Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

Trump Repeats Election Lies, Dodges on Ukraine and Abortion Ban; GOP and Undeclared Voters in New Hampshire Weigh in on Trump's Responses. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired May 11, 2023 - 07:00   ET



POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: The 89-year-old senator returned to the Capitol yesterday after a months' long recovery from shingles. In a statement, she said she's still experiencing some of the side effects. She'll be working a lighter schedule.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. But her return gives Democrats back their full majority. Some lawmakers from her own party have been calling on her to retire or resign, because without her vote, the Senate Judiciary Committee could not push through some of President Biden's key nominees.

Now, in her statement yesterday, Senator Feinstein said she, quote, looks forward to resuming her work from the committee.

HARLOW: CNN this morning continues right now.


JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Mr. Trump's falsehoods kept coming fast and furious.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Will you commit tonight to accepting the results of the 2024 election?

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Yes, if I think it's an honest election.

COLLINS: Did you ever show the classified documents to anyone?

TRUMP: Not really. I would have the right to.

COLLINS: There's a jury of nine people found you libel of sexual abuse. Do you think that that will deter women from voting for you?

TRUMP: No, I don't think so.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would be salivating if I were the attorneys for E. Jean Carroll, if I were Jack Smith.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kevin McCarthy says he will not support George Santos' re-election. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After being indicted on 13 criminal counts.

REP. GEORGE SANTOS (R-NY): The reality is it's a witch hunt.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: If the Ethics Committee finds that Santos broke the law, would you call on him to resign? McCarthy said, quote, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Biden administration is hours away from the end of Title 42.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They'll enter undetected if they have to just to get into the United States.

ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: We are making it very clear that our border is not open, that crossing irregularly is against the law.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The prime suspect in the disappearance of Americans (INAUDIBLE) Natalee Holloway in Aruba is heading to the U.S. to face charges.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Van der Sloot has been serving 28 years in a Peruvian prison for murdering the young student he met in a casino in 2010.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Curry spots up in the corner, got it. We are headed for a game six.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The drive off the window, slam down with the hammer.

The Knicks get it done at home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the playoffs. You've got to do whatever you can to win, which you watch as a kid.


HARLOW: Good morning, everyone. I'm glad I've been such a loyal diehard Knicks fan.

MATTINGLY: That was an amazing turnabout in the last 3.5 minutes, and impressive.

HARLOW: Right?

MATTINGLY: And like the self-confidence and just not even -- wow.

HARLOW: I had asked Phil if they won this morning.

MATTINGLY: Just kind of reminiscent to tell the (INAUDIBLE).

HARLOW: What a fair weather fan I am.

MATTINGLY: You're not fair weather. It's like if you're a Knicks, maybe you don't want to be all the way in at all times.

HARLOW: The only thing I care about is everything that comes from Minnesota, so the Timberwolves, the Twins, the Vikings.

MATTINGLY: How are they all doing? They're doing great?

HARLOW: Yes, great. Good morning.

MATTINGLY: To the news, Donald Trump facing critical questions from our own Kaitlan Collins as he runs for president again despite multiple criminal investigations and felony charges. Now, right off the bat, Trump refused to admit he lost the 2020 election, he did. He bad mouthed E. Jean Carroll just one day after a jury found he sexually abused and defamed her. Trump vowed to pardon January 6th rioters who attacked the Capitol. He took credit for overturning Roe versus Wade but then repeatedly, five times, declined to say if he would sign a federal abortion ban. And Trump wouldn't call Russian President Vladimir Putin a war criminal or say whether he wanted Ukraine to even win the war at all.

CNN's Chief National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny is here breaking down the highlights. Jeff, you've made this point repeatedly, he's not changing, he is who he is. What was your view of things last night?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Phil and Poppy. I mean, perhaps coming as no surprise to anyone who has been watching him, for Donald Trump, the second act is the same as the first, airing old grievances and attempting to rewrite history. The former president was acting as though he had already won the Republican nomination, spending almost no time on his GOP rivals or trying to broaden his appeal to voters. But he was aggressively pressed for the first time on a long trail of controversies that define the 2024 campaign.


ZELENY (voice over): Former Donald Trump picked up where he left off, lying about the 2020 election.

TRUMP: That was a rigged election and it's a shame that we had to go through it.

ZELENY: Trump made clear the 2024 presidential bid would follow the same script of his two previous campaigns, presenting himself as a defiant messenger unburdened by facts and unwilling to move on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you suspend polarizing talk of election fraud during your run for president?

TRUMP: Yes, unless I see election fraud. If I see election fraud, I think I have an obligation to say it.

ZELENY: He falsely said Vice President Mike Pence could have acted to overturn election results as the vote was certified on January 6th. Trump said he did not owe Pennsylvania an apology for failing to call off supporters, who threatened his life as they stormed the building.


TRUMP: No, because he did something wrong. He should have put the votes back to the state legislatures, and I think we would have had different outcome.

WAYNE BEYER, NEW HAMPSHIRE VOTER: My question to you is would you pardon the January 6 rioters who were convicted of federal offenses?

TRUMP: I am inclined to pardon many of them, I can say for every single one, because a couple of them probably they got out of control.

ZELENY: The audience of Republican voters at Saint Anselm College applauded for much of the night, even as Trump he belittled and demeaned former magazine columnist E. Jean Carroll, a day of after a New York jury found him liable of sexually abusing and defaming her.

TRUMP: I have no idea who the hell -- she's a whack job.

ZELENY: Pressed by Kaitlan Collins about whether the verdict would deter women from voting for him, he said this.

TRUMP: No, I don't think so.

ZELENY: Yet some Republicans believe otherwise, like New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu, who is considering a presidential bid of his own.

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU (R-NH): If you're a suburban mom, all these voters that Republicans are trying to bring back into the mix, I don't see any of them being convinced by anything because it's just kind of a same old regurgitation.

ZELENY: Seven months before voting begins in the Republican presidential primary, Trump is leading the field, even as he faces multiple legal challenges over interfering in the 2020 election and more.

Once again, he struck a defensive tone about that now infamous call to the Georgia secretary of state, searching for votes to put him over the top against Joe Biden, who narrowly won the state.

TRUMP: That election was rigged. And if this goes bad, why did him and his lawyers hang up? How dare you say that? This was a --

COLLINS: They clearly were concerned enough, they recorded the call.

ZELENY: He brushed aside questions of another probe involving classified documents taken to Mar-a-Lago.

COLLINS: When it comes to your documents, did you ever show those classified documents to anyone?

TRUMP: Not really. I would have the right to. By the way, they were declassified -- COLLINS: What do you mean, not really?

TRUMP: Not that I can think of. Let me just tell you, I have the absolute right to do whatever I want with them. I have the right.

ZELENY: That, of course, remains an open question and a key part of a federal investigation.

Trump took personal credit for the Supreme Court decision overturning Roe versus Wade, citing his three appointments to the high court.

TRUMP: And I was very honored to do it.

ZELENY: But he repeatedly dodged questions about whether he would sign a federal abortion ban.

TRUMP: I'm looking at a solution that is going to work, a very complex issue for the country. You have people on both sides of an issue.

ZELENY: On foreign policy, Trump once again showed his affinity for Russian President Vladimir Putin, declining to call for his punishment for leading the invasion of Ukraine.

TRUMP: If you say he's a war criminal, it's got to be a lot tougher to make a deal to get this thing stopped.

ZELENY: He also declined to say who he wants to prevail in the war, despite the U.S. and allies investing billions to help Ukraine defeat Russia.

COLLINS: Do you want Ukraine to win this war?

TRUMP: I don't think in terms of winning and losing. I think in terms of getting it settled so we stop killing all these people.


ZELENY (on camera): Shortly after this town hall, President Biden tweeted, do you want four more years of that? Of course, it is many months until we know if there will be a rematch. Trump still faces a Republican primary.

But on that front, he barely mentioned GOP rival at all, making only a passing and mocking reference to Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who's planning to jump in this race soon.

But with so much to digest, here's one more. When Kaitlan asked Trump if he would accept the results of the 2024 election, he declined to say he would. Poppy and Phil?

MATTINGLY: Jeff Zeleny, great reporting, thanks so much.

HARLOW: Let's talk about all of this, what happened last night, CNN Political Analyst and Senior Political Correspondent at The New York Times Maggie Haberman is at the table, also CNN Political Commentators David Urban, he's a former Trump campaign adviser, and Van Jones, the former special adviser to President Obama.

Good morning. I know no one got much sleep. Thanks for getting up. We didn't put you in the 6:00 A.M. hour, so that means we love you.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We appreciate it, very, very kind.

HARLOW: It's true.


HARLOW: You know that.

HABERMAN: I know from years, yes.

HARLOW: You know that. Maggie, you and Kaitlan, I think, are the journalists that know President Trump like the back of your hand, more than anyone else. What did last night tell you about the year-and-a- half ahead for the country?

HABERMAN: It's going to be ugly if Trump is the nominee, and I think that we could have anticipated that. I think that two things can be true at once. I think that Kaitlan elicited a lot of news from him. I think that he made a bunch of statements that certainly his party and members of his party are not -- elected officials in his party are not going to want to have to comment on, you know, his joking about the sexual abuse libel verdict in the civil case against him a day earlier. His abortion comment actually probably is not -- that's not the one that I think Republicans are going to be upset about. Him, you know, doubling down, again, on supporting the January 6th rioters. So, there were a lot saying that he -- he refusing to say who should win the war in Ukraine, that was really, really striking.

I think all of that was interesting in terms of just the political context, and in terms of the legal cases, he walked himself -- and Kaitlan was right there with him because she knows the cases really well, he walked himself into some trouble with the special counsel investigation into why he had all the documents at Mar-a-Lago.


I thought that was really, really important. I also think two things can be true at once, and it's true his team was really happy. They were happy with the reaction. They were happy with the crowd. They liked how aggressive he was. The Biden people also liked how aggressive he was because they think it helps him in a general election. There is a lot of time to go between now and then, Poppy, but all it tells you is Donald Trump has one spade, and this is the same Donald Trump that we have seen the first seven or eight years.

MATTINGLY: All I kept thinking last night was that famous like Dennis Green football coach press conference, where he kept saying, they are who we thought they were. He is who we thought he is. It's never going to change.

But you made a really important point here. If you take a step back, you're talking to Democrats, whatever their views on social media, there was a lot of Democrats saying this is gold for us, right? There's a text from a Biden adviser weeks' worth of damning content, it was quite an efficient hour. Can you -- can both be true, where the former president's advisers are thrilled, Republican primary voters are thrilled, and if you're a Democrat, you're watching that and saying we have got 50 attack ads based on one hour.

JONES: Yes. I mean, I think if you're a Democrat watching that, we've been criticizing and complaining about Biden? This is a horror show that we don't want a rerun of, and I think a lot of Democrats were appalled by his behavior, him throwing Ukraine under the bus. I hope he gets sued again this morning for libel and slandering everything else. It's horrible toward the people who have been on their side of these legal cases.

But, you know, I think that we've got to be careful here now because Trump has a particular trick that he uses with nostalgia. The whole make America great again is about -- there was this era that was wonderful, as 1950s, and I'm going to bring you back there. He's now using nostalgia about the Trump administration just a few years ago, everything was perfect. So, he's trying to own both the nostalgic past and a future he can bring you to, which leads Biden -- which started with the president and no place to go.

And so if you're a Democrat, don't get just thrown off by the motions here. He's got a rhetorical strategy. We've got to figure out a way to take that narrative away from him. The Trump years were not perfect. By far, they were not perfect, even before COVID. So, you begin to see how you can have to fight this guy in a general, but I think this guy is almost unstoppable for the nomination.

HARLOW: Do you believe, David, as a former adviser to the president, President Trump, that this was gold for Democrats, for President Biden and in general? Let's just get to the general.

DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. So, I would say think it depends on where you're coming from. I think that Trump -- something Abby said last night, that's Trump being Trump, that's what you saw. Phil, you alluded to the same thing. I think it was a missed opportunity for the president in terms of what Van is saying is correct. Biden says this correctly all the time. Don't judge me against the almighty. Judge me against the alternative. And to Van's point, voters are going to look at Trump and they're going to look at the alternative, Biden. If you look at the numbers right now, and the current president's numbers suck. They're terrible.

And so what explains Trump's strength? It's Biden's weakness, right? And so I think voters are going to make -- they're going to make that comparison. And I think last night was a missed opportunity for the president -- for them former president to say, look, Kaitlan, we're never going to agree on January 20th -- I mean, on the 2020 election, we're not going to agree on January 6th, but let's talk about some things we might agree on. We need a stronger border. We need to stop fentanyl. I mean, everyone today in America is watching the border crisis happen in real-time, and they're thinking we need to fix this. This isn't working correctly, right? And so Trump really missed an opportunity to really address those types of things.

Inflation, Silicon Valley Bank, First Republic, all these things cratered because of inflationary policies of this administration.

HARLOW: And more management.

URBAN: No, I get it. But he could have framed those issues, right, but he missed it.

JONES: He never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity to talk about somebody who is not Trump.

HABERMAN: Right. But that was what it was. He was so interested in defending himself and talking about himself, but he didn't talk about Biden at all.

URBAN: He just could have put pin in it, quick pivot and it would have been --

HABERMAN: Then that would be him being a different person than he is too.

MATTINGLY: In no world is that ever going to happen.

URBAN: This is my hopeful world.

MATTINGLY: Right. But that's the hopeful world that Republicans have been living in for the last seven years. And now, once again, they're after a day where he's on center stage and they're all running away from cameras and reporters who want to ask him about what the former president said.

HABERMAN: Do the second day in a row for the jury verdict.

MATTINGLY: Right, exactly. But my I think my question to Maggie is what is the endgame here for him re-litigating all of this stuff besides the fact that he just is who he is?

HABERMAN: I mean, I think that that is the End Game. I mean, I think it's two things. Advisers know that when he may try to prep him or try to control him or manage him, he tends to go even more in the opposite direction.

MATTINGLY: Like pardoning the people from January 6th?


HABERMAN: Right. I mean, some of his advisers were actually really happy with his January 6th answers. I couldn't quite get a clear sense as to --


HABERMAN: Right, that would be the question. On the pardoning issue in particular, it is because he didn't commit to, yes, they're all pardoned. It was likely -- MATTINGLY: Can we play that real quick? And Kaitlan had a good back and forth. Could we play that sound?

JONES: Equivocal on pardoning traitors.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you pardon the January 6th rioters who were convicted of federal offenses?

TRUMP: I am inclined to pardon many of them, I can't say for every single one because a couple of them probably they got out of control.


MATTINGLY: I thought that was cool because he caveated it.

HABERMAN: Yes, it was better than the alternative, which is how this always tends to get looked at. I think to the point that you were making before, though, again, this was a forum where Kaitlan got a lot of news made, a lot, a lot of things that we have not heard him talk about, a lot of issues that he has not push because when people are traveling aboard the plane or he's going to a rally, it's something very different. And so how it plays for the team and they're feeling good that they're getting cheers is very different than what it might play out.

JONES: I think the point that -- Kaitlan was like a matador against the biggest bull in American history. And I think she put a lot of knives in that are going to pay off later on in terms of getting him to say stuff that actually he didn't actually said on the record before. I think that was very important.

URBAN: Yes. But to Maggie's point, Republicans got what they needed out of this. Trump got what he needed out of this. He's tough. People like the base likes to see that. He's in there mixing it up with the media again, not a friendly environment, right, for Donald Trump to come back to CNN. I kind of joke that you would never see Joe Biden wading into a Fox News debate.

HARLOW: I don't think that's fair comparison.

URBAN: No. CNN is not -- my point is --

HARLOW: So, let's not make it.

URBAN: -- an unfriendly.

JONES: Well, that was a friendly argument but --

HARLOW: I think you can't get a more objective journalist and interviewer than Kaitlan Collins.

URBAN: No, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that -- I completely agree. Kaitlan did a great job. I'm just saying that Biden is not going to take -- he's not going to stand up to do that. I would love to see him take questions.

HABERMAN: But with whom? Sean Hannity? I mean, like --

URBAN: I'd love to see him take questions from an audience like that, unscripted, no notes. It's tougher to deal with. We'll see if he does it. And I think the audience, by the way, whoever just said, they asked some pretty softball questions. There were no really pressing hard questions that they asked.

HARLOW: Final thought, Van?

JONES: I think that you can look at this from a political point of view, and we should. But from the point of view from the United States of a country, the idea that you got somebody who just basically put you on notice, you vote for me, I am going to help Putin. To me, that's -- the bigger take away is all the other stuff. What really matters in the world stage is what is going on in Ukraine. The fact he wouldn't say, I want Ukraine to win, I don't want dictators to win. I want to make sure Zelenskyy is triumphant here. The fact that he was equivocal and he both-sided a brutal dictator killing civilians and stealing children, we should not let that go unmarked (ph).

HARLOW: Think about what Kevin McCarthy said a few weeks ago in Israel talking -- making that so clear, Maggie.

HABERMAN: No. I think that's exactly right. I mean, listen, I think that there was a lot of insight that we got into where Trump is because we don't hear from him the way he used to. He's not on Twitter. People don't read Truth Social the way no matter what he says, they just don't, and so they what he did when he was on Twitter, he does not do a ton of mainstream interviews, and that's for a reason. There has also been fewer opportunities for him. He is the frontrunner for the Republican nomination by a very wide mile, so I don't see how you don't try to talk to him.

I do think Dave is right, that the comparison of you're going to hear Republicans say Trump winning to, you know, an environment that Trump at least has argued isn't, you know, favorable to him and that he went back and forth. And I think that you're going to see them make that kind of comparison against Biden over and over, and that is going to basically be the frame they want this election to be, which is weak versus strong. I'm not saying that's the case but that's what they're going to push.

HARLOW: Thank you.

URBAN: I must be right. Maggie agreed with me.

HARLOW: I know.

HABERMAN: We can all go home now.

URBAN: All the news is free from --

MATTINGLY: We've solved all the problems. This is the solution, this table right here. Great job, everyone. Thanks, guys. I appreciate it. Well, the crowd at last night's town hall, they didn't hold back. CNN spoke to several of the audience members and got they reaction to what they heard from the former president.

HARLOW: Also ahead for us, FDA advisers voted unanimously in support of approving over-the-counter birth control. We'll tell you how soon before it get full approval, ahead.



MATTINGLY: Former President Trump made his case to voters across the nation during CNN's town hall hosted by our very own Kaitlan Collins in New Hampshire last night, but was he able to sway some undecided voters or did he convince fellow Republicans that they should give him another four years in the White House?

Here is CNN's Gary Tuchman.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Poppy and Phil, we talked to eight people who were inside the town hall. Six of them have voted for Donald Trump before. One hasn't voted in the last two presidential elections but she is leaning Republican in 2024. Another one of the people is 18-year-old and will be voting in his first election in 2024 and is leaning Republican. A consensus, Trump should focus on 2024 and not 2020.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Personally, I'm getting tired of hearing about it. I'm very much more so interested in the problems that we face now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think anybody wants to hear about 2020 at this point. Everybody wants to hear about 2024, the future and what comes after that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'd like him to move on. I would like him to stop talking about it, but it's his opinion.

TUCHMAN: And he's continuing to mock Jean Carroll, this woman who was sexually abused, according to this jury. He also says that that was rigged.


How does it make you feel that he is still making fun of this woman? I'm going to ask a woman that question.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's uncomfortable. It's definitely uncomfortable. And I just don't know -- what to think anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn't really care.

TUCHMAN: Why didn't you care? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know enough about the case. Women can be victims of abuse. Women can also make up stories. I mean, we see it all the time. So, I don't know. All of these situations where people coming out 20, 30 years later, I don't listen to it.

TUCHMAN: The final question, any of you ready to say you are ready to vote for Donald Trump on 2024? You are, one person? The rest not ready to say that yet? Thank you all for joining us.


TUCHMAN: All eight people told us they did not feel better about Trump after this town hall, but they also didn't feel worse. What they heard, they expected to hear. Poppy, Phil?

MATTINGLY: Gary Tuchman, thanks so much for that.

And joining us now is Republican Congressman Brian Mast of Florida. He's the chair of the Veterans Coalition for Trump Campaigns, he's also a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

I'm sure you watched last night. I think the voters that Gary was just talking to had an interesting perspective of, you hear from a lot of Republicans, a lot of your colleagues, you just want him to look forward, not back, look forward, not back. He must look back. It seems to be something he has to do. Do you wish he would look forward instead of looking back?

REP. BRIAN MAST (R-FL): I think the president wants to look forward. He's continually asked to look back. That's what I heard other people talk about this as well in the recap of the debate. He was asked for 30-something minutes about the past, about the past, about the past. There was definitely a two-way street.

MATTINGLY: So, the reason why he was asked about the past is because she attempted to drive the overturning of the U.S. election, attempted to subvert the Constitution, and to some degree, because of a rally or in part due to a rally, his supporters, many of which have been prosecuted, stormed the U.S. Capitol that you were in. So, do you understand why maybe there would be some need to look back given he's the likely Republican nominee at this point?

MAST: Well, you're asking the question, does he need to look back or should he move forward? You can't have that both ways. But if you really want to rehash the issue, you're talking about a situation where the full weight and force of the federal government was exercised to subvert an election. Whether it was with social media companies, like Twitter and others, to go out there and get people that were former military generals to go out there and sign letters to say, oh, this is Russian disinformation, the list goes on and on.

Those are important things that I don't think the president wants to sit there and talk about. But, again, Kaitlan asked him about for 30 minutes, so he's not going to run away from it, and that's why he's my choice for president. He's the guy takes the bull by the horns. He doesn't back down. He doesn't back down from a debate that he knows he is not going to be the most friendly environment. He goes in there saying, yes, I'll come in there and answer your questions. I'm not going to read the script. I'm going to give you the authentic me. This is what I actually think. This is how I actually feel. That is different. That's why Americans love him, for that strength.

MATTINGLY: No, I understand, that's why his base is very fond of him, and obviously that he has a lot of support, more endorsements I think at this stage than he certainly did back in 2015. But --

MAST: Not just his base is fond of him but our enemies fear him, because you have somebody that does not back down from anyone or anything or any situation. That's the guy that I want dealing with Mexico. That's the guy I want dealing with China. That's the guy I want dealing with Ukraine.

MATTINGLY: Congressman, if U.S. adversaries fear him, do you consider Russia a U.S. adversary?

MAST: Absolutely.

MATTINGLY: You are a very, very up front supporter of Ukraine. You have criticized the Biden administration for not having a strategy. You have criticized for not going far enough in terms of the weapons capability they're willing to deliver and as well as considering a no- fly zone, or been willing to consider a no-fly zone. The president last night said this when he was asked if he wanted Ukraine to win. Take a listen.


COLLINS: Can you say if you want Ukraine or Russia to win this war?

TRUMP: I want everybody to stop dying. They're dying, Russians and Ukrainians. I want them to stop dying. I'll have that done in 24 hours. I'll have it done. You need the power of the presidency to do it.

COLLINS: But you won't say that you want Ukraine to win?

TRUMP: You know what I'll say? I'll say this. I want Europe to put up more money.


MATTINGLY: I mean, if you believe that that's -- what is the strength there?

MAST: So, the strength is this. You have a president that is not -- a former president that's not going to make up policy in a town hall, and then have to have his people come out for the next week, like Joe Biden does, and clean up what he says, like making foreign policy statements on "60 Minutes" interviews that we're going to put U.S. troops on the ground in Taiwan, situations like that. He's smart enough, tactical enough to go out there and say, listen, I want people to stop dying. We are in a dangerous situation right now where nobody can say that there is 0 percent chance of nuclear war, and you have a president in place that is also not committed to making sure that Ukraine wins.


He's right now committed to making sure that Ukraine doesn't lose, and that's totally different --

MATTINGLY: If President Biden had been asked a yes or no question about whether he wanted Ukraine to win, and he had hedged like you just heard from the former president, would you have been OK with that?