Murdoch and his son Lachlan Murdoch, as you see here, to testify. It's a billion-dollar defamation suit. The jury selection in the trial is scheduled to start one week from today if the two parties don't come to an agreement before then and settle.

Joining us now is CNN senior media reporter Oliver Darcy. Oliver, I don't think it's a total surprise, but just the idea that they could force the chairman and his very powerful son to come and testify is so notable.

OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: And very bad news for the Murdochs. They did not want to testify in this trial. FOX lawyers basically did everything they could to try to persuade the judge not to compel them to come to Wilmington and have to testify in this case. The judge really didn't buy any of it, and throughout, we saw him being very skeptical of the arguments FOX put forward. And yesterday he made it official. He said, basically, if Dominion wants these guys in court to testify, I'm not going to stand in their way. They just need to issue a subpoena, which it seems like they will, and they're going to be summoned to Wilmington, Delaware, at some point in the next several weeks if this does go to trial to testify in this case.

LEMON: This is the most fascinating, you could qualify it as a media story, but it's beyond that. It has monumental repercussions for the First Amendment, so on and so forth. Why is it so important for Dominion to have the Murdochs testify here?

DARCY: The buck, ultimately, at FOX stops with the Murdochs. They can put their executives in place at FOX News. But at the end of the day, Rupert Murdoch, Lachlan Murdoch, they call the shots. And we've actually seen this in a lot of the private emails and text messages that have come out. The Murdochs call the shots, and that's why Dominion wants them on the stand. And we've also seen Rupert Murdoch say, he conceded in his deposition that some of his top hosts, people like Sean Hannity, did endorse, those were -- that's what Murdoch said, endorse the election lies. And that's obviously different than reporting on election lives. And so Dominion is very interested in bringing them to the stand, letting them say that in front of a jury.

LEMON: whether it was directed from the top.

COLLINS: Yes, and we know those hosts are going to be testifying. Also, how is FOX responding to this new development?

DARCY: They're not happy. I'll read you what they said in statement yesterday, another statement blasting Dominion. They said, "Dominion clearly wants to continue generating misleading stories from their friends in the media to distract from their weak case, demanding witnesses who had nothing to do with the challenge. Broadcast is just the latest example of their political crusade in search of a financial windfall." Obviously, a lot to digest there. Most legal experts would not say it's a weak case.

LEMON: That's just my question, is it a weak case.

DARCY: I don't think I've talked to a legal expert that said, this was a weak case. They have all indicated it's a pretty strong, very strong defamation case. And like I said, at the end of the day, they might not have their hands like in the dirt, planting the plants or whatever, but they are responsible for what happens on FOX News, and that is why Dominion wants to put them on the stand.

COLLINS: We're watching. It's if it does happen. I know we're getting closer and closer, last time for a settlement, it will be fascinating to watch. Oliver, thank you.

LEMON: Thank you, Oliver.

[08:15:00]

So, it's been called a political earthquake in North Carolina. Democratic State lawmaker flips parties granting the GOP a veto-proof majority. The White House now weighing in on that.

COLLINS,: Yes, fascinating to watch. Also in Paris, protesters have just stormed into the BlackRock Investment building. We're live on the ground as these demonstrations, as you can see here, are only intensified.

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COLLINS: This is just into CNN. The video you're seeing here, these are protesters in Paris, who have stormed the offices of the investment firm BlackRock in the middle of the city. In the video, you can see protesters are chanting, waving flags, carrying flares. Smoke is filling the building. It is the 11th day of nationwide demonstrations against the country's new pension bill. If you're unfamiliar, it raises the retirement age from 62 to 64. It has infuriated provisions everywhere.

CNN Correspondent Melissa Bell is live in Paris. Melissa, can you tell us what you saw on the ground here?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, this is where the main march is just preparing to get going, Kaitlan. Let me give you -- show you around. The union is saying just within the last hour or so that they stand united. They intend to continue their protest action. At the 11th day here, there are strikes going on nationwide. And this march will get going shortly.

The government for now, Kaitlan, saying is going to stand firm. But you mentioned those images a moment ago. Those were real worker -- union workers who managed to occupy that building for about 10 minutes. And it's a reminder of what we've seen in the last couple of weeks, what had been largely protests -- peaceful protests since they began in January, really turning a lot more violent and a lot more confrontational with the police.

[08:20:04]

Not something we expect to see against the 11,000 policemen that are out across the country to try and keep the peace. But some groups determined to turn these as violent as they can.

For now, we're waiting to go to the talks that took place between the unions last night and the government collapsed. Once again, both sides failing to agree with the government vowing that it will push this retirement age up from 62 to 64. And that it will not back down even in the face of these repeated strikes and marches, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Yes. So far, they say they're sticking with the plan. Melissa Bell, please keep an eye on those developments there on the ground. We'll check back in with you. Thank you.

HARLOW: Just incredible to see those images at a Paris. Meantime, here in the U.S., a political earthquake bubbling in the North Carolina State House this morning after Representative Tricia Cotham, who was voted into office as a Democrat, won by 20 points as a Democrat made a stunning announcement at GOP headquarters in Raleigh yesterday. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRICIA COTHAM, REPUBLICAN STATE REPRESENTATIVE, NORTH CAROLINA: I'm no longer a Democrat. The party that best represents me and my principles and what's best for North Carolina is the Republican Party.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That move now grants the state GOP veto-proof control over both legislative chambers. Sunlen Serfaty joins us live from DC. That means, right that in the Tar Heel State, the Democratic governor there, Roy Cooper, they can override any veto by him.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (on camera): That's right, Poppy. These are very real political implications of her move and a very rare political defection. In announcing that she's going from Democrat to Republican, it gives much more control to the Republican Party in this state.

Now, in her, making this big political announcement was interesting to note that she somewhat blasted the Democrats in the state saying she went -- alienated from the Democratic Party, feeling -- saying that she felt like it was unrecognizable to her, intimating essentially that the party she believes has gone too far to the left. Now, this does hand Republicans much more power in the statehouse. This now secures Republicans having a veto-proof supermajority in the house.

They already had that situation in the Senate. So, this assures now that both chambers, the House and Senate, in the North Carolina State House has the ability to override vetoes from the Democratic governor. This essentially sets Republicans up on a glide path to get their legislative agenda passed. And we'll see that power dynamic really starts to shift very quickly. Republicans have already signaled that they intend to move on big- ticket items like abortion rights, gun rights, and the state's voting laws. So, certainly, big implications going forward, Poppy.

HARLOW: Well, what are Democrats saying?

SERFATY: Well, they're angry about this move. And that were surprised even though it had been talking about for some time. A lot of Democrats saying that she misrepresented herself and her policies to her constituents that voted her into office by a big majority.

And it was also notable that the White House came out with a statement after this announcement, really acknowledging the big legislative ticket items are up for grabs that North Carolinians will have to vote on now. And with these new super majorities, it makes it much harder for Democrats to stop some of them.

The White House is saying bedrock American freedoms are at stake in votes in North Carolina. And they're calling on those who are in the statehouse to vote, they say, their consciences rather than the politics of the moment.

HARLOW: Yes. Well, fascinating. Sunlen, thank you very much. Don?

LEMON: All right. From North Carolina, we go to Tennessee. This morning, lawmakers in that state are set to vote on whether to kick three Democrats out of the State House. Republicans accused the lawmakers of breaking House rules when they led this protest for gun reform on the chamber floor. This is just a week ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, yesterday on this very program, Justin Jones, one of the lawmakers facing potential expulsion slammed Republicans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTIN JONES, DEMOCRATIC STATE REPRESENTATIVE, TENNESSEE: It's morally insane that a week after a mass shooting took six precious lives in my community here in Nashville. My colleagues on the other side of the aisle, their first action is not to take actions to rein in this proliferation of weapons of war in our streets, but it's to expel their colleagues for standing with our constituents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Out now live to CNN reporter Ryan Young in Nashville. Ryan, what's the latest there?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Don, just a lot of motion here. I can tell you. Even since the last time we joined you on the show, people have been showing up in mass to start this protest. If you look behind me over here, you can see the folks that are starting to gather.

We've also had state troopers arrive here. That normally happens when protesters are going to be outside. But look, folks are interested to see what happens with Justin Jones, Gloria Johnson, and Justin Pearson, all going through this situation from the fact that they could be expelled from this house body at this point. Of course, they took to the floor, they used that bullhorn, and they thought that was not a part of decorum.

[08:25:03]

So, as you see all the folks who have gathered despite all this rain, the emotions run high because when you think about this, you're talking about six victims who are killed in a school. Emotions have been running high because, of course, you don't want to see some change, and maybe some of these high-powered weapons pulled off the street.

The other side of this. The Republicans are saying it was not the way to do it. They were not given the opportunity to go up and use that bullhorn in chambers. A lot of conversation that this could happen later on in the -- in the afternoon because of all the house resolutions they have to go through first, Don.

LEMON: One more thing, Ryan. Representative Justin Jones is actually filing a police report over an incident on the floor. Remind us of what happened, please.

YOUNG: Yes. The drama hasn't stopped here, Don. And again, that motion just spilling over on the floor. In fact, take a watch at this video and see what happened as there was a sort of a tussle right there on the floor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: Yes. Justin Lafferty and Justin Jones apparently had a scuffle over that phone. He wants to pull out a police report on him. But look, today the focus on is whether or not these three lawmakers will be pulled from their jobs and their seats after going on and having that emotional outburst there in the middle of the floor.

As again, protesters are gathering here, Don this could be a very long day here. This hasn't happened very often here in Tennessee, so people are wondering how this is going to play out.

LEMON: Yes. A very long and obviously a very rainy one as well. Ryan Young in Nashville this morning. Thank you, Ryan.

HARLOW: Well to New Zealand we go. Former New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern delivering a deeply personal farewell speech on Wednesday. Ardern announced her surprising resignation, if you'll remember, in January. She said she had no more in the tank after five years of leadership. She was the world's youngest female head of government when she became the prime minister at age 37. And only the second world leader to give birth and office. In her final speech to Parliament, she got emotional as she sent a very encouraging message to those hoping to leave the country in the future.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACINDA ARDERN, FORMER NEW ZEALAND PRIME MINISTER: No, I cannot determine what will define my time in this place. But I do hope I've demonstrated something else entirely that you can be anxious, sensitive, kind, and wear your heart on your sleeve. You can be a mother or not. You can be an ex-Mormon or not. You can be a nerd, a crier, a hugger. You can be all of these things. And not only can you be here, you can lead just like me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: I mean, I think we all love that -- love that so much. Obviously, I love the fact that she said, guys, you know, you can be a lot of different things at once and lead. But what I love the most is that she walked away and said, I did this, it took a lot out of me, now I'm going to do something different with my life. You don't have to always be in the spotlight to be deeply meaningful.

COLLINS: I mean, she shocked the world when she announced that she was stepping down. It just was remarkable back in January when that happened.

LEMON: Yes. Well, she made history.

HARLOW: (INAUDIBLE)

LEMON: And as we talked about it, yesterday when it comes to Tiger Woods --

HARLOW: Yes

LEMON: -- your priority sometimes, they just change and you move on and you want to do different things.

HARLOW: Yes.

LEMON: You don't always have to do the same thing for your entire life or your entire career.

HARLOW: Totally. That's exactly what I was thinking. Yes. Good for her.

LEMON: Yes.

COLLINS: Yes. On her part -- what it means for her party? Her party was lagging in the polls. We'll see. Thank you, Poppy.

Also, we're learning today. NPR has now been hit with a state- affiliated media label, that's from Twitter. That puts it on par with foreign propaganda outlets. The broadcaster is not happy. We'll tell you how they're responding, next.

LEMON: And as we go to break, right, before astronauts who will lead the first crewed moon mission in five decades. They made their last debut -- late night debut, I should say. There they are in the Late Show with Stephen Colbert.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN COLBERT, LATE NIGHT SHOW HOST: Jeremy, elephant in the room, you're a Canadian, I would choose -- and that's not why we made you sit at the end. You're just the biggest guy out here. How did this happen for you? How did you end up at NASA?

JEREMY HANSEN, ASTRONAUT: Well, there's probably a couple of reasons you could pick whichever one you like. I -- you know, if something goes wrong in this mission and the NASA can blame Canada. (INAUDIBLE)

COLBERT: Well, Canada will just say, sorry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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