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Mike Rogers is Interviewed about the Document Leak; Appeals Court to Rule on Abortion Pill Access; Doctors Prepare for Abortion Ruling; Workers Grapple with Inflation. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired April 12, 2023 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[06:30:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LLOYD AUSTIN, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Nothing will ever stop us from keeping America secure.
We take this very seriously and we will continue to investigate and turn over every rock until we find the source of this and the extent of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, the investigations into leaked Pentagon documents is taking shape. The documents, some of which U.S. officials say are authentic, expose the extent of the U.S.' eavesdropping on key allies, including South Korea, Israel and Ukraine. The documents also reveal the degree to which the U.S. has penetrated the Russian ministry of defense, and they appear to divulge key weaknesses in Ukraine's defense. Officials are saying that it could take months to complete -- to complete their investigations, but the intel community will do everything in its power to get to the bottom of what happened.
So, joining us now is a former House Intelligence chairman. Mike Rogers.
Good morning, Chairman. Thank you so much.
Listen, there's so much, you know, to talk about here as to how this happened, you know, is there too much access to classified documents. But your key concern here is the damage to our allies. Good morning. Thank you for joining us. But that is your key concern.
MIKE ROGERS (R), FORMER CHAIRMAN, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Yes. Good morning, all. And, good morning, Don.
Yes, absolutely. And part of that reason is because this is relatively recent information about an ongoing conflict. It wasn't older information that is embarrassing but you can get over. This is in real time. And it's causing problems for our allies today. You know, there were some really sensitive leaks about, you know, different activities happening in and around Ukraine. That hurts our allies. And it does hurt our credibility a little bit. They - they're going to start asking about what they share and how they share it. And this happened after WikiLeaks, but this is going to happen again. And it's going to take a real effort by the administration to go and try to patch this thing up.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: You've made the point that the intel doesn't tell the whole story, which makes it, I would assume, even more problematic in terms of our relationship with allies because they're not seeing the full picture. Oh, and, by the way, the White House says, we don't even know if this thing is over.
ROGERS: Yes, it would be my guess, Poppy. Listen, there's no way that this individual doesn't have more information tucked away somewhere. I will guarantee that's the case. And so they're always worried about this nother -- another wave of leaks. And, you know, the way it was -- it was leaked -- we saw in years past terrorist organizations use gaming chat rooms to communicate because they were, again, trying to get around U.S. intelligence and allied intelligence, trying to figure out what they were doing. And it was very clever. And so this is really in that same vein. So this is -- some people would look at it and say, that wasn't very sophisticated. I would look at it and say, that's pretty sophisticated. They have -- they're trying to move these documents in a way that would kind of get around intelligence services collecting on them and seeing this information to move it along.
So, more information is likely there. I know that's what they're worried about in the Pentagon today when they get up this morning. And trying to tighten this noose as fast as you can without stopping operations because, you know, they're in the middle of supporting a nation that's trying to defend itself against Russia. That's a -- that's a lot of moving parts. And so you've got to keep those parts moving and you've got to try to find out who -- and I'm going to guess they're compromised in some way. I don't think this is ideological given the information that they leaked. This is somebody that was probably compromised by an intelligence service and/or volunteered for an intelligence service -- foreign intelligence service to give this kind of information.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Wait, can you repeat that last part again, that's how you think this -- that's your suspicion of how this leaked?
ROGERS: You mean from the individual?
COLLINS: Yes.
ROGERS: I'm going to - this is, again, my old FBI training background.
COLLINS: Yes.
ROGERS: This is somebody who was probably compromised by a foreign intelligence service and/or volunteered to a foreign intelligence service to release information. That would be my guess. And if I were running the investigation, you'd want to start there. And there are certain things that you could look for to see if somebody would fit in this pattern that would -- that would start to narrow down the pool of people because, remember, thousands of people have to see this to do the things they do.
COLLINS: Yes.
ROGERS: And so you've got to start narrowing it down as fast and quickly as you can.
COLLINS: And I know you said that's just a guess, but you have better insight on this than most people.
[06:35:02]
And when it comes to, as this investigation is ongoing, how they patch this up, and they being the U.S., with allies, Biden is welcoming South Korea for a state dinner in just a matter of weeks. How does that work given they are clearly the most outraged so far? You know, what does that look like behind the scenes right now, you think?
ROGERS: Oh, there's a lot of patching up going on. I think they've assigned somebody from the administration to kind of cover the -- you know, the apology tour, if you will. And if you remember, I was chairman during the Snowden leaks. And I, too, went to -- into the EU and to have some hard knock conversations about some things.
But I will -- and so what happens is, first of all, you have to kind of walk through exactly what you're doing with our -- with that foreign allies, South Korea. Here's what we're doing to do it to catch this individual, to try to stop the leak. And, by the way, you know, we'll help you in any way we can through the aftermath, both politically and otherwise, in any way we can. You know, I hope those are the conversations that are happening with South Korea. They -- you know, we still have important business with them.
COLLINS: Yes.
ROGERS: Remember, China is rising up in this -- in the - in the South China Sea. South Korea is going to be a part of that. So we really need to be lashed up as tight as we can with those allies. And we just can't afford to have anything drifting apart. That's what was so damaging about these leaks.
HARLOW: Yes.
LEMON: Chairman, I hate to do this to you because we're up against the clock here, but I just want to go back to something. You said that this is probably someone who is compromised. That differs from what defense officials -- senior defense officials are saying that they believe behind the leak was. They're speculating that it was a Pentagon official's child wanting to show off to his friends since this first showed up on social media and gaming -- in the gaming platform Discord. Do -- you disagree with that theory wholeheartedly, or you think that's possible?
ROGERS: Well, listen, the hardest part, Don, is, all of that could be possible. The problem is the weight -- and I just, if you're going to do the investigation, you have to look at it as somebody's compromised and you take it from there. Saying that it was a child that had access to classified information would scare me even more about how somebody's having access to classified information around their household. That would worry me.
This is -- I believe that they're going to find that somebody was moving this. We have seen this tactic used before. And that's what they should keep in mind when they start this investigation.
LEMON: All right.
HARLOW: Chairman Mike Rogers, thank you very, very much. You certainly know a lot about how things like this happen, and the fallout. A lot of patching up to do, as you said. Thank you, sir.
LEMON: Thank you.
HARLOW: Ahead, the latest legal developments in the medication abortion fight and what this all means for people who need that care now. We will explain, next.
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[06:42:03]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JB PRITZKER (D-IL): One ideological federal court judge should not be able to dictate to the entire country, and particularly to women across the United States, whether they can use abortion medication.
Women across America understand that their rights are being infringed upon. That they're under attack.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That was Democratic governor of Illinois, JB Pritzker, last night when I was asking him about that judge -- that judge's decision in Texas. It's the decision, of course, that would invalidate a judgment from the FDA and limit access to a widely used abortion pill. An appeals court is giving the Justice Department and the manufacturer of that abortion medication until noon to respond to a filing from anti-abortion doctors who want to leave the ruling in place. The court could rule as soon as today on whether or not to freeze the order. Obviously, right, we are watching all of this closely.
CNN's Joan Biskupic joins us now.
Joan, obviously, the big question is how this is going to play out in a few hours because even lawmakers and governors have said, let's wait to see what the courts decide in this situation before we weigh in and say, you know, whether or not the FDA should ignore this ruling.
JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: That's absolutely right, Kaitlan. Good morning.
We are one step closer to a decision by a regional appellate court, the Fifth Circuit, who's looking at the federal district judge's invalidation of the FDA approval of the first pill in the two drugs medication abortion. The Fifth Circuit has just received the filing from the original challengers who want that order to go into effect this Friday, which could affect abortion access nationwide. As you said, the other side has until noon. The Department of Justice has asked that the Fifth Circuit actually decide this by Thursday so that if it denies a temporary stay on this it can go to the Supreme Court and get the Supreme Court to intervene so that women have access to the drug at this point.
One way or another, Kaitlan, this case will eventually be before the Supreme Court, and it will be a test of just how far they will go to lift the ability of women to get abortions medication nationwide after their original decision, rolling back the constitutional right to abortion last summer, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes, seeing the ramifications of that decision.
Joan, I know you'll be watching it. Thank you.
BISKUPIC: Thanks. Thank you.
HARLOW: So, while this court battle continues over access to Mifepristone, doctors are still prescribing alternatives, right, in case this drug is banned. Doctors are now saying another pill used in that two-pill abortion procedure is safe and effective when used alone.
Let's talk about this with CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen.
Misoprostol is the other one. And you're supposed to use them both together, right? But can you explain if Misoprostol works on its own and what that means for women.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, Poppy.
So, let's talk a little bit about how this all works. So, first, let's start with this because I think a lot of people don't realize this. About 53 percent of abortions in the United States are done with pills.
[06:45:03]
So, not with surgery, but are done with pills. And it's two pills, as you mentioned. The first one is Mifepristone and then the second one is a pill called Misoprostol. The Texas judge's ruling, if it -- if it doesn't get blocked or changed in any way, it would get rid of Mifepristone for women all over the country no matter what state you live in. That would leave doctors only with Misoprostol to use in miscarriages and abortions. That's another important point, which is that these drugs are used not just for abortions but also in miscarriage care. And so what would end up happening is a woman with just get Misoprostol.
And that's a little problematic. It's not as effective and it does have more side effects. So, I was speaking to doctors who said, look, we'll use it and we'll do it if we have to, but it's not the best care for our patients.
Let's take a listen to Dr. Erika Warner. She is head of obstetrics and gynecology at Tuffs Medical Center.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ERIKA WERNER, CHAIR OF OBSTETRICS AND GYNECOLOGY, TUFFS MEDICAL CENTER: We train to try to keep people healthy. Give them the most evidence-based care. And this ruling really jeopardizes that. We're feeling demoralized. We're feeling scared for our patients. It's just really hard when you know you can't do the thing that is the safest for your patients.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COHEN: Dr. Werner told me that she is heartbroken that because of a single judge's ruling she can't give her patients the best care.
HARLOW: Elizabeth, thank you for explaining that. I think our viewers, obviously, have a lot of questions as this proceeds. Thanks.
LEMON: Certainly do.
Low wage workers are making more money than ever, but inflation is eating that extra cash up. Some waiters and cooks can't even afford the food and drinks they serve. So, what is the solution?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Do you think that some of your employees should be paid more?
JON FRASER, CHEF AND OWNER, JF RESTAURANTS: Should is a very difficult way, too -
YURKEVICH: Should if you could?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:51:04]
LEMON: Welcome back to CNN THIS MORNING, everyone.
In a little less than two hours, the government will release new inflation data. We're going to bring you those numbers once we get them. But economists expect the numbers to show that price increases continued to cool last month. But, we don't need to tell you this, inflation is still stubbornly high. And even though some workers have gotten a bump in their wages, data shows it's just not enough.
Our Vanessa Yurkevich spoke to some of the workers. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Valvin Nicholson works as a cook in a Manhattan skyscraper, but he lives here in Brooklyn in his mom's third floor apartment because he says his wages aren't keeping up with rising costs.
What are we making?
VALVIN NICHOLSON, UNION COOK: We'll make sweet chili salmon.
YURKEVICH: How old were you when you had your first job in the kitchen?
NICHOLSON: Nineteen, twenty.
YURKEVICH: Do you remember your first job, how much you made?
NICHOLSON: Eight something.
YURKEVICH: How much do you make now per hour?
NICHOLSON: Twenty-three and change.
YURKEVICH: So the $23 that you make an hour now -
NICHOLSON: It's not enough.
YURKEVICH: It's not enough.
NICHOLSON: You've got to pay, you know, car notes on insurance is very expensive. Food and everything.
YURKEVICH (voice over): Nicholson, originally from Jamaica, says his co-workers, many who are immigrants too, feel the same way, especially as inflation sits at 6 percent.
In their new contract with their employer, Sodexo, a food service company, union workers are asking for a minimum of $20 an hour for everyone. Food service workers make about $14 an hour on average and low wage workers and other industries aren't far behind. Women, black and Hispanic workers are disproportionately low-income earners.
YURKEVICH (on camera): Before the pandemic, it was high income earners who typically saw the greatest wage gains compared to low-income earners. But during the pandemic, it was low wage workers who saw the greatest gains, up 9 percent compared to 4.9 percent for the highest earners, and just 2.4 percent for those in the middle.
DANA PETERSON, CHIEF ECONOMIST, THE CONFERENCE BOARD: There are two factors driving increases in wages among low wage workers. The first is minimum wage increases amongst a number of states and also labor shortages.
YURKEVICH: Does that mean their wages are rising right along with inflation?
PETERSON: Well, no, wages haven't actually been catching up with inflation.
YURKEVICH (voice over): This is the industry table. One table held each night at four of Michelin star chef John Frasier's restaurants exclusively for restaurant workers. They get 70 percent off the bill.
JON FRASER, CHEF AND OWNER, JF RESTAURANTS: So, if I could put myself in the position of dishwasher, because I was one -
YURKEVICH (on camera): Yes, were you?
FRASIER: I was one, there's no way that I could have afforded this restaurant on that salary.
YURKEVICH: Do you think that some of your employees should be paid more?
FRASIER: Should is a very difficult way too -
YURKEVICH: Should if you could?
FRASIER: Should if we could, of course, right.
YURKEVICH: Yes.
FRASIER: Said everyone, everywhere, all the time.
YURKEVICH (voice over): But in order to make that happen, the consumer would have to pay more.
FRASIER: Are you ready to pay $55 when you go out for a chicken? Probably not.
NICHOLSON: Hopefully by then, when we meet again, we're able to come to agreement.
YURKEVICH: Valvin hopes that comes with a raise. Sodexo posted about $750 million in net profits last fiscal year.
NICHOLSON: I came to the U.S. for American dreams. Yes.
YURKEVICH (on camera): Do you feel like you are living the American dream? No. I mean, not really. Right now it's like you're living from paycheck to paycheck.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YURKEVICH: And Sodexo, for their part, says that they feel like they have made some progress with these workers, meeting their demands. They believe they can come up with a fair contract.
But back to the industry table, this is a chef who wants to have restaurant workers from across the country, from dishwasher all the way up to other chefs, come in, eat at his restaurant. He feels like it's a way to say thank you for what these restaurants did during the pandemic, but also a way to say, hey, we know you can't afford to eat here at these prices. [06:55:07]
Let's do something to be able to say, hey, we want to support you in the end. It's a really interesting experience. He wants this to go national. He wants other restaurants to get involved.
HARLOW: I love that.
YURKEVICH: It's an interesting way to talk about wages in a climate where it's everything right now.
HARLOW: Yes.
LEMON: That would be great if it did go national.
YURKEVICH: Yes.
LEMON: Thank you, Vanessa.
YURKEVICH: Thank you.
COLLINS: Also right now we are following this. You see these images. That is toxic smoke that is spewing into the air in Richmond, Indiana.
HARLOW: That's wild (ph).
COLLINS: It's been happening for several hours. Officials now say the burning of the plastic could last for days. We have crews headed to the scene right now at this moment. We'll bring you the latest on the ground ahead.
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[07:00:00]
