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CNN This Morning

Massive Fire in Indiana Forces Approximately 2,000 People from Their Homes; Body Camera Video Released of Officers Attempting to Stop Shooter at Bank in Louisville; Rep. Mike Turner (R-OH) Interviewed on Classified Pentagon Documents Leak and Justice Department Turning over to Congress Classified Documents Found in Possession of Former President Trump, President Joe Biden, and Former Vice President Pence. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired April 12, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

SARA FISCHER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST: And by the way, Poppy, to your point that he had eluded that maybe another court for another time, the court of public opinion will be revisiting that decision at another time.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Sara Fischer, thank you so much.

FISCHER: Thank you.

LEMON: CNN THIS MORNING continues right now.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. What you are seeing there is a huge fire that is raging at recycling plan in Indiana this morning. It is filling the air with toxic smoke and has forced thousands of people to evacuate. CNN is live on the ground.

LEMON: We also have this for you. Louisville police releasing intense bodycam video of officers confronting the mass shooter at the bank on Monday. The police chief says their actions saved lives. We're going to bring you the video next.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Take a look, live look at President Biden speaking now in Northern Ireland on a historic visit. We'll take you there live.

COLLINS: But first, we'll go to that massive fire in Indiana where about 2,000 people are being forced from their homes right now as this fire is continuing to rage. CNN's Omar Jimenez is live on the ground in Richmond, Indiana. Omar, I know you just got there. I see that you're wearing a mask. What is it like on the ground there? And what are you hearing from officials?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes Kaitlan, for starters you could see this huge plume of smoke as you were driving into Richmond, Indiana, here coming off the highway for miles. You really couldn't miss it. At this point we do know that has been burning for quite some time and is expected to burn for days. The state fire marshal here says this smoke is definitely toxic given the plastics that are burning and the chemicals they give off when they burn.

And I want to give you an idea of their efforts right now. I'm going to step out just for a second so we can adjust for this sun. You can actually see fire crews spraying water on the edge of this fire right now. This is at the border of the factory. You see them using their ladder, essentially, to get a high vantage point and get that water down into where these flames are burning. We've been told that the fire is contained in the sense that it's not spreading to other parts of this city for now, but their efforts now are trying to whittle this down, again, for a blaze that they do expect to burn for days.

Thankfully, everyone who was said to be inside this fire has been accounted for, or inside this factory, I should say, has been accounted for. Now, as for what specifically caused this, we still don't know, and officials are trying. They think they'll have a better clue once this dies down. But we did hear from the fire chief that the owner of this building is someone that they had cited multiple times previously, and that this behind me is frustrating for the fire chief. And to use his words, we knew it wasn't a matter of if. It was a matter of when this was going to happen.

So a lot of questions here, including air quality questions. You see, obviously, how high this smoke is going, and even though cars are still going back and forth, these evacuation orders affecting about 2,000 people so far in this 35,000-person town. But the air quality report is something that we are waiting on this morning. We were told sometime around daybreak, and obviously it will help give some significant clues to how much of an issue this is going to be not just for this part of Indiana, but obviously the surrounding areas as well.

COLLINS: Yes, that's about the same size of the town where I grew up in Alabama, and so I know people have concerns about that. You just said that they had been cited before. Do we know exactly what this facility had been cited for, what those citations were, Omar?

JIMENEZ: That's going to be top of the list for our questions for the fire chief. We're expecting an update from the host of officials here in just about an hour or so. We're told they're going to give us an update. And that's, of course, top of the list, because whenever this may have been, it seems like this facility was on their radar before. To what extent we do not know, for what specific reason we do not know. But again, that quote of it was a matter of if, but when is pretty striking to come from a public official who deals with fires. But he's been quoted as saying this is the biggest fire he's ever had to deal with. And based on the size and the scope of what you can see from the air, from driving in, it's probably the biggest this area has ever seen as well.

COLLINS: Yes, all right, Omar, please stay safe and keep us updated on what you do learn. Thank you.

LEMON: We'll continue to watch that as we're watching Louisville as well. We are now seeing bodycam, police bodycam video of the intense shootout between officers and the mass shooter at the bank in Louisville. The video comes from the body cameras of two officers who rushed in to confront the gunman. One is a rookie who was shot in the head. The other is this training officer who killed that shooter.

[08:05:02]

CNN's senior crime and justice correspondent Shimon Prokupecz, he's here now to break down what the video shows. And a warning to our viewers. This video we're about to see, very disturbing.

Good morning to you. Walk us through this video and what it shows.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So we're going to start with that rookie officer, Officer Wilt. We see his body camera footage here first. He is driving, and almost immediately when they get to the scene here, Don, you'll start to hear, you see the gunshots. You can hear them, and that's when the partner, Officer Galloway, is telling him to back out. And almost immediately, and I just want to stop here for a second. You see Galloway here, he's the training officer. He goes to the trunk to retrieve his long rifle.

Almost every police department now because of active shooter situations, they ride around with these rifles now to respond to these types of situations. It's part of their training, and almost immediately you see, that's what Officer Galloway here, what he does. And then now, look at his video. They are being shot at, and it's just remarkable, the fact that they are facing gunshots, the fact that they're being fired on, they still go towards those gunshots, they go towards the threat to try and eliminate.

And that is where you see that rookie officer with just four shifts, 10 days on the job. He gets shot. He goes down. But Officer Galloway is also shot. He is grazed, and then he runs down. He realizes that he needs to get behind something, and he gets behind this pillar here, and he is still taking gunshots, trying to get site onto the gunmen. He eventually shoots and kills the gunman.

What is really remarkable here, also, Don, is the fact that they could not see the shooter. They couldn't see him. They were basically fired upon. It was an ambush. They could not see him, and he was able to shoot them. Both of them were shot. Luckily, Galloway was only grazed.

And then here's a bystander footage, and then you see here more of some of that action as they're trying to get towards the shooter and take him out.

LEMON: They could only just guess where it was coming from, the trajectory of the bullets.

PROKUPECZ: That's right.

LEMON: And it was just from their experience.

PROKUPECZ: Because of the way the glass is set up here, they could not see inside, and this gunman was just waiting there. It's just remarkable to see these officers do this in this way, go towards the gunshots, knowing full well that they're putting their lives at risk doing what they're supposed to do. As the deputy chief here, said, Don --

LEMON: I want to play with the deputy chief had to say. Listen to this, Shimon, and then we'll talk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEPUTY POLICE CHIEF PAUL HUMPHREY LOUISVILLE METRO POLICE: What you saw in that video was absolutely amazing. It's tragic, but it's absolutely amazing. There's only a few people in this country that can do what they did. Not everybody can do that. They deserve to be honored for what they did because it is not something that comes easily. It is not something that comes naturally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PROKUPECZ: When I heard him say that, it made me think of Uvalde.

LEMON: I was going to say, what the difference between this and Uvalde, what do you think?

PROKUPECZ: For me, listening to him say that, it just it sounded to me like he was addressing that issue, the fact that you have officers here going towards the gunfire, they don't retreat at all. They just keep going. Eventually, they have to take cover. In Uvalde we saw a situation where officers did go forward. They started going towards the gunshots, but the minute they felt a threat and they saw the gunshots, and one of the officers got grazed. They retreated. They hid. And for 77 more minutes, we know what happened. They waited and waited. They wanted more gear. They wanted more equipment.

These officers didn't have shields. They didn't have helmets. One, the rookie officer only had --

LEMON: Gosh.

PROKUPECZ: Yes. That's where he goes down. He gets grazed there. And he keeps going. He doesn't stop. And that is so remarkable.

LEMON: Definitely brave. They run into danger. Thank you very much, Shimon Prokupecz.

After the show, Kaitlan is going to head to Kentucky to sit down with Governor Andy Beshear. That interview is going to air tonight at 9:00 on CNN primetime. Poppy?

HARLOW: Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin speaking for the first time about the leak of highly classified Pentagon documents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LLOYD AUSTIN, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Nothing will ever stop us from keeping America secure. We take this very seriously, and we will continue to investigate and turn over every rock until we find the source of this and the extent of it. Sources also tell CNN this joint probe with the DOJ could take months to finish, in part because there are thousands of people who had access to these documents. Something CIA director Bill Burns addressed last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL BURNS, CIA DIRECTOR: There are things that we need to do better, of course. I think there's a serious problem of overclassification, sometimes, in the U.S. government as well, which is something that I think needs to be taken on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: These leaked documents included recent intelligence on the war in Ukraine, very recent, and U.S. spying efforts on allies and enemies.

[08:10:01]

HARLOW: Let's talk about this and a lot more with Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Republican Congressman Mike Turner. He received a briefing, of course, on the leaked documents yesterday. Congressman, Chairman, thank you very much for your time this morning.

REP. MIKE TURNER (R-OH): Good morning.

HARLOW: The fact that we just heard Secretary Austin say there are other documents out there. They don't know if there are, there may be, really echoes what we heard John Kirby at the White House say, right? We don't know if this is over. What is your level of concern?

TURNER: Well, obviously, there's great concern as to anyone who might have access to classified documents who would commit an act of espionage, which is what this is. Secretary Austin made clear this individual will be tracked down. If they're American, they're a traitor, there'll be taken -- they'll certainly be brought to justice.

But the aspect of what are in these documents, the content of these documents, is what's troubling and what really requires action. Although these documents are static, they're a picture of a specific period of time, it does allow us to have some flexibility in working with Ukraine, and with the United States to try to change the outcomes, change the circumstances that are reflected the documents, obviously, to continue to support Ukraine, and giving it an advantage.

But the fact that people do have access to these documents that they might have continued access is why we need to find where this leak is coming from to prevent future damage.

HARLOW: You were just in Ukraine meeting with President Zelenskyy last week, and part of what this document shows is just how pessimistic the U.S. outlook is for Ukraine, even more pessimistic than folks high up have been saying publicly. They detailed perceived weaknesses in the ranks in Ukraine in terms of military weaknesses. Do you think that this could alter Ukraine's plans in fighting this ongoing war?

TURNER: I'm glad you raised that point because that really is kind of misleading. I was just, as you said, in Ukraine, and I met with both our service members and officials from NATO. There's actually a great deal of optimism. In order to be able to support Ukraine, in order to be able to support outcomes and strategy, you have to first decide and review critically what are your weaknesses? You have an ability to impact the outcome of those weaknesses.

So I think anybody who looks at these things, this means that these outcomes will be negative is just drawing the wrong conclusions. These are working documents for us to be able to impact.

HARLOW: I will see General Milley said a few weeks ago that the belief is not that Ukraine can win the war this year. I know you've said, well, you don't think Russia can either.

I do want to ask you what you think of CIA Director Bill Burns, though, saying there's a serious problem of overclassification. Do you agree?

TURNER: Absolutely. And part of the problem with the overclassification is the American public, and sometimes even the rest of Congress doesn't get a real picture of what's going on, and it inhibits the ability to have a discussion and a debate. I think that this is probably one of the number one things that we need to do is get information out in the public discourse. We certainly have seen this with respect to Russia information that we've had, classified information that we put out that has changed the outcome of this fight. So it does have an impact the moment you can take classified information and put it out in the public in a positive way, not in an espionage way as this was.

HARLOW: Staying on the issue of classified documents, but other classified documents, Trump, Biden, former Vice President Pence, you another top lawmakers overseeing the intelligence community have finally, after quite a while, gained access to classified documents found improperly at the hands of all three of those leaders. Can you talk to us about what you've learned in terms of potential damage they could cause if they fall into the wrong hands? I know there's a lot you can't say. But now that you've seen them --

TURNER: I can give you some conclusions.

HARLOW: Yes.

TURNER: Yes, sure. And I haven't personally seen them. My staff had begun working with them.

HARLOW: Fair.

TURNER: I'll see them when I return back to Washington next week. But what I can tell you so far is that of the documents that have been released, which is just a small portion of the overall documents, there is no imminent national security threat that's evident in any of them.

HARLOW: In any of them? And they have looked, your staff has looked at all of them? TURNER: In any of these documents, right. And the ones that we have

been given -- now, we've only been given a portion of them, so we'll have to see what else comes later. But what's also just very disingenuous on the part of the Department of Justice is they've given us these without identifying which person that they were taken from. Now, obviously, you can kind of tell by context. But at the same time, the Department of Justice is not being forthcoming here. They're not being fully disclosing.

But what they have disclosed right now shows no imminent national security threat from any of the documents that have been released to Congress.

HARLOW: We know some of the documents that were found were found and finally taken from Mar-a-Lago in August of 2022 were marked with some of the highest classification markings there are, and this is what Trump's former attorney general Bill Barr had to say Trump should be most concerned about in terms of the multiple probes against him. Here was Barr on Sunday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM BARR, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I think he was jerking the government around, and they subpoenaed it, and they tried the jawbone them into delivering the documents. But the government is investigating the extent to which games were played, and there was obstruction in keeping the documents from them. And I think that's a serious potential case. I think they probably have some very good evidence there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:15:00]

HARLOW: Do you think he's right, that this poses a real threat to Trump?

TURNER: Well, he's a former attorney general. And he's talking about the crux of the case itself. And of course, I'm looking at the issue of national security and its documents. So, we're coming at it from a different perspective. But I really do think all of these individuals have exposure. You know, as you recall.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: I know, but I really just -- respectfully chairman, want to stay focused on what Bill Barr just said about former President Trump. And what --

TURNER: I am -- I am.

HARLOW: -- we now know is an obstruction probe.

TURNER: Right. So, what I -- what I'm trying to give to you is also an understanding that both President Biden and for President Trump have special prosecutors that are reviewing these cases. Both of them are reviewing the issue of how these documents come into their hands. How are they handling?

HARLOW: Yes, huge difference.

TURNER: Whether or not there was obstruction. Yes, and well --

HARLOW: You -- wait, can you point to any --

TURNER: -- you know, President Biden had his apparently for six years.

HARLOW: OK, can you just --

TURNER: Six years.

HARLOW: OK. They're very different, especially in terms of how the government got their hands on the documents for four months after a subpoena. Trump still had classified documents. The subpoena was in May of 2022, they finally had to go in there in August and get the documents. That is not at all what happened --

TURNER: Well, I'm not defending either of any.

HARLOW: -- as President Biden's documents.

TURNER: I'm not defending any of this --

HARLOW: How about your -- acquitting them.

TURNER: It's clearly improper handling of classified doc.

HARLOW: But --

TURNER: What you're -- what you need to understand, though, is there are two criminal cases that are ongoing, criminal cases. One against President Biden and one against former President Trump. Both of those, I think, are very serious cases.

HARLOW: Yes.

TURNER: And from what we see in the manner in which these documents were held, President Biden holding him for six years and even having some behind his Corvette in his garage. President Trump not responding to subpoenas and negotiations with the FBI. I think for both, there are very serious issues as to the handling of classified documents.

HARLOW: OK.

TURNER: Let me say this on our committee, we've taken up this issue, because we believe that there are statutes that need to be changed. So, that we can impact how Presidents, Vice Presidents when they're leaving office handle classified documents. Because this is absolutely improper handling of classified documents.

HARLOW: OK, I would just note in the probe of the Trump documents. The obstruction part of it, The Washington Post is you know, several weeks ago reported that investigators have gathered text and video. That they believe indicates that Trump himself looked through contents of those boxes, after the subpoena.

I want to end on guns, because this matters a lot. Look at the shooting in Louisville. Look at the shooting in Nashville. In Louisville, AR-15-style rifle used legally purchased. You are one of 14 House Republicans who voted last year to pass that bipartisan bill to address gun violence. Your daughter was across the street in that horrific mass shooting in Dayton, Ohio. You endorsed a ban on military style weapons. Why won't more Republicans agree --

TURNER: And the sale.

HARLOW: The sale of them, why won't more? Help us understand why more Republicans will not get on board with what you believe is needed?

TURNER: Well, I don't really think it's just a partisan issue. As you know, since the -- since the Clinton ban on the sale of --

HARLOW: Assault weapons?

TURNER: -- military style weapons expired. It was since it expired.

HARLOW: In 2004.

TURNER: Not one speaker, not Democrat, not one Democrat, not one Republican speaker has brought to the floor a bill that would extend that ban or renew that ban. Now, I absolutely --

HARLOW: President Biden has repeatedly called assault weapons ban chairman. President Biden has repeatedly talked about this.

TURNER: There has not been -- there has not been one Democrat or one Republican --

HARLOW: Yes.

TURNER: -- speaker who has brought to the --

HARLOW: Right.

TURNER: -- to the floor. The bill to renew --

HARLOW: I'm asking you about your party.

TURNER: Bill Clinton ban that expired.

HARLOW: I'm asking you about your party and why you think more fellow Republicans will not agree to an assault weapons ban that you think is needed.

TURNER: Well, I don't think Democrats are agreeing to it either, is my point there. This is not passing out of conversation.

HARLOW: Do you think --

TURNER: It's not like this is not a bipartisan impediment. If you've got both Democrats -- HARLOW: You don't think Democrats have called for that?

TURNER: -- and Republicans are providing this bill from occurring.

HARLOW: OK.

TURNER: Nancy Pelosi could have brought this bill to the floor at any moment and has never done so.

HARLOW: OK, I wanted to -- try and to get an answer about your fellow Republicans on something you think is very important and is clearly very close to you. So, I appreciate your time this morning, Chairman.

TURNER: I think the -- I think the -- I think the opposition is bipartisan. I absolutely do.

HARLOW: You think it's equal -- OK. We're out of time. Thank you very much.

TURNER: Nancy Pelosi could have brought this bill --

HARLOW: I don't think --

TURNER: -- at any time to the floor.

HARLOW: We appreciate your time, Chairman Rogers (sic), thank you.

TURNER: Well, you know that's the case. You know that's the case.

HARLOW: Thank you, Chairman. Don.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR All right, Poppy, thank you very much. Another Republican exploring a possible White House run. How Senator Tim Scott stacks up against the other contenders.

[08:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: That as President Biden just wrapped up remarks at Ulster University in Northern Ireland, marking the 25th anniversary of the Belfast. Good Friday Agreement, something he has prioritized made it the top of his conversations with every British Prime Minister since taking office. CNN's Phil Mattingly is travelling with the president live on the ground. Phil, what have you seen so far?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kaitlan, you make a really good point. It seemed like every read out of every conversation you had with any Prime Minister included the very important note about his views of the Good Friday Agreement. The necessity of maintaining the stability and the semblance of peace that has transpired over the course of the last 25 years. And that was in large part, the central focus of his remarks, but also not just a look back, but instead a look forward. And it's worth noting his remarks happened at Ulster University and a glass building that is made up of about 44 basketball courts worth of glass panes, something that at the height of the troubles would have been completely unthinkable. It was something the President pointed out to underscore the progress that has been made. But that progress currently stands at a very complex moment. Obviously, in the wake of Brexit, there have been negotiations about the hard border and where trade would stand between Northern Ireland, the U.K. and Ireland and the E.U. There had been progress on that with the Windsor framework but also still the very real political difficulties here.

The leadership of the five political parties in Stormont were present, including those of the one party that remains currently boycotting the power sharing government. It's basically lifted more about over the course of the last year. Well, the President wasn't trying to put his thumb on the scale, at least not publicly was urging the power sharing government to come back together, to work as an institution. More than anything else, pledging that the U.S. will remain behind Northern Ireland underscoring the critical nature of Northern Ireland in terms of its roots and attachment to the United States. And making clear that perhaps more than anything else, business investment and United States investment will certainly be there and only grow.

[08:25:05]

Should they continue to make progress on that front? Kaitlan, as you know, quite well, this was one of the probably most difficult aspects of a trip that in large part will be a personal, very deeply personal trip to the President trying to navigate things here in Northern Ireland. This speech, really trying to thread a needle to some degree worth noting. He does plan to meet personally, individually, with each of those five political leaders in the hours ahead before heading down to Dublin. Trying to make some progress here while not being seen as weighing too far one way or another, and what remains a complex political environment.

COLLINS: Yes, and also noting it was a rare moment of bipartisanship in Washington. On this issue, Phil Mattingly, I know you'll continue tracking the President. Thank you.

LEMON: All right, here at home Republican Senator Tim Scott this morning officially announcing his presidential exploratory committee watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): I will never back down and defense of the conservative values and make America exceptional. And that's why I'm announcing my exploratory committee for President of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, we go from the actual President of United States to someone who wants to be president. And our Kristen Holmes joins me now. Good morning to you. Another name potentially entering the field. What else do we know about this exploratory committee, Kristen?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Don. We'll just take them one step closer to a formal 2024 presidential bid. And I will note that once he does, if he does, announced a formal run in 2024, Tim Scott will be a formidable opponent. He is the most prominent black leader in the Republican Party. He's wildly popular, he's a dynamic speaker. He's also proven himself to be an impressive fundraiser. He's currently sitting on more than $20.00 million in his Senate account that can be transferred over to a presidential bid. The other thing about Tim Scott is that he has a powerful life story. One of the things he touched on in that video, take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT: I was raised by a single mother and poverty. The spoons at our apartment were plastic, not silver, but we had faith. We put in the work and we unwavering belief that we too, could live the American dream. I know America is a land of opportunity, not a land of oppression. I know it because I've lived it. That's why it pains my soul to see the Biden liberals attacking every rung of the ladder that helped me climb.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now, Don, one thing that Tim Scott doesn't have that some other 2024 Republican hopefuls do is that national name recognition. And that's something that this committee could help with raise his national profile before he actually formally launches. And that's something he's capitalizing on. We're going to see him campaigning in some of these early voting states, Iowa today, New Hampshire tomorrow and his home state of South Carolina on Friday.

LEMON: All right, Kristen Holmes in Washington. Thank you.

HARLOW: Kristen, thank you so much. I have to go to D.C. I know.

LEMON: We're like, what?

COLLINS: We're like, what?

HARLOW: We're heading to D.C. I'm going to interview the Director of the National Economic Council, Lael Brainard. We'll play on the show tomorrow but to get there in time.

LEMON: Yes.

HARLOW: I handed over to you.

LEMON: Yes.

HARLOW: Ahead, we're going to talk about the dire new assessment of the crisis at the Colorado River, as water levels plummet there. Lucy Kafanov is live from the Colorado River Basin.

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, life out west wouldn't exist as we know it without the Colorado River. And although we've had a lot of snow this year, it hasn't been enough to overcome decades of drought and climate change, our report on the Dire options facing Western States coming right up.

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