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CNN This Morning

Thousands Of Migrants Seeking U.S. Asylum Wait In Northern Mexico; Lori Vallow Daybell Found Guilty Of Killing Her Two Children; COVID-19 Public Health Emergency Over After Three Years; Debt Limit Meeting Between Biden, Congress Leaders Put Off Until Next Week; Biden Faces Criticism Over Immigration Policies; Manhunt Continues For One Philadelphia Escaped Inmates. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired May 13, 2023 - 08:00   ET



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The highly acclaimed music streaming platform from Europe is launching in the U.S.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Spotify was the first service I ever saw that competed not with everything that preceded it, the iTunes of the world and the rhapsodies of the world. But it actually competed with piracy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Spotify's value proposition to the pirates was, we're going to make this easier for you. It's going to stream out of the cloud, so you won't have to mess around with these files anymore. And you're getting access to the overwhelming majority of music since the beginning of the recorded music era for $5. It was an irresistible proposition.


VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: The New CNN original series, "The 2010s" premieres tomorrow night at 9:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone and welcome to CNN THIS MORNING. It is Saturday, May 13th. I'm Amara Walker.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell. Well, thank you for spending part of your morning with us so pasta.

WALKER: I just think it's funny, I'm still thinking about pasta.

BLACKWELL: Right. We -- this is the 6 o'clock hour. We've been debating pasta. You love it.

WALKER: Because you got -- well, can you believe Victor is like, well, I think you would like pasta.

BLACKWELL: Yeah. I was like you could take it or leave it, really. And the reason is because it's just --

WALKER: You're alone.

BLACKWELL: I'm alone. It's just a vehicle for the stuff that I think tastes best.

WALKER: You know what it is?

BLACKWELL: I could just eat the sauce with this spoon.

WALKER: No. It's not just a vehicle. How could you strip it down to that? You know what it is for me? It's the texture.


WALKER: And I love certain textures of pastas. And it's got to be perfectly authentic. And if it's homemade, I can literally just eat it with no sauce. So your theory about being a vehicle for sauce is so wrong.

BLACKWELL: We could split a dish. I'll take the sauce, you take the pasta.

WALKER: I'm all about that.

BLACKWELL: All right. Here's what we're watching for you this morning.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have to admit it's nice to be able to breathe one more time. But we can't let our guard down because we still know it's coming.


BLACKWELL: The cities along the U.S.-Mexican border say they are bracing for an influx of migrants after the COVID-era border policy known as Title 42 expired this week. The concerns from officials and the legal challenges the White House is now facing after letting the policy expire.

WALKER: Guilty on all counts. An Idaho jury convicted Lori Vallow Daybell in the murder of her children. The evidence they considered and what Daybell's family had to say after the verdict.

BLACKWELL: After more than three years, the U.S. has ended the COVID public health emergency. We'll explain what this means in the fight against the coronavirus and how it could cost you more money if you get sick.

We start this morning at the southern border where several U.S. cities have declared States of Emergency as the ending of Title 42 has set the stage for a migration rush.

WALKER: Tens of thousands of migrants are reportedly waiting in Northern Mexico to enter into the United States. But Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas has warned, there will be more severe consequences for illegal crossings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: We've been very, very clear that there are lawful, safe, and orderly pathways to seek relief in the United States. And if one arrives at our southern border, when it's going to face tougher consequences and that is what we are going to deliver.


BLACKWELL: Still President Biden's border strategy stalled this week after a Federal Judge blocked the administration from using a policy that would release screened and vetted migrants out of U.S. custody on parole, a method designed to alleviate overcrowding in border facilities. Let's go now to CNN's Gustavo Valdes in Juarez, Mexico. What's the latest? What are you seeing there?

GUSTAVO VALDES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Victor and Amara. Let me show you something. This is perhaps not what we expected. The border is as empty as we've seen it in a long time. I was here back in December when Title 42 was about to expire and then the Supreme Court intervened. But you can see, there are no migrants waiting to be processed by the Border Patrol.

We saw this end of the rush around midnight on the 11th to the 12th. We saw a few migrants getting here just shortly after the deadline and we're disappointed that they could not get in. They were told that at the moment that their time to come across was over and they had to wait on Mexico. Even yesterday, we only saw about 100 or so migrants trying to cross over and be processed but they were frustrated that nobody took them in and eventually walked away.

So this is not what officials on both sides of the border expected. We know during the week some officials in the U.S. estimated that over 150,000 migrants were waiting on the Mexican side. Yesterday, the Mexican Foreign Secretary said that there were about 15,000 waiting to cross. So we don't know where those numbers are coming. But that sudden rush is not happening now.


That doesn't mean that those migrants are not in the area. Perhaps their strategy is changing. Instead of coming over and turning themselves to the border patrol, now they're going to be forced to find another way to cross and try to evade the authorities.

WALKER: Yes. So, yes, let's talk a little bit more about that. So you think possibly the strategy might be changing, you know, because again, there was this huge expectation that we would see just a big surge at the border. We're not seeing that at least just yet. Do you see in part that it's the Biden administration's policy that they're implementing where they're turning away asylum seekers if they don't first seek protection in a country that they travel through? Because they could face, what is it, a five year ban?

VALDES: And that -- that's it. And what we're seeing actually is just enforcing existing laws that perhaps haven't been enforced as toughly as now. We remember that in previous administrations when they tried to implement the same policies, they were criticized by several groups and we're seeing it again under the Biden administration where they're making clear that economic migrants are not going to be allowed. And now with this immigration ban that many people are calling this current policy.

WALKER: Gustavo Valdes, appreciate your reporting there. Thank you very much.

So a slow moving storm is taking aim at Texas and all those migrants waiting along the border could be caught in the harsh conditions. The system could bring several rounds of rain, thunderstorms, and even flash flooding.

BLACKWELL: Some places could see up to 10 inches of rain. We're joined now by CNN's Allison Chinchar. The storm could last for a few days.

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, that's right. It basically started yesterday. We had the first big round of very heavy rain coming in. More is expected today and then even into tomorrow. So it's that cumulative effect of not only the rain but also the storms. So look at all of the lightning you have with a lot of these storms and that is equally as dangerous if you are outside.

Now that's not just in Texas. But that's also farther north into Oklahoma and several other states as the storms continue to make their way east. But you're also going to see secondary development and more of these storms developing in the next 24 to 36 hours. This is a look at how much rain has already fallen in the last 24 hours. That area from Del Rio down to Laredo, in areas of South Texas, already 2 to 4 inches has fallen.

Now we're going to add more rain on top of it. Today, that's why you have the flash flood watches. And in fact, in a lot of these last through the entire day today, some of them even crossing into tomorrow. And then several flash flood warnings where you've already had a very significant amount of rain that has fallen in just the last few hours.

In addition to flooding, you also have the potential for damaging winds and some hail and a lot of lightning with a lot of these storms not only in Texas but also areas of Oklahoma and the western portions of Arkansas as well as Louisiana. We talked about it.

It's going to be multiple rounds of these showers and thunderstorms. So that's going to be a key thing. If you get rain in the morning, don't think you're done for the afternoon or even the evening. You could get additional showers and thunderstorms.

Overall, most of these areas likely to pick up an additional 3 to 6 inches on top of what they've already had.

BLACKWELL: All right, Allison Chinchar watching all of it for us. Thank you so much.

Another Federal Judge this time in Texas is being asked to stop the Biden administration from using a new policy that would release migrants from custody without a court hearing or formal charges if border patrol facilities get too crowded.

WALKER: Yes. This comes after a Federal Judge in Florida blocked that policy on Thursday. CNN's Jasmine Wright is live this morning at the White House. Jasmine, obviously, the Biden administration not excited about this ruling.

JASMINE WRIGHT, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: No, Amara. That's right. Look, the White House is accusing Republicans of sabotage as they're facing this really challenging moment. Remember, President Biden continues to take incoming criticism from both sides of the aisle criticizing his handling of the border.

Now we just heard from Gustavo, talking about how border officials are seeing a bit of a reprieve there as even though those border crossings are elevated. They just aren't at those surging numbers that were once expected. But Biden administration officials really anticipating a potential surge. For months, they've been putting in these measures that were trying in part to speed up processing at some of these border facilities that are overcrowded, really trying to get people out on the streets to make room for those who would then come in.

And one of those was that tools that was blocked by the Florida court on Thursday, really not allowing the Biden administration officials to basically not give migrants court dates to try to push them out of the system quicker so that they would have more room for others. And you're right, the White House did not respond kindly. Take a listen.


KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It's sabotaged. It's pure and simple. That's how that reads to us. It is a harmful ruling and the Department of Justice is going to fight it. Republican elected officials continue to play games here. They continue to have political stunts and they don't want to solve this problem.



WRIGHT: So there we just heard tough language from White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre. But sources have told CNN that basically Biden officials really thought that litigation would likely be a part of this process. And therefore, they kind of baked it into their calculus and now they're relying on other measures.

But in the coming days and weeks, they are thinking about other ways that they can speed up processing in part to deal with a potential surge at the border because they know that these numbers may not always be as low as we're seeing them now, which would basically create more logistical problems, but also more political problems for this administration. Victor, Amara?

WALKER: Yes. That's right. Jasmine Wright, thank you.

A New York man who held the homeless street performer in a fatal chokehold is now out on bail. BLACKWELL: Daniel Penny surrendered to police on Friday morning. And he's 24 years old, former Marine, and he's charged with second degree manslaughter in the death of Jordan Neely earlier this month. Neely was a street performer who impersonated Michael Jackson. He was restrained on a subway in Manhattan after he shouted that he was hungry and thirsty and had nothing to live for.

An Idaho woman has been found guilty of killing her two children and conspiring to kill her husband's ex-wife, Lori Vallow Daybell was charged with murder after her 17-year-old daughter and seven-year-old son went missing in 2019 and were found dead months later in June 2020.

WALKER: Her husband, Chad Daybell, is also facing charges. He is still awaiting trial. The three year long investigation included bizarre claims of zombie children and apocalyptic religious beliefs. CNN's Camila Bernal has a story.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Answer guilty, Answer guilty.

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lori Vallow Daybell stood almost motionless as one guilty verdict after another was announced. She was found guilty on all murder, conspiracy and grand theft charges.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the court does find it to be a unanimous verdict.

BERNAL (voice-over): The jury's decision closes the book on the month long trial for the Idaho mother who prosecutors say was motivated by money, power, and sex to kill her two children and conspired to kill her husband's wife at the time. And while she decided not to testify, her lawyers argued she was innocent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen, just tell people what's happening. There's people around the country praying for your children.

BERNAL (voice-over): The harrowing case, which involves a tangled web of family debts and doomsday religious beliefs began in September of 2019 when two of Vallow Daybell's children from a previous marriage, 16-year-old Tylee Ryan and seven-year-old Joshua or J.J. were last seen. Shortly afterwards, she married Chad Daybell whose wife died in her sleep just weeks before Chad and Lori's wedding in Hawaii.

When authorities conducted a welfare check on J.J. in November of 2019, police say Vallow Daybell told them her son was with a friend in Arizona. They returned the next day with a search warrant only to find the couple had vanished.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just tell us where your kids are.

BERNAL (voice-over): The couple was located in Hawaii in January of 2020. But J.J. and Tylee's whereabouts remained a mystery. After a month long search, law enforcement located the remains of the children at Chad Daybell's property in Southeast Idaho.

ASSISTANT CHIEF GARY HAGEN, REXBURG POLICE DEPT: Chad Daybell, who resides at that residence has also been taken into custody.

BERNAL (voice-over): Daybell and Vallow Daybell were ultimately indicted for murder in May of 2021. Chad Daybell's trial is being held separately. He's pleaded not guilty. The couple's apocalyptic religious worldview was a focus throughout the trial. Prosecutors say they believe they were religious figures who use the system of rating people as light or dark.

CHAD DAYBELL, LORI VALLOW DAYBELL'S HUSBAND: I can't get in touch with my kids.

BERNAL (voice-over): But before the children went missing Vallow Daybell's estranged husband Charles told police about her beliefs.

DAYBELL: She thinks she's a resurrected deity and a god.

BERNAL (voice-over): He filed for divorce but prosecutors say Vallow Daybell's brother Alex Cox shot and killed Charles in July of 2019. She's facing a conspiracy to commit murder charge in Arizona in connection with that killing. Cox died in December of 2019. Hearing the verdict was emotional for many who followed this tragic case but perhaps none more so than family.

LARRY WOODCOCK, GRANDFATHER OF VALLOW CHILDREN: J.J., I love you. Tylee, papa loves you.


BERNAL: And the Judge said sentencing would happen in about three months. She could face life in prison, J.J.'s and Tylee's grandfather, he spoke out after the verdict saying that he's going to be there for that sentencing to ask Lori why and for what.


Now the defense, they did not comment after the verdict. But the prosecution put out a statement saying they're pleased with this verdict. They also said they couldn't comment on this case, because Chad Daybell still hasn't been tried. They did, though express their commitment to justice for all of these victims. Victor, Amara?

BLACKWELL: Camila Bernal, thank you for the reporting.

Still ahead, after three long years, the U.S. ends the COVID public health emergency. We'll tell you what it could mean for the spread of the virus and how it could impact your wallet.

WALKER: Plus, negotiations continue this weekend on a plan to keep America from defaulting on its debt. President Biden tweeting just moments ago that default is quote, not an option, where talks stand right now ahead of a critical meeting between lawmakers next week.

Also, two inmates escaped from a Philadelphia jail. Now, one has been captured but the other is still on the run. What with these escapes lately? We'll have the latest on the investigation on the ongoing manhunt.



WALKER: The COVID-19 public health emergency is over. It ended Thursday without fanfare. But because of the changes in public policy that go along with it, we will feel it and you'll feel it in your wallet. COVID tests won't be free for most people anymore. People covered by Medicare or private insurance are no longer guaranteed free at home tests and you could be charged for lab testing.

Depending on the treatments, you may have to start paying for pharmaceutical treatments like Remdesivir. Treatments bought by the Federal Government like Paxlovid will be available at no charge as long as supplies last. That also goes for COVID-19 vaccines. Once the supply runs out the Affordable Care Act and other laws will keep them free for most people.

Now, other changes can prevent public health officials from keeping the country safe from the next pandemic. Labs across the country are no longer required to report coronavirus test results to the CDC. Hospitals and state agencies don't have to provide the Federal Government with comprehensive data needed to detect and respond to public health threats.

Joining me now to talk about what all this means for public health is Dr. Jayne Morgan. She is executive director of Piedmont Healthcare's COVID Task Force. Piedmont Healthcare located right here in Atlanta. Good morning. Thank you so much for coming on in.


WALKER: I don't know. That kind of -- that surprises me but it concerns me. If we're not -- we don't have a centralized system now that requires health agencies and hospitals to report tests, COVID tests. Are you concerned about that?

MORGAN: You know, you're absolutely correct. And what has happened is when the public health emergency ends, that means that CDC's authority to require that reporting mechanism from laboratories, hospitals, and other entities also ends. And it's really a state by state response after that. And so it becomes very fractured. And we have to remember that the CDC really was built for identification, monitoring, surveillance, and not really for mass response to operationalizing in an emergency situation.

WALKER: Well, if they were built for surveillance, why aren't -- why isn't there a central system for surveilling outbreaks or potential outbreaks?

MORGAN: Exactly. And there is but it's very fractured. So they use multiple sources from multiple vehicles. And that really works when time is a luxury for you.


MORGAN: When you have the time to do it. But as we see in a pandemic and in emergency response, it really doesn't work. You have to have something that's more streamlined.

WALKER: Just because the public health emergency is over, it doesn't mean that the risk of another COVID variant popping up or another outbreak is over, right?

MORGAN: You know what that is absolutely true and that's a really good point to make. And one thing that will continue is the genomic surveillance will continue under the CDC. We have to remember that this is in an endemic state, which means it is still around us. People are still contracting COVID. We still have hospitalized patients with COVID even with these Omicron variants. And we have to always be on the lookout for what that next variant may or may not be.

We've been very lucky in many ways with this entire Omicron family of variants. But we really don't know, the virus isn't consulting us, and so hopefully it will stay in a very low level state.

WALKER: So Doctor, what were some lessons learned from this pandemic, and what should be applied? Which lessons should be applied?

MORGAN: Yes, you know, one of the really unexpected unintended lessons learned is that clinical trials really ramped up in the COVID space as people -- as the companies that really were investigating vaccines and other COVID therapeutics really ramped up. And they began to aggressively enroll minority patients into these trials where by and large populations of color had been left out of clinical trials. And so when we get FDA approvals, it's unclear whether these devices or drugs are relevant to all populations.

Suddenly, during the pandemic, we saw these companies actually pursuing populations and developing relationships. The other thing that we see in the middle of the public health emergency is that there were more touch points for populations of color with the health care system, especially with regard to access. And it went a long way to decrease the health equity gap.

And so that was an unintended consequence which unfortunately will also perhaps in some ways in. But we would like to see the pharmaceutical and device companies continue to enroll patients of all nationalities and colors into clinical trials.

WALKER: I remember going into communities in Alabama, you know, to report on vaccine inequity and also we learned during the pandemic how COVID hits certain communities harder than others, right? Do you think those lessons now are being applied or at least more focus on certain demographics when it comes to certain diseases?


MORGAN: And I think we really have seen not only how fractured is our -- is our public health system. But how fractured is our overall medical system and what the disparate levels of care that you receive in this country and how access really matters. And so absolutely, those lessons were glaringly apparent within the pandemic. And we will be transferring those lessons to see how can we continue to improve to have greater health care for everyone.

WALKER: We know, we got we have five seconds. Are we aptly prepared -- is our public health system aptly prepared for the next potential pandemic?

MORGAN: And so I think we are not prepared. And hopefully we will get the funding that we need to shore up our defenses and streamline our digital preparedness to make certain that communication is effective and we can get the information that we need to warn the public.

WALKER: What is important conversation. Dr. Jayne Morgan, thank you so much for coming in. Appreciate it.

MORGAN: Thank you. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Still ahead this morning, working to get a deal done. Debt limit negotiators are expected to continue talks this weekend as they try to hammer out a fiscal deal and we'll have the latest on those talks.



WALKER: White House and congressional staffers are working throughout the weekend to find some common ground on debt negotiations.

BLACKWELL: Both the Treasury Department and the Congressional Budget Office one the U.S. is at a significant risk for defaulting and that could have catastrophic consequences.


JANET YELLEN, TREASURY SECRETARY: It default on us obligations would produce an economic and financial catastrophe, it would spark a global downturn that would set us back much further. It would also risk undermining us global economic leadership. It raises questions about our ability to defend our national security interests.


BLACKWELL: CNN Alayna Treene is with us now from Washington. So the two sides are talking. And that's good. Any sign of progress now?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Well, for the fourth straight day, negotiators for the top four congressional leaders and the White House are continuing these negotiations and trying to find some sort of agreement or compromise that they can put together for a potential deal.

Now these talks are occurring after a meeting between President Biden and these top four congressional leaders was postponed on Friday because really, they are still struggling. I mean, they just began these talks in earnest this past week.

And a deal like this normally takes months to come together. And really, the reality is Congress doesn't have months, they have less than 20 days until June 1. That is the date that the Treasury Department said the government could default on its debt. And the Congressional Budget Office also released a report yesterday backing up the Treasury Department on this saying a default is likely within the first two weeks.

And so really, there's a lot of anxiety and anxiousness of among a lot of these leaders and people on Capitol Hill about how they're going to do this. But I will say from my talks with some of the staffers involved in the negotiations, they have made some modest progress.

Yes, they are talking finally for the first time they're sitting down in the same room. And some of these topics are centering around permitting reform, rescinding unspent COVID relief funds, as well as looking at I said permanent unspent cover relief funds and as well as some spending cuts. And that's something that the White House and Democrats are increasingly recognizing they might have to cave on and start to really to find some sort of deal here.

Now, the President just moments ago, this morning, released a tweet warning of the economic calamity of not reaching a deal. He said that default would erase millions of jobs, trigger over session, his retirement accounts and increase borrowing costs and really saying it is not an option.

And now, again, I think we're going to see these talks continue over the weekend and through next week. But really a deal needs to be in hand in the coming days in order to see this pass through Congress. Congress moves very slowly, they still need to draft a bill, sell it to both chambers and find a way to pass it before early June. And so we're going to see how these talks continue over the next few days.

BLACKWELL: Alayna Treene from Washington. Thank you so much for setting the table. Let's bring it now CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Alice Stewart, and CNN political commentator and former South Carolina democratic state representative Bakari Sellers. Welcome to you both. Good to see you on a Saturday.

Let me start with you Bakari, it sounds like from the latest reporting is that we're not really in or they're not in a position now of saying there will be cuts, there will not be cuts. The question is, what will be cut? Is there a political cost you think to the President now? She used the description of cave but negotiating now, and backing away from saying there will be no negotiating to raise the debt ceiling?

BARAKI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I don't think there's any downside to it. In fact, I think most Americans are proud that they are behaving in Washington DC that individuals from both sides and leadership from both sides are having conversations.

I think that there's some very commonsense cuts that can be made. I think actually clawing back some of the unsplit COVID relief dollars makes sense to most Americans. And as long as these are common sense, negotiating tactics, not stall tactics by Republicans, I think people will gravitate towards whatever deal is reached.

The fact is what the President tweeted this morning. I mean, I think he understands this, and we should understand the gravity of what default means. And so he's in a position where he's trying to keep our country on sound financial footing. And if we default because of Republican high jinx, and that falls on the feet of the President, then that's not good for anybody. So explaining what the downside is to this far outweighs any cuts that may be made.


BLACKWELL: But Baraki, if there were common sense cuts to be made, why did we for months hear the President say there will be no cuts? Why do we have to get here so close to the deadline V. I mean, we're not an 11th hour yet. But to get so close to it before the White House would acknowledge, sure, there are some things that can be cut.

SELLERS: I think that you have to understand what the leverage is that each party has, I think you have to get people to the table to actually have these discussions. But one thing the President has done throughout this entire process is lead. And what you're seeing him do now is clearly articulate the downside to not coming together and working together.

Look, I've been a decent critic of the 46th, President of the United States from the left, but one thing I can tell you is that his experience in the United States Congress, his experience, as vice president and passing legislation is built for moments like this, where he understands the process better than anybody. And he can bring people to the table and work together.

What you saw the past few months was leverage, articulating the talking points, getting people to the table, and now the sausage will be made.

BLACKWELL: Alice, your degree of confidence. And listen, they have not reached a deal. They are still talking but if there is a deal made between the White House and Speaker McCarthy that he can get enough support that clearly will be vote if you bring the Democrats and a few Republicans along to pass it, but that he won't then face some backlash that could threaten his speakership, because as we saw in the fight to get the gavel, that it takes a really low threshold for someone to call to potentially vacate the chair, and we'd be back in a speakership fight.

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Kevin McCarthy has no doubt in a difficult situation. But he has been good to stand firm and I look at what we're seeing now is talk is good stalemates are cheap.

And the fact that conversations are being had by McCarthy and the President and his advisors, that does show some type of progress. I think they're -- in order to satisfy a lot of those strong right wing, so to speak up members in the House, we do need to hold firm on some of the spending cuts.

I think, getting back some of the COVID money is one but also one that is a very popular within the GOP is in instilling work requirements for safety net and that is a way that we can save money and also make a change with how government operates.

Look, the question is going to be who blinks first and I have confidence in the two leaders as they're sitting at the table. I trust that Joe Biden is going to be the president that he has said he would be one that talks across the table and gets things done.

I am concerned about there has been talk about Article 14, which is the President was able to unilaterally step in and solve the debt ceiling crisis. And I think that would be very problematic, because it avoids what needs to be done is having these legislative conversations and bipartisan compromise on both sides. That way everyone gets what we need. We don't go into the fear of defaulting on our debt. And we have some meaningful, important cost savings in the federal government.

BLACKWELL: I will point out that there weren't any of these legislative conversations Republicans required to raise the debt ceiling during the Trump administration. But let me move on to Title 42 ending, Bakari.

And now Title 8 is ruling the day the current president of Refugees International former senior Biden appointee at USAID. Jeremy Konyndyk wrote this of the asylum application process now post Title 42. He said this amounts to a shameful departure from American values of welcoming people fleeing harm. It also runs directly contrary to President Biden's repeated and vocal promises to undo his predecessors weakening of us asylum protections.

You think it's problematic that as the president describes there will be these chaotic weeks or months within the party? We expect that there will be criticism from Republicans, but he's getting it from the moderates and the Liberals within the Democratic Party.

SELLERS: Unquestionably, I think the first thing is even as Title 42 ended, Homeland Security released a statement saying that they did not see some massive increase or an increase at all at the border. And I think that individuals like Ted Cruz and others who put theater over policy have been misguided and then nothing but ramp up a lot of the angst in the country. That's first.

But second, this is a very real problem. And I think Democrats have to do a better job than we dealt with the issue of crime, dealing with the issue of the border. We have to make sure that we have a strong safe and secure border, but we also have to communicate better these individuals are coming to this country the right way. They're trying to seek asylum.

We've been talking about asylum reform in this country since the Gang of Eight. I don't know if people actually remember when we thought Marco Rubio and Lindsey Graham and the late Senator from a Arizona John McCain actually had the courage to tackle this issue of immigration reform.


And so we tackle this immigration issue of comprehensive immigration reform, nothing will change.

BLACKWELL: Yes. And they all backed away from it after that. Let me, Alice, to you. The Republicans passed the Secure the Border Act this week, resumes building the walls stiffens requirements for these interviews to determine actual danger, $50 fee that's thrown in there. The migrants leaving Venezuela in the Northern Triangle in Haiti and the rest are escaping a burning house.

Should the legislation have not dealt with the burning house dealing with the landscape, the environment in these countries, and not exclusively once they arrive at the border if you really want to stop the influx of migrants?

STEWART: Well, to be quite frank, that was the focus of Vice President Harris two years ago when she was put in charge of dealing with the crisis in the Northern Triangle in these countries that are dangerous and people should flee.

But right now we have the problem of what Republicans in the House are looking at is first and foremost, secure the border and enforcing existing laws and that's a good step forward in the right direction with the legislation that they have passed. And they cannot say that they're not taking action because this is a perfect example of them taking action to secure the border and make our nation safe.

BLACKWELL: All right, Alice Stewart, Bakari Sellers. Thank you. We'll be back.



WALKER: Police have arrested two suspects a man and a woman accused of helping two inmates escaped from the Philadelphia prison officials they both will face multiple charges of conspiracy and criminal escape.

BLACKWELL: U.S. Marshals have arrested one of the two escapees while a manhunt is still happening now for the second. CNN's Danny Freeman takes a closer look at the case.


DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): There have been a lot of developments on this story that we first brought to you at the beginning of the week. Two prisoners escaped at the beginning of the week. Now there have been two arrests, but still one inmate is on the loose according to police.

But first let me tell you about the inmate who was rearrested last night. 24-year-old Nasir Grant, he was arrested on Thursday evening at 10:30 p.m. and a U.S. Marshal spokesperson said that they were surveilling an area where they believe grant may have been hiding out in Philadelphia and then they saw a man walk out of a home in what they call full female Muslim garb with a head covering.

Well, the U.S. Marshals they followed that man to an empty parking lot. And that's where they confronted him and ultimately arrested him. Now they said that Grant was visibly surprised when they approached him but he was -- rather he didn't surrender without incident to the U.S. Marshals.

Meanwhile, there was also a second arrest earlier this week, in this case, a 21-year-old woman, Xianni Stalling. She's accused of actually helping these two men break out of prison back on Sunday, but at this point, we still don't have a lot of details as to how she potentially helped these men escape.

At this point, she's facing four felonies including the felony of escape, but her defense attorney was not giving any comment earlier this week to CNN when we asked.

Meanwhile, the last suspect, Ameen Hurst, that's the 18-year-old he's one of the gentlemen who's accused of escaping that prison also on Sunday. He's still out of the lucent. He was in prison initially suspected of four homicides. The U.S. Marshal says he is still considered to be armed and dangerous.

But I should say the marshal said that earlier this week, they were splitting up their time devoting energy to funding to escaped inmates. Now they said that while it's been a long week, they can focus all of their energy on bringing back this one potentially escaped inmate. Back to you.


BLACKWELL: All right, Danny, thank you so much.



BLACKWELL: San Francisco has been in the news for crime the difficulty to afford housing, their street conditions. According to one recent survey by the city's own Comptroller -- Comptroller's office, San Francisco residents feel less safe now than at any point since 1996.

WALKER: Now this week on the whole story with Anderson Cooper, CNN, Sara Sidner, heads to the Bay Area, a place that she wants called home to find out what happened to San Francisco.


SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (on camera): So when I first laid eyes on San Francisco, I was enchanted. From where I am right now driving over the Bay Bridge, and it looked like someone had taken an enormous that a fog and just continuously poured it over the hills, like dry ice being poured over a perfectly sculpted city on a stage. And then you get down into the city and you meet these glorious human characters. And you get to experience the microclimates and the terrifyingly steep hills that make the city and adventure. Then there's the glorious bridges that sit in the bay and welcome you into the shining city on a hill.

The endlessly diverse neighborhoods from Chinatown to the Mission, to the Italian enclave of North Beach, to the pristine Presidio, which gives the city its lungs and down to the Pacific that rests below inviting you in and then biting your skin with its ice cold touch.

This city was endlessly magic. And I love the city. I mean, truly love the city. And I still do. It's just that it hurts to see what's happened to it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The crisis of homelessness in America it's reached a shocking level in San Francisco.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The drugs, attract them the no punishment kind of attitude and then the resources make them want to stay.

SIDNER: The video showing a group of kids getting off a Muni bus as they try to navigate their way through an entire block of open drug use.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Shoplifting in San Francisco, it's forcing stores to close and the thieves some of the most brazen you will see.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mobs of looters storming and ransacking high end stores in the San Francisco area.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unprovoked attacks on elderly Asians in San Francisco.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One elderly man was violently pushed to the ground and he died. Why are people feeling empowered that they can do this with impunity?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Crime staffing shortages and police response times are all getting worse. What will it take for the city to change?


BLACKWELL: Be sure to tune in to the whole story with Anderson Cooper tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific only on CNN. Well, thank you for spending some time with us this morning. We will continue to debate pasta.

WALKER: I'm going to order pasta. I'm going to order for us. You know, they taste even like the different shapes like cavatelli versus penne.

BLACKWELL: The shape taste different?

WALKER: It's the texture taste different but it's the experiences of -- I rolled my eyes.

BLACKWELL: Part of this I just enjoy egging you on.

WALKER: Clearly. Clearly.

BLACKWELL: Yes. Have a good day.

WALKER: (INAUDIBLE) great too.

BLACKWELL: OK. All right.

WALKER: Smerconish is up next. We'll see you back here at 10:00 a.m. Eastern.