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Admin Vows to Fight Judge's Ruling Halting Abortion Pill Approval; U.S Probes Sensitive Intel Documents Circulating on Social Media; Today, Nashville Council Could Reinstate State Rep. Justin Jones (D-TN). Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired April 10, 2023 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JEFF BENEDICT, AUTHOR, LEBRON: Doing the job without sitting down and talking to LeBron.

[07:00:03]

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Page 470 is my favorite. We'll let the audience figure out.

BENEDICT: I know what you're talking about at the time.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Jeff, congratulations.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: I can't wait to read it.

HARLOW: Years of work pouring over, gosh, endless amounts of information. Good to have you.

BENEDICT: Thank you. Thank you all.

HARLOW: LeBron is on sale tomorrow. And we continue right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Supporters of abortion rights are furious this morning over the ruling to block a medication abortion pill.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A judge in Texas gave the Biden administration seven days to appeal his decision.

REP. TONY GONZALES (R-TX): It's very dangerous when you have the Biden administration coming out and saying they may not uphold a ruling.

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO CORTEZ (D-NY): It is an extraordinary example of judicial overreach.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Department of Justice is opening an investigation into a trove of leaked us intelligence documents that have been posted on social media.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The documents provide a rare window into how the U.S. spied on allies and foes alike. LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It's really problematic because it really generates a lack of trust between nations, both friends and foes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Monday evening, the Metro Council will decide the political fate of former Representative Justin Jones.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We've heard from thousands of constituents and they want him back in the seat.

STATE REP. JUSTIN JONES (D-TN): The Tennessee House Republicans attempt to crucify democracy, instead resurrected a movement.

GREGG POPOVICH, SAN ANTONIO SPURS HEAD COACH: But the cowardice, the selfishness of the legislators.

HARLOW: San Antonio's first head coach, Gregg Popovich, sounding off on lawmakers in the wake of the Nashville school shooting.

POPOVICH: That's freedom. Is it freedom for kids to go to school and try to socialize and try to learn and be scared to death that they might die that day?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rahm wins the Masters marathon. John Rahm began the week here at Augusta with a double bogey. He has ended it as a double Major winner.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I never thought I was going to cry about winning a golf tournament, but I got very close on that 18th hole.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Yes.

COLLINS: Such an awesome win for him.

LEMON: always magical to watch and soothing and exciting, all the emotions when you're watching the Masters, especially what happened. You're smiling a lot.

HARLOW: You know, I didn't want to masters but I'm so proud of him.

COLLINS: He's only 28 years old.

HARLOW: I know. That's amazing.

COLLINS: Arnold Palmer was also 28 when he won the Masters.

HARLOW: Really? Maybe he'll get a lemonade and --

COLLINS: Drink named after him?

LEMON: I could use an Arnold Palmer right now to wake up.

So, we have a lot to talk about this hour. Thank you for joining us, everyone. I hope you had a great holiday. Welcome back to work, if you are indeed back to work and school as well.

In the meantime, a federal judge in Texas has ignited a new battle over abortion pills that could reach the Supreme Court. The Department of Justice has already appealed the Texas judge's ruling to suspend the FDA's approval of Mifepristone. The medication has been widely available for women across the nation for more than two decades.

The Health and Human Services Secretary Xavier Becerra says that the judge's ruling is, and I quote here, reckless telling our Dana Bash that it could put all FDA-approved medicines in jeopardy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

XAVIER BECERRA, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: When you turn upside down the entire FDA approval process, you're not talking about just Mifepristone. You're talking about every kind of drug. You're talking about our vaccines. You're talking about insulin. You're talking about the new Alzheimer's drugs that may come out. If a judge decides to substitute his preference, personal opinion for that of scientists and medical professionals, what drug isn't subject to some kind of legal challenge?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Straight out to Arlette Saenz live at the White House for us this morning. Good morning to you, Arlette. Some Democrats are urging the FDA to flat out ignore the ruling. What's up?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Don, good morning. The White House is working through how exactly they can protect access to this medication abortion as the country grapples with this latest flashpoint in the abortion debate.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAENZ (voice over): The White House this morning staring down a new battle over abortion.

BECERRA: What you saw by that one judge in that one court in that one state, that's not America.

SAENZ: At the heart of the fight, a Trump-appointed federal judge in Texas suspending FDA approval of Mifepristone, siding with the anti- abortion groups who questioned the drug's safety. The ruling is on pause for a few more days, but it could put access to medication abortion in jeopardy across the country.

KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: It is contrary to what makes for good public health policy to allow courts and politicians to tell the FDA what it should do. The Justice Department quickly filing an appeal and vowing to seek a stay as it winds its way through the courts.

SAENZ: At the same time, a federal judge in Washington ruling the FDA must keep the pill available in 17 Democratic-led states, plus the District of Columbia.

[07:05:00]

The competing decisions could set up a showdown at the Supreme Court one year after it ruled constitutional right to an abortion does not exist.

President Biden vowing to fight that decision out of Texas every step of the way. Some Democrats pushing for the FDA to ignore the ruling.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: But I do not believe that the courts have the authority to -- have the authority over the FDA that they just asserted. And I do believe that it creates a crisis.

SAENZ: While Republicans warned against it.

GONZALES: The House Republicans have the power of the purse. And if the administration wants to not lead this ruling, not live up to this ruling, then we're going to have a problem.

SAENZ: The HHS secretary appearing to leave the door open.

BECERRA: Everything is on the table. The president said that way back when the Dobbs decision came out. Every option is on the table.

SAENZ: But a spokesperson later walking that back, saying, quote, as dangerous a president it sets for a court to disregard FDA's expert judgment regarding a drug's safety and efficacy, it would also set a dangerous precedent for the administration to disregard a binding decision.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAENZ (on camera): Now, beyond the appeal, the White House has yet to outline what steps they can take to protect access to this abortion pill, but they might be very limited in what they can actually do. They were able to pass to enact some very limited protections for abortion in the wake of that Dobbs decision and the president's calls to codify Roe v. Wade into law just simply don't have the votes up on Capitol Hill.

So for now, they will be watching how this plays out in the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, which is considered to be one of the country's most conservative appeals courts.

LEMON: All right. Arlette Saenz, thank you.

HARLOW: That's a good point about the Fifth Circuit.

Okay. With more providers -- with how providers are handling what is confusion in these conflicting court decisions, let's bring in our Senior Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen. We will get to the those questions in a moment, but can you just walk through the facts, what we know about the safety of Mifepristone?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Poppy, this is a very safe drug. Not only did it go through rigorous FDA approval 23 years ago but it's been used for 23 years in the United States by millions of women and has a very good safety profile. In fact, if you're really, really worried about deadly side effects of a drug, because that can happen with any drug, then you should take penicillin off the market, deadlier than this drug. You should take Viagra off the market, deadlier than this drug. So, this is a very safe drug.

Right now, in the United States, at least 53 percent of abortions -- more than 53 percent of abortions are done with this drug and another drug in combination.

Now, let's take a look at what this means. When we take a look at the United States, if you see the states in red, abortion is banned. They can't use these pills now anyhow, so this decision doesn't really affect them in the same way. But the yellow states where it's allowed with restrictions and the green states where it's allowed, it's going to really affect them.

I was speaking with an attorney who represents several different abortion clinics. And she said, listen, I'm telling my clients starting Saturday, if nothing changes, starting Saturday, you cannot use these pills. And so that is going to mean really serious health consequences from for many, many women in many, many states.

LEMON: Can we talk a little bit more about the potential options for physicians and clinicians moving forward, Elizabeth?

COHEN: Right. So, there is surgical abortion in, you know, some states. Obviously not all is an option. Also, I mentioned that this drug is used in combination with another drug. So, you could just used the other drug. That is possible. But it's not really -- it's not approved for that. I mean, you can still do it, but it is not as effective. You might have to take more of it. That could cause more pain for the woman. So, there is that other option, but it's not an ideal option.

COLLINS: The idea, though, that this could undermine the FDA's authority overall, because I mean this drug was approved over 20 years ago. How does it affect -- or 20 years ago, I think, exactly now. How does it affect how the FDA operates moving forward with all these major questions from Republicans and Democrats over if they should ignore the ruling, what it means for the FDA, Elizabeth, What about that?

COHEN: You know, we just heard from Biden administration official saying that this is really unprecedented. This is basically saying that any one judge, pick a judge, any one judge can overrule all the work that the FDA has done when someone applies to get a drug on the market. When a pharmaceutical company applies, they spend months and months going over -- sometimes years, going over the data consulting with external experts. They're all scientists. And the fact that one judge can just overturn it is unprecedented and really pretty scary.

I want to take a look -- I want to read to you a part from one of the legal briefs that was filed by the government in this case, I think it's worth really spelling it out. In this brief, the government says, if longstanding FDA drug approvals were so easily enjoined, in other words, were so easily reversed even decades after being issued, pharmaceutical companies would be unable to confidently rely on FDA approval decisions to develop the pharmaceutical drug infrastructure that Americans depend on to treat a variety of health conditions. In other words, pharmaceutical companies might say, you know what, we don't want to invest millions of dollars in R&D for a drug if just one guy or one gal, one judge can say, I don't like this drug, let's take it off the market.

COLLINS: Yes, it could have serious implications. Elizabeth Cohen, we'll see what the courts decide. Thank you.

Also this morning, the Department of Justice has now launched an investigation into the leak of Pentagon documents that were posted online. U.S. officials have confirmed that some of the documents are authentic. The leak poses a serious risk to relationships with U.S. allies and military options in Ukraine, but there is also a concern from Ukraine that the documents may have been altered or maybe part of a misinformation campaign.

For perspective on this, joining us now is retired U.S. Army Major Mike Lyons. I mean, this is astounding, because what these documents show, one, as The New York Times put it, that the U.S. has basically penetrated every Russian security apparatus, has great insight into it. But as David Sanger writes in The New York Times today, you know, this is a disclosure because it's fallout in real-time, because some of these documents already been 40 days old. So, you can actually see what they know right now about what's happening in Ukraine.

MAJ. MIKE LYONS (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Yes, that's right. I'm having a hard time getting my head around this. I mean, if there's 50 classified documents, there's 50 separate stories that are going to impact on the ground in Ukraine right now. The fact that they gave away their air defense platforms and where those locations were, the fact troop movements, they're talking about artillery rounds. We all know that Ukraine is running out of artillery.

So, this level of breach is significant in the fact that we've kind of asleep at the switch, we've had indications that was going on the past few months. We've got to do a better job monitoring these sites, these Discord sites that have this kind of information out there. It came from the highest levels of our government, the Joint Staff.

These documents, they were they were removed, obviously, from a briefing. There were there were pictures of these presentations. So, again, the damage assessment I still think is going on and it's very significant. And now all these holes are likely getting closed up. It's going to cause significant trust issues between us and Ukraine.

LEMON: But it does put into perspective, don't you think, the story that we've been covering about all these classified documents that are ending up, you know, at personal residences and so forth, just the danger that this poses, correct?

LYONS: It does, Don. And it's not just over classification. This is serious stuff. I mean, the things get over classified based on what might embarrass things within our country. This has national security implications on the ground, signals intelligence, SigInt, so to speak, it shows us eavesdropping on our allies. It speaks to the fact that humans now -- human intelligence sources could be burned on the ground there. People could be -- lives are at stake now with this kind of stuff.

HARLOW: And, I mean, Kaitlan makes such a good point about like real- time right now information about Ukraine, et cetera, but at the same time what was also included in the reporting from The Times over the weekend is sensitive briefing slides on China, sort of the entire Indo-pacific military theater, the Middle East, terrorism. It goes so far even beyond on the current conflict. I mean, considering relations with, look what China and Taiwan, look what's happening right now.

LYONS: Yes. Intelligence agencies now have got to focus on this to close gaps, mitigate risk, figure out what the damage is with regard to this information, taking our eye off the ball and what's happening in the Pacific. China, Russia could use this against our democratic allies and say, look, why should you trust United States? You are going to give them information. So, this information came from other countries. It had certain classifications that only certain other countries that had, New Zealand, Australia, not even normal NATO allies, so to speak.

So, this is a significant breach up there with Snowden, WikiLeaks and with regard, I hope we're closing ranks pretty quickly to figure out what happened.

COLLINS: And the point that David Sanger makes with Snowden is those were things were three years old. And this is -- because of how new this is, you know, eavesdropping on allies, spying on allies, not exactly surprised. Everyone knows that everyone does it, but it's the idea that it's put out in the forefront can cause tension in those relationships.

What I was most struck by was what they said about what's happening in Israel. And there was essentially this allegation of this intelligence that Massad is basically, despite chiefs in Israel, had helped foment the protests that we saw play out that we've been covering here every day when it comes to the judicial reform that's happening in Israel.

LYONS: Yes. It gets to the reason why these documents were released. You know, did someone have this level of intellect that recognize that that would cause that kind of a problem? But, again, that came from signals intelligence, signals operations, eavesdropping, so to speak. And whether or not the United States had any say in that really remains to be seen. But the person who released this information clearly wanted to hurt the U.S./Israel relations with that kind of breach.

[07:15:02]

LEMON: Yes, and just our allies' relationships. As you said, it's not surprising that everybody spies on everyone, but still it's not out there for everyone to read.

COLLINS: And, remember, whenever it was reported about, you know, with Merkel when she was the German chancellor, and it caused a huge rift with the Obama White House. yes, just amazing. I mean, we'll continue to see where this investigation goes. Thank you for stating the significance of it this morning.

LEMON: Thanks, Mike Lyon.

Just moments ago, China wrapped up its three-day military exercise near Taiwan. Beijing has sent dozens of warplanes over the self- governing island, which it considers its own territory. At one point, the planes formed an all around encirclement with 45 of them entering Taiwan's air defense zone. China claims that it is simply responding to Taiwan's colluding with external forces. That is a reference to Taiwan's president meeting with House Speaker Kevin McCarthy just last week. Taiwan is calling on China to exercise restraint this morning.

HARLOW: Israel -- we're just talking about Israel. Israel launching strikes against Syrian military targets, this is in response to six rockets fired into its territory overnight. Israeli forces say fighter jets and a drone hit multiple targets, including a Syrian military compound.

The exchanges follow recent escalation of regional attention after Israeli police raided Jerusalem's Al-Aqsa Mosque. You saw video of that happening multiple times last week.

Our Salma Abdelaziz is live for us in Jerusalem with more. Good morning, Salma. What is the latest you can tell us on the ground?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm just going to take you to the latest breaking news, which is out of the West Bank, the Palestinian Health Ministry saying that a 15-year-old Palestinian boy was shot in killed by Israeli forces in the occupied West Bank near the city of Jericho.

Now, we do know the Israeli military, according to a statement was operating in the area, but they haven't confirmed the death toll. But this is just yet another incident in these mounting, these escalating tensions that that come at a time when all three faiths were celebrating, observing religious occasions.

Just behind me here in the walls of the old city, you had Easter mass taking place during prayers for Passover, taking place during prayers for Ramadan, all under a very heightened security presence. It did pass peacefully.

But, again, I want to take you back to the West Bank, where yesterday there were two funerals held, one for two British Israeli sisters that had been shot and killed in what Israeli police say was a terrorist attack again in the West Bank, another for a young Palestinian man, a 20-year-old who was shot and killed by Israeli forces, they say, after he threw explosive devices towards them.

I bring up these funerals because you know that cycle of grief, violence, anger, that's what fuels this conflict. That's what leads to these mounting, these escalating tensions across this region, Poppy.

HARLOW: what are you expecting in terms of the demonstrations that are have been held consistently but are going to continue at the west -- along the West Bank today?

ABDELAZIZ: Absolutely. So, these are very specifically demonstrations that are being held by settlers in the West Bank. They're being attended by a very controversial figure, Ben-Gvir, a very far right- wing minister here. He has been convicted in the past of terrorism, of inciting hate against Arabs. He is an extremely controversial figure that again visited the Al-Aqsa Mosque complex, known as Temple Mount to Jews, earlier this year. He has been a figure that has been this leading voice for this extremist, for this right-wing movement. Again, he's going to be part of the settlement protest at the West Bank where, again, there was these two funerals held where we just have this incident taking place, all of this again feeding, fueling fears and concerns and the worry that this just continues to mount this escalating violence, Poppy.

HARLOW: Salma Abdelaziz, I really appreciate the reporting, thank you, live from Jerusalem.

LEMON: Today, Nashville City Council could vote to reinstate one of the state lawmakers expelled last week. The vice mayor of Nashville called the special meeting. He's going to join us live. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:20:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: We have been expelled for standing with our constituents, but I have no regrets and will continue to speak up for District 52 and for Tennesseans who are demanding change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, later today, Justin Jones, you saw him right there, that was on Friday, one of two Democratic Tennessee state lawmakers who was expelled last week, could get his seat back. Jones, along with Justin Pearson, were expelled from the Republican-led legislature after participating in a protest over gun legislation while the House was in session. Gloria Johnson was also up for an expulsion vote. She survived.

The National Metropolitan Council is tasked with deciding who will fill Jones' vacancy until the state can set up a special election.

Now, the council will meet today. They could vote to send Jones back to the statehouse. Here's what Jones told us on Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: If the natural city council next week wants to appoint you as an interim representative district, you would do it?

JONES: Most definitely.

LEMON: Let me ask you, why, considering all -- everything that has happened right now, why even go through all the rigmarole?

JONES: Because it's important to let them know that democracy -- we will fight for democracy, we will fight for a multiracial democracy. And so this extreme tactic to expel us into trying to humiliate us has only put a spotlight of the world on Tennessee.

And so I will go back because fighting for the future -- I'm 27 years old. Fighting for the future that I want to live in that I want my children to live in, it's worth whatever sacrifices that we have to give.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: That was Justin Jones joining us on Friday. And, you know, it could take weeks if this is normal procedure for the legislature, but they're trying to do a special session to suspend the rules to try to reinstate these members, starting with Justin Jones first and then later on believably, possibly for Justin Pearson.

[07:25:02]

So, joining us now, Nashville's Vice Mayor Jim Shulman, he called for today's special meeting. Mayor good morning. Thank you. I know it's very busy time for you. You haven't had a lot of rest, and we appreciate you joining us. Do you think the council is going to vote? How do you think they're going to vote this evening?

VICE MAYOR JIM SHULMAN, NASHVILLE, TENNESSEE: Well, you're never quite sure of what they're going to do. We have 39 members of our Metropolitan Council. It just takes two to not suspend the rules. So, what you'll see this afternoon will start promptly at 4:30 Central Time and there will be a motion to suspend the rules. If two people object, we're back on the basic rule, which is our Rule 49, which says that we have to wait four weeks. But if we don't get that many objections, then we can suspend the rules, the council suspended, and we can vote tonight.

And my guess is if we do that, the council vote to send Representative Justin Jones right back to the Tennessee statehouse.

LEMON: Are you optimistic about what will happen?

SHULMAN: Yes. It's been a long couple of days since all this happened. We were we were watching, just like everyone else, on Thursday. We were ready with our notice to call a special meeting.

I think we've heard loud and clear from people in Nashville, across the state of Tennessee and across the country that, yes, democracy needs to be served. These two gentlemen need to be sent back immediately to the Tennessee statehouse.

LEMON: All right. Let's be clear for our audience. A rules change is to reinstate Jones this evening and you want to see him reinstated. You saw the divide. It was along party line. So, you think that the Republican-leaning members will vote for Jones to be reinstated? SHULMAN: So, the state legislature has about three or four weeks left before they adjourn for the summer. We very much want that District 52 to be represented. And so the way to do that is to immediately vote someone and put them back in. And he is the choice.

So, I think what will happen hopefully today is an example of what happened, that no one -- we won't have any objections and we will be able to move promptly and send him right back.

LEMON: So, let's just say, and you're optimistic about it, but what if the measure to reinstate him fails? What recourse do you have left? And what recourse does he have to regain his seat, if any?

SHULMAN: So, from our standpoint, it's a rule. It's a council room. We're not changing the rules. We're just suspending it. Rule 49 says that the vice mayor at the next council meeting after there's a vacancy in an elected position announces the vacancy, we will do that tonight. And then we're supposed to wait four weeks.

Typically, this happens because someone neither changes office, or someone passes away and clearly waiting for nominations come in. In this case, I think the council pretty clear about who we want to put in that position. It's Justin Jones.

And if we get objections to suspending the rules, then we're back on rule 49 and we'll have to wait four weeks. If that happens, then we'll see if there's something else that we can do. But I believe that the council is going to suspend the rule for tonight if they're going to vote to send him right back.

LEMON: So, listen, you had two black members, right, both black young men, and then you had a white woman who was not -- who was spared, right, Gloria Johnson was spared, expelling Jones and Pearson has been labeled as racist. It certainly looks that way on its face if you just look at the actual fact of it. Do you think race played a role in what happened to these two young black members?

SHULMAN: Well, I know, a number of the members (INAUDIBLE) of the statehouse. I certainly hope that wasn't the case, but it doesn't look good on its face.

LEMON: Are you concerned about political or financial retribution for the state here?

SHULMAN: For the state? Sure.

LEMON: How so?

SHULMAN: I mean, we've got national attention for something that that at least I believe should never have happened. I know that you have to have rules and procedures. We have them just like in the council. We have rules just like in the statehouse. So, you've got to follow the rules. But, you know, if people do something that violates decorum of the chamber, there are simple things that can be done that, you know, that handled that situation. Voting to expel members from a legislative body is not the answer. [07:30:01]

LEMON: Well, Vice Mayor, we appreciate you joining us. We would like to offer you the opportunity to come back regardless of what happens.