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CNN This Morning

Banging Sounds Detected in Search for Missing Sub; Hunter Biden Strikes Plea Deal to Avoid Jail Time; Trump Support Softens Following Latest Indictment. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired June 21, 2023 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they're going to be at almost freezing temperatures. It's going to be dark.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now, all of our efforts are focused on finding the sub.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Hunter Biden has agreed to plead guilty to two tax misdemeanors and he struck a deal to resolve a felony gun charge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prosecutors are expected to recommend no prison time.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): This does not happen if Hunter's last name is anything other than Biden.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is false equivalence. It's all the things that we have seen from Republicans, doing what they can to protect Donald Trump.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: The federal indictment of former President Trump now has a trial date, tentatively, August 14th.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A new CNN poll shows former President Trump support is slipping following his indictment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This race seems frozen as best as I can tell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are seeing how he is reacting to the indictment. This is the kind of thing that even looks bad to his base.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: John Durham will testify today on his scathing report on the investigation into Trump's alleged ties to Russia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He gave the impression some of the misconduct is individualized, but then some of it is systemic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know that we have to learn from the mistakes made in these investigations to make sure that Americans can have confidence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The flow of migrants has slowed in the U.S. while a surge is taking place instead across the border in Mexico.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mexico City, which is far from the border, has now become a border town, but in the center of Mexico.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Being able to shelter and to provide protection for migrants has never been an easy process.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It shows you just how desperate and dangerous some of these journeys are.

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POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. We are so glad you are with us on CNN This Morning. As you can see, we have a lot to get to this hour. But we do begin with the desperate search this morning.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. If you are just waking up, a huge development overnight in the search for the missing submarine the vanished while diving on the Titanic shipwreck. Sonar picked up banging sounds every 30 minutes during the search yesterday. And, of course, this is giving new hope that the five people on board might still be alive. That is according to an internal U.S. memo -- a government memo, I should say.

Now, the U.S. Coast Guard confirming that a Canadian surveillance plane detected noises underwater. Right now, they are racing to find out where those banging sounds are coming from. But, as you know, time is quickly running out. It is estimated that passengers have maybe 24 hours of breathable air left if the submersible is intact.

CNN Senior National Correspondent Miguel Marquez is in St. John's, in Newfoundland, live actually in front of a Coast Guard boat that is on standby to go out and help. The big news, the banging, what are we learning about the source, potentially, of the banging sounds?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think they are trying to figure that out. But I want to show you what is happening. This is the Terry Fox. It's a Canadian Coast Guard ship right behind me. And we are going to keep the camera on that because they fired up the engines a short time ago, they pulled the ropes up, they're pulling them up right now. So, it is about to head out there. That's been on standby, one of two Canadian Coast Guard ships on standby.

We were at the Horizon Arctic ship that left overnight. It is about two hours out now. So, there is an all-out scramble to get to this location, to try to figure out where the sounds were coming from, specifically those sounds, over a four-hour period yesterday, they were able to pick up banging, every half hour or so. It is still not clear where it was coming from. After that, they heard other sounds but did not sound like banging, they said.

One concerning note is that they had to then move surface resource ships to the area where they are trying to co-locate or zero in on where that banging was coming from, meaning they were possibly searching in the wrong place or have the ships in the wrong place to figure out where the banging was coming from.

It is still unclear what the banging was, but all on the U.S. side, the Canadian side, from the air and on the surface, every entity is now in a desperate search. Because if they are alive, they only have about maybe 24 hours left of air. If they have lost power, is it extremely cold down there? And it is not clear that they would have enough food and water to survive over four days, as well, just a miserable situation. And there is still hope that they can find these people alive. Back to you guys.

BLACKWELL: Yes. That banging every 30 minutes, as we have learned, and assumed it is not occurring naturally, that is someone or something making that noise. Do we know when we will get our next update to find out if the banging has continued into today?

MARQUEZ: The Coast Guard has been doing regular updates around 1:00 Eastern Time. So, we expect that we may have another update sometime mid day. It's difficult to say, though. There are so many moving parts right now, but we hope to get more information on an update later today.

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BLACKWELL: Miguel Marquez there in Newfoundland for us, thanks so much.

HARLOW: So, joining us is someone who knows one of the people on board that vessel, Bill Diamond. He is the CEO of SETI Institute, where Shahzada Dawood is a trustee. Bill, thank you for being with us. I'm sorry because I cannot imagine what you're going through right now, just hoping for the best. I wonder if you feel a little more hopeful this morning with the news of that banging.

BILL DIAMOND, PRESIDENT AND CEO, SETA INSTITUTE: Yes. Well, like everyone, I woke to this news. I am actually here in Iceland, so a little earlier in the time zones. And I was, I guess, elated on one hand. On the other hand, certainly aware that if they are alive and okay, that fear and desperation must be just something unimaginable. But it is certainly very hopeful news and we continue to hope for an amazing outcome here.

BLACKWELL: Bill, have you been in touch with the family? Because not only is Shahzada on this vessel, so is his son, Suleman. Have you spoken with them? Do you know how they are doing?

DIAMOND: Well, I have not only indirectly through one of our other board members, who is a very close, personal end of the family and associate, Reema Khan (ph). And Reema (ph) has been in touch with Shahzada's mother. That is how I originally found out is that his mother had shared this information that Shahzada was on board and that his son, Suleman, was with him.

And I can only say in this notification, his mother was stoic, to say the very least, and, of course, hopeful, like all of us. I knew, of course, that Shahzada was going on the expedition. We've been at our April board meeting in Mountain View, California, and was excitedly telling me about this trip. So, I knew this was coming but it was such a shock to hear that the submersible had gone missing.

HARLOW: And like you mentioned, the last time you saw him, he was telling you about what he and his son were going to go do and how excited he was to go on this journey. Did mention the risks involved to you?

DIAMOND: Not really. I think Shahzada is extremely intelligent individual, a very humble man, perpetually curious. That is the driving force behind his wanting to go on this expedition. I think, surely, he was aware of the risks and was certainly aware that undertaking a dive to this kind of depth in submersible is a dangerous undertaking. But he didn't really dwell on that or talk too much about it at the time.

BLACKWELL: There is a leap from perpetual curiosity to boarding this vessel and going 13,000 feet down to see the Titanic shipwreck. Had he done stuff like this before?

DIAMOND: Not that I am aware of. Shahzada is a business executive and leader. He's very passionate about education, about science and science literacy, about equity and fairness. He's, again, as I mentioned, a very, very humble man. He is not what I would consider one of these sports adventurers. He doesn't go on death-defying missions or ride motorcycles over cliffs or any of these sorts of things, parachuting, scuba diving, to the best of my knowledge. So, I never thought of him as a daredevil in any sense.

Again, somebody who I think understanding the risks would be willing to do something that some might consider extreme just to satisfy those curiosity and callings, but not, otherwise, any kind of a daredevil.

HARLOW: Well, Bill Diamond, we are right there hoping with you today. Thank you very much for helping us learn more about your friend.

BLACKWELL: Thank you, Bill.

DIAMOND: Yes. Thank you very much. We all hope for the best.

BLACKWELL: New reaction this morning to Hunter Biden's deal with the Justice Department. His lawyers say the investigation is resolved. Republicans do not agree. Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace joins us to discuss, next.

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BLACKWELL: This morning, a growing number of Republicans are slamming Hunter Biden's plea deal with the DOJ. According to court documents, the president's son has agreed to play a guilty to two tax misdemeanors for failing to pay his taxes on time in 2017 and 2018. As part of the plea agreement, the DOJ will recommend probation. A judge however will have the final say on any sentence.

Now, Hunter Biden will also see a felony gun charge dismissed if he meets certain conditions. Biden's attorney released a statement yesterday that read in part, quote, I know Hunter believes it is important to take responsibility for these mistakes he made during a period of turmoil and addiction in his life. He looks forward to continuing his recovery and moving forward.

Now, President Biden was asked about his son yesterday. Watch this.

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JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: I am very proud of my son.

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BLACKWELL: House Republicans, meanwhile, were quick to criticize the plea deal.

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REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): If you are the president's leading political opponent, the DOJ tries to literally put you in jail and give you prison time. If you are the president's son, you get a sweetheart deal.

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BLACKWELL: All right. Joining us to break down the agreement is CNN Legal Analyst Elie Honig, former assistant attorney for the Southern District of New York and a former federal and New Jersey prosecutor.

Elie, first, let's just start with the charges. Walk us through them and what happens next.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Sure, Victor. It took five years but we finally have a resolution on the Hunter Biden case. First of all, Hunter Biden is going to plead guilty to two counts of willful failure to pay income taxes for the year 2017 and '18.

[07:15:00]

The allegation is that, each year, he made about $1.5 million in income and he owed but did not pay in excess of $100,000. It doesn't specific how far in excess, but in excess.

This word is really important, willful. That means he did it on purpose. He knew he was supposed to pay his taxes. He knew he did not pay them. It was not some sort of accident.

Now, that's a misdemeanor, meaning the max penalty is one year. But the parties have agreed that the appropriate sentence here should be probation, which is absolutely normal for a misdemeanor. It's rare to see a misdemeanor result in anything more than probation.

Second of all, there's an agreement that Hunter Biden, he's going to be charged with possession of a firearm by an addicted person, a fairly rarely charged firearms law. If he abides by certain conditions, if he stays clean, if he does not get arrested again, then this case will be dismissed without him ever having to plead to it. It's called pretrial diversion.

Now, what happens next? DOJ and Hunter Biden are going to have to go into federal court down in Delaware. Biden will enter his guilty plea in front of a judge to the tax counts. He will say, yes, I failed to pay my taxes. Yes, this was a crime. Yes, I am guilty. Important to note, it is up to the judge, even though the parties have agreed the sentence here should be probation, it's going to be up to the judge.

Now, virtually always when the parties have an agreement, a judge will abide by that, but judges can depart. So, I think it's very, very likely the judge sticks with the agreement, sentences Hunter Biden eventually to probation.

BLACKWELL: Slim chance, but as his attorney says, this is likely resolved once we get to that point.

HONIG: Exactly.

BLACKWELL: All right. let's talk about the U.S. attorney here, and also let's talk more about timeline and how we got here.

HONIG: Really important to understand who the players are. David Weiss is the U.S. attorney for Delaware. He's a longtime federal prosecutor, has served in administrations of both political parties. In 2018, Donald Trump nominated him to be the U.S. attorney. He got through the Senate, by the way, with support of both of Delaware's Democratic Party U.S. senators.

And then when Joe Biden took over in 2021, usually, a president gets rid of all the U.S. attorneys or they resign. He left David Weiss in place because of this case. He didn't want there to be any appearance of impropriety.

David Weiss got a letter from Jim Jordan saying, we want your testimony, and David Weiss fired back. And he said, no, thank you, I respectfully decline. And he made a point of saying, I've been granted ultimate authority over this matter, including responsibility for deciding where, when and whether to file charges. What David Weiss is saying is, this was my decision, not Merrick Garland's, not the brass at DOJ.

The timeline is so important here, Victor. Like we said, this started five years ago in 2018, 2021, two and change years later, Biden comes in and he leaves Weiss in office. But the thing I want to point out here is DOJ under the Trump administration, under a Republican administration, had two-plus years where they did not bring any charges, they did not bring any more serious charges than Hunter Biden has now seen. So, keep that in mind when you hear complaints from certain Republican congressmen.

BLACKWELL: The White House has not suggested that this could happen, but potential pardon. What do you know? What's the history? HONIG: So, certainly, Joe Biden has the constitutional power to issue a pardon here. I wouldn't bet on him doing it before the election, if ever. There actually is a little bit of interesting history on familial presidential pardons. Bill Clinton, on his last day in office, issued a pardon to his half brother, Roger Clinton, who many, years before, had been convicted of drug crimes. Donald Trump also issued a pardon on his final day to Jared Kushner's father, Charles Kushner, who'd been convicted in New Jersey of witness retaliation and tax crime. So, there is some precedent in history here for issuing family pardons. They don't go down well in history, but they have happened.

BLACKWELL: Elie with all the context. Elie, thanks.

HONIG: Thanks, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Poppy?

HARLOW: I appreciate it.

South Carolina Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace tweeted yesterday, quote, Hunter Biden gets a slap on the wrist for federal tax and gun crimes but they want to give Donald Trump a death sentence. Well, she joins me now. Good morning, Congresswoman.

Why does this deal not pass muster, in your view?

REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): Good morning. Well, it really is just a slap on the wrist and it came one week after the indictment of Donald Trump over the documents. For years now, the FBI and the DOJ have known about other crimes potentially committed by Hunter Biden other Biden family members. And today, I have more questions than I have answers. I would like to know if those things are being investigated.

I've seen suspicious activity reports, bank records, 1023 forms, unclassified 1023 forms that were red acted by the government on alleged crimes by the Biden family. And I believe that the American people should be able to have access to all that information, know what's really been going on, because a lot of people, they get smacked with a gun charge, they don't get to walk away like Hunter Biden. There's a lot more here to this story, I believe, than meets the eye.

HARLOW: Hunter Biden fully repaid the back taxes, plus a fine, and it's not really rare for someone to have a deal like this in terms of a federal gun charge if they're not a convicted felon or have not used the gun in commission of a violent crime. Republican Senator Mitt Romney said yesterday, quote, I don't know that there's any evidence that suggests this is out of character with other individuals who come under similar infractions.

[07:20:01]

Is he wrong?

MACE: Well, there are some examples on social media yesterday of others who've had federal gun crime charges and had more significant, I guess, repercussions for that. But at the end of the day, this is the president's son, and on the House Oversight Committee, we are investigating other allegations. And those are the things that I want the American people to know about, the documents that we've seen on oversight of alleged bribery scheme, racketeering, potentially money laundering. There's a lot of things that are going on with this family that is more to this story than what we're hearing about today.

HARLOW: Do you believe that tax avoidance and this gun charge are on par with allegations that the former president of the United States obstructed justice and willfully retained very sensitive state secrets?

MACE: Well, in this charge, with regards to Hunter Biden, there's a lot more to this story with Joe Biden as vice president, as Senator Joe Biden even had classified documents that he sat around in boxes in his garage for years. Hillary Clinton had a private server in a bathroom. Staff used a hammer on devices like phones and iPads, et cetera, to destroy evidence, that was obstruction. She was never charged with anything. So, whatever the standard is for current presidents, past senators, past vice presidents, even if your last name is Donald Trump, the standard should be the same for everybody.

HARLOW: But I'm asking you specifically, Congresswoman, about the statement I just read at the top of the interview that you basically said what they're trying to do to Trump is not fair, compared to what, The deal that they gave Biden. Putting it another way, you said that President Biden is using, quote, his DOJ to put his top political rival in jail. Former Attorney General Bill Barr and the Trump administration would disagree with you.

He writes in this op-ed this week, quote, if true, many key facts come from Trump's own lawyers, he writes of the indictment, this was brazing criminal conduct that cannot be justified in any way. It is time that Republicans come to grips with the hard truths. Trump's indictment is not a result of unfair government persecution. The effort to present Trump as a victim in the Mar-a-Lago documents affair is cynical political propaganda. Is he wrong?

MACE: I do love some Bill Barr and agree with him on many issues, but this is one where I absolutely disagree with. The American people are going to see this as something completely different.

Now, I think the conversation about how we handle classified information as current and former presidents, vice presidents, senators, secretaries of state, that is a very valid conversation to have. And if we're going to have that conversation, we have to talk about Hillary Clinton and how she handled classified information as well, because that's why the American people see that there are two tiers of justice in this country, that if you're a Republican and your last name is Trump, it's different.

I mean, he's facing hundreds of years in jail. That is a death sentence for anybody in this country. It seems a bit overdone here.

HARLOW: I think you know that -- you're adding up all of the counts, if you were convicted on all of the counts, many legal experts have said, including in Lawfare, that that is not how it would play out in terms of sentencing.

But, look, you said on June 9th on this network, to my colleague, I'm still keeping my powder dry and watching the Republican primary process, when asked about if you would support Trump for president, again. I think it's interesting you point out how the American people feel. We have brand new CNN polling this morning that shows us how the American people feel, and there's a softening support of Trump. He still leads but it's softening after the indictment.

And what's really interesting is that a majority of Americans and a significant majority of independents both approve of the indictment government and think Trump should end his campaign as a result of that. That is not just Democrats. That's a majority of independents. What's your reaction to those numbers?

MACE: Right. Well, I'd say the majority of Democrats, independents and Republicans and that are like 71 percent of Americans don't want Joe Biden to run because they think he think he's too old and too senile. So, I think that it cuts both ways.

But I do believe that -- and I come from a very purple district. I have a lot of independent voters, a lot of independent types of people that have supported me over the years. And I will tell you that when the second indictment came down, there was a lot of frustration because is they felt like there was a double standard in the way that he was treated.

And these are people that are not Trump supporters. They wanted to stay out of the 2024 election who are now going to jump on board and contribute and try to support his campaign. A lot of people believe that he will win the nomination no matter what. And I'm seeing some of that support change.

And I'm someone who -- I'm on the sidelines. I'm going to keep my powder dry for '24 and watch what happens. I come from a very purple district in the low country of South Carolina. It's not like the rest of the state, but South Carolina is going to be a very important state in this election in '24. So, we're just going to keep an eye out and keep watch.

HARLOW: Can I just ask you then, would you support Trump as a Republican nominee if he is convicted on these charges or is that a line for you?

[07:25:00]

MACE: That's a loaded question this early in the morning.

HARLOW: Come on. It's 7:30, which is not early for working mothers, as you well know.

MACE: I haven't had my coffee yet today.

HARLOW: Come on, would you -- is that a line? If the former President is convicted of these charges or any of them?

MACE: That's not a reality day. I'm not willing to entertain it today, but thank you.

HARLOW: I want to ask you also -- we were going to have you on yesterday, and I'm glad you could join us this morning to talk about A.I., because this is a big focus of yours as well. And I do want to ask you about this hearing that you're holding tomorrow on A.I. to examine what the federal government is doing. We just saw the president, Joe Biden in California and San Francisco, focusing on A.I., on the risks and the benefits. Is this an area where you think you can work with the White House?

MACE: Oh, 100 percent. I have a history of working on cybersecurity issues with the White House. In fact, my colleague across the aisle, Ro Khanna from California, and I have done several pieces of legislation, some of which has been signed into law by President Biden. And on Oversight Committee, cybersecurity is a place where we've actually had folks on both sides of the aisle be able to find some agreement where you can get the squad and the Freedom Caucus together. You know, it's a good issue.

But look, I mean, we want to make sure that our country, that our defenses are ahead of China and Russia and other adversaries. We don't want to hit pause on technology innovation and development here. We want to make sure that we're protecting consumer data, government data and also headed into 2024. I think we want to make sure that information that people know the source of their information, that they know that if this video has been manipulated or not.

I mean, there's just a lot of things that we need to address very quickly, sooner rather than later. Which is why you're seeing me on Oversight tackle A.I. and cybersecurity absolutely whenever we can.

HARLOW: I think that the American people are very glad to hear this is somewhere where there's going to be a lot of bipartisan work. Congresswoman Nancy Mace, thank you.

MACE: It might be the only place. Thank you.

HARLOW: Let's hope not. Thanks. Victor.

BLACKWELL: Bud Light says it is coming back after it was dethroned as America's top selling beer. How it plans to get back on top.

HARLOW: Also, The New York Times reports that industry leaders warned the company behind that missing submersible years ago about using a, quote, experimental approach that could result in catastrophic problems. What we know about the regulations as this urgent search continues.

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