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Two Previous OceanGate Employees Voiced Safety Concerns Years Ago About Now-Missing Titan Sub; Trump Support Softens Following Latest Indictment; U.S. Task Force Recommends Screening Adults For Anxiety Disorders. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired June 21, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:31:18]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Well, as searchers trying to find the missing submersible that may be nearly 13,000 feet below the surface we want to give you some perspective on how deep underwater this vessel may be.

Now, consider this. The Statue of Liberty is 305 feet tall. The Eiffel Tower, just under 1,000 feet tall. The world's tallest building, the Burj Khalifa in Dubai, is more than 2,700 feet tall. The Grand Canyon rises up to 6,000 feet tall. If you double the height of the Grand Canyon and add a little more, that's how deep underwater this missing sub may be.

Let's bring in Gabe Cohen, who was onboard this submersible in 2018.

So, Gabe, let's talk about regulation. The New York Times obtained a letter from industry experts expressing their concerns with the Titan. Tell us about this letter.

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, Victor, more than three dozen specialists, like oceanographers, deep sea explorers -- all of them signed this letter back in 2018 warning about potentially catastrophic problems with this vessel -- with the Titan -- and then sent it to OceanGate's CEO, according to this New York Times report.

They expressed concern -- all these specialists -- over what they referred to as the company's experimental approach to the vessel and its Titanic expedition, saying that it could have negative outcomes from minor to catastrophic that would have serious consequences for everyone in the industry.

And they were specifically concerned about OceanGate failing to follow a certain maritime risk assessment certification, basically saying OceanGate's marketing material was advertising that the Titan would meet or exceed those safety standards. And yet, the company didn't seem to be following any of the rules to ensure that.

They write, quote, "Your representation is, at minimum, misleading to the public and breaches an industry-wide professional code of conduct we all endeavor to uphold."

Essentially, Victor, they wanted OceanGate to follow the same standards as other vessels, especially ones that are carrying passengers, but they didn't seem to get their wish.

In 2019, OceanGate actually put up a blog post addressing this issue, explaining why the Titan vessel isn't classed. And they basically said that process would slow innovation and it could take years to get certified. And they said they've used those standards before as a benchmark for at least one of their prior vessels. But essentially, they believe classing by itself -- classing a vessel is not sufficient to ensure safety because it doesn't actually assess operational factors to make sure that the vessel is being operated properly -- Victor.

BLACKWELL: Gabe, those concerns are from people outside the company, but there have been concerns raised by employees of OceanGate in the past, too, right?

COHEN: Yes, Victor, that's right. We have now learned that two former OceanGate employees separately brought up similar safety concerns about the Titan -- about its structure -- specifically, about the thickness of the Titan's hull -- when they were employed by the company years ago.

One of them raised concerns in a counter lawsuit against the company basically saying OceanGate hadn't performed non-destructive testing on the vessel's hull to test its structure and make sure it was sound. And he claims that when he raised those concerns he was essentially told that no equipment existed to actually perform that type of test.

Now, we know that lawsuit was eventually settled and dismissed. And filings indicate that there was some additional testing after that employee's time at the company, but it's unclear if those concerns were actually addressed.

Now, we know another former employee speaking to CNN on the condition of anonymity, said that he became concerned when the Titan's carbon fiber hull actually arrived at the company. It was five inches thick, he said, when the company had told them it would be seven inches thick.

[07:35:05]

And he said he told Stockton Rush, the CEO, who is one of the five people missing right now, that the company, OceanGate, could be violating a U.S. law relating to Coast Guard inspections with all of this, but he said the OceanGate CEO dismissed it. So then, that employee resigned -- Victor, Poppy.

BLACKWELL: All right, Gabe Cohen doing some digging there. Thank you for the reporting.

New CNN polling shows support could be softening for Donald Trump after his federal indictment. We will break down those numbers. POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, how a potential August trial date the same month as, by the way, the first Republican presidential debate -- how this could all impact the race for the White House.

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HARLOW: New CNN poll numbers reveal some vulnerabilities -- some -- for the GOP presidential frontrunner in the race, Donald Trump. The post-federal indictment snapshot of the Republican race shows yes, he's still way in the lead but support is softening a bit.

Let's talk about all of these numbers -- because they're really, really interesting -- with our political director, David Chalian. I love this poll simply because it has me interested but then confused a little later on. So we'll go through all of it.

[07:40:09]

Let's start with the warning signs for Trump.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, and as you noted, we're seeing this slightly softening in support among Republicans, Poppy.

Take a look here if you just look at the overall horse race right now. Donald Trump, as you noted, still the clear frontrunner for the nomination. He's got a 21 percentage point lead -- 47 percent to DeSantis' 26 percent. Everyone else in single digits.

But look here. He's down six points from where he was in May. He was at 53 percent. So that's one thing to watch.

We asked people your favorable-unfavorable opinion. Do you feel more favorably to Trump or more unfavorably? Among Republican and Republican-leaning voters -- that's what you're looking at here -- his favorable number is down 10 points from 77 to 67 percent since May. And his unfavorables are up nine points.

We also asked Republicans and Republican leaner would you even never consider Donald Trump at all? Do you just rule him out as an option, right? Sixteen percent said that in May. Now that's up to 23 percent who say that now. So it is some softening but still the clear frontrunner.

BLACKWELL: So what does this mean for the GOP more broadly?

CHALIAN: Well, Victor, it means it's a party at odds with itself because it doesn't know what is the best option to defeat Joe Biden in 2024. We asked Republican and Republican leaners. It splits evenly. About 51 percent say Donald Trump at the head of the ticket is their best chance in '24. Forty-nine percent of Republicans say someone else.

HARLOW: OK, this is where I get confused but fascinated. What are Americans saying about the Trump indictment?

CHALIAN: So everything we were just talking about was in the context of the Republican primary -- the Republican electorate. This is now more broadly looking at Americans overall.

And it is not good news for Donald Trump. Sixty-one percent overall approve of the federal indictment. Obviously, nearly all Democrats. But look here, guys. Two-thirds of Independents approve of the federal indictment.

Yes, Americans do see politics at play here, so that is one of Donald Trump's, sort of, selling points that he's trying to convince Americans that it's all politics. Seven in 10 Americans say some politics or perhaps politics plays a major role. Again, two-thirds of Independents believe that as well.

But look at this number. Fifty-nine percent of Americans -- six in 10 -- want Donald Trump to end his campaign now after this indictment --

HARLOW: Yes.

CHALIAN: -- nearly all Democrats. Again, 62 percent of Independents say Trump should end his campaign now.

BLACKWELL: And if this comes to just Biden versus Trump, what then?

CHALIAN: This is the campaign no American wants, according to all the polling out there, to see a repeat here. And look at this. You see they are equally unpopular.

Joe Biden's favorable and unfavorables in this poll -- 32 percent favorable, 56 percent unfavorable among Americans. Look at Donald Trump. It's roughly the same. Thirty-three percent favorable, 59 percent unfavorable.

These are two unpopular folks who may end up taking each other on for a second time in 2024.

HARLOW: Buckle up.

BLACKWELL: Less confused? More excited?

HARLOW: I'm just fascinated by that and I'm always excited when David Chalian gets up early to hang out with us. So --

BLACKWELL: Yes, always good to have him.

HARLOW: -- thank you, David.

BLACKWELL: All right, let's bring in CNN political commentator and host of "You Decide" podcast, Errol Louis, and TIME senior correspondent, Charlotte Alter. She's also the author of "The Ones We've Been Waiting For: How a New Generation of Leaders Will Transform America."

Errol, let me start with you. So, former President Trump is now not 27 points ahead, he's 21 points ahead. Should he be terribly worried about this?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, COLUMNIST, NEW YORK MAGAZINE, HOST, "YOU DECIDE" PODCAST: He should be a little bit worried because there are more and more people jumping into the race.

And what that says, among other things -- you know, you have the mayor of Miami and all these other people coming forward. What it's staying is that the political class who think they have some donors, and some base, and some rationale, and some ability to campaign are all saying we don't think he's invincible. We don't think he's necessarily going to be around. We either expect something cataclysmic, like a conviction, to maybe disqualify him, or we just don't think he's going to make it for one reason or another. And so, that should be of some concern to Donald Trump.

You know, the conventional wisdom, which we've talked about before, is that a big, crowded race will help him. It makes it look more like 2015-2016 and he can squeak through with this relatively small plurality of support. But I don't know if that's necessarily the case. When you've got people pounding at you every single day, that's not going to be a good place for Donald Trump.

HARLOW: And if there is a trial before the -- if he makes it to the general and has a trial before the general and there is a conviction, that also really changes the equation for people.

What about Independents? That's what I find most fascinating, Charlotte, about the polling is that a majority of Independents both support the indictment and think it means Trump should drop out of the race. He needs Independents.

CHARLOTTE ALTER, TIME SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, AUTHOR, "THE ONES WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR: HOW A NEW GENERATION OF LEADERS WILL TRANSFORM AMERICA": Yes. I mean, he and the GOP need Independents. They can't win a national race without Independents.

[07:45:00]

And another number that came up in this poll that I thought was really interesting was the roughly a quarter of Republican and Republican- leaning voters who said that they would not support Donald Trump under any circumstances. That is really bad news for Trump. I don't know that those are necessarily Biden voters in a general election but they could easily just stay home. And he cannot win a national election without those voters.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

Ron DeSantis didn't move a point from May to the most recent poll. Any of those six points, he didn't pick up.

LOUIS: That's right. I mean, the -- looking at the numbers it looks like all of these newcomers who were jumping into the race on an almost weekly basis -- new people getting in -- Chris Christie and so forth --

BLACKWELL: Yes.

LOUIS: -- they're taking from Ron DeSantis, not necessarily from Donald Trump. And that's very bad news for Ron DeSantis. I mean, he's tried to position himself as the alternative to Donald Trump but that's not necessarily what voters see.

HARLOW: Not a alternative.

LOUIS: That's right.

HARLOW: Not a alternative.

Let's talk about this trial because the fact that Judge Cannon has set a trial date for August 14 -- obviously, that can move. But doesn't it tell us that she would like to see this go pretty quickly, which is what the special counsel, Jack Smith's team, wants.

ALTER: Yes. I mean, it really seems to indicate that she is leaning towards getting this done as soon as possible. You know, we also have to be careful. There's a lot of other litigation and stuff that will slow down this process. It could be that this is not actually an August trial but it does seem to indicate that she is trying to make this trial happen as soon as possible -- likely, before the election the next year -- and that's not great news for Trump.

BLACKWELL: Errol, what does the Hunter Biden deal pretend for the 2024 race?

LOUIS: I mean, look, it brings up the big elephant in the room, which is that Republicans are closing in on 20 years in which they could not win the popular vote in this country.

What people actually care about -- every poll that we've looked at tells you what common sense would tell you. People care about prices. They care about their kid's tuition. They care about their family and their future, and the economy.

And the Hunter Biden fixation that led to the first impeachment of Donald Trump that seems to be the only issue that any Republican candidate wants to talk about right now -- it tells you that they don't have a hold on it. They haven't figured out how to talk to the country. And so they've got this strictly political partisan fixation that they think is going to carry them back to the White House. It's a really difficult thing to watch because the country has really important issues that we should be talking about -- not Hunter Biden's laptop.

BLACKWELL: All right. Errol Louis, Charlotte Alter, thank you, both.

HARLOW: Thanks, guys.

A new survey shows doctors are concerned about harmful effects from the Supreme Court's ruling overturning Roe versus Wade. We'll explain why they're worried ahead.

BLACKWELL: And just in to CNN, new details about the man accused of murdering four University of Idaho students last fall. What court documents just revealed about the DNA that was found on the knife from the crime scene.

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HARLOW: So this is interesting. We told you last week about the significant drop-off in Bud Light sales. Well, the parent company, Anheuser-Busch -- those executives say they want to put Bud Light back on top. They say they've learned some lessons in all of this.

Last month, of course, Bud Light lost its title as America's top- selling beer. There was backlash over a partnership with a transgender influencer.

Christine Romans joins us now.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT, ANCHOR, "EARLY START": One little customized can on an Instagram post has sparked this huge boycott and controversy for Bud Light.

So we are hearing from the top marketing executive of the company at the Cannes Lion Festival and this is what he said. "When things get divisive and controversial so easily, I think it's an important wake- up call to all of us marketers to be very humble."

He goes on to say it's tough to see all the controversy and divisiveness, specifically in the United States, with other companies and brands as well. And he said they've got to be open to learning and listening to their customers. He said they're going to be back on top and he's optimistic that things are going to come back. It's coming back, he said, but they are going to be going around the country listening to their customers.

HARLOW: Does that mean they wouldn't do that again?

ROMANS: It's --

HARLOW: I mean, that was a sign of inclusion.

ROMANS: Exactly. And they're not apologizing for it and not saying that they're going to revert from inclusion, but saying that they've found themselves humbled in the middle of this brouhaha.

I've been watching the sales numbers, too. The king of beer, Bud Light, lost that place to Modelo. And I think it's interesting. There are other trends going on in the beer market, too. The boycott will likely fade. I think it caught a lot of people by surprise how strong it was and beer sales for Bud Light were down like 24 percent --

HARLOW: Right.

ROMANS: -- in the period. It was a real -- it was a real clear rejection of that brand.

But there's also -- you know, Modelo has had better marketing, quite frankly, around Cinco de Mayo, and people are drinking different things now. They're drinking craft beers. They're drinking -- so there's a lot going on in this business --

HARLOW: Fair.

ROMANS: -- the light beer business. But watch this space. The company humbled, and I think a lot of C-suites are worried about finding themselves in this situation -- criticized on the right but also criticized on the left for being wishy-washy.

HARLOW: Yes. Well, know what you stand for --

ROMANS: Yes.

HARLOW: -- I think is the lesson, Christine.

ROMANS: And stand for it.

HARLOW: Thank -- and stand for it. Thank you very much -- Victor.

BLACKWELL: For the first time, a key panel of U.S. medical experts is recommending all adults under 65 be screened for anxiety disorders. The move follows a recent recommendation to screen kids down to age eight of anxiety disorders as well.

CNN medical correspondent Meg Tirrell is with us now. All right, tell us about these new recommendations.

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So this is a finalization of a recommendation from the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force. And essentially, they're saying all adults under 65 should now be screened for anxiety regardless of whether they show symptoms.

They put out this report yesterday. They said there's not enough evidence to say that older adults should be screened for anxiety right now and that more research needs to be done.

[07:55:00]

Interestingly, the research does show that, sort of, in the older populations, anxiety is less. That's the lowest group that sees anxiety levels, but they could have it as well.

And so, anxiety disorders -- they're characterized by disproportionate and constant fear over everyday events, which can be accompanied by behavioral issues like restlessness, fatigue, trouble concentrating, irritability, trouble sleeping.

So these are real problems and we saw them really spike during the pandemic. In the first year, in 2020, we saw both rates of depression and anxiety globally going up by more than 25 percent. So it's not just the pandemic but this is something that's exacerbated these problems and we need more attention paid to them.

HARLOW: Also this morning, a new survey shows that a majority of OB- GYNs across the country are worried about negative health implications for women from the Dobbs decision overturing Roe versus Wade. Why is that?

TIRRELL: Yes. This is something that people worried about when this happened -- that there could be just this ambiguity in understanding how to provide care under the law, and also that the actual legal restrictions could lead people not to be able to provide the care that they need.

And this is what this KFF survey is showing. More than two-thirds of these OB-GYNs surveyed said that it has worsened their ability to provide pregnancy-related emergency care. Twenty-four percent nationally say they've had patients unable to obtain an abortion that they sought. Twenty percent say they've had constraints on their ability to provide care for miscarriages or other pregnancy-related emergencies, and that's even higher in states --

HARLOW: That's some of the same drugs that are used.

TIRRELL: Exactly. And that there's just this sort of ambiguity legally around this.

And 36 percent say this has worsened their ability to practice within the standard of care.

So a year on we're seeing these effects.

BLACKWELL: Yes, certainly.

Meg Tirrell, thanks.

TIRRELL: Thank you.

HARLOW: Appreciate it.

A sound -- a sound of hope in the search for that missing submersible with five people on board. Sonar picking up banging sounds. That's according to an internal government memo. We're live right near the scene of the search.

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