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Dueling Rulings On Access To Medication Abortion Pill In U.S.; Vice President Harris Calls Texas Ruling A "Dangerous Precedent"; Texas Judge Suspends FDA Approval Of Medication Abortion Pill; Israel Reports Deadly Attacks In West Bank And Tel Aviv. Aired 7-8a ET

Aired April 08, 2023 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Don't you just love Saturday?

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: I do.

BLACKWELL: I mean, how can you not like Saturday? Such a great day of the week?

WALKER: It's Easter weekend as well.

BLACKWELL: It's Easter weekend. Families together. It's April 8th. Good to have you. I'm Victor Blackwell.

WALKER: And I'm Amara Walker. Do you have your bunny ears to do your Easter egg hunt?

BLACKWELL: I've had bunny ears, didn't have anything to do with Easter.

WALKER: All right. We'll move on. Two major and very different rulings on access to a medical abortion pill nationwide. One judge halts the availability of the drug, another preserving access to it in some states. We're going to sort out the rulings, and of course, the coming legal challenges.

BLACKWELL: And the tensions in the Middle East, at least three people are dead in separate attacks. We are live in Jerusalem with the latest.

WALKER: Vice President Kamala Harris make the last-minute trip to Nashville to support two Democrats expelled for leading a gun protest on the House floor, how Monday could mark the next step in the lawmakers' vowed to continue to fight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll never forget that look, you know, realization that, hey, you know, finally somebody in the state is listening. And you know, now, he has a chance.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLACKWELL: An Oklahoma death row inmate who's been served his last

meal three times, may soon have his murder conviction vacated. The reason the state Attorney General says he can no longer stand behind that conviction.

WALKER: And we begin this morning with the abortion debate heating up once again across the U.S. This time, a fight is brewing over access to medication abortion pills after a federal court issued contradictory rulings.

BLACKWELL: It began after a federal judge in Texas ruled to suspend the FDA's two-decade-old approval of Mifepristone. And then, a Washington state judge ruled the FDA must keep the pill on the shelves in 17 democratic states, and the District of Columbia. CNN's Senior Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now. Elizabeth, explain what this drug is, and what happens next?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So, Victor, Mifepristone is a drug that's used along with another drug for miscarriages and also for abortions. And so, the FDA approved this drug 20 years ago, and I want to show you how many women have been taking it. If you take a look at this graph, when it first came out, most abortions were still surgical abortions.

But then, that number grew, and grew, and grew to the point now, where 53 percent of abortions are done by these pills. They're called medication, abortion. So, this is a drug that's been used by millions, and millions, and millions of women safely for 20 years. In fact, that safety profile is really quite good. I want to compare it for a minute to two other drugs that are widely used.

So, all drugs can cause terrible side effects sometimes, if you look at the number of deaths per million people for Mifepristone, which is the drug that we're talking about. It's five deaths per million users, for penicillin is 20, Viagra is 49. So, compared to penicillin, Viagra and many other drugs, this drug actually is less deadly, it's safer.

So, if the ruling that came from the judge in Texas, it's going to be batted back and forth. How -- why did he say it wasn't safe? Who is he to say that a team of FDA scientists working for years reviewing this drug that they were wrong, and somehow, he who is not a scientist is right. So, right now, there are two things that are unclear. One, you mentioned, there are actually two decisions, one from in Washington state, one in Texas. They contradict each other.

And so, it's unclear what effect they're going to have on each other. The other thing that's unclear is that the judge in Texas gave seven days for it to be appealed. That appeal is underway. So, there's no changes right now as we speak. It's unclear what will happen as these winds its way through the legal system. Victor and Amara.

BLACKWELL: Elizabeth Cohen with the live reporting, many parts still moving here. Elizabeth, thanks so much. The Department of Justice, the manufacturer of the drug and the FDA have already filed appeals against that Texas ruling halting the FDA approval of that drug. WALKER: Yes. CNN's Jasmine Wright joining us now from the White House. And Jasmine, the president vowing to fight this ruling. What else is he saying?

JASMINE WRIGHT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, the White House really had been bracing for this moment and frankly worried given the background and the past rulings of this Trump appointed federal judge that this could be the outcome, and here we are. So, late last night, President Biden issued a statement slamming the ruling, and I want to read your part of it because it was incredibly forceful.

The President said, "The court in this case has substituted its judgment for FDA, the expert agency that approves drugs. If this ruling where to stand and there will be virtually no prescription approved by the FDA that will be saved from these kinds of political ideological attacks. This does not just affect women in Texas. If it stands, it would prevent women in every state from accessing the medication regardless of whether abortion is legal in a state. It is a next big step toward the national ban on abortion that Republican elected officials have vowed to make law in America."

[07:05:27]

Now, after -- we also heard from the Vice President ahead of this statement in Tennessee, where she talks really passionately about what the administration is prepared to do, to try to safeguard access. We know that she has been deeply engaged in this issue holding dozens and dozens of roundtables on it since that leaked Dobbs decision last year. Here's what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There is no question that the President and I are going to stand with the women of America, and do everything we can to ensure that women have the ability to make decisions about their health care, their reproductive health care in a manner that is, is, is what they need, and they decide that not their government. It is contrary to what makes for good public health policy to allow courts and politicians to tell the FDA what it should do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WRIGHT: So, from those last two statements from the president, from the Vice President, we can tell that the appeal could be based on two major things. First of all, the fact that the administration does not feel that this judge had the purview to decide whether or not the FDA was appropriately approving drugs now on the market.

And then, second, just the massive amounts of harm that could come to women and doctors, frankly, that had been relying on this medication abortion drug for over 20 years. Now, one interesting thing to note here is that when I have talked to White House officials, personally, both in the west wing, and the Vice President's office and ask them what happens if this ruling comes down, what would the administration do?

They always said, let's wait, let's pause for the ruling. Now, it is here. So, not only is the appeal weigh under, appeal process underway, but all eyes will be on this White House when it comes to what else they have in store when trying to safeguard abortion, access to abortion in this really unprecedented moment.

WALKER: Yes, clearly, these dueling decisions causing a lot of confusion already. Jasmine Wright, thank you. And former Federal Prosecutor Shan Wu, joining us now to talk more about the legal implications and the practical ones of these dual rulings. Shan, I mean, a lot of things stick out to me, and there's so many questions to be made.

But first off, I mean, you have this judge in Texas reaching, you know, 20, back 20 years to an FDA approval that was made. And during that time, it has been shown, as we heard from Elizabeth Cohen, that this drug has been safe and effective. So, what reasoning is he giving as to why it was ruled that the FDA improperly approved this drug Mifepristone.

BLACKWELL: Mifepristone.

WALKER: Mifepristone, Shan.

SHAN WU, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: I'm going to avoid pronouncing that.

WALKER: Yes, I'm going to avoid that word from now.

WU: He basically -- he really substituted his judgment for the FDA. And not only did he substitute his judgment for their scientific expertise, he did it in a legal posture, which is particularly ridiculous. I mean, he is ruling in a preliminary injunction. It's a very high bar to get the injunction, he needs to find that there is irreparable harm, as well as a likelihood of success on the merits.

And when you look at this drug that has been safely used for 20-plus years, it's very hard to understand how there can be any immediate irreparable harm. I mean, all this time has already passed. Then, as to the merits issue, his opinion is just very, very weak. I mean, he is substituting his judgment. He feels the FDA didn't take into account psychological harm to women after they've had a medically induced abortion, obviously, ignoring the psychological harm of women being denied access to health care.

And most troubling of all, to me, as a lawyer looking at it is he reaches back to the 19th century, to pull out a law which has been completely dormant, the Comstock Act, which was meant to address a vile, obscene, lewd, criminal behavior. I mean, it reads like something out of the dickens era. And he uses that saying that that law still on the books, and therefore it could prohibit the mailing of any drugs that could be used for abortion, even though the Justice Department specifically issued a memorandum after Dobbs, saying that, that law would not stop the mailing of this particular drug. BLACKWELL: Hey, Shan, I want you to listen to something that Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez suggests. And then, I want your thoughts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[07:10:01]

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): I believe that the Biden administration should ignore this ruling. I think that we -- you know, the courts have the legitimacy, and they rely on the legitimacy of their rulings, and what they are currently doing, is engaged in an unprecedented and dramatic erosion of the legitimacy of the courts.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Do we want to live in a world where the government can decide to ignore a federal court ruling?

CORTEZ: No, of course, I mean, I do think that this, that it raises it, a -- these important questions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Is that possible that the administration could say thank you, judicial system, we heard you and then ignore it.

WU: It is possible. There could be, perhaps, an executive order, and if they ignored it, they would trigger a process by which they'd probably be back before that judge, perhaps look into the contempt order, and then that would be litigated. Ultimately, they're going to have to litigate one way or the other.

I find it highly unlikely that someone of Merrick Garland's temperament would just want to ignore that decision, even though it's a very poorly reasoned decision. And I think they're, they've already begun to appeal it. The fact that there are these dueling decisions where the Washington state judge wanted to protect the access in the case is probably going to be fast-tracked to the Supreme Court.

And obviously, a concern there is the Supreme Court increasingly shows less deference to agencies than before. One sort of historical footnote I'd add is that Justice Alito, relied on a very old disgraced jurist, Matthew Hale, who is a witch hunter, basically, in his opinion, overruling Roe versus Wade, and it kind of reminds me of this Texas judge reaching back to this dusty old law to try and use it now to prohibit women from getting access to health care.

WALKER: Look, we know that there's going to be a lot of uncertainty, right as all of this plays out, legally, so we'll watch that closely with you, Shan Wu. Thank you very much.

Israeli officials have called up reserved units after reporting to deadly attacks on Friday night.

BLACKWELL: The violence is happening during a sensitive time for both Israelis and Palestinians. Muslims have been marking the holy month of Ramadan, Jews are celebrating Passover. CNN's Salma Abdelaziz is with us now from Jerusalem. Both sides say they do not want war, they don't want escalation, but no end in sight.

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is a weekend of fear and worry across the region, although it is, of course, as you mentioned, also a weekend of religious observation in celebration all three holidays, as you said, Easter, Ramadan and Passover coinciding at once, but they come after three days of escalating violence, really, that all started on Wednesday when Israeli police twice raided in a single day the al-Aqsa Mosque, of course, one of the holiest sites in Islam.

There are very dramatic pictures showing Israeli police hitting people inside with the butts of their rifles with battens -- those were extremely inflammatory as you can imagine to the Muslim world. Condemnation poured in as well as rockets from two different fronts striking Israel from southern Lebanon and from Gaza. I have to mention those rockets coming from Southern, Southern Lebanon -- a barrage of over 30, the most seen from that region since the war in 2005.

So, truly, unprecedented in years. Israel Prime Minister Netanyahu quickly responded, retaliated. The Israeli military saying it struck sights both inside Gaza and in Southern Lebanon. At that point, it seemed that it was a very measured tit-for-tat, that these were very measured responses, but it all escalated. It all really spiraled yesterday, with two separate terror attacks occurring just hours apart.

The first in the occupied West Bank. There Israeli authorities say a terror attack, a shooting attack left two young girls, young women rather, 16 and 20, sisters who were British-Israeli nationals dead; their mother seriously wounded. And then, later into the evening in Tel Aviv, of course, a city that is seen as relatively safe relatively far from, from these activities, yet another car ramming attack.

But all of those factors from the rhetoric you're hearing, from Hezbollah, and Hamas to the heightened alert, to the Israeli military, to these religious holidays, all of these factors still in place, and many here fear that it's a recipe for more disaster.

BLACKWELL: Selma Abdelaziz, thank you so much. Joining me now is Aaron David Miller, he's a former Mideast Negotiator for the State Department, and a Senior Fellow at the Carnegie Endowment. Aaron, good to see you again. So, now, we know that the Israeli police, the IDF, they are on, the reserves are up, they are on heightened posturing here. Is de-escalation possible? Is avoidance of this, these hostilities, continuing possible or probable now?

[07:15:27]

AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER MIDEAST NEGOTIATOR FOR THE STATE DEPARTMENT: It's a great question, Victor, and thanks for having me. Look, I think de-escalation, frankly, is about the only approach that you can use right now. You've got a perfect storm. You have a 56-year- old Israeli occupation, you have the most fundamentalist, extreme government in Israel's history.

You have Hamas trying to undermine the Palestinian authorities' position in the West Bank and to plan terror attacks against Israel. And now, you've got coordination on the Lebanese for an increasing coordination between Hamas and Hezbollah. And I think the reality said, as we enter another Passover, Ramadan, Ramadan and Easter, that Israelis and Palestinians find themselves in a kind of strategic cul de sac.

And frankly, other than de-escalation, and I think you've identified the key here, there's really no way out because you don't have leaders on either side of the line, that are willing and able to make the kinds of decisions that are required, even to lay the basis for negotiation to try to end the Israeli Palestinian conflict. So, I'm afraid it's going to get worse, Victor, before it gets worse.

BLACKWELL: So, it sounds like there are the ingredients that would suggest that we could see a repeat of what we saw in 2021. I mean, that started after raids of the al-Aqsa Mosque. And I think there was May of 2021, do you see that this could be a repeat of what we saw two years ago?

MILLER: I do because the Haram al-Sharif, the Noble Enclosure, the Temple Mount, overlapping sacred space, incredible sensitivity, both to Muslims and to Jews has been the scene and the sight of so many clashes, and it is a trigger. It, it riles up emotions on both sides.

And as we saw, as you correctly pointed out in May 2021, once it begins in around Jerusalem, if it is over Jerusalem, then Hamas and Gaza is likely to get into the fray by launching their high trajectory weapons. The Israelis are going to respond, the danger, I think, the real danger here is that even though I think Hezbollah, neither Hezbollah nor Israel wants it is the opening of another front in Lebanon.

Because there, you could see a major confrontation involving tens of thousands of high trajectory weapons and enormous numbers of deaths on both sides of the line. De-escalation is possible. I don't think people want an explosion.

But as I pointed out, that the underlying factors don't augur well, for a period of prolonged stability. It's sad, and it's tragic. Again, as we entered this important religious season, all these peoples in this region deserve much better than this.

BLACKWELL: A week ago, David, you published and we were reporting here about these massive protests in Israel to Netanyahu's proposed judiciary changes. They've been paused for a second. But is there potential here for a wag the dog scenario, not that this is created to distract from those, but can be exploited to distract from the domestic turmoil that's happening in Israel.

MILLER: There's no doubt that this particular prime minister on trial for now three years in running the New Jerusalem District Court for bribery, fraud, and breach of trust is Mr. Security, and would like nothing better than to reframe this. Change the channels on the TV if you'd like, from these massive protests to security issues.

At the same time, none of these security issues are winners for him. And traditionally, Benjamin Netanyahu has proven himself to be very risk averse when it comes to projecting Israeli force and stumbling into an unwanted word confrontation. And you also have the Israeli military, Victor, for the first time.

Military reservists participating in these demonstrations in the hundreds, if not thousands. So, I don't think Mr. Netanyahu can afford right now domestic crisis looming to stumble into another crisis because he doesn't right now have the confidence. I don't think much of the Israeli military let alone, I think a majority of Israeli public.

BLACKWELL: Aaron David Miller, always good to have your insight. Thanks so much.

MILLER: All right.

[07:20:00]

WALKER: All right. Still ahead, the latest jobs report shows the economy is still trucking along, but we are seeing signs that things are cooling down. We're going to break down the numbers and what they mean for all of you at home.

Also, the White House showing support for two expelled Democratic lawmakers sending Vice President Kamala Harris to meet with the group and the lawmakers now vowing this is not over. How Monday we'll mark the next step in their fight?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALKER: So, the latest jobs report out this week showed signs that the U.S. Labor Market is cooling off but remains robust as employers added 236,000 jobs in March. President Biden called it a "good jobs report" for hardworking Americans, with the unemployment rate falling to 3.5 percent, despite stubborn inflation, and the recent banking sector crisis. Let's get some perspective now on these new numbers from the President of the National Urban League, Marc Morial, he also served as the Mayor of New Orleans. A pleasure to have you on, Sir.

MARC MORIAL, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL URBAN LEAGUE: Good morning!

WALKER: So, what's your read on these new jobs report we received?

MORIAL: This is a strong jobs report. The unemployment rate is as low as it's been in 50 years. And it's important to not look at job creation with a single month of numbers, but to look at the long-term trend. And the long-term trend has been an average of 300,000-plus jobs created per month now, for a two-year period. So, essentially, the economy is almost back to where it was pre-COVID to an extent, and job creation is strong, consumer spending is strong.

And directionally, we have consistent growth in the American economy. Are there risks ahead? There are always risks ahead. But I would hope that the Federal Reserve would not use the hammer of unemployment to fight inflation. So far, they've been able to balance and calibrate the two. And they need to continue to do that to forestall some of the inflation storm clouds that may be in front of us, but even inflation seems to be easy.

WALKER: That's good news, because I don't know how much longer a lot of us can stand these sky-high prices for everyday items. So, JPMorgan Chase CEO, Jamie Dimon, as you know, is the head of America's largest bank, sat down with our Poppy Harlow this week to talk about the state of the economy. And this is what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN HOST: Has this banking crisis, even though you think it's almost over, which I'm really glad to hear, though, increase chances of a recession here?

JAMIE DIMON, CEO, JPMORGAN AND CHASE: Yes, but I look at like, it's not definitive. It's just like another weight on the scale. And think of it as you know, people who says like raising rates, another 50 basis points or something like that. We are seeing people reduce lending a little bit, cut back a little bit, pull back a little bit. It won't necessarily force recession, but it is recessionary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: Well, Marc, you, you seem to have a more bullish assessment on all this. You see recent banking incidents, such as the collapse of the Silicon Valley Bank, are not likely to have a significant impact on the economy?

MORIAL: Well, there's a difference between a recession and a slight slowdown in the economy. And I think a slower, slower growth may be in the cards. But what we've got to consider is that because of the Biden administration's big three bills, the infrastructure bill, the manufacturing, and chips bill and the commitment to a renewable energy economy for the future, there's going to be significant continuing step of fiscal stimulus in the economy.

So, Jamie's views are always highly respected. I want to be much more optimistic that we can avoid a recession because what we've had so far in the last two years is the fastest comeback, post a significant job loss we saw during COVID in American history, with now a low unemployment rate, low black unemployment and not a perfect situation, but directionally is what's important when we look at economic statistics.

WALKER: Well, let's talk about low black unemployment, because the, the, the Biden White House is touting a major feat in this report, right? The unemployment rate for Black Americans falling, as you said to five percent in March. That's the lowest level in history. What do you contribute that to?

MORIAL: So, I think it has a lot to do with the policies that were undertaken, particularly by the Biden administration, post the COVID recession, the injection of money into the economy, which had helped to bring the economy back. The checks, people got, the PPP loans, a range of things, the child tax credit, those tools have helped to lower the black unemployment rate. But however, even though it's as low as it's been, it's still higher

than the overall rate, higher than the white rate. Even though it is lower than it's ever been. We still have unacceptable levels of poverty, particularly in the black community. So, we've got to read these numbers in the context of a broader economic situation. So, I will always say it's good to see the black unemployment rate come down, but also emphasize the work ahead.

WALKER: Yes.

MORIAL And the work yet to be done.

WALKER: We still have a ways to go, don't we. Marc Morial, really appreciate you joining us this morning. Thank you.

MORIAL: Thank you.

[07:29:27]

BLACKWELL: Coming up, the Biden administration is weighing in on the expulsion of two Black Tennessee state lawmakers who were punished for protesting a lack of action on gun violence. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:33:38]

WALKER: The White House is standing by the two black democratic representatives in Tennessee who were expelled by their Republican colleagues for an anti-gun protest on the House floor.

Well, that protest was in the wake of the deadly Nashville school shooting that killed six innocent people.

BLACKWELL: Vice President Kamala Harris met with now-former Representative Justin Jones and Justin Pearson.

The Vice President also spoke with Representative Gloria Johnson, the white Democrat who participated in the protest, but was not expelled.

CNN's Gary Tuchman, reports on the fallout.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMERICAN CROWD: (INAUDIBLE).

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): New energy at the Tennessee State Capitol, after a day of protests, debate, and consequential votes.

AMERICAN CROWD: Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Me with the House standard recess until 5:00 p.m. on Monday, April 10th, 2023.

TUCHMAN: Two democratic legislators had just been expelled from the Tennessee House of Representatives by Republican supermajority.

In the hallways of the State Capitol in Nashville, demonstrators yelling and crying with some staging and dying in protest.

As legislators finally out of the House chambers, a chaotic scene. Tennessee State Troopers standing between them and demonstrators. The yelling was loud, the full state peaceful.

And then out, came the representatives who had been the subject of the expulsion discussions. Justin Pearson on the left, Gloria Johnson in the middle, Justin Jones on the right.

[07:35:02]

The two men expelled, the woman surviving by one vote. They were punished by Republicans for their demonstration on the House floor last week, calling for gun reform, walking up to the well of the chamber, and protesting, following the horrific school shooting in Nashville last month.

AMERICAN CROWD: No action, no peace! No action, no peace! No action, no peace!

TUCHMAN: Republicans saying their behavior was disorderly. And as a result, they made the decision to kick the two men out of the legislature.

So, what does the woman who survived have to say about that?

REP. GLORIA JOHNSON (D-TN): I think it's pretty clear. I'm a 6-year- old white woman. And they are two young black man.

TUCHMAN: The chairman of the Tennessee Black Caucus is Sam McKenzie.

REP. SAM MCKENZIE (D-TN): The world saw the (INAUDIBLE). I don't have to say a word about the fact that our two young African American brothers were unfairly prosecuted.

Information, evidence introduced inappropriately, but they handled themselves like true champions.

TUCHMAN: Republicans deny a racism allegation. Some saying that Gloria Johnson was not leading the protest effort last week.

One Republican leader told us, further investigation taking into the ethics committee, a lesser punishment was not something his party wanted to do.

REP. SAM MCKENZIE (D-TN): This group, my caucus, which is the supermajority. There are 75 of it, said, no. That is not -- we don't want to go through to the other trail. We don't want them censured; we want them expelled.

TUCHMAN: But one of those expelled representative stands by what he and his two Democratic colleagues did. Saying, they were not being allowed to talk about what they feel needed to be talked about, gun reform.

JUSTIN JONES, EXPELLED TENNESSEE STATE REPRESENTATIVE: We have been expelled for standing with our constituents, but I have no regrets. I will continue to speak up for district 52. And for Tennesseans, we're demanding change.

TUCHMAN: Notably, both expelled legislators could be back in office, and soon, their county commission's will appoint temporary representatives, prior for the next election. And they are permitted to select the two men who were expelled.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: Victor and Amara, when the Tennessee State House of Representatives reconvenes in the state capitol behind me on Monday, it's expected there will be protesters out here, showing their support for the two legislators who were expelled, and the one who was almost expelled.

And those three: Justin Jones, Justin Pearson, and Gloria Johnson, it's anticipated they will be here with the protesters.

Back to you.

WALKER: Gary Tuchman, thank you.

And coming up, a rural Idaho hospital is now the latest to close its maternity ward. That's a trend that's forcing more and more pregnant women to have to drive long distances to get care. We'll discuss why this is happening, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:41:53]

WALKER: Across the United States, healthcare systems are closing maternity wards and ending labor and delivery services. A combination of new laws, difficulties in finding, and retaining staff, and financial issues are contributing to maternity care deserts as it's been called.

A report by the March of Dimes, reports, the areas where there was low or no access affect nearly 7 million women, and almost half a million births. That includes a five percent increase in counties that have reduced access since 2020. And, you know, Idaho, is just the latest example.

Just this week, a hospital on Emmett, Idaho, announced it would stop delivering babies in June. That came a few days after a facility in northern Idaho made its own announcement, citing Doctor shortages in the political climate. That means patients will have to travel to cities hours away or even out of state for care.

Joining me now is Dr. Elizabeth Cherot, senior vice president, chief medical and health officer for the March of Dimes. Doctor, really appreciate your time. This is tragic, you know, expectant mothers, the last thing they should be dealing with is the logistics of seeing a doctor to make sure that they and their baby are healthy.

What kind of impact are we seeing on the health of these expectant mothers when there are no nearby hospitals in the small town they live in?

DR. ELIZABETH CHEROT, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, CHIEF MEDICAL AND HEALTH OFFICER, THE MARCH OF DIMES: Well, Amara, thank you for having me today. This is a really important topic, the March of Dimes put out a maternity care desert report. Our last one was in 22. Our next one is coming out actually this June.

And realize, a maternity care desert is where a county has no provider, whether that's a midwife or a physician, no obstetrical unit to deliver in, or even a birth center.

And we've seen rises across the country. This happening -- 89 rural -- between 2015 and 2019, we saw 89 obstetrical units close.

In 2020, you already mentioned, half of our rural community hospitals have no obstetrical units. And what happens is these women have no access. And so that travel or then they decide not to attend. And we know that women that don't attend prenatal visits have a higher rate of preterm birth, they have lower birth rates.

Or, I should say, baby's weights are lower. So, they have, you know, really growth restriction.

Another increase that we see is increasing other -- maternal morbidity and mortality can be three to four times higher in women who don't get prenatal care.

WALKER: Yes. I was just going to ask you that, because, you know, we're very much aware, at least, I am, of this -- you know, America has the highest maternal death rate of any wealthy, industrialized country.

And for black women, that's even worse, I think it's, you know, double -- more than double the rate of the white maternal death rate in this country.

CHEROT: Yes. Yes.

WALKER: I can't help but wonder how much these maternity care deserts are going to impact this maternal death rate that needs to be reversed yesterday?

CHEROT: Yes, we're already in a crisis across this country.

[07:45:00]

And these maternity care deserts are Idaho, being a perfect example that we need to be really looking at the data. They're having shortages of staff, both nursing obstetrical providers. These units are, you know, 25-bed hospital is what they're talking about, and -- you know, in Idaho.

That low volume is not helpful, and most of it is Medicaid. So, and our reimbursement is so low for this. So, we're not prioritizing maternal care in this country. And we're heading in the wrong direction.

(CROSSTALK)

WALKER: Right, I mean --

CHEROT: Our CDC data pointed out -- yes.

WALKER: Please, tell me tell me about the CDC data. I'm sorry, excuse me.

CHEROT: Well, the recent data, right, from 2021 showed an 89 percent increase in death. And it shows you that we, you know, are headed in the wrong direction.

And what we're doing is really not prioritizing moms, babies, and our families. And that, you know, the health of our families is, you know, the health of our country, and it's broken.

WALKER: It absolutely is broken.

I mean, I'm just thinking about these women and these -- in these rural towns, I mean, they're probably not getting the checkups that they need. What happens if their water breaks and, you know, they have to drive, four or five hours away? Right? I mean, that's very concerning.

CHEROT: Right. I completely agree with you. And I think there were a lot of people think that the solution is telemedicine, which is great.

We know that telemedicine really works for preventative services and getting out to patients. But we have mobile units at the March of Dimes. We are doing that not only in some of these maternity care deserts like Ohio and Appalachia, we're actually doing in, you know, urban settings where there are maternity care deserts as well. Washington, D.C. being one of them. We have Arizona as well.

But other things that need to happen is advocacy. We really need to get out there and extend for instance, on the state level, our Medicaid.

60 days after you deliver is not good enough. We need to extend for a full year and some states have done it. Others have not. But one of the biggest things we could do is really advocate for our moms and our babies and families.

WALKER: What can these expectant mothers do right now? I mean, can midwives and doulas help fill the gap? Should they be calling the March of Dimes to see where your mobile units are going to be? CHEROT: Yes, we're actually launching one in New York City. We're hoping to launch another as well this year. But mobile -- it's a really complex problem with not just one solution.

You know, I think the March of Dimes, you know, has an 85-year history, you know, of solving for some of the most complex problems.

Polio was one of them that -- that's what started the March of Dimes, when FDR asked for Americans to, you know, mail in, and even if they had only a dime to the White House to help solve for these types of problems. And we're doing the same thing.

We're trying to raise funds to get mobile units to do advocacy, to education for our patients, and providers. And really put out the data that we like our maternity care desert report, which really talks about where these increases are and where women need help.

WALKER: Just quickly, because we do have to go. I did forget to ask you about, you know, these contradictory rulings, right? And how all of these laws or these rulings may play into, you know, an issue that's already been exacerbated by the lack of resources.

(CROSSTALK)

CHEROT: Yes.

WALKER: So, Texas, you know, ruling that there will be at least a pause beginning next week on this FDA approved medication abortion pill.

CHEROT: Yes. Now, I read about it actually, this morning, so I appreciate the question.

I think -- listen, I think at March of Dimes, we recognize that access is one of the biggest barriers to the health of our pregnancies, our babies, and our families.

And access to care, we know at the March of Dimes, right, maternity care deserts is rising with that two percent that's been, you know, rising and maternity care does, we're going in the wrong direction.

And those are in some of the states where the abortion laws are the, you know, are restricting access, and we already have some of the highest maternal morbidity and mortality in those states.

You know, I've been a provider, an O.B. provider for -- almost 30 years delivering babies.

I'm worried about obstetricians not right -- finding a place, safe place to be able to practice. And recruiting them is already hard enough to get people to want to go into this field.

I am worried about health care and the way we're criminalizing it.

(CROSSTALK)

WALKER: Yes.

CHEROT: For providers to have to go and figure out how to practice is going to in some of these states is going to be very difficult. And we're already in the wrong direction for our moms and babies.

WALKER: That's a disturbing trend for sure. Dr. Elizabeth Cherot, we'll leave it there. Thank you.

We're going to be back after this.

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[07:53:46]

BLACKWELL: Officials in Marion County, Florida have arrested two boys. One 17, the other 12, and they're searching for third juvenile in connection with the murder of three teenagers last week.

WALKER: Investigators say they believe the victims were involved with burglaries and robberies as well. And that both the victims and the suspects were affiliated with criminal gangs in the area.

CNN's Carlos Suarez with more.

CARLOS SUAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Victor and Amara, good morning.

A week after the shooting, and the sheriff's office detailed the arrest of two minors including a 12-year-old boy in the shooting deaths of three teenagers last week.

SUAREZ (voice over): This morning, authorities are still looking for a third suspect in the case. 16-year-old, Tahj Brewton, remains at large. Authorities said they believe he's in Marion County and is not a danger to the community.

The 12-year-old boy and a 17-year-old are facing first degree murder charges. Authorities said the suspects and the victims were involved in burglaries and robberies in the area, including a robbery on the night of the shootings.

Investigators said the shootings took place in a car that belonged to one of the victims 16-year-old Layla Silvernail.

[07:55:05]

The sheriff's office said Silvernail was found shot on the side of a road, and later died at a hospital.

The body of another victim was found on a different road. And the body of the third victim was found in the trunk of Silvernail's car. That's according to authorities.

The sheriff's office hasn't said why the suspects turned on the victims. Here now is the sheriff.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BILLY WOODS, SHERIFF, MARION COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE, FLORIDA: Basically, simple terms, there is no honor among the thieves.

And, at some point, these three individuals turned on our three victims and murdered them. Two of them right there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SUAREZ: It's unclear if the minors are going to be tried as adults.

The State Attorney said they will "aggressively" pursue for prosecution. Victor and Amara.

WALKER: All right. Carlos Suarez, thank you.

And CNN THIS MORNING continues right after a break.

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