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Trump Defiant after Pleading Not Guilty in Docs Case. Aired 6- 6:30a ET
Aired June 14, 2023 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: It is the top of the hour. Good morning, everyone. We are so glad you're with us on the day after the day, because yesterday was such a critical day in the history of this country.
[05:59:48]
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR/CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And why I'm happy now -- I know, God forbid you can be happy at 6 in the morning, we have several smart people to explain what's next.
HARLOW: Yes. That's exactly right.
MATTINGLY: Because it's very, very important. Yesterday, very important, unprecedented history. What comes next, equally as important. And just insightful (ph).
HARLOW: Yes. And the trial ahead. And also fact-checking what the former president said last night about all of it.
It is Wednesday, June the 14th. And President Trump was defiant last night after pleading not guilty to all 37 federal charges related to his handling of classified documents.
In a speech last night at his golf club in New Jersey, the former president made several misleading claims. He even said, quote, that he "did everything right."
MATTINGLY: Now, during his historic arraignment in Miami on Tuesday, he did not address the court and instead sat hunched over, arms crossed, and according to reporters in the room, a scowl on his face.
HARLOW: Also important to note, special counsel Jack Smith, obviously, was in that courtroom. "The New York Times" reports it was the first time the two men had really been in the same room and encountered one another. They did not talk to each another.
MATTINGLY: Now the judge ordered Trump not to communicate with his longtime aide turned co-defendant, Walt Nauta, about the case. Nauta is set to appear in court again in two weeks.
HARLOW: We're also now hearing from Trump's Republican rivals in the race for the White House. Former President [SIC] Mike Pence told "The Wall Street Journal" he cannot defend his old boss's alleged conduct. Nikki Haley, on the other hand, said she'd be inclined to pardon the former president if he is convicted.
CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.
Donald Trump wasted no time turning his historic arrest and arraignment on federal charges into a campaign fund-raiser. Watch.
Just hours after he pled not guilty to 37 felony counts in Miami, Trump gave a speech to a crowd of political donors and supporters at his golf club in New Jersey. His speech was full of misleading and false claims, including this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Whatever documents a president decides to take with him, he has the right to do so. It's an absolute right. This is the law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: Federal prosecutors say Trump illegally kept classified documents at Mar-a-Lago and hid them from the FBI repeatedly, including some of the nation's most sensitive military secrets and details about America's nuclear program.
He allegedly showed them to people without security clearance. He haphazardly stored them in places like a bathroom next to a toilet; with chandelier, though.
We once again have team coverage this morning across the spectrum of things. Alayna Treene is live in Bedminster, New Jersey. Laura Coates, in all of her wonderful ways, will break down what comes next in this unprecedented legal case. Former FBI special agent and CNN security correspondent Josh Campbell is here. CNN political correspondent Sara Murray, and Semafor politics reporter Shelby Talcott are standing by for analysis.
But Sara, I want to start with you. We saw what happened in court. We saw what happened after court. What means -- what does this mean going forward?
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, look, I think what we saw from Donald Trump after leaving the courthouse was this defiant tone, this insistence that these were his documents, that he had every right to keep them.
But, guys, he did not look happy to be showing up at that courthouse for his second indictment since leaving the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MURRAY (voice-over): Former President Donald Trump maintaining his innocence in the face of 37 federal charges related to his alleged mishandling of classified documents.
TRUMP: I hadn't had a chance to go through all the boxes. It's a long, tedious job. It takes a long time. Which I was prepared to do, but I have a very busy life.
MURRAY (voice-over): Trump speaking before a crowd of supporters at his Bedminster golf club, capping a historic day that included the first federal arraignment of a former president.
REP. DON BACON (R-NE): We can't just deny what -- what President Trump did was wrong. I mean, it's clear-as-day wrong.
SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI (R-AK): And I don't care whether you are a Trump supporter or a Trump opposer. You have to take this seriously.
MURRAY (voice-over): Trump surrendered at a federal courthouse in Miami Tuesday afternoon. His attorney telling the court on Trump's behalf, "We most certainly enter a plea of not guilty."
In the courtroom, Trump sat with his arms crossed at a table flanked by his two lawyers. Trump did not address the court. Also seated at that table, his aide and co-defendant, Walt Nauta.
Nauta could not enter a plea, because he did not have a Florida lawyer present.
Of the 37 counts Trump faces, some are for obstruction but most for the willful retention of national defense information.
TRUMP: Threatening me with 400 years in prison for possessing my own presidential papers, which just about every other president has done, is one of the most outrageous and vicious legal theories ever put forward in an American court of law.
MURRAY (voice-over): The judge presiding over the arraignment did not impose any travel restrictions but told Trump he could not speak to any of the potential witnesses in the case.
Trump's attorney objected, insisting many of the witnesses in this case are people employed by the former president. The judge clarified that Trump could not speak about the facts of the case with any of the witnesses, including Nauta, and asked prosecutors to provide a list of the witnesses in the case.
Also present in the courtroom, Special Counsel Jack Smith, though he did not speak during the hearing.
[06:05:08]
Trump was greeted by a crowd as his motorcade left the courthouse. He made an unannounced stop at the famous Cuban restaurant Versailles in Miami's Little Havana, where he was met by dozens of supporters. He entered the restaurant with Nauta by his side and spoke to religious leaders.
After the indictment, Trump's former vice president, Mike Pence, spoke about the charges after previously urging the Justice Department not to indict the former president.
MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (via phone): And I have had the opportunity to read the indictment that was filed.
I can't defend what's alleged. These are serious allegations. And the handling of classified materials, as I learned in my years as vice president and my years on the Foreign Affairs Committee, is a very serious matter that bears upon the national security of the United States.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MURRAY: Now, look, it's not like we're seeing this tidal wave of Republicans suddenly turn on Trump. You know, we've heard a number of prominent voices still defending the former president.
But in the last 24 hours, we have heard from more people who are backing off of their unequivocal support and raising concerns when it comes to this indictment.
HARLOW: Thank you for that. Stay with us. We'll check back in in just a minute.
MATTINGLY: Yes. A lot of leave (ph). But I do want to turn to our expert. Because I think everybody has a lot of questions about what actually comes next.
You saw Walt Nauta and the actual process here. So I'm going to turn to the person who actually knows and tells me these things, whether she likes me emailing or texting her or not. What does happen next, now that we've had the initial arraignment?
LAURA COATES, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: So I'm the voice in your head? You've acknowledged it, finally?
MATTINGLY: The good one.
HARLOW: In all our heads.
COATES: The Morgan Freeman voice of God?
MATTINGLY: The positive one that is helpful.
COATES: OK, wonderful. I appreciate that.
What is next, everyone, it's really important to think about, the No. 1 thing that's next is Walt Nauta's arraignment. It might feel a little bit like deja vu, because of course, we were supposed to have that portion happen yesterday.
But he does not have local counsel. He actually has representation but not actually local counsel. So he'll come back, facing those six charges outlined in the indictment. That is the co-defendant on the conspiracy and obstruction-related defenses. His attorney fees are being paid for by the Save America PAC, but he will be back in court on June 27.
Trump should not appear with him at that point in time. Also what's next, of course, is discovery. The DOJ normally would have
about 14 days to turn over everything, to say here is what you have in preparation for a fair trial, obviously, to have both exculpatory information available and everything else.
But this will be massaged a great deal because, of course, you've got delays possible, due to classified documents. You've got to get security clearances to see the documents at issue here. It doesn't say anything about what's going to happen eventually for a jury to actually look at those documents.
Summation probably happened already. You're talking about the grand jury. But now it's time to figure out what you have and when you can give it. This will be a very big determinant in terms of when the next trial date will be.
HARLOW: When Trump's attorneys and prosecutors start to engage in this, what will they engage in next? What will they argue, wrestle over, in terms of --?
COATES: The biggest things are going to be the pretrial motions, Poppy.
HARLOW: Right.
COATES: The idea, figuring out what is going to happen in the sense of are we going to dismiss or try to exclude evidence?
You can bet your bottom dollar that Evan Corcoran's notes and audio tapes that formed the part of the indictment that suggests, look, here is what was said to me, an audio recording contemporaneously, discussions about wanting to shield documents, discussions about sort of the plucking motion that took place in that point in time. That will be the part of the pretrial motions.
It's not unheard of to have these motions. It's quite standard to talk about what's going to come in, what's going to be excluded. We're talking about a jury, of course. The court of public opinion will probably hear a lot more than, actually, a court of law, jury empaneled people will do.
But the No. 1 question's going to be the schedule. It's a big question mark. We know that they have a lot of time against them, if you're the prosecution. But we don't actually have a set schedule in terms of a trial date, most importantly, of course.
The speedy trial says within 70 days. That puts you about August, around the time that this is likely not going to happen. But the reason there's a question is because these are co-defendants, and unless one is arraigned, unless both are arraigned, you don't have a chance to set a full schedule.
MATTINGLY: Laura, can you come hang out?
COATES: Can I bring my matcha latte, or no?
MATTINGLY: Yes, absolutely.
COATES: All right. I'll walk there.
MATTINGLY: If you brought -- if you brought lattes for the entire table.
I want to start, Shelby -- our panel is back with us right now. Josh Campbell is joining us. Sara Murray, Shelby Talcott. Thanks, guys, for being here.
I want to start with what we were just laying out. Because she also did a great run-through yesterday of how complicated the potential legal schedule, when you put it over the top of the political schedule.
What's your sense of how this actually plays out? Because I know other campaigns are looking at that fact right now.
SHELBY TALCOTT, POLITICS REPORTER, SEMAFOR: Yes. And not only are they looking at it now, but they've been looking at it for months. We've known these investigations are ongoing. And from essentially, the start of this 2024 season, campaigns have been telling me privately, We'll just wait until all of these investigations ramp up.
[06:10:07]
How is he possibly going to be able to defend himself while also running a campaign schedule? It's a full-time job.
And his team is not concerned about it. And I think we saw last night their plan is to essentially merge the two and use these investigations and these indictments as kind of fodder for his run and turn these events into campaign events.
HARLOW: So interesting.
COATES: Can I say, though, that this is -- The prosecution, they have 21 days. They have 21 days of being able to try this case. It's not like the E. Jean Carroll lawsuit where he can say, You know what? I'm not showing up.
HARLOW: He has to go.
COATES: He has to go. He has to be there for about 21 days off the campaign trail. And so, if you're the other RNC hopefuls, you're maybe going, oh, good, there's someone off the campaign trail.
If you're him, you're thinking, do I delay or do I put myself in the primary context? And if you're DOJ, you're thinking, well, am I going to be perceived with interfering with an election cycle if I have 21 days of the presumptive front-runner off the trail?
HARLOW: And that's the argument that President Trump made last night, saying this is election interference.
MURRAY: Yes. And I suspect that we are going to hear from his attorneys in court talking about the scheduling issue; talking about how, one, he has a right to prepare for trial; but, two, he's running for president of the United States, and he needs to have time to do that. I mean, we'll see how a judge takes that.
Judge Aileen Cannon may take it more receptively than another judge would.
But it's also interesting to hear him make this election interference argument when he is under investigation for interfering in an election, in the peaceful transfer of power when it comes to the end of the 2020 election.
HARLOW: Right.
MURRAY: Both by a federal prosecutor, Jack Smith, and also by --
HARLOW: Georgia.
MURRAY: Yes. The district attorney in Georgia.
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: And it's also interesting to think that, you know, whether you're a campaign staff or the Secret Service, you're now plotting out an entire election season based on when you might have to spirit your protectee to his next court date, which is something we -- you know, we haven't seen.
MATTINGLY: It's also fascinating. A lot of Democrats think because of law enforcement involvement in a campaign was why Donald Trump won in 2016 to begin with.
So glad everything is so circular and makes a kind of sense.
But the schedule, and what Sara is talking about with the other investigations, also ties into yesterday, because there were actual law enforcement officials from Fulton County that were physically there, which is where the next potential indictment could come. Why were they there? What does that tell you?
CAMPBELL: This is interesting. You know, when you think about all the major security events in the United States that law enforcement has to prepare for -- you know, we're security at Super Bowls and presidential inaugurations and the like -- there's a playbook on the shelf. You know, you pull off the playbook. OK, here's how we're going to run security at this event.
There is no playbook for how to protect a former president who is now going to all these, you know, court hearings and now, as you mentioned, potentially could be charged in Fulton County.
So we learned that law enforcement in Fulton County actually sent officers to New York when the former president was there facing an indictment. They sent officials yesterday to Miami. Their goal was to try to see how do these crowds work and how does law enforcement prepare? So they're basically building their own playbook.
It's interesting because these -- you know, anyone who has worked at protests know it's -- it's almost like an ecosystem. Right? You try to identify who's the leader of this group. And, you know, it's not uncommon for law enforcement to try to make contact with that person, just to have a line of communication.
Miami police yesterday did a really good job at quickly identifying, you know, potential moments of tension, trying to diffuse them.
There are also lessons learned, to be sure. I mean, there was one incident of the guy in the Halloween costume, you know, the jail suit, who stopped the motorcade by jumping in front of it. All that, law enforcement --
MATTINGLY: Don't do that, by the way.
CAMPBELL: Don't do that, yes.
MATTINGLY: It's a really bad idea.
CAMPBELL: Yes. He didn't have a good night, likely spending his night in jail. That's all the information Fulton County is trying to identify, how do we run this event to ensure that it's secure if, indeed, the former president, again, faces charges where they are?
HARLOW: Can we talk about what Trump said last night in this? Because I can just imagine if he has to be in court every day, 21 days, yes, well, court ends at, what, 5 p.m.? So you go right out of there, and you do what you did last night, right? And what he said that I thought was striking is this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If the communists get away with this, it won't stop with me. They will not hesitate to ramp up their persecution of Christians, pro-life activists, parents attending school board meetings, and even future Republican candidates.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: A whole lot of people: Christians, pro-life activists, any parent attending school board meetings. Similar playbook. It's not about me; this is about you.
TALCOTT: Yes. This is -- again, this is Trump's playbook. We heard it with the past indictment. We've heard it for virtually every investigation that Trump has ever been at the center of.
And the reason is because, A, it allows him to kind of bemoan about these investigations and claim that they are unfair and politically- motivated; but, B, he needs a reason to get people to care. And he already has huge control over the Republican base.
And so by framing it as, yes, this is happening to me, but here's how it's going to affect you, is you know, his version of an effective way to kind of twist the story into a campaign message.
[06:15:13] COATES: It's bizarre, though. The idea of who among us, right? Who
among us hasn't had this? This is not a traffic stop or somebody who maybe didn't know that there was a speed trap.
I'm not looking at you for a reason, Phil.
HARLOW: You know that Phil never speeds, don't you?
MATTINGLY: There are other people at the table, Laura.
COATES: I'll look this way instead, towards the former FBI agent. Fine.
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: But who among us? The idea this is somebody who is in a unique position. Most of us have never had a security clearance. Most of us would never have access to classified documents to be able to declassify or otherwise or be -- have the Presidential Records Act be applicable to us.
So it's always an odd thing to try to have this be the relatability factor.
HARLOW: Yes.
MATTINGLY: I mean, to some degree, he's right. If you are any of those groups he mentioned, and you are taking classified documents out of a skiff and putting them in your bathroom.
HARLOW: Right.
MATTINGLY: And then refusing to give them back to the FBI, and then not addressing the subpoena --
HARLOW: Then this, too, could be you.
MATTINGLY: -- this, too, could be you. It is a fair -- fair assessment. Why are you smiling?
HARLOW: I'm smiling because the control room wants us to get to break.
MATTINGLY: Oh, right. Yes.
HARLOW: Coming up -- it says you're supposed to read, but I'm --Coming up, taking a closer look at Trump's efforts to rake in campaign donations in the wake of his historic arrest on these federal charges.
MATTINGLY: And Mike Pence taking one of the strongest shots yet at his ex-boss over the serious allegations. Could this be the tipping point for other GOP presidential hopefuls who have been, up to this point, hesitant to criticize Trump? Stay with us. We'll be right back.
HARLOW: I'm going to -- I'm going to go to the bathroom.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[06:20:15]
PENCE (via phone): I have had the opportunity to read the indictment that was filed. I can't defend what's alleged. These are serious allegations. And the handling of classified materials, as I learned in my years as vice president and my years on the Foreign Affairs Committee, is a very serious matter that bears upon the national security of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: That is former Vice President Mike Pence, saying that he cannot defend these allegations in the indictment against Donald Trump over his handling of classified documents.
But at the same time, in the same breath, really, saying he does believe that this case is politically-motivated.
Back with us, our experts. So looking, Sara, at -- I think I was in the minority. I was telling you that I was sort of surprised that Mike Pence even went that far in saying, "I can't defend it." But then he sort of hedges it by also saying, I think it's political.
MURRAY: Yes, I mean, I think, in some ways, it was surprising to me that Mike Pence didn't keep his powder a little bit dry ahead of time. Because I mean, what did you think was going to be in this indictment?
Like, we knew already that they took a whole lot of stuff when they searched Mar-a-Lago. We knew that they took over 100 documents with classified markings. There's been great reporting by CNN and by others about Donald Trump talking to people, you know, potentially even showing people these classified documents.
So I don't know what Mike Pence thought he was going to find in this indictment. But it seems pretty clear that now he's read it, and he's like, Oh, this is bad.
HARLOW: Yes.
MATTINGLY: Shelby, I think you made a good point about this is kind of his -- how he's tried to find a lane, right? The Constitution -- respect for the Constitution, the candidate that holds that up in some degree. I guess this sort of tracks like that.
HARLOW: Given what he did on January 6th.
MATTINGLY: Yes. It very much lines up with that idea of things.
We also heard Nikki Haley weigh in, saying that she -- over the course of the day, made clear, that she felt that it was problematic. However, she would be willing to pardon the president.
I think what we're all trying to get a sense of right now is where is the primary moving in terms of how Republicans respond. TALCOTT: I think they'd love not to respond, quite frankly. But, given
that they will have to respond, Mike Pence is, I would say, going to be the baseline of kind of separating himself from saying that Trump is innocent and this is, you know, a witch-hunt, but also saying that it's politicized.
And that's kind of the safe bet for a lot of these candidates, because so much of the Republican base believes that the DOJ and the FBI are politicized. So they get points there.
And then they kind of get points in terms of keeping their credibility by admitting these are really serious charges and, you know, maybe we shouldn't jump to, you know, immediately pardoning them, like the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) has promised to.
COATES: No. 2, he lives in a glass house. I mean, he had classified documents. I know there can be discussions about to what extent they were there, his knowledge of it into the new home, whether they were sealed and talk about these different issues.
And so he's not going to necessarily throw the most convincing and persuasive stone in that instance. So he's cautious of that, as well. And remember, that already concluded as him not being charged.
But Biden still lives in a bit of a glass house, albeit a White House at this point in time. And there's a lot of conversations abut what you can say and what you can do and expose yourself to these things.
But remember, this is the head of the executive branch. The idea of the Presidential Records Act, which by the way, we played at the top of the hour, there is no grace period for turning over documents. When the clock strikes 12 p.m. for the inauguration, that's it. You're supposed to, in your lame duck period, do all that you could to get the documents returned. That's just patently false.
The NARA has come out repeatedly to say, Hey, this has been a frequent question. No, you do not have this grace period. You must turn it over. It's not tchotchkes. It's defense-related information.
CAMPBELL: It's interesting. Because your point about the strategy is something you're talking to law enforcement, people in the FBI, Justice Department. It's not flipping a switch when it relates to the attacks on them. It's not like if Donald Trump loses, he goes away, all of a sudden everyone goes back to, OK, we respect law enforcement, you know, these institutions.
And the theme seems to be, you know, if you're going to pick off Trump votes, it's, OK, he did something bad. Maybe there's a spectrum there of, you know, how forceful they're going to be.
But they're also then going to say, but the Justice Department was politicized; but the FBI needs to be reformed. And so they try to kind of have it both ways.
And so it's interesting for people in law enforcement. They don't think these attacks are going to end anytime soon, because this is a political strategy.
HARLOW: President Biden -- We have some great reporting by Jeremy Diamond and the team here at CNN about the Biden White House strategy of silence on all of this. So let's play some of what Biden said yesterday that made clear that's the way they're going now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you comment on the arrest of the former president, sir?
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATE: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[06:25:03]
HARLOW: And that's about all you're going to get. You would know. You are the chief White House correspondent.
MATTINGLY: I have a day job, yes.
HARLOW: Are they going to be able to stick --
MATTINGLY: Yes.
HARLOW: -- to this?
MATTINGLY: Well, Sara and I were talking about this. The interesting thing is the first lady actually weighed in last night, and not in, like, a specific way about the legal side of things. You will not hear the president talk about this at all.
I appreciate Jeremy at an East Room event, where you're pretty far removed from the president, shouting out and trying to get that, because it's important to know. Yes, we know he's not going to talk about it. We've heard he's not going to talk about it. That's their strategy.
Sometimes the president doesn't necessarily want to follow --
HARLOW: Right. That's right.
MATTINGLY: -- what his team thinks. And I think this underscores the seriousness with which he views this issue and also, I think, the ability to grasp they understand that any connection, any element that could be pointed to as, I was involved in this or I appointed my attorney general to do this, is massively problematic to the public perception.
HARLOW: Sure.
MATTINGLY: Democrats think this is -- just like Republicans, should be attacking on the substance of this politically. The president and his team say, absolutely not.
HARLOW: We'll see if the people around him and, you know, surrogates do the same thing, though, as the election gets further along.
OK. First here on CNN, our crew forced to duck for cover on the front lines of Ukraine's counteroffensive as the fight against Russia intensifies. We'll take you live to Zaporizhzhia, next.
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