Return to Transcripts main page
CNN This Morning
Ireland Celebrates Ties to U.S. Presidents; David Pepper is Interviewed about State Legislatures; Paul Beckett is Interviewed about Evan Gershkovich's Detainment. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired April 11, 2023 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[06:32:41]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, I may be Irish, but I'm not stupid. I married a Dominic Giacoppa's daughter. And he used to have an expression. He said, if you're lucky enough to be Irish, you're lucky enough.
Every St. Patrick's Day, every Irishman goes out to find another Irishman to make a speech to. Well, that's why I'm here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: There's a lot of green in that audience. Did you see that?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: So much green. I'm wearing green today. I don't know if any U S. president has ever quoted Irish poets as much in speeches as Biden does -
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: As Biden.
COLLINS: But you can basically bet on it every time he speaks.
LEMON: He's -- at the White House do they call him President O'Biden (ph) on - I'm guessing (ph).
COLLINS: OK. That was really good, actually.
All right, as we are saying, President Biden's Irish heritage is no secret. In just a couple hours, he is going to leave the White House to visit his ancestral home. The president's great, great, great grandfather left Ireland for the United States back in the 19th century after the potato famine. Now his distant cousin, who actually still lives in the family's hometown, says the community is pulling out all the steps ahead of the president's visit.
CNN's own Irishman, Donie O'Sullivan -
LEMON: O'Sullivan.
COLLINS: Is live in Belfast, in northern Ireland. Donie, I mean, this is kind of amazing to see that you're on this
trip. You're welcoming, you know, Biden, who's known as the most Irish president since JFK. What's it like? What's it like being on the ground so far? How are people preparing for his -- him to come?
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's been a lot of fun, Kaitlan. I don't know what you're saying that this White House job is so difficult.
It's been 60 years since president -- it's been 60 years since President Kennedy came to Ireland and started a tradition of American presidents coming here to track their Irish heritage. And Ireland has some unusual ways of honoring U.S. presidents. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm currently at probably the most highly regarded landmark in Ireland.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome to Barack Obama Plaza.
O'SULLIVAN (voice over): It's become a viral favorite on TikTok. On the side of an Irish motorway, a rest stop named after President Barack Obama.
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Hello, Ireland. My name is Barack Obama of the Moneygall Obamas.
[06:35:02]
O'SULLIVAN: Barack Obama Plaza was built here in the tiny village of Moneygall, where Obama's ancestors immigrated from in the 19th century.
OBAMA: I suspect you don't always dress up this much.
O'SULLIVAN: Obama visited the village in 2011.
OBAMA: Cheers.
O'SULLIVAN (on camera): That makes you guys -
HENRY HEALY, EIGHTH COUSIN TO FORMER PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Eighth cousins.
O'SULLIVAN: OK.
HEALY: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN: And what's your nickname?
HEALY: He gave me the nickname Henry VIII.
O'SULLIVAN (voice over): Henry Healy is Obama's distant cousin and is now a manager at the Barack Obama Plaza. O'SULLIVAN (on camera): I think it definitely raises some eyebrows in
the United States when they hear there is a rest stop at the side of a highway named after an American president.
HEALY: There does be some shock and awe. The cardboard cutouts that we have here are phenomenally popular.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thousands cheer with the enthusiasm that only Irishman can muster.
O'SULLIVAN (voice over): Ireland's love affair with U.S. presidents began when President John F. Kennedy visited his ancestral home here in New Ross County, Wexford, in 1963.
O'SULLIVAN (on camera): And you were sitting in the front row?
MARK MINIHAN, IN CROWD FOR JOHN F. KENNEDY'S 1963 SPEECH IN IRELAND: I was about, I'd say, maybe 10, 15 yards out there.
O'SULLIVAN (voice over): Mark Minihan's dad was mayor of New Ross at the time and was to introduce Kennedy to the crowd.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you hear me now? Can you hear me?
O'SULLIVAN: Some of the microphone stopped working just as JFK arrived.
MINIHAN: The microphones broke down just before he started. So, he was even more uptight.
O'SULLIVAN (on camera): The microphones broke down?
MINIHAN: The microphones broke down when President Kennedy was only over at the -- coming along the street here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're in right trouble now.
O'SULLIVAN (voice over): The technical glitch was eventually resolved and the speech ended up going ahead.
JOHN F. KENNEDY, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: It took 115 years to make this trip.
O'SULLIVAN: A trip which included a visit here.
: So this is the original farmyard. The president -- the president's great grandfather, Patrick Kennedy, left from. He actually left through that gate, the same gate -
O'SULLIVAN (on camera): Oh, wow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: During the famine when he went off to Boston.
O'SULLIVAN (voice over): Like many Irish Americans, Kennedy's great grandfather immigrated to the United States during the Irish potato famine. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he decided to come back to Europe and show that he was proud of his peasant roots.
O'SULLIVAN: Kennedy began a tradition of presidential visits to Ireland. Reagan visited in 1984.
RONALD REAGAN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: So many Irish men and women from every walk of life played a role in creating the dream of America.
O'SULLIVAN: The interiors of this pub in Reagan's ancestral village of Ballyporeen were eventually shipped to California to the Reagan Presidential Library. Now perhaps the most Irish of Irish American president is about to visit the country. And his cousins, the Blewitts, here in Ballina County Mayo are getting ready.
O'SULLIVAN (on camera): Tell us how you're related to the president, first of all.
JOE BLEWITT, IRISH RELATIVE OF PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: So, my dad is his third cousin. So, his great, great grandfather, Edward Blewitt, left Ballina in the 1860s. And he went to - moved to Scranton.
O'SULLIVAN: Girls, how does it feel to be related to a president?
EMILY BLEWITT, IRISH RELATIVE OF PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: It's very exciting.
LAUREN BLEWITT, IRISH RELATIVE OF PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Yes.
E. BLEWITT: He's president.
O'SULLIVAN: And have you met him before?
E. BLEWITT: Yes, we've met him twice.
LAUREN BLEWITT: Yes, we've met him twice, yes.
O'SULLIVAN: What did he say to you?
LAUREN BLEWITT: He was just - he was just eating our chips and when - when fancy meals came out, he just wanted the chips and chicken nuggets, so -
O'SULLIVAN: He was stealing your chicken nuggets?
E. BLEWITT: Yes.
LAUREN BLEWITT: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN (voice over): Biden's ancestors, the Blewitts and the Finnegans (ph), immigrated from counties Mayo and Louth.
O'SULLIVAN (on camera): Your dad and Joe Biden are third cousins.
LAURITA BLEWITT, IRISH RELATIVE OF PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN: But you seem to be the favorite cousin.
BLEWITT: I don't know why but, well, maybe it's just my personality.
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hi, everybody.
O'SULLIVAN (voice over): Biden has visited Ireland in the past and Laurita Blewitt has made multiple trips to the White House. But this would be the first time they will welcome him to Ireland as president.
LAURITA BLEWITT: We've struck up a great friendship since the first day that we met. You know, his family, we're steeped in Irish traditions. He -- you know, he talks about it all the time. And so he tells great stories of growing up and basically growing up in an Irish household, even though, you know, obviously, they were very much American.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN (voice over): From accepting the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
BIDEN: You know I can't let a comment go by without quoting an Irish poet.
O'SULLIVAN: To accepting the Democratic Party's nomination for president.
BIDEN: The Irish poet Seamus Heaney (ph) once wrote -
O'SULLIVAN: Biden always seems to have a line of Irish poetry to hand.
BIDEN: But then, once in a lifetime, the longed for (ph) tidal wave of justice can rise up and hope and history rhyme.
J. BLEWITT: And he's just so proud of the Irish roots. Like he's really proud of his Irish roots. And, yes, we've had the other presidents, but this president is more important, I think, to Ireland than the rest of them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'SULLIVAN: Now before President Biden travels south to the Republic of Ireland, he's going to land here this evening in Northern Ireland on the 25th anniversary of the Good Friday Peace Agreement, which was a huge accomplishment, but it - it is still quite an uneasy peace here. There is still a lot of tension and the power sharing government, that former government that was set up under that agreement currently isn't functioning. But after that, he'll be here a bit of today and tomorrow and then we'll move south to see his cousins, that you saw there in that piece.
[06:40:07]
And I guess if he's lucky, guys, if he's like Obama, the Irish might name a rest stop after him.
COLLINS: We'll see. Donie, a trip with major political but also personal significance.
LEMON: Yes.
COLLINS: Thank you so much, Donie.
LEMON: No stealing of chicken nuggets.
Thank you, Donie.
O'SULLIVAN: Thanks, guys.
LEMON: Appreciate it.
So, it may be rare and unheard of, but what's playing out in Tennessee happens more often and closer to home than you might think. Next, resuming out and taking a look at super majorities in state houses across the country.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUSTIN JONES (D), TENNESSEE STATE REP.: Today, we're setting a resounding message that democracy will not be killed in the comfort of silence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Was reinstated, Tennessee State Rep Justin Jones addressing supporters outside the state capitol in Nashville. Jones and fellow Democratic lawmaker Justin Pearson were removed from their seats last week in the state legislature by the Republican majority for participating in a gun reform protest in the house chamber, accused of breaking decorum.
[06:45:08]
Let's step back. How did we get here in the first place? Our next guest says it's emblematic of what's happening in a lot of state houses across the country.
Joining us now, David Pepper, the author of "Laboratories of Autocracy: A Wake Up Call from Behind the Lines." Also the former chairman of the Ohio Democratic Party.
David, it's good to be with you.
I think, you know, I've loved your book for - I don't know, it's been out for a year and a half, two years, but I think what's happened in Tennessee shines a light on what you write, the reason you wrote this book is, wake up America, you're not paying attention to what's happening in states. You're talking too much and focusing on D.C.
What do you make of Tennessee, big picture?
DAVID PEPPER, FORMER CHAIRMAN, OHIO DEMOCRATIC PARTY: Yes, it's - yes, it's absolutely true. I mean the front line of the attack on democracy in this country are the statehouses, like Tennessee's, like Ohio's, like Florida's, for a lot of regions. No one's paying attention. Most people have no idea who these state reps are. They're gerrymandered to a hilt, so there's almost no choice or democracy in these places.
You know, for example, the Tennessee Republican majority that voted those two out last week, more than half of them didn't even face a contested election last November. They ignore laws in Ohio. They violated the constitution to gerrymander their own districts.
If we saw, in another country, all the things that these state houses were doing here, we would literally say, you're losing your democracy. But because it happens here, we really don't pay attention to it.
We also get really blinded by Washington. You know, there are hundreds of people just like Marjorie Taylor Greene in office in these state houses, but they're not just on Twitter, they're not just talking like she and George Santos are, they're actually passing laws every week attacking democracy. So, we really have to focus on these statehouses, bring some light to them, and, more importantly than that, brings some accountability to all these people who are behaving in ways that should counter democracy in its most basic sense.
LEMON: You make a very good point when you talk about what happens -- often happens in silos, and it doesn't get the media attention as what's happening in Congress. I think that's very important.
So, I want to show you what happened. This is in the Florida state houses as a committee debated a bill that would make it a misdemeanor for people to use certain bathrooms that don't align with their sex at birth. Listen, this is a Republican lawmaker making these comments that are deemed offensive and transphobic.
Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEBSTER BARNABY (R), FLORIDA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: And Lord rebuke you Satan and all of your demons and all of your imps will come and parade before us. That's right, I called you demons and imps.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, he is calling people names, pejoratives. He did later apologize. But is there a political incentive to using rhetoric like that?
PEPPER: Yes, once you realize, like that Tennessee state house, that most of these quote/unquote elected officials are in districts they can never lose, once you see that there's no accountability at all at the general election level, every incentive these lawmakers faces is to be an extremist. You would have done worse as a Republican in a gerrymandered district last week to vote with Democrats not to expunge those lawmakers. That's actually a risk for you to lose your office, but you get ahead by being an extremist. So, in these states that are locked up through gerrymandering and
voter suppression and uncontested races, what you see is all the incentives aligned for the worst behavior, which is why we see this downward spiral towards extremism, against democracy, and pushing forward bills that are deeply unpopular. That's another really important point here. Polls show us that Tennesseans support the very common sense reforms those protesters and those legislators who were kicked out support. So, so much of this activity, done by these right wing legislators - legislators, are done against the majority will of the citizens of their state.
So, these are institutions that are locked up and they're advancing an extreme agenda and ignoring the people of the very states that they're in. All of this happens once you have a world, like these state houses have become, of zero accountability because of districts these people can't lose.
COLLINS: But, David, how much of this has to do with local media and the fact that it is shrinking on what's like a daily basis? My home state of Alabama, the three major papers aren't publishing, this happened recently, in the way that they were. How much does that have to do with this, where local reporters don't have a platform and the resources to report on things like this?
PEPPER: It's a massive contributor. The average state house has three reporters covering it. And the local -- and that's sort of the larger state house paper -- papers with state house bureaus. The local papers that serve smaller towns are just dying. We know that. And those were the papers that would have covered, here's what your local state rep did or has been doing.
[06:50:04]
You add those two things up and these places are largely anonymous. No one knows who their state reps are. They don't know what the state budget does. They don't know how that new law impacts them. And so it's really dangerous, whenever you have a whole lot of power and total anonymity. And that's what these state houses have become. So, the shrinking of local media, not - again, the big papers that have state house bureaus, but especially the small papers that would have given you coverage of that legislator from your district, those combined to be a real problem.
Throw into that the fact that a whole lot of these people literally don't face a contested election on -- in a November, like the ones in Tennessee. That means that no one ever covers these people. They're not even an election. There's no one knocking on doors saying what they've done. Then -- that anonymity really creates a problem that -- you know, and, by the way, if your goal in life is to get some really bad things done, then a state house turns out to be the perfect place to do it because no one's paying attention. Go to the state house, you'll get it done. Go to Washington, you guys will cover it. Papers will cover it. So, if you want to get bad stuff done, you go to the places that no one's covering. So, yes, it's a big part of the problem.
LEMON: All right, David Pepper, it's a pleasure having you on. Thank you.
COLLINS: Thank you.
HARLOW: Thank you.
LEMON: "Laboratories of Autocracy."
HARLOW: It's a great reading and your point about the media is so, so, so -
LEMON: Yes.
COLLINS: See it every day.
HARLOW: Local media is so spot on.
LEMON: Yes.
And this morning the State Department is declaring that "The Wall Street Journal" reporter Evan Gershkovich is being wrongfully detained in Russia. How this could help the efforts to bring him home.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:56:04]
LEMON: So, we have some major updates in the case of detained journalists Evan Gershkovich. Russia is still denying the U.S. counselor access to "The Wall Street Journal" reporter. A violation of international law. And the State Department is also formally declaring Gershkovich wrongfully detained nearly two weeks after his arrest. He was detained last month on a reporting trip and charged with espionage, charges the U.S. government and "The Wall Street Journal" denies.
So, joining us now is "The Wall Street Journals" bureau chief -- Washington bureau chief Paul Beckett. He has been working with Evan's family, "The Wall Street Journal" attorneys and the U.S. government to get Evan released. We thank you for joining us this morning. Appreciate it so much.
PAUL BECKETT, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": Thank you.
LEMON: Good morning to you.
So, what additional resources are now at your disposal with the U.S. now classifying this as -- him as wrongfully detained?
BECKETT: The wrongful detention designation essentially makes him a hostage of a foreign government. Up until this point, it was an issue for consular affairs, as with any distressed American abroad. In this case, it will now make him a hostage, and it gives the U.S. the ability to negotiate for and secure his release. It allows the State Department to work more closely with Congress, to work with private parties if necessary and expands the range of options that can bring him home.
LEMON: I want to ask you about something. Just yesterday, when this news broke, the Dow Jones CEO Almar Latour said this about keeping it in the news and breaking the news. He was at an event last night. I want to play this and then get your response.
Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALMAR LATOUR, CEO, DOW JONES: Well, so this is a punch in the face of free press. And so what can you do is, you know, keep on focused -- being focused on this, focus on -- on Evan's release. But also keep voicing your support. I mean Evan himself has gotten word of someone of the support that has been offered and he's thankful for that, as we have heard from -- from our lawyers, his lawyers. And so this matters for him. It matters for his family. And it matters for media.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I wonder how much that will help, just keeping it in the news. I know on the website and on the app, if you go there, his story is front and center and you have to scroll by it. Same thing, you're keeping it on the cover of the paper. You must keep this in the news so that it doesn't pass. How much does all of this help, this deeming it -- him wrongfully detained and keeping it in the news as the Dow Jones CEO said there?
BECKETT: Well, we've been extremely grateful for the support of journalistic colleagues both in the U.S. and around the world. It's, for us, as colleagues of Evan's, it's shed some light on our - or provided some light in a very dark situation.
I think it's very important to maintain awareness of his case because we know in previous cases this can go on for quite a long time. We're obviously very hopeful that he can come back a lot sooner than that, but we have to brace for the long term.
And raising awareness of his plight also raises the fact that this is an attack on the free press. You know, Evan was a -- one of a small number of reporters in Russia covering a vitally important story, and this is what happens, the government nabbed him on bogus charges and he's now sitting in a solitary confinement in a Moscow jail.
HARLOW: We had his friend, Pjotr Sauer, who's a fellow journalist with "The Guardian," on last -- last week, and I was so struck, Paul, by what he said. You know, he described Evan as sort of an all-American kid, but we know he was born to parents who fled Russia. And then he said he thought it was his duty to keep reporting, but now I think it's our duty to really let the world know what's going on with Evan's conditions. It's striking sort of the full circle for his family here. And I know you've been speaking to them.
BECKETT: I have and they're incredibly stoic, but incredibly disturbed. Obviously, they were Jewish immigrants from the Soviet Union. [07:00:03]
They came, Evan was born and grew up in New Jersey. His parents now live in Philadelphia.
