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CNN This Morning

Trial Begins in $1.6B Fox News Lawsuit Tomorrow; Interview with University of Minnesota Media Law Professor and Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press Former Executive Director Jane Kirtley; Holocaust Survivor Shares Her Story Ahead of Remembrance Day; Compared to Average, CSU Anticipates Weaker Atlantic Hurricane Season; At Least 56 Killed In Fierce Clashes Between Sudanese Forces; Fighting In Sudan Stems From Rivalry Between Generals; G7 Diplomats Meet In Japan For Summit On Ukraine, China & N. Korea; Debt Ceiling Tops Agenda As Congress Returns This Week; House Democrats Call For Hearing On Abortion Pill Ruling. Aired 7-8a ET

Aired April 16, 2023 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: 7 foot player. Wow.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yes.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: You going to be out there with this pollen?

WIRE: We'll be inside.

BLACKWELL: OK.

WIRE: This yellow pollen is --

WALKER: It's just me and Coy that are -- were suffering. You're just fine.

BLACKWELL: I'm the only one who can breathe on this show.

WALKER: Yes, we got the watery eyes, we got the sniffles.

BLACKWELL: Let's check with Allison (ph) to see if she can breathe.

WALKER: Thank you, Coy.

BLACKWELL: All right. Thank you, Coy.

WIRE: You got it.

WALKER: And a programming reminder, what started with the disappearance of 20 people from a small town in Oregon ended with the largest suicide on U.S. soil. "The Cult of Cults" airs tonight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN.

And the next hour of CNN This Morning starts now. WALKER: Good morning, and welcome to CNN This Morning. It is Sunday, April 16th. I had to be reminded of that just a few minutes ago. I'm Amara Walker.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell. She was talking about yesterday on Sunday, and I'm thinking, we do the weekend show. Clearly, yesterday wasn't Sunday.

WALKER: Yes, I thought today was Monday?

BLACKWELL: She is with us. All right, thanks for spending your morning with us.

Here's what we're watching for you. At least 56 people are dead -- excuse me -- in Sudan. There were explosions throughout the night. Clashes between the military and an armed group are escalating. We'll tell you what we know about how this started and what the rest of the world is doing in response.

WALKER: Congress returns from recess this week with a laundry list of to-do items. Among them coming up with a plan to fund the government. A look at other major priorities for both parties in the coming days.

BLACKWELL: The $1. 6 billion defamation trial against Fox News starts this week. What's at stake for the company and why Fox apologized to the judge in the lead up to the trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I fulfilled my sister's wish because she always said, "You must survive because otherwise we never lived."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: Surviving against the odds. Ahead of Holocaust Remembrance Day, one survivor shares her story and her mission to make sure the horrors of the Holocaust are never forgotten.

And we begin this morning with the ongoing violence in Sudan. Medical officials say the death toll has risen to at least 56, with nearly 600 injured as clashes continue for a second day between Sudan's Army and a powerful paramilitary group known as the Rapid Response Force.

BLACKWELL: The two sides have been competing for power. The RFS, that leader says that they've claimed now seized 90 percent of the official sites in the capital of Khartoum. The Sudan's Army commander denies that and has accused the group of traitorous plotting. But civilians are caught in the crossfire and have been warned to stay indoors as warplanes are conducting sweeps in search for RSF troops.

WALKER: CNN's Larry Madowo has been following the developments. Larry, is a situation anywhere close to deescalating?

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Amara, it does not look like that. If anything, we are now well into day two of this violence, this heavy gunfire, in some cases explosions in other parts of the country, not just in the capital Khartoum, but also in the east. For instance, the port of Port Sudan which is the main seaport that a lot of the international trade in Sudan goes through in Darfur.

And so, it does not look like the situation is getting better. It appears to be getting worse. And especially because the two men who are to blame for this violence have taken very hardline positions. We're paying a lot of attention to Sudan because it's Africa's third largest country. It's also had the highest number of attempted or successful coups on the continent.

In this case, CNN is not describing this as an attempted coup. It is a power struggle between the two most powerful generals in Sudan. General al-Burhan runs the military, is the de facto lead of the country. And his rival, his number two, General Hemeti, runs the Rapid Support Forces, and they are in a battle for who will be the man in charge when the two fighting forces have to be combined.

I want to show you what's happened this morning. One is from the Rapid Support Forces using antiaircraft machinery to try and tackle those warplanes up in the sky. The Rapid Support Forces have been trained in the past and armed by Russia, so they are very well equipped, but they are outgunned by the airpower of the official Sudanese military and so that's what you see there -- this back and forth.

The second video is from overnight. This was posted by the Sudanese military claiming that its soldiers are celebrating after taking over the state television and radio authority. Whoever controls the state broadcaster can talk directly to the people.

So overnight, a lot of people reported hearing blast after blast after blast. In many parts of Sudan, people are sheltering, hunkering down. This is especially worrying because we're on the last 10 days of Ramadan. These some of the holiest days in the Muslim calendar. It's supposed to be a time of prayer and reflection, not this violence that we're seeing here.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken has said this undermines and threatens the security of Sudanese. In a statement, he says, "The only way forward is to reach turn to negotiations that support the Sudanese people's democratic aspirations. We continue to remain in close touch with our embassy in Khartoum and have full accountability of our personnel."

[07:05:10]

We also have been communicating with American citizens who may be in the region about safety measures and other precautions. Right now, African leaders in the region are scrambling to try and talk to these two men to go back to the negotiating table. All the leaders of the countries around Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea, Kenya, they've all been speaking to one or two of both of those men.

The African Union's Peace and Security Council has called an emergency meeting to try and find a way forward to this crisis. Amara, Victor?

BLACKWELL: Larry Madowo with the story there for us. Thank you so much.

Here with us now to discuss is CNN Global Affairs Analyst Kimberly Dozier. Kimberly, good morning to you. I want to start where Larry just ended, that African leaders are now asking for the head of the RSF, the head of the government there also to negotiate, to go back to the table. Is there any advantage? Does it behoove at all the number two who's ahead of the rapid support force here to negotiate if they're making these advances?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Unfortunately, when there's momentum on the battlefield, until one force or the other feels beaten, there's very little advantage going back to the negotiating table, as a general rule. In this situation, you've got a long simmering dispute that U.S. and various African nations have tried to tamp down over and over several years in a row, ever since 2021 coup.

And you've also got the forces of the ousted leader, Omar al-Bashir still playing out their rebellion against the civilian government that was installed in its stead. And of course, then the army overthrew that. And so basically, you've got a mess with not very clear lines of who has the influence over which side to try to get them to step back from the fighting.

And the fighting has gone into civilian areas. So it's really being felt by the people. It isn't just as the conflicts in some countries nearby have happened out in the hinterlands between the forces. This is really getting people in the crosshairs.

BLACKWELL: I learned some important context from Larry there, that of the 54 nations of Africa, Sudan has the highest number of successful or attempted coups on the continent. This, thus far, is by CNN described as a power struggle, as you said. But beyond the borders of Sudan, what are the ramifications, the consequences potentially for the U.S., for the global community?

DOZIER: Well, this is one of the things that looking on a more broad scale, the U.S. Intelligence Community has warned about. There are mineral resources across Africa, in Sudan, gold, in particular, according to a CNN investigation, has been plundered by Russia and used to fund its war against Ukraine.

So the more instability there is, the more it opens up these countries to things like corruption, bribery. And U.S. officials have said that Russia and China both take advantage of these situations. And when the U.S. tries to step in or the European Union and say, we'll negotiate peace, but you've got to honor human rights, you've got to cleave to certain norms of behavior.

Well, there aren't those kind of strings attached with the Russian and Chinese business deals or mercenary deals. And so you've got a situation where it's not a very level playing field when you're coming in and trying to force, quote, unquote, western values on the players.

Unfortunately, what happens is usually the two sides, when they're washing weapons with nothing to stop them, and no one with a lever on either side to get them to back off the fighting, just plays itself out.

BLACKWELL: Let's turn to this G7 foreign ministers meeting. U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is attending. There, obviously, is a lot to talk about. Of course, there's the ongoing war in Ukraine, Putin's war there. There's China as well, looking toward Taiwan and other issues with China.

But I wonder how concerned you believe that these leaders are about the leak of classified information here in the U.S. How much attention do you think that gets among these leaders?

DOZIER: Well, you would think that at the G7, the Biden administration's goal would have been especially to bring up the French president's visit to China and say, hey, why are you trying to make nice with China? Why have you offered them an opportunity to negotiate the end of the war with -- between Ukraine and Russia when every proposal China has put forward so far has been all in Russia's favor? It hasn't called for Russia's withdrawal from Ukrainian territory.

[07:10:11]

But the fact of the matter is, the Biden administration is going into this on the back foot with some embarrassing revelations again from another leaker, including revelations that certain leaders have been spied on, that's going to be uncomfortable for the Biden administration.

Also with revelation out there that still the Pentagon doubts the ability of the Ukrainian military despite funding them with billions of dollars of military hardware and providing training outside the country.

BLACKWELL: All right, we'll watch it for any news that comes out of that G7. Kimberly Dozier, thank you so much.

WALKER: All right, turning to politics now. This will be a busy week ahead for Congress. The debt ceiling deadline is just one of the major issues facing members as they return this week. President Biden and House Speaker Kevin McCarthy are locked in a standoff over raising the debt limit. Biden's message to McCarthy, show me your budget.

McCarthy holds a conference call with House Republicans today ahead of a speech tomorrow at the New York Stock Exchange. CNN Reporter Alayna Treene has more on the week ahead for McCarthy and Congress.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Good morning, Victor and Amara. The first big priority for Congress is the debt ceiling. Current estimates put the deadline for when the Treasury Department will exhaust the extraordinary measures it uses to pay the government's bills at some point early this summer.

President Joe Biden and House Speaker Kevin McCarthy have yet to hold substantial negotiations on this, something that has become a key point of anxiety for many members on Capitol Hill. House Republican leaders, I'm told, have begun informally putting together a debt limit package that they intend to socialize with their rank and file members next week McCarthy is also slated to deliver a speech on this at the New York Stock Exchange on Monday.

Another key priority on the Hill will be around receiving classified briefings. The Pentagon is scheduled to give an all senators briefing on Wednesday as they continue to investigate the massive leak of classified defense documents.

The Gang of Eight, which includes the top four congressional leaders, as well as the chairman and ranking members of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees, started receiving some of the classified documents found at the homes and offices of former President Donald Trump, President Biden and former Vice President Mike Pence in recent weeks. They're eager to review these documents more closely in a classified setting on the Hill.

Another key focus for Congress is on the recent abortion ruling in Texas. There's little that Congress can do following the court's decision to suspend the use of medication, abortion drugs, but Democrats in particular are eager to weigh in on this in person and see what legislation, including messaging bills. They can put forward to force Republicans on the record.

And lastly, House investigations are continuing to heat up. We're seeing more Republican chairmen begin to issue subpoenas as they enter into the fourth month of being in the majority. On Monday, the House Judiciary Committee will hold a field hearing in New York City as they continue to escalate their investigation into Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg.

WALKER: All right. Alayna Treene, thank you.

Some Georgia residents were told to evacuate their homes after a fire at a plant sent thick, black smoke into the air. And even after the fire was out, the danger didn't end there. We'll explain.

BLACKWELL: Plus, Fox News is preparing to defend itself in a landmark defamation trial that's set to start this week. A preview of what's at stake and why Dominion feels like it has a solid case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:17:30]

BLACKWELL: This morning, a huge plant fire in South Georgia is out. This is what neighbors in Brunswick saw Saturday afternoon after the resin plant there caught fire. Heavy black smoke billowed into the sky.

WALKER: That smoke caused officials to ask people across the entire city of Brunswick to either stay indoors or evacuate. CNN's Isabel Rosales joining us now here in studio. Isabel, so good to see you. So the evacuation orders have been lifted, but I guess the question is, is the air safe to breathe?

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And that is an excellent and valid question that, frankly, we've seen all over social media with residents asking exactly that. We've posed this question over to authorities in Brunswick and in Glenn County. But what we do know at this time is that the fire triggered a shelter in place and evacuation orders. That fire has then been out. Those orders have been lifted.

And again, those air quality questions are valid from residents there but we have not heard of any sort of complaints or any sort of issues with that. These concerns are raising questions over in Indiana, in Richmond, Indiana, where they've had a similar situation, a plastic recycling plant that caught fire there. Still hundreds of people there are waiting to hear back whether if they can return home.

Frankly, we do know that they're doing air and water quality tests to shape those evacuation orders before they lift those evacuation orders. Here, in this case, massive plumes of smoke. We've seen pictures of that in Brunswick, Georgia. That is in the southeast coast. This is a city of about 15,000 people.

This is the Pinova plant, which delivers raw materials used in other industries, specifically specialty rosin and polyterpene resins. These are derived from pine and other natural resources. We are told by the Glenn County Board of Commissioners that the fire originally broke out Saturday morning and then they contained that fire. But about three hours later, that fire reignited.

We are told by the Glenn County Board of Commissioners that they've received help from across state lines, the Jacksonville Fire Department, all sorts of agencies doing airdrops, doing foam operations, and that origin of the fire is still unknown. No injuries have been reported.

But of course, we'll continue to ask those questions about the air quality that we've seen in Richmond, Indiana, have been a major concern, but this does not seem to be the same sort of case.

BLACKWELL: All right, well, that's good news. Also, no injury is reported.

WALKER: Yes.

ROSALES: Yes, that's big.

[07:20:01]

BLACKWELL: Isabel Rosales, thanks so much.

ROSALES: Thank you.

WALKER: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Still ahead, Russia has been sending Ukrainians caught in the crossfire of the war to Russia's Far East. And CNN has been in contact with several Ukrainians that describe forced deportations. And we'll learn what life is like for them now. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) WALKER: Since the start of its war with Ukraine, Russia has moved thousands of Ukrainians away from the front lines. Ukraine says many of these are forced deportations, but Russia insists and claims it is a humanitarian effort.

BLACKWELL: A lot of the refugees are thousands of miles from their former homes, resettled in remote Siberian villages closer to Alaska than Ukraine. CNN Scott McLean is with us now. So you were able to contact some of these Ukrainians. What did they tell you about this transition and their new lives now?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So Victor and Amara, look, it took a lot of effort to get people to really open up and to share. And so the picture that we have of their lives is still somewhat incomplete, but there were definitely some common threads. Most everyone that we met was working class, spoke Russian, had Russian ancestry, and really had no ties to Europe that may have tempted them to seek refuge there.

[07:25:04]

The reality is that going to Russia, even to the Far East, was simply the path of least resistance for many people. And now that they're there and getting settled, the question is, will they ever go back to Ukraine? And even if they wanted to, though, some wonder whether they can.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCLEAN (voice-over): In the chaos of battle in Mariupol in eastern Ukraine, the civilians caught in the crossfire had few good options. They could either escape to Russia or take their chances as the war intensified. Many of those who fled toward Russia were encouraged to live and work in the Far East.

From Rostov, a 4,000 miles train journey to the edge of Siberia, and a town just a stone's throw from North Korea. These are some of the first arrivals stepping off government chartered trains a year ago.

(on-camera): Why does Russia want those people there?

NATHANIEL RAYMOND, HUMANITARIAN RESEARCH LAB, YALE UNIVERSITY: That's a great question. One is a propaganda benefit, positioning these people as somehow willingly seeking citizenship in Russia. The second benefit is that Russia simply needs bodies. In many parts of the country, they don't have enough citizens to make those municipalities function.

MCLEAN (voice-over): This hotel in the coastal town of Rangel (ph) was where new arrivals were put up at first. CNN reached several of them through a telegram group chat run by local volunteers keeping a log of resident requests from baby food and toys to medicine. Anyone dissatisfied with their stay is told sarcastically to take their complaints to Moscow, the Kremlin, Putin.

The Russian government has long been eager to populate its resource rich Far East, and the state has tried several experiments to attract settlers, including those from ex-Soviet states. It now promises fleeing Ukrainians cash, housing assistance, citizenship, and even free land. Though two people told CNN they were struggling to get the rent reimbursement they say the government had promised.

Natalia was struggling to find any housing at all, hardly enthused by her new reality.

NATALIA (through translator): Nothing's changed except the place. But I no longer have a job that I love and a home that I love.

MCLEAN (voice-over): New arrivals quickly had their Ukrainian passports swapped for Russian ones. Natalia figures she can't go back.

NATALIA (through translator): Because we are criminals there, because those who left for Russia are immediately considered criminals by the Ukrainian authorities. So I'm forbidden to go there.

RAYMOND: At this point, the absence of clarity is the biggest problem. There is understandably within Ukraine a absolute outrage against those who are perceived as collaborators. But the fact of the matter is that we are dealing here with a civilian population that was seeking refuge in a time of war.

MCLEAN (voice-over): Under the terms of Russia's relocation program, the Ukrainians are required to stay for at least three years. One woman, Marina, told CNN that after that, "We will see. It depends on the job and material well-being. So far, it's not very easy."

Another, Valeria said plainly that her family will stay in Russia, and I don't even want to think about Ukraine. In a statement, the Ukrainian Prosecutor General's Office told CNN that, "Safety and security of Ukrainian citizens is a major priority and that for many, the only safe passage was through Russia. Of course, they are not considered collaborators. They need to get to a third country and address a local Ukrainian consulate. It will issue them Ukrainian documents to return to Ukraine."

But for those who remain in Russia long term, the future is less clear. By Ukrainian law, people who publicly deny occupation or who call for support for Russian actions are considered collaborators. International law prohibits forcible transfers of people. Russia says more than 5 million Ukrainians have arrived in Russia since the full scale war began.

And while Ukraine says many were forcibly deported, some, like Oxana (ph), said they went willingly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We were saving our own lives.

MCLEAN (voice-over): Though they had few other options.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCLEAN: Now it is unclear just how freely people felt that they could speak to us, but some were very obviously on the side of Russia. One woman told us that she wants to go back to Mariupol one day to visit, but hopes that by then it is firmly part of Russia. Others had more mixed opinions or simply didn't want to answer questions about the war.

We did also reach out to Russia's Ministry of Internal Affairs, but we didn't get a response to any of our questions. Victor, Amara?

WALKER: Just remarkable reporting. Thank you so much, Scott McLean.

Coming up, the trial phase begins tomorrow in the $1.6 billion defamation lawsuit against Fox News brought by Dominion Voting Systems. The very latest on this historic case is next.

[07:30:00]

AMARA WALKER, CNN NEW DAY WEEKEND ANCHOR: The trial phase begins tomorrow in the $1.6 billion defamation lawsuit against Fox News brought by Dominion Voting Systems, the very latest on this historic case is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN NEWSROOM ANCHOR: It's the $1.6 billion question, will Fox News be held legally responsible for broadcasting lies about the 2020 election. The trial is set to begin tomorrow and the Fox News is being sued by Dominion Voting Systems. Claims that Fox that -- it knew that their election fraud lies damaged their company.

WALKER: It's an awkward start for Fox News, which has now formally apologized to the judge for earlier, denying that Rupert Murdoch held any official title at Fox News, which he does. He's the executive officer. The judge has said, he wants an investigation into whether or not Fox News lie to the court in that matter.

[07:35:00]

Marshall Cohen joins us with more on what we can expect at the trial. Marshall.

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: On Monday, we are expecting opening statements in Dominion Voting System's defamation case against Fox News. 12 jurors and 12 alternates will have a front row seat to history, and they'll have to decide if Fox is on the hook for potentially a billion dollars in damages.

Now, to understand this case, you need to go back to the 2020 election. After Donald Trump lost, Fox News put people on air who falsely accused Dominion of rigging the election by flipping millions of votes from Donald Trump to Joe Biden. That was a lie. And Dominion thinks it has the goods to prove that it was defamation too. The company has uncovered e-mails from Fox employees who said at the time of those broadcasts that the vote rigging claims were, and I quote, "Dangerously insane, mind-blowingly nuts, and complete BS." But Fox put it on the air anyway, and that's how we get to today.

So, the trial kicks off Monday in Wilmington, Delaware. Some of the biggest names in right wing media are expected to testify. People like Fox corporation chairman Rupert Murdoch, Fox News personalities Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity, and many of the top executives at Fox News as well.

So, for its part, Fox News denies all wrongdoing. They say that they are still proud of their 2020 election coverage. The network has argued that this case is a cherry-picked publicity stunt, and that Dominion is even are undermining the first amendment and putting press freedoms at risk. This trial in Delaware is expected to last, guys, about six weeks. Amara and Victor.

WALKER: Marshall Cohen, thank you. Let's talk to Jane Kirtley now, she is a professor of media ethics and law at the University of Minnesota, and she was the former executive director of the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press.

Welcome. Thank you so much for joining us. Look there seems to be --

JANE KIRTLEY, MEDIA LAW PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA AND FORMER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, REPORTERS COMMITTEE FOR FREEDOM OF THE PRESS: Thank you.

WALKER: -- a mountain of evidence that the lawyers for Dominion Voting Systems have amassed for this trial, including thousands of text messages and e-mails from Fox executive hosts and producers that showed that they didn't really believe much of those rigged election claims that they were broadcasting. How strong is this defamation case compared to others that have been tried?

KIRTLEY: Well, I think it's extremely strong because of this long digital paper trail of communications that would indicate, as you said, that many of the people higher up in the echelons and on down the food chain and Fox knew or arguably had reason to know at least that what they were publishing was false. And when I say publishing, I mean allowing, in this case, a third party to come onto Fox and to make these statements to be broadcast to their viewers.

WALKER: What do you make of that apology from Fox News? The formal apology to the judge for "Misunderstanding" Rupert Murdoch's role. I mean, first, they said that he didn't really have an official title. Now, the admission is that he actually is the executive officer, and clearly the judge wasn't buying that.

KIRTLEY: Well, it's never a good practice for a lawyer this early in the proceedings to aggravate a judge by not being candid. Candor is a requirement under any legal ethics canon, and that is a serious misstep. But in terms of the substance of the trial, I think the most important aspect of this is simply determining exactly what Rupert's -- Rupert Murdoch's role is in the hierarchy at Fox. Apparently, they did not represent that quick -- correctly to the judge in the first instance.

WALKER: You know, as I understand it, media outlets they rarely lose defamation cases. If that's correct, why is that the case?

KIRTLEY: Well, it's true that they rarely lose them on appeal. It's not that uncommon to lose at the trial level, but we have something here called independent appellate review, which means that if you lose below, you can always go to a higher court and asked the judge to review the evidence and to see if the jury, perhaps, acted not in accordance with the law. But in terms of why we ultimately prevail, it is because of "The New York Times" versus Sullivan standard, which is squarely on the chopping block in this case.

Since the judge has already ruled that most of the statements that Dominion is complaining about are actually false and not otherwise privileged. That means that the only real defense that Fox will have, going forward, is the actual malice test. If that test gets challenged going forward, if the U.S. Supreme Court decides to re-examine it, this could be an important ruling that would affect news media everywhere in the United States.

[07:40:00]

WALKER: Yes, I wanted to ask you more about that. This is clearly a high stakes case. You have said that no matter her how much you may personally deplore, those were your words, what Fox News has allegedly done, you worry about the long-term ramifications if Fox were to lose this case. What worries you?

KIRTLEY: Well, I think that for a lot of people, this is really a trial on what has happened since the election. The challenges to the election, the allegations about its integrity. People have very strong feelings about that, and I'm very sympathetic. And I'm also sympathetic to the view that Fox perhaps deliberately spread information that they had reason to know was not true.

But a ruling against Fox is not just going to be a ruling against Fox. I've seen a lot of news organizations and journalists saying, well, we would never do that. And perhaps they wouldn't do that exactly. But I think once you get in the business of plumbing the depths of the news gathering and reporting process, probably no news organization can emerge unscathed.

We don't have the kinds of canons of ethics that lawyers and doctors do. Reasonable people can differ about what good reporting is and what good judgment is. I am very reluctant to have court step in and basically become a tribunal on journalism, and that's the risk of an adverse ruling in a case like this.

WALKER: Fascinating. Jane Kirtley, we'll leave it there. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Coming up, CNN sits down with a holocaust survivor ahead of Remembrance Day. Her harrowing and heartbreaking story and her mission to make sure the world never forgets. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:45:00]

WALKER: On Tuesday, the U.S. will remember the victims of the holocaust and honor the survivors who remain with us. BLACKWELL: More than 6 million Jews and 5 million others were killed during the holocaust. CNN's Dana Bash spoke with a survivor ahead of this week's Day of Remembrance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDITH GROSS, HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR: I fulfilled my sister's wish, because she always said, you must survive because otherwise we never lived.

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): Edith Gross is a survivor. She beat unimaginable odds, endured the horrors of the holocaust and lived to tell her story.

GROSS: In 1944, we heard that the Nazis are coming.

BASH (voiceover): Edith was 15 years old living in occupied Czechoslovakia with her older sister and brothers.

GROSS: In the first week, we had to wear a yellow star. If you didn't put it on and you were caught, they killed you right away.

BASH (voiceover): As the Nazi grip on the country tightened, Jews were forced into ghettos and not allowed to run businesses. Then the transports to concentration camps began.

GROSS: They told us everything you can carry and you have to leave everything behind. We went for days. It seemed like for years. It was a nightmare, terrible. But finally, we arrived in Birkenau-Auschwitz.

BASH (voiceover): Many did not even survive the journey to the camps.

GROSS: When we arrived, we did see a smoking crematorium and the smell was terrible. I remember lining up and walking from the train into Auschwitz, and there sat Mengele with a little stick in his hand. First for women and then for men. And he directed the people. This way went to work, and this way went to the crematorium. I ran over to my brother and I gave him a big hug. And I could see his eyes. He was so frightened.

BASH (voiceover): Edith managed to follow her sister to the line. She never saw her brother again. After Auschwitz, Edith and her sister were removed to a forced labor camp.

GROSS: It was very, very hard labor. And there was a quota. And my sister always had back pain, so I was very fast. I always made sure that I made a quota.

BASH (voiceover): As the Russians began to close in on their location, the Nazis moved them again, this time to Stutthof Concentration Camp.

GROSS: Stutthof was a very, very rough place. Waking us up during the night and watching somebody being hung.

BASH (voiceover): Edith's sister became very ill. Her condition deteriorated rapidly.

GROSS: I remember she was on the other side of the electric wire and I was yelling Dwartija, my sister's name. I wanted a last glance because I knew we're never going to see each other again. And that was one of my saddest days, of course.

BASH (voiceover): The Nazi's becoming desperate amidst Russian advances started forcing the Jews on so called death marches.

GROSS: We didn't have any warm clothes of course. And no food, no nothing. And we started to march. People would just bend down, there were shot.

BASH (voiceover): They marched Stutthof to Danzig, finally reaching Konigsberg, now known as Kaliningrad in Russia, where they were liberated by Russian troops.

GROSS: Russia tanks arrived and they said to us, you are liberated.

BASH (voiceover): Edith slowly made her way back to Czechoslovakia, but there was nothing left for her in her hometown. She eventually ended up in America, where she enrolled in school and learned English. Edith now has seven grandchildren and eight great-grandchildren. Today, as more and more holocaust survivors pass away, Edith has made it her mission to continue to tell her story. She says, even if she changes one mind, she's accomplished something.

[07:50:00]

GROSS: Stop hate and takes people the way they are. That's my aim, too, because I have never, never thought that in my life I would see antisemitism again. And I'm shocked.

BASH (voiceover): Through the Chabad Organization in the town of Islip, Long Island, a community center was dedicated in Edith's honor. She recently took a trip to Israel, where she visited the Western Wall and Yad Vashem, the holocaust memorial. Though it has been 80 years since that horrible time, all that she has lost will always remain.

GROSS: When I hear holocaust survivors saying, I'll forgive and forget. No, there is no such a thing. I will never forget -- forgive and definitely not forget.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:55:00]

BLACKWELL: The Atlantic hurricane season just around the corner, and the first forecast is out. Colorado State University expects a slightly below average hurricane season.

WALKER: But there is more uncertainty than normal because forecasters are also predicting an El Nino this summer which could affect how many hurricanes we see. What does that mean? Allison Chinchar is here to explain. I guess, we can first begin with CSU's forecast and how many storms they are predicting.

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes. So, let's begin with the numbers themselves. So, they are forecasting overall 13 total named storms. Now, of that 13, we're talking six of becoming hurricanes and two that will end up becoming major hurricanes, which is a category three or higher.

Now, to put this in perspective, you know, the average in a year we see 14 named, seven hurricanes, three major. OK. So, it's really just barely below that cusp. But also, more perspective, we had an average year last year. They were forecasting above average, and then we kind of came back. We ended up ultimately with not that bad of a season. So -- and again, it also comes down to -- remember, it just takes one storm to really be impactful.

BLACKWELL: Yes, you remember most hurricane seasons by the biggest, most destructive one, and it could be a horrible season because of just that one storm. We're now under an El Nino watch. What does that mean?

CHINCHAR: Yes, because there's also an El Nino advisory.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CHINCHAR: There's all kinds of different terminology here. Basically, what a watch is it means favorable conditions for El Nino in the next six months. But in this particular case they're forecasting to happen in the summer, but when? That's the ultimate question. Because if it starts in May versus starting in August, there are huge differences there and what the impacts could be to hurricane season itself.

So, we know it's coming. We just don't know exactly when it's starting. That's why there was the caveat that even though we're forecasting below average, all of that goes out the window if El Nino is delayed in any way, shape or form.

WALKER: Interesting. So, are there any things people can and should do to prepare for this upcoming season?

CHINCHAR: Right.

WALKER: June 1st.

CHINCHAR: Right. So, just like we talked, it only takes one. So, you still need to prepare for this just like you would any other season, especially if you live along the gulf coast. Last year, we had an average season, but we still had two names that got retired, Fiona and Ia. And for those that lived through those storms, they don't care that it was just an average season.

So still, even knowing that, you're still going to have to go through all your checklists. Make sure you have everything just as you would any other year. And the list of names is new. We've got a couple new additions, obviously, because the letter F was replaced, the letter I was replaced. So, again, familiarize yourself not with the names but hopefully, again, at the end of the season, hopefully, none of those end up getting retired.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

WALKER: You know, not be complacent, just being in Florida, Miami for seven years, you know, these kinds of things you hear over and over. And sometimes you forget to actually prepare. Allison Chinchar, thank you.

BLACKWELL: Thank you.

CHINCHAR: Thanks.

WALKER: And a programming note for you, Nick Paton Walsh embarks on a treacherous journey through the Darien Gap. A lawless jungle, riddled with danger alongside migrants hoping for a better life on the other side. The first installment of the highly anticipated program, "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper" premieres tonight. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): And literally meters from Colombia, the ground turns.

WALSH (on camera): The people as they walk, just discarding their shoes. A real sense of the atmosphere changing now, we've crossed the border into Panama. People clumping together, perhaps fearing for their own safety. And this mud, it's just impossible, you can't get your feet out of it.

WALSH (voiceover): This man, who didn't want to be named, now with nothing on his feet, but his resolve. Pause and imagine where you've come from. If you're willing to do this barefoot with a woolen sweater and plastic bags, pierce your feet or break an ankle and this mud, maybe your grave.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): God help me. Give me patience.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper" premieres tonight at 8:00 on CNN.

Good morning. Good morning. Welcome to CNN this morning. It is Sunday, April 16th. I'm Victor Blackwell.

WALKER: And I'm Amara Walker.

[08:00:00]