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State Of Ukraine's Counteroffensive Two Weeks In; Officials: About 100 Letters Containing White Powder Sent to Kansas Legislators And Public Officials; Doctors Urged To Rely Less On BMI, Citing Concerns Over Health Stigma And Bias. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired June 20, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Ahead, in our next hour, we will be joined by the Coast Guard rear admiral you just heard from, John Mauger. He's overseeing all of these search and rescue operations.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: New overnight, Ukraine says Russia launched another massive air attack on Kyiv using various Iranian drones. Now, this comes two weeks into Ukraine's counteroffensive against Russia. President Zelenskyy says his troops have not lost any positions so far.

A senior Ukrainian official says that Kyiv has recaptured eight southern settlements in the last few weeks but, still, the offensive operations have not yet gained the momentum that some were anticipating.

CNN military analyst and retired Air Force Col. Cedric Leighton is with us now. Colonel, good to see you.

Let's start with just framing the conversation and analyzing the effectiveness of the counteroffensive at this point. Can this analysis be as simple as succeeding-failing just a couple of weeks in?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST, FORMER MEMBER OF JOINT STAFF, PENTAGON: Not really, Victor, and good morning to you. The real thing about this is that there is so much that's going on here that it's really hard to determine exactly who is winning and who is losing.

And, you know, when you take a look at historical comparisons like, let's say, D-Day back in 1944, it took a long time for allied forces to actually go through all of France to actually conquer and reconquer that territory.

So the Ukrainians have actually done pretty well in the last few weeks because what they've been able to do is not only capture these eight settlements that you talked about right here but they've also been able to expand some of their operations. And as President Zelenskyy mentioned, they have not lost any territory to the Russians. And that's in spite of some of the Russian's ability to move aircraft and artillery into areas and to really take a large piece of this front and turn it into an artillery zone -- a free fire zone if you will for them

BLACKWELL: I want to pull that thread a bit more about the Russian preparation. What do you know about and what is your assessment of their readiness for this surge?

LEIGHTON: So this is really interesting when you look at some of the different aspects of this, Victor.

Let's compare things, first of all, with what things were like back last year when Ukraine very quickly captured this area around Kharkiv. So they captured around 3,400 square miles. They're not doing that right now. And one of the reasons that they really can't do that is because of the trenches and these things called dragon's teeth that the -- that the Russians have put in place right here. So this is an example of that. They are also right here on the other side of the road.

But what these things are doing is they're preventing tanks from moving forward in these areas. And plus, what they also do is they force an advance only along these paths right here. And that, of course, can be blocked up. So the Russians are far readier than they were before to control these areas. That makes it very difficult for the Ukrainians to move forward in these cases.

BLACKWELL: I know that you're concerned about some demographic challenges and maybe changes in Ukraine that could make it difficult for them to continue to defend. Explain that.

LEIGHTON: So, yes, that's a really good point, Victor. Because when Ukraine gained its independence back in August of 1991 from the Soviet Union, it had a population of 52 million people. Right now, it's somewhere around 43-plus million and that's not including movements by refugees out of Ukraine, internally displaced people.

So what this means is that they have a far fewer population pool to pull from -- far less of a pool to pull from than they had back when they first gained independence. So it's making it more difficult, in some ways, for them to really put their defensive forces together. They can obviously do it but they have a big demographic challenge, which is actually greater than Russia's demographic challenge at this point in time.

BLACKWELL: What are you watching for in the near term to know about trends of where this is going?

LEIGHTON: So let's take a look at the eastern front. So one of the key things that I'm looking at here Victor is what's going to happen around Bakhmut. This area right here has really been the scene of so many different fighting -- battles that have taken place over the last nine-10 months.

It looks like the Ukrainians are able to gain some of these areas back. And if they can do that here and then if you can see what's happening down here in the Kherson area and the Zaporizhzhia area, what I'm looking at is the Ukrainians possibly coming in this way and this way. And one of the key things to actually look at is when you look at

those areas, plus the eight settlements right here that they've been able to capture in these particular areas, you're looking at the Ukrainians possibly being able to move toward the Sea of Azov, which is this body of water right here.

[07:35:02]

If they do that, then they can really cut this land bridge. And if they cut this land bridge, what that means is that they will have inflicted at least a tactical defeat on the Russians. If they can do that, this counteroffensive will basically be a partial success.

BLACKWELL: All right, Col. Cedric Leighton. Thank you so much, sir.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Victor -- any time.

HARLOW: Well, this morning, the FBI is now involved after at least 100 suspicious letters were sent to Kansas public officials with white powder inside. One of those lawmakers will join us next.

(COMMERCIAL)

HARLOW: Well, authorities are on alert this morning after about 100 threatening letters with a white powder inside were sent to state legislators and public officials across the state of Kansas. Preliminary tests show that substance is harmless. Still, though, incredibly scary.

Republican State Rep. Stephen Owens says he received one of the letters and believes the other recipients are also fellow Republicans. The letter to him read, in part, quote, "It's important not to choke on your ambition." And it was signed "Your secret despiser." Is that right? Do I have it right?

[07:40:00]

Representative Stephen Owens joins us now. Do I have that right about who signed it?

STEPHEN OWENS, (R) KANSAS STATE HOUSE (via Webex by Cisco): Yes, you certainly do. And as I understand, more than 100 letters at this time have been sent to Republican legislators and state officials throughout the state of Kansas.

HARLOW: What did you think when you opened it?

OWENS: Well, at first, I was very much caught off guard by the note -- by its context because it was very cryptic in that they used a local address to ensure that we, as legislators, believe that it came from a local constituent and then, certainly, opened it.

BLACKWELL: So these letters were sent to Republicans across the state. Do you know specifically if it's legislation-centered, if it is ideologic -- ideologically-centered? Why do you think you received one? OWENS: Well, when you look at this letter it says to honor your recent accomplishments. So it is my personal belief that this probably has to do with some of the veto overrides that occurred in the Kansas legislature this year where a supermajority of Republicans in the House and the Senate where we have a Democratic governor, which certainly share some differences of opinion.

HARLOW: So let's dig into that a little bit more if we could because this year you mentioned those veto overrides. The state legislature, led by a majority of Republicans, has overturned nine of the Democratic governor, Laura Kelly's, vetoes. Some of them have focused on more controversial issues. Transgender rights has been the subject of a few of those pieces of legislation.

You have said, quote, "There's a question whether maybe it's related to some of those vetoes that we overrode."

Do you have any direct indication other than what that letter says?

OWENS: No -- definitely, no direct indication. But Kansas was the first in the nation to legally define what a man and a woman is biologically for others -- for the state statutes that currently are on the books. And so, sometimes being the first and doing what our constituents sent us to Topeka to do could potentially lead to things like this.

BLACKWELL: The initial tests of the powder that was included in the envelope have determined that it's not harmful.

Do you have greater concerns for your safety now that you know you're one of this group that's been targeted by the letter?

OWENS: You know, personally, I do not. Certainly, concerned for other members of the legislature. Our families, if you really think about the implications had this been biological. I have colleagues that open their mail at their table in their home. I happened to be in my truck at a stop sign when I opened this.

You know, it's -- it certainly is concerning and we will certainly be more vigilant, but it does nothing to do deter doing what our constituents sent us to Topeka to do.

HARLOW: Representative, we know the FBI is involved now. I mean, 100 letters is really scary. Have you gotten any update from the Feds or local authorities in terms of do they think this is one person sending them? Is it more? Is it in-state? Is it out of state?

OWENS: We haven't received any specific information like that. I know it's an ongoing investigation. Our KBI director, Tony Mattivi, is doing a fantastic job leading local, state, and federal law enforcement as they attempt to identify whoever this is or whomever. It could be multiple.

I do know that the postmark -- while it had a local Hesston address, in my case, as I live in Hesston -- the postmark was out of Kansas City. And so, I'm very confident in their ability to locate and apprehend this individual.

BLACKWELL: Representative Owens, it sounds like although this was shocking that it doesn't change much for you. Do I have that right?

OWENS: Oh, that is 100 percent correct. It doesn't change anything for myself, my colleagues, or our determination to do what believe is best for the state of Kansas. We are even more resolved.

And I think it's important for anyone out there that considers anything like this threat or threats of violence realize that does not change someone's political opinion. As a matter of fact, it makes them dig their heels in deeper and have stronger resolve to continue forward and do the things that our constituents sent us there to do.

HARLOW: Representative Stephen Owens, please keep us posted. Thanks for your time this morning.

BLACKWELL: Thank you, sir.

OWENS: Thank you very much.

BLACKWELL: New overnight, CNN affiliate WABC is reporting that four people have been killed after a fire broke out at a New York City bike shop. At least two others are critically injured.

The flames erupted just after midnight on Manhattan's Lower East Side. Firefighters pulled several people out of the building just above an e-bike shop as heavy smoke engulfed the area.

Fire officials say when an e-bike catches fire it's not a slow burn but more of an explosion and difficult to put out because of the lithium-ion batteries used.

[07:45:01]

HARLOW: Yes, very scary.

This just in. Also, scary moments for people in the air. Passengers on a flight from the Philippines to South Korea were on board when a man tried to open a plane door while they were still flying.

Officials say this happened an hour into the trip when the man was behaving strangely. Flight attendants moved him to a seat near the door so they could keep an eye on him, and that's when he ran to the door and tried to open it. Fortunately, he failed. He was handed over to the police when the plane landed in Seoul.

Just last month, you'll remember, on a different flight -- this was in Korea -- a man managed to actually open an Asiana Airlines exit door just before landing.

BLACKWELL: New guidance says doctors should steer away from using a key indicator of body weight, the BMI. I've been saying this forever.

HARLOW: I don't even --

BLACKWELL: I've been saying it forever.

HARLOW: I don't even like hearing about BMI --

BLACKWELL: I've been saying it forever.

HARLOW: -- so can we ignore it now?

BLACKWELL: We'll tell you what's behind the change.

HARLOW: Also, later, this 619-pound blue marlin was disqualified from a multimillion-dollar fishing tournament. We'll tell you why.

HARLOW: Why have you been saying it?

BLACKWELL: Because I've got a high BMI.

(COMMERCIAL)

[05:50:00]

BLACKWELL: So this is the measure of height and weight that some refer to as a scarlet letter. It's the BMI. Poppy is already laughing. We've been talking about on break.

HARLOW: And he doesn't like it.

BLACKWELL: I do not like it.

It's been used for decades in health assessments. But now, the American Medical Association is warning it has significant limitations with a history of use for racist exclusion.

CNN's medical correspondent Meg Tirrell is here to explain. So, the BMI, it's everywhere.

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Everywhere.

BLACKWELL: I am well aware of mine.

TIRRELL: Me, too.

HARLOW: Me, too.

BLACKWELL: What are doctors saying is wrong with it?

TIRRELL: Well, probably we all shouldn't know our BMIs, like, so well, right?

HARLOW: Should or should not?

TIRRELL: Should not.

HARLOW: OK.

TIRRELL: I mean, it is not supposed to be a measure of individual health risk. And that is the increasing push -- is to stop using it as the only measure.

I mean, the BMI -- if you look at the history of it, this was something that was come up with in 1832 by a Belgian mathematician trying to sort of characterize the average man. So this was done with primarily white, European populations. It wasn't until the 1970s that it was really sort of validated as this measure of fat across the population. That was done in men. So this is a measure that really looks at the population level, not at the individual level.

And so, the American Medical Association is out now with a recommendation to try to move beyond this. The problem is that this is really used everywhere, not just as a screener for obesity but also as sort of a gatekeeper for weight loss drugs that can affect whether you can access fertility treatment or different kinds of surgeries.

HARLOW: Wow.

TIRRELL: And it can even come into play in life insurance rates.

And when you have these differences across groups -- racial groups, age groups, sexes -- that can actually play into some discrimination where if you're only looking at BMI --

HARLOW: Sure.

TIRRELL: -- you might not be actually assessing people's real health risks.

HARLOW: Yes, absolutely -- especially with so many of those things predicated on whether you can get certain things, what your insurance rate is going to be.

Is there a recommendation from the AMA on what doctors should use instead?

TERRILL: The problem is that there's not one perfect measure of body fat, and so they recommend a number of different things. One is a measurement of so-called visceral fat. That's the sort of fat around the middle that can be more dangerous than fat that's carried on the hips or thighs. Also, waist circumference, which is another way of kind of looking at that.

But then, doctors tell me what's really important is risk for metabolic syndrome. Do you have high blood pressure? Do you have pre- diabetes? Things like that. And they do say that BMI can be a helpful indicator to at least look for those things. We can't toss it out the window but we should not be depending on it as the sole important indicator of our health.

BLACKWELL: The best story of the day, Meg. Thank you very much.

HARLOW: There is hope for us.

BLACKWELL: Yes, I appreciate it. Meg Tirrell, thanks so much.

TIRRELL: Thanks. BLACKWELL: The NBA Draft is just two days away and the teenager sensation expected to go at number one has now arrived in the U.S. Victor Wembanyama is the best NBA prospect since LeBron James. Some think he's the best ever. He's seven-foot-five, 19 years old, a Frenchman -- touching down in the U.S. yesterday ahead of the draft.

Wembanyama mobbed by fans and autograph hounds. He signed as he made his way through the Newark airport. Someone even already has a Spurs jersey there waiting for him.

Wembanyama -- Wemby, as some call him -- said he was a little surprised at how many people were there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VICTOR WEMBANYAMA, I don't know how they knew my -- what flight I was on but, you know, it's fun seeing that you can have such an impact on people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: San Antonio will be taking Wembanyama number one Thursday night.

One Spurs fan is ready. Check out this Wemby haircut -- carving the man's image into the back of his hair there.

HARLOW: Oh my gosh, that's so good.

BLACKWELL: Yes, that's commitment, that's right. Because you've got to keep that fresh. You can't let --

HARLOW: Totally great.

BLACKWELL: -- Wembanyama get a little raggedy day five or six. You need to come back every three days and keep it fresh.

HARLOW: Oh, I love that.

All right. Well, it is a race against time this morning to find the missing submersible with five people on board. The U.S. Coast Guard commander in charge says they searched an area about the size of Connecticut. He joins us next with the latest details.

BLACKWELL: We'll also speak to a man who made a similar trip to the Titanic wreckage and can shed light on what the crew may be experiencing as they're waiting for someone to rescue them. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL)

[05:58:19]

HARLOW: Good morning, everyone. We're so glad you're with us on this Tuesday. I'm very happy to have my friend Victor Blackwell who made the journey up from Atlanta to be with us. Good morning.

BLACKWELL: Happy to be here.

HARLOW: What a morning.

BLACKWELL: Yes, there's a lot going on.

HARLOW: What a morning.

A desperate search underway for a tourist submersible that was diving on the Titanic shipwreck. We have new information this morning about five people on board, including a famous French diver.

BLACKWELL: Donald Trump is offering up a new defense on why he didn't turn over those classified documents. He says he was too busy to go through the boxes.

HARLOW: New this morning, French police just raided the headquarters of the Paris 2024 Olympic organizing committee. We'll tell you why.

This hour of CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

BLACKWELL: Search and rescue teams are racing against time now to find a submersible that vanished while diving on the Titanic shipwreck. Now, these are some of the last images of the sub as it descended with five people on board Sunday morning. The U.S. Coast Guard says the passengers would have about four days worth of air.

HARLOW: The ocean is around 13,000 feet deep at this site. The U.S. and the Canadian Coast Guards have been using planes and ships, and buoys with sonar to search for any signs of this submersible. The commander overseeing the operation says they have scoured an area roughly the size of Connecticut. They did that overnight.

This was a tourist sightseeing expedition and it cost a quarter- million dollars a seat. We know the passengers included a British billionaire explorer. Also, a Pakistani businessman and his son. And the family of a famous French diver and Titanic expert is now confirming that he was also on the submersible.

Joining us now on the phone is Rear Admiral John Mauger. He is the First District commander for the U.S. Coast Guard. He is overseeing the search and rescue operations.