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Russia Accuses Wagner Chief Of Urging "Armed Rebellion"; Human Rights Groups Accuse Wagner Group Of Atrocities; Wagner Chief Claims To Have Seized Control Of Key Military Facilities In Two Russian Cities; United States, France, Poland, NATO, All Say They Are Monitoring The Situation In Russia. Aired 7-8a ET

Aired June 24, 2023 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:00:00]

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR (on camera): Good morning, everyone. Welcome to CNN THIS MORNING. It is Saturday, June 24th. I'm Amara Walker.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Victor Blackwell. Good to have you along this Saturday. We are starting with breaking news this morning.

WALKER: We sure are. That is the crisis in Russia, the dramatic developments, raising questions about President Vladimir Putin's grip on power. Putin is accusing the Wagner Mercenary Group of an armed rebellion.

BLACKWELL: Yes, the head of the Wagner group, Yevgeny Prigozhin, says his forces have taken control of military facilities in the region of Rostov-on-Don. He threatens to move on to Moscow if Russia's top general and defense minister do not meet with him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YEVGENY PRIGOZHIN, HEAD OF THE WAGNER GROUP (through translation): Again, we came here. We want to receive the chief of general staff and Shoigu. Until they aren't here, until they aren't here, we will be located here, blockading the city of Rostov, and we'll go to Moscow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: President Putin calls the actions by Prigozhin a betrayal and a stab in the back to the Russian people and he says those who follow him will pay the price.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translation): All those who deliberately chose the path of treachery, who prepared an armed mutiny, who chose the path of blackmail and terrorist methods will face inevitable punishment and will answer both to the law and to our people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: We are following all of the latest developments in Russia.

BLACKWELL: Our reporters and analysts around the world are on this story, bringing you updates and the context.

WALKER: Yes, let's get the latest though on what's happening in Russia right now.

BLACKWELL: CNN Chief International Security Correspondent Nick Payton- Walsh is tracking developments for us there. As we said, fast moving. What's the latest?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, startling since we last spoke. We're now hearing confirmation from local officials that the town of Voronezh has seen an explosion. It seems related to the presence of Wagner military fighters near it. Now, it's important because it's halfway between Rostov-on-Don where you saw the pictures just there of the Wagner Head, Yevgeny Prigozhin, that seem to have casually swanned in there overnight.

Halfway Voronezh is to Moscow which they've claimed is their ultimate objective here. Now that is a startling thing frankly to say. We are now in utterly unprecedented territory for the 23 years in which Vladimir Putin has run Russia, and something, I think, which many thought may have been inevitable if there was adequate discontent within military ranks at how this war has been catastrophically bungled from the start.

But the open nature of this armed rebellion utterly stunning. And essentially, Moscow now relying on what remains of its loyal special forces, its loyal military to commit an act of fratricide, frankly, and attack its fellow fighters, the Wagner Group, battle-seasoned, well-equipped, they've done a lot of the fighting on the front lines in the ugliest places like Bakhmut, and quite clearly now they've decided that enough is enough.

These are brutal people, though, so we're not seeing a battle, frankly, of good versus evil here. But this all began back on Friday afternoon, where Yevgeny Prigozhin who's been a fool and frankly in the side of Russia's top military brass for months now criticizing their conduct relentlessly, took a new step where he essentially said the rationale for the invasion of Ukraine by Russia in February of last year was flawed.

That Russia was not about to be attacked by NATO, that Russians were not being persecuted, essentially undermining the very reason this war has been fought. Hours later, he claimed an airstrike had hit one of his camps in Ukraine and Russian military said it wasn't them but that's who he pointed the finger at and then we have this remarkably, it seems, spontaneous.

But also, if you look at the number of Wagner fighters on the move it looks pretty well-prepared move towards Rostov-on-Don. That's kind of the Tampa Florida, frankly, of the Russian military where CENTCOM is based in the United States as a comparison, a key military hub in which now Prigozhin has shown himself swooning around the military H.Q., startling developments with now Moscow in their sights. Victor, Amara.

[07:05:00]

WALKER: Just a quick question Nick, I mean you're talking about how Prigozhin has been so vocal for weeks now in his criticism against the Russian military leadership, you know talking, calling it incompetent, saying that he's not getting enough support, not enough ammo. Did Putin not see this coming?

WALSH: Possibly. The real question for this entire war is the quality of information that Vladimir Putin has been getting. A man isolated extraordinarily throughout the pandemic, he sat away from foreign dignitaries by a ridiculously long table. And so, the ultimate question is what is his elite actually telling him? And the man we saw answering Prigozhin's moves today Vladimir Putin looked very angry.

He made comparisons to the undermining of Russia's presence in the First World War in 1917 by the disputes there that caused the Communist Revolution, and so, essentially, I should say the Bolshevik Revolution. So essentially a man who's clearly rattled here. Is that because he's so distant from reality on the ground? He thought this unimaginable or did he think that you've gained a progression was a loyalist who'd never dare do something like this again?

Utterly misread the situation in his own country over which he claims such Homogeneous hermetic control almost and a startling day. Frankly. I never thought I'd see this after two decades of covering Vladimir Putin, actually, potentially, facing the arrival of an armed insurrection inside the capital.

BLACKWELL: Nick Payton-Walsh with the reporting for us there. Nick, thank you. Let's talk about the Ukrainian angle of this. The president there, Vladimir Zelenskyy, says that Russia's actions in Ukraine have led it to the chaos it is now engulfed in.

WALKER: CNN Senior International Correspondent, Ben Wedeman, joining us now live from Zaporizhzhia, Ukraine. Ben, this is happening as Ukraine is wrapping up its counteroffensive against Russia. How does these latest dramatic turn of events impact the war in Ukraine?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, obviously the impact is going to be huge. We have to wait and see what actually happens in Russia. But so far, Ukrainians are transfixed by what they're seeing happening as the troops who invaded this country in a full-scale invasion in February of last year are turning upon themselves and the Kremlin is gripped by chaos.

Now, President Vladimir Zelenskyy has put out a statement on social media saying that Russia's weakness is obvious, full-scale weakness. The longer Russia keeps its troops and mercenaries on our land, the more chaos, pain and problems it will have for itself. Now, some Ukrainian officials are saying that this sudden breakdown in the Russian leadership is as a result of the Ukrainian offensive, which began earlier this month, and so far, has been by and large a fairly modest affair.

But yesterday we were up near the front lines and what we saw were a lot of troops, a lot of equipment really poised to perhaps go into battle in ways we haven't seen so far. Most analysts believe that the Ukrainians have yet to commit the bulk of their forces to this counteroffensive and as this is going on what's happening in Rostov- on-Don where it appears that?

Evgeny Prigozhin has essentially taken control that is where Russia keeps the headquarters of its southern military District that is a strategic command center for all Russian forces in this part of Ukraine And if that is no longer able to function in coordination with Moscow the question is how is it going to direct Russian military activities in southern Ukraine in light of the fact that the Ukrainians are perhaps on the verge of really ramping up this offensive that we haven't yet seen achieve too much. Amara, Victor?

BLACKWELL: Ben Wedeman for us there. Ben, thanks so much. Let's go now to CNN White House Reporter Jasmine Wright. Jasmine, what is the White House saying about the developing situation in Russia?

JASMINE WRIGHT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Victor, well, they are monitoring this situation closely. That could have really widespread geopolitical ramifications as this continues. We know as of last night, the White House said that President Biden had been briefed on this very serious issue. And the National Security Council put out a statement just a few hours later, really talking about the fact that we are monitoring the situation and we will be consulting with allies and partners on these developments.

Now, obviously, that allies and partners portion of the statement currently on your screen right now is important because President Biden spent a lot of time keeping the unity between allies and partners, really trying to not only support Ukraine, but also deter Russia from doing anything else in Ukraine and basically trying to get them to pull out, obviously unsuccessfully at this point. So really wide implications for President Biden, but also for those allies.

Now, as early as January, we heard officials from the podium just behind me talk about the fact that they had received intelligence pointing to an internal struggle between Russia and the Wagner group and that the fact that they were from that time at least gathering information and really closely monitoring that information to the point that U.S. officials basically said that they felt that something could mount in terms of tension, boil over, and of course, here we are.

Now, I will just say that from this from last night the White House and the National Security Council have been very, very particular Into what information they're putting out understanding the fact that this is a very quickly moving Situation that anything could change in an instant but a question going forward not only is President Biden going to be re-brief this morning over what happens overnight U.S. time, but also what how else is he going to engage?

We've heard from other leaders in Europe saying that they would be talking to their allies and partners. Of course, that would include President Biden. So, we've asked the White House how President Biden is going to engage, who he is going to talk to, and how else is he going to stay up to date on what's happening in this very serious situation unfolding in Russia.

[07:10:59]

WALKER: Yes, very serious indeed. Jasmine Wright, thank you very much. Joining us now to discuss more of this is Josh Rogin, a Columnist for The Washington Post. Good morning to you, Josh. An autocrat cannot be portrayed as weak. An autocrat's authority is not supposed to be challenged. How do you expect Putin to respond to this? Because it will be quite a consequential moment for him, won't it?

JOSH ROGIN, COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: Right. I think what we're seeing here is that all of these dictators who rule by force are, are essentially gangsters, they're essentially mafia dons, and they're running fiefdoms that include smaller crime families that they often play off against each other in order to keep control, and now that's all blown up in his face.

So, there's no other option for him but to quell the rebellion and turn the forces that are still loyal to him and the sub-mafia families that are still on his side against Prigozhin and Vagner Group. But that's not just a problem for Putin in Russia and Ukraine Remember the Wagner group operates in 40 countries on behalf of the Russian state their extent essentially an extension of the Russian Influence operation in places like Libya and Syria and Sudan and Mali and the Central African Republic, et cetera, et cetera.

So, this is not just a problem for Putin's domestic standing and for his war in Ukraine. It's a problem for Russian influence all over the world and could really rapidly expand into a worldwide crisis.

BLACKWELL: In that global context, we've heard Justin Jasmin write that short statement that came out from the National Security Council there at the White House that they're watching. We saw a similar statement from Germany, from France as well. We're monitoring. What is the threshold to expect that any of these Western powers will do more than watch?

ROGIN: Right, Victor, well, the general rule is when your enemy is making mistakes, the best thing you can do is let them. OK, so there's no reason for the United States or Ukraine for that matter to get in the way. But there are some red lines. I think, you know, one of the things that intelligence officials are surely looking at is the control over nuclear weapons, which are spread all over Russia, by the way.

Surely, Prigozhin knows where they are and how valuable they are. And you know, another thing to look for is the other types of biological chemical facilities. Again, this is a failing empire. This is a Russian state that is going down the tubes pretty fast, actually, before our eyes. That's not to say that Putin will be deposed. I don't think there's a very high chance, frankly, that Prigozhin is going to be able to march on Moscow with just 25,000 troops. But an increasingly desperate Putin is increasingly dangerous.

Now, of course, we want Putin to lose, so it's not as if we're going to come to his aid or anything like that, but when these states collapse or when these governments come under pressure, they're likely to do a lot of crazy stuff. So, I think that's the point at which U.S. and Western officials might go from concern to actively involved.

WALKER: You know, U.S. officials, Josh, determined as early as January that there was some kind of internal power struggle underway. And of course, you know, we saw Prigozhin just spending months railing against the Russian military leadership. So, do you think that this comes as a surprise to American officials?

ROGIN: I think we have to be honest and say that everyone's surprised by the events over the last 24-48 hours. I mean, sure, there were tensions, and sure there were internal fights, and sure there were even some warnings if you look back and ready the tea leaves. But the idea that the Wagner group could turn on the Russia military and take over Russian towns, and now be shooting down Russian helicopters and getting bombed by Russian bombers. I mean, that's crazy stuff.

Now, I didn't see that. I don't -- I'd be shocked if, if, if U.S. officials saw that planning out. But this is what crazy, psychopaths do when cornered, they do crazy, psychopathic things, which is, again, gets us back to where we started, which is that we tend to think that these dictatorships are very stable regimes, but that's because that's their propaganda. And we tend to think that we have to deal with them and negotiate with them because they're not going anywhere but the truth is that they face enormous pressures and I don't think anyone in Ukraine is looking at the situation and saying, oh, yes, that will just negotiate with Putin.

No, they're going to press the offensive, you know, because now the realize that it's working that the pressure is actually working sure there's a lot of risk in a, in, in what comes next but -- no, I don't think, I don't I don't think we can safely sit here and say that we know what that is.

[07:15:51]

BLACKWELL: Josh, we often lean on you for your China expertise. We've not heard anything from President Xi. How do you think this is resonating in Beijing? Right.

ROGIN: Well, you know, Beijing's policy has been to help Putin very quietly. So, I don't think we would have heard anything. But what's clear is that Putin is reaching out to his allies. There's already been reporting that he's reaching out to the countries in his near abroad and his traditional Military partners for help, and he's going to need it, and Xi is going to be one of those calls.

So, I think what I'm looking at what a lot of Western officials are surely looking at is Not for she to say anything because the Chinese are helping Putin quietly on purpose and denying it. What they're looking for is the real transfer of weapons and material and information and that some of that is already going on and I'm sure Putin is visibly on the phone trying to secure much more as we speak.

BLACKWELL: All righ.t Josh Rogin, thank you very much. We're, of course, closely monitoring what's happening in Russia and we'll have more when we come back.

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[07:20:59]

BLACKWELL: We continue to follow a developing story out of Russia this morning.

WALKER: The Wagner Mercenary Group has seized control of key military facilities in two Russian cities Rostov-on-Don and Voronezh. CNN's Wolf Blitzer is joining us now. Hi there, Wolf. Good morning to you.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Amara. Good morning, Victor. I'm reporting live from London right now. We're watching all of these historic, very important developments very, very closely. The Russian President Putin is calling this an insurrection, and he's vowing to punish anyone involved in treason or armed rebellion.

But Wagner's leader Yevgeny Prigozhin is rejecting all calls, at least so far, to surrender and is threatening to move on the Russian capital, Moscow, if top military leaders refuse to meet with him. Meantime, the Ukrainian President Zelenskyy is also weighing in on this historic, dramatic situation, saying Russia's "weakness, weakness" has been exposed and it can no longer hide what he calls the stupidity of its government amid an insurrection started by Wagner's chief.

Wagner's leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin has, for years, been a close ally of Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin for that matter. Let's go to our Senior International Correspondent Fred Pleitgen who's covered this for a long time. Fred Purgoshin has been a key player in Russia's war on Ukraine. Give us a better sense, first of all, who he is.

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Wolf. He's been a key player in Russia's war in Ukraine, but of course he was a key player for Vladimir Putin, as you correctly said before that as well. And we have to keep in mind, he came from very humble, small beginnings. He was in jail for a while. He was then selling hot dogs for a while in the St. Petersburg area and then became known as Putin's chef.

And that's when his career really started skyrocketing, of course, in many ways, in brutal ways, as he looked at conflicts around the world. We saw him operate in Syria, then in Africa, both with the golden diamond trade there and also training African forces, all of this laced with a lot of brutality. And now, he is someone who seems to have become the nemesis of Vladimir Putin. Here's what's happening.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN (voice-over): He's long been a well-known mercenary leader around the world. Now, Yevgeny Prigozhin is a wanted man in Russia as well. His often-merciless group of fighters is now pitted against the Russian military leadership and Prigozhin is suddenly Moscow's public enemy number one. Vladimir Putin calling for Prigozhin's group to lay down their arms.

PUTIN: All those who deliberately chose the path of treachery, who prepared an armed mutiny, who chose the path of blackmail and terrorist methods will face inevitable punishment and will answer both to the law and to our people.

PLEITGEN: He may now be something of a nemesis to Vladimir Putin, but it was his decades-long relationship with the Russian president that allowed Prigozhin to establish his own militia, the Wagner Group. Wagner served as a private army, doing controversial jobs that often not even Russia's military could do.

Prigozhin, a former prisoner himself and self-styled hard man from St. Petersburg, used Wagner to operate around the world. CNN has tracked Wagner mercenaries to the Central African Republic, Sudan, Libya, Mozambique, Ukraine, and to Syria. Along the way, Prigozhin enriched himself.

Rights groups have accused Wagner of horrific violence, like this of Wagner fighters allegedly smashing the feet and hands of a Syrian prisoner with a sledgehammer in 2017. The man reportedly died after his ordeal. The images are incredibly disturbing, like so many others attributed to his group.

For many years, Prigozhin denied the existence of Wagner, its work best done in secret. A master of myth-making, it was Prigozhin and Wagner who set up the notorious Russian troll farm used to spread disinformation around the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

But when his fighters took to the battlefield, Russian troll farm used to spread disinformation around the 2016 US presidential election. But when his fighters took to the battlefield in eastern Ukraine and began winning battles, Prigozhin seemed to want the spotlight.

[07:25:18]

PRIGOZHIN: The Bakhmut operation began on October 8, 2022, in order to give the battered Russian army an opportunity to recover. Our guys stormed this city for 224 days. There were only Wagner private forces here.

PLEITGEN: His tactics included flinging poorly armed and poorly trained troops into the so-called meat grinder of war in Ukraine's east, suffering a shocking number of casualties in an attempt to overwhelm defenses. Prigozhin rubbed his victories in the face of Russia's flailing Defense Department, venting his fury at the haphazardness and ill-planning of Russia's illegal invasion, and chastising the Russian top brass, mocking Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.

PRIGOZHIN: You think you are the masters of this life? You think you can dispose of their lives? You think because you have warehouses full of ammunition that you have that right? PLEITGEN: Now, the Kremlin's secret weapon may be its biggest threat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN (on camera): So, as you can see there, Wolf, Yevgeny Prigozhin, someone who has risen to power very quickly, it was quite interesting because over the past couple of months, as we've been seeing all this unfold, this feud between Yevgeny Prigozhin and the defense minister, Sergei Shoigu, it always seemed as though Vladimir Putin was sort of trying to be the puppet master of both of them, playing them out against one another. Well, now it certainly seems as though Yevgeny Prigozhin has turned on Vladimir Putin, Wolf.

BLITZER: Certainly does, indeed, Fred Pleitgen in Berlin for us. We'll stay in very close touch with you as well. We're going to have much more on all of these dramatic developments coming up, including how other countries are responding. That's coming up next.

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[07:30:46]

BLITZER: Let's get back to our breaking news story right now. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting from London.

Germany. Germany is now weighing in on what's going on in Russia. Officials there say that they are monitoring these developments very, very closely, and are in close contact with its international partners.

They are winning German citizens who are traveling in Russia to avoid Moscow city center, along with military facilities, and Rostov and other city until further notice right now. These are dramatic historic developments unfolding in Russia right now.

Let's get the very latest on what's happening there. Our chief international security correspondent Nick Paton Walsh, he's tracking all of these developments for us.

So, Nick, what's the situation like now?

WALSH: Yes, startling how fast this is moving. And we are now hearing from Russian officials, Kremlin loyal, that indeed there appear to have been an explosion in Voronezh.

Now, that's key. It's a city halfway really, between the Rostov-on-Don southern military hub, the Wagner fighters first moved into this morning on the way north to Moscow.

So, it is -- does appear to be growing evidence of at least Wagner fighter's presence in Voronezh. There's some other advocate suggesting they may have moved further north towards the Capitol.

But Wolf, this is just utterly unprecedented territory, that we are in. The mere idea of armed insurrection unthinkable, frankly, for the two-decade Vladimir Putin has been in power. And this is indeed a man who has been, essentially, Vladimir Putin's bag man for a number of years. Doing his bidding across Africa, behind Internet trolling, influence of foreign elections, including that of the United States. Now, it seems pushed towards this clear march on Moscow.

Perhaps, in the previous hours, Yevgeny Prigozhin may have managed to convince himself that he could launch what he said was an operation against Russia's military top brass, and leave Vladimir Putin to adjudicate afterwards as to who he'd like to see the winner.

Putin was, it's fair to say, silent for the first hours of these extraordinary events. But what we heard from the Kremlin head in the past hours makes no mistake here, and Yevgeny Prigozhin is now a wanted man, as are the possibly 1,000s of Wagner fighters seasoned in battle on the frontlines of some of the worst places during the Ukraine war, they are now also targets of the Russian military.

What level of response will be see from the Russian military is unclear. It is obvious at this stage that some kind of clashes have begun, it seems.

And certainly, the governor of the Voronezh area has said that combat measures have indeed begun from the Russian military side.

But the big question really, Wolf, in all of this, outside of the future of who is in charge of a nuclear power that's been frankly, torn down militarily over the past 16 months since the invasion of Ukraine, the ultimate question, of course, being where does this leave the war in Ukraine?

Does Russia's military there, rivet internally, begin to collapse, or are we going to see this episode short lived, and a bid by Putin to try and salvage some sense of control.

But really, the way his regime function just 24 hours ago, unlikely to ever return. Wolf?

BLITZER: So, just to give us some perspective, Nick, and I know you've covered all these events very dramatically over these past several years.

Just some perspective, have we seen actual battles unfolding, hand to hand combat or military to military combat between Prigozhin's Wagner group and the Russian military? We anticipate that unfolding soon if it hasn't started yet.

WALSH: We don't know at this stage if that has begun. The fact that the governor of Voronezh has talked about, "combat measures" by the Russian military would suggest that they have, perhaps, launched airstrikes, there's been suggestions of that in some social media video, and there have also been suggestions that a fire cause that a fuel depo in Voronezh may relate to a helicopter that was seemed to be shut down nearby there as well.

A lot of this still moving in terms of face-to-face combat between the Russian military and Wagner. No signs that we can see of that yet. But that is, if this continues, likely to happen, possibly.

But at the same time, there is a larger question as to how the Russian military -- is morale heavily damaged by the catastrophic mismanagement of the invasion of Ukraine over the past 16 months by Putin's inner circle.

[07:35:08]

And indeed, it seems sometimes him himself, how much will they -- will be on the behalf of the Russian military to take up arms to stop the Wagner Group? Some of whom are ex-military, many of whom are seasoned frontline fighters.

That's an ultimate question here. I don't think anybody really has the answer to yet, but we're beginning, if indeed, it is the case that Wagner troops are moving quite so fast through military strongholds.

But beginning to perhaps, give an indication as to the momentum behind Prigozhin's extraordinary move.

BLITZER: And presumably, you know, President Zelenskyy and the Ukrainians think this could be very, very beneficial in their war against the Russian occupation, right?

WALSH: Yes, in the short term, make no mistake that they will now be looking to see where these Wagner fighters came from, what part of Russia's frontline deployment might be being used to try and slow the Wagner advanced down -- we can't be even saying this.

And exactly what they might be doing for the frontlines in the South that Ukraine is even pressuring and pushing as we speak.

Are the Russian soldiers who've been fighting there going to think it's worth putting up a fight in the days ahead, if they didn't even know who their commander in chief necessarily is.

You can bet certainly the U.S. NATO allies are looking at satellite imaging, looking to see what this has done to the frontlines, and looking to see precisely where Ukraine can take the most advantage over the days and weeks ahead.

But first of all, I think it's important to remember, we don't know the outcome of what's going to happen in Russia or even in Moscow.

And it may not emerge that we are dealing with a more peaceful, potentially Russian state after this. This is going to be a test existentially for Putin's grip on power. If he loses, what comes next maybe worse for Ukraine. Or there may be a moment now of such chaos and disarray that Ukraine can seize the initiative.

But still, utterly startling to see this kind of open dissent swirling around the Kremlin that potentially threatens its leader.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Yes. Yes, it's a dramatic development, indeed. It reminds me back in August of 1991, I had just been the Pentagon correspondent, when CNN sent me to Moscow to cover the failed KGB coup against Gorbachev and Yeltsin at that time.

And streets of Moscow were very, very tense. We didn't know what was going to unfold. The KGB coup failed. Yeltsin and Gorbachev remained in power and the end of the Soviet Union unfolded a few months later.

All the former republics becoming independent states, as we all know. That was a dramatic development.

(CROSSTALK)

WALSH: Absolutely, Wolf. You know --

BLITZER: And what we're seeing right now, Nick, and I covered that, you know, personally in Moscow, when I was there. When -- what we're seeing unfolding right now reminds me to a certain degree of what was going on then.

WALSH: Yes, absolutely. And, you know, to some degree too, Vladimir Putin sold himself as being the answer to that chaos of the 90s. To restore the grandeur of the Russian state, and that slowly bled into an unpleasant view of Russia's imperial ambitions that have led to this totally misguided and brutal invasion of Ukraine.

But we simply don't know at this stage quite what grip on power he has. It appears that Vladimir Putin has spent a lot of time today ringing neighboring states, allies in the region or erstwhile allies, frankly, in the region, who have since spoken out against his invasion of Ukraine.

That's an odd thing, frankly, to be doing at a time when you might imagine he's more concerned about trying to shore up support immediately around him.

And so, ultimately, we are still left asking the key question, how well informed is Vladimir Putin? How good is his grasp on reality? Does he appreciate the extent of the danger heading up the M-4 highway from Rostov, to Voronezh, all the way towards Moscow? And what that could potentially do to his grip on power?

Or is he simply finding these things out at error from a loyal coterie around him, who aren't giving him the unvarnished truth?

We're going to know the answer to that in the days ahead. But it is utterly, frankly, terrifying in 2023, to see the fate of a nuclear power being decided by what seems to be battles on a main highway? Wolf?

BLITZER: And we don't know the result, what the impact of all of this is going to be. It's going to be very, very dramatic to be sure. The impact of that failed KGB coup back in August of 1991, few months later, December 1991, we saw the collapse of the Soviet Union, in part, because of that. But we'll see what happens now. This is very dramatic.

And Nick, you're going to stay on top of all of this for us. Amara, back to you.

WALKER: All right. Nick Paton Walsh, thank you. And thank you as well, Wolf.

[07:39:37]

We're going to discuss the diplomatic dynamics at play as all of this plays out, after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Russian President Vladimir Putin is accusing the leader of the Wagner mercenary group, Yevgeny Prigozhin, of urging an armed rebellion. This, after Prigozhin claimed his troops took control of military facilities in two Russian cities.

But Prigozhin denies his acts are a coup. Saying, instead, that takeovers are what he calls a march of justice. They will not interfere with Russia's armed forces, he says, in any way.

CNN International diplomatic editor Nic Robertson, is here in London with all of us. He is been following these developments.

So, Nic, how does this impact the way the Russians view this war?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: What Putin hasn't done in his speech today is address what Prigozhin is been saying. Is that the war has been fought wontedly with a massive loss of Russian servicemen's lives who haven't been given the right equipment, the right training, the right amount of ammunition.

[07:45:07]

This is something that's been brewing and building for a while. Putin is treating this specifically and only as a security threat to be dealt with, by the use of counterterrorism laws to take on Prigozhin and all his supporters.

And we don't know how that's going to play out when military -- Russia's military goes toe to toe with Prigozhin's military. We don't know how that will play out.

But from the perspective of the Russian people, this leaves the question of is this war being wisely fought? Is it -- was it a wise war in the first place? These are the questions that Prigozhin has laid out. And so far, Putin is not addressing them.

If he is able to control the security situation. And he is now has the important supporter of Ramzan Kadyrov, the Chechen leader. He's got the support of other -- of other governors, of other commanders within the military.

It would seem that he has the preponderance of the firepower at the moment to bring this all under control. But where is it -- where is it going to lead? Leave A, the strength of his leadership, the strength of his position. But in -- but in reality, where is it going to -- Where is it going to lead the, you know, the military fight in Ukraine? This is potentially a very, very weak and weakened moment for him.

BLITZER: How do you expect, Nick, Ukraine's Western allies to approach all of these historic dramatic developments that are unfolding in Russia right now?

ROBERTSON: They're going to watch extremely closely, because as much as we can see that Putin has got the support at the moment of most of his military, his defense chief, his -- the army Chief of Staff of Ramzan Kadyrov, is not going to be clear how this plays out in the coming days.

Is this part of an internal power struggle with Yevgeny Prigozhin, who was such a close ally in the past of Putin. That Putin has only now decided to confront in the extreme situation, where Prigozhin has bought his troops, that -- unheard of situation where he's bought his troops onto the streets in Russia.

That Putin has only chosen to deal with this now. So, Ukraine's allies and backers will be looking to see how Ukraine can leverage the situation.

But they will also be looking to see what plays out in Moscow. Is Putin on the verge of being replaced? Who replaces him? What does that mean for the war in Ukraine? What does that mean for the -- for the potential threat against NATO?

And I think it's very telling that we've heard from so many different governments, watch it same. They're watching the situation today.

Indeed, the Latvians are saying, look, we're tightening security, our border crossing. We're not going to allow any Russians to cross out of Russia into Latvia.

That shows the level of concern about what may precipitate on the ground inside Russia. So, I think these days, as we've all been saying, the 24 or 48 hours to Putin has this under control or not.

And if he doesn't bring it under control quickly, that shows weakness, and that shows, therefore, the possibility that he could be replaced unclear by whom, in fairly short and an -- in an unorthodox way. And that, of course, would lead into concerns about what next from Russia.

BLITZER: And we are beginning to hear statements coming in from various world leaders, urging their respective citizens to stay away from Russia, at least right now, potentially, could be a dangerous situation, especially in Moscow, and some other places as well.

Nic Robertson, we'll stay in very close touch with you. Thanks very much.

Much more on how this -- what's unfolding in Russia right now could affect the war in Ukraine. We'll have new information when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:53:15]

BLITZER: Ukraine's president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, says -- and I'm quoting now, "Russia's actions in Ukraine have led it to the chaos it is now engulfed in."

CNN senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman is joining us live from Zaporizhzhia in Ukraine, right now, the threatened war zone.

Ben, how is this likely to affect the war in Ukraine? What we're seeing unfold these dramatic historic developments in Moscow?

WEDEMAN: Certainly, Wolf, it puts the entire Russian war effort into question. Given that, at the moment, for instance, Yevgeny Prigozhin and his Wagner mercenaries seem to be largely in control of the city of Rostov-on-Don, which is the site of the headquarters of the Southern Military District of Russia, which is a strategic command center for the Russian war effort in the entirety of southern Ukraine, where we are.

And this is where the focus of the Ukrainian counter offensive is now.

So, far, that counter offensive is only achieved modest gains. The last we've heard from Ukrainian officials was that it was -- has only so far been able to take control of eight fairly small villages. We were in one the other day, and taken control of around 44 square miles.

But we were near the front yesterday. And what we saw was a military -- Ukrainian military that is poised for a massive military action.

It's widely believed, Wolf that the Ukrainians have yet to commit the bulk of their forces to this offensive that perhaps until now, it's been what's known as shaping operations, preparing, softening up a Russian positions for a big push.

And certainly, with Russia -- with the Kremlin in chaos, the military in a state of disorder.

[07:55:04]

Perhaps, now is the golden opportunity for the Ukrainians to take advantage of that disorder, to move, to push ahead in a dramatic way. Wolf.

BLITZER: Have you -- where you are in Zaporizhzhia right now, Ben, have you actually seen any change over the past, let's say, 24 hours?

WEDEMAN: No, we haven't. I mean, they actually -- today is a Saturday. Life seems to be going on as normal. Overnight, of course, the Russians fired a lot of cruise missiles more than 40 in the direction of Ukraine.

Most of them were fired down, shot down, but life is going on as normal. But most people are watching very closely events in Russia. Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes. It certainly are as they should. Ben Wedeman is in Zaporizhzhia for us. Thank you.

We, of course, will continue to follow all these historic developments unfolding out of Russia. Much more coming up after a quick break.