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Uncertainty Looms Over Russia After Insurrection; Russia On Edge After Armed Insurrection; Biden Spoke With Several World Leaders Amid Rebellion; Secretary Of State Blinken: Wagner-Russia Chaos Shows Cracks In Putin's Leadership. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired June 26, 2023 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:00:19]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good Monday morning everyone. We are so glad you're with us. What a weekend.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, if you blink.

HARLOW: What a weekend.

MATTINGLY: Or perhaps had a normal life during the weekend you missed an incredible and potentially seismic 36 hours.

HARLOW: That's exactly right. We're going to get into all of it, what happened in Russia over the weekend. Let's get started with five things to know for this Monday, June 26th, big question after the Revolt in Russia what happens now? How strong is Russian President Vladimir Putin's grasp on Power and where is the leader of the Wagner Group who threatened to March his mercenary army to Moscow? Russia says, he remains under investigation front sighting an armed rebellion.

MATTINGLY: Plus, Ukraine looking to take advantage of that chaos. It says it's gaining a ground around Bakhmut as it takes out air targets overnight.

HARLOW: Also, here in the United States severe weather across the country, 90 million people mostly on the East Coast under a threat of severe storms, 50 million people still experiencing that extreme heat. And take a look at this twister sending debris flying in Indiana.

MATTINGLY: Also, this morning U.S. Coast Guard is conducting the highest level of investigation possible into that catastrophic loss of the Titan Submersible. These questions mount over past red flags reportedly ignored by OceanGate's CEO.

HARLOW: And what if you could just take a pill and lose 15 percent of your body weight? A new study says it's possible.

"CNN This Morning," starts right now. Well as Phil said if you blinked this weekend, you missed a seismic shift potentially permanent is it temporary what happens Vladimir Putin in Russia.

MATTINGLY: The best part is we have really smart people hanging out for the next three hours to answer all of our questions. All of them.

HARLOW: That's exact, every single one.

MATTINGLY: All of them.

HARLOW: All of them. They're around us. You'll see them in a moment.

But this morning, they're growing doubts over Vladimir Putin's grip on power after 36 hours of absolute chaos. The mercenary rebellion inside Russia appears to be over four now but there are still a lot of unanswered questions. We have not heard much from Putin after the mutiny that threatened his regime. Another big question this morning where is the Wagner mercenary boss who led the revolt? You're getting for Prigozhin's current whereabouts unknown after he suddenly halted this march toward Moscow and supposedly struck a deal with the Kremlin to go into exile in Belarus. There are some of the last images right here of Prigozhin leaving a military headquarters that his troops had seized in southern Russia.

MATTINGLY: Now at this moment, this is what Moscow looks like. There's live pictures. The city was bracing for the worst over the weekend, but now the mayor says all security restrictions have been lifted. This morning NATO Secretary General said the rebellion is proof that Putin's invasion of the Ukraine is a quote, big strategic mistake. We have team coverage covering all angles the best of CNN correspondence on the ground in Russia, in Ukraine Matthew Chance is in Moscow, Nick Paton Walsh is in Kyiv, Arlette Saenz in the North Lawn of the White House and our experts are in the studio with us, where we want to begin with Matthew Chance who's live in Russia.

Matthew, it was a pretty incredible weekend. Where do things stand? What's the sense on the ground there this morning?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean what a weekend. I mean it's been absolutely breathtaking with events unfolding really at breakneck speed. But as you mentioned -- I mean the situation on the face of it seems to have calmed down massively. The emergency security measures that were imposed in Moscow as those rebel Wagner mercenary forces made their way towards the city at the weekend well, they've now been lifted. But you know and the territory I have to say that had been basically occupied by Wagner amazingly in the south of the country in particular is now firmly back apparently under Kremlin control.

But you know coupled with the relief that obviously many people in Moscow feel that even more bloodshed has been avoided is a real anxiety about what's been unleashed now by that incredible couple of days at the weekend here in Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHANCE (voice-over): It's been a weekend of Chaos in Russia. An armed insurrection threatening the Russian State ending as suddenly as it began. It kicked off on Friday with allegations of a deadly strike on a Wagner military camp in Ukraine, the leader of the Russian mercenary group Yevgeny Prigozhin accusing his rivals in the defense Ministry of ordering the attack. Russian officials denied any role but a furious Prigozhin who's repeatedly accused the military of mishandling the war in Ukraine vowed revenge.

[06:05:02]

YEVGENY PRIGOZHIN, WAGNER PRIVATE MILITARY COMPANY, HEAD (through translation): Those who destroyed our guys today along with tens of thousands of lives of Russian soldiers will be punished. I ask no one to put up any resistance. Justice for the troops will be restored and then justice for all of Russia.

CHANCE (voice-over): The threat of violence was a shocking unprecedented challenge putting Wagner on a collision course with the Kremlin. A criminal case was launched accusing Prigozhin of insurrection. But that didn't stop him.

By Saturday morning, Wagner forces had moved into the Russian city have Rostov-on-Don in the country's south taking over a key military facility there with little resistance.

All Wagner forces continued north towards Moscow shooting down Russian military aircraft that challenged them and ratcheting up the stakes as the Russian president addressed the nation.

VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translation): This is a blow to Russia, to our people. All those who deliberately chose the path of treachery who prepared an armed mutiny who chose the path of blackmail and terrorist methods will face inevitable punishment and will answer both to the law and to our people.

CHANCE (voice-over): The slow progress of the Wagner column roads were dug up along the route military checkpoints set up outside the city as Moscovites braced for bloodshed. But it was a confrontation that never came.

Behind the scenes a deal was brokered, involving the leader of neighboring Belarus. Prigozhin would halt the Wagner advance and supposedly leave for exile in Belarus. An audio message confirmed his forces would stand down.

PRIGOZHIN (through translation): Therefore, realizing all the responsibility for the fact that Russian blood will be shed from one of the sides we turn our columns around and leave in the opposite direction to the field camps according to the plan.

CHANCE (voice-over): The Kremlin later confirmed grievous criminal charges would be dropped as part of the deal.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKERS (in unison): Wagner! Wagner! Wagner! CHANCE (voice-over): But as Wagner forces dispersed on Saturday, crowds in Rostov cheered them a worrying sign for the Kremlin that Prigozhins short-lived rebellion had struck a popular chord. The big question now in Russia is what will this unprecedented challenge to Putin's rule unleash?

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CHANCE: Well indeed. And there's also questions this morning in Russia about the whereabouts and the fate of Yevgeny Prigozhin, because he hasn't turned up yet as far as where we're in Belarus. His office says he's currently out of contact and won't answer any questions until he's back in sort of telephone signal range, whatever that means. And it's emerged on Russian state media today that the insurrection charges that the Kremlin set had been dropped against him may not have been dropped after all.

And so, a great deal of confusion about his fate and his whereabouts.

HARLOW: Matthew Chance, thank you so much for this and for your reporting on this all weekend.

MATTINGLY: Now we want to turn to Nick Paton Walsh, he's live for us in Kyiv. Nick, how are Ukrainians reacting to the chaos they've seen in Russia over the course of the weekend?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean the initial glee we certainly felt over the weekend that is turning into questions about what can be realized on the battlefield. And over the weekend we heard Ukrainian officials talking about progress still around the hugely symbolic city of Bakhmut, that Wagner had lost and fought so many to get the hold of the city center of and suggestion of continued progress in the south minimal details. But again, this morning the commander of the land forces here Oleksandr Syrskyi saying that there is continued progress around Bakhmut.

Now we were hearing from Russian state media suggestions that 3,000 Chechen rebel fighters or Chechen mercenary fighters working for Russia may have been redeployed to help defend Moscow. They may have come from that Bakhmut area. But I think Ukrainian officials are still digesting exactly what the changes in Russian forces after this weekend may mean for the front lines themselves. No obvious signs have changed, but Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy what a weekend he must have had spent the back part of it talking to President Biden other allies. Here's what he had say about what we've just witnessed.

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VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translation): The longer Russian aggression lasts the more degradation it causes in Russia itself, one of the manifestations of this degradation is that Russian aggression is gradually returning to its home harbor. In our conversations with the leaders, we have exchanged our assessments of what is happening in Russia. We see the situation in the same way and know how to respond.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH: Now clearly utter chaos in Moscow, but Ukraine faces a lot of choices here. Do they let this continue to play out because look we haven't seen Vladimir Putin appear live on television since Yevgeny Prigozhin decided to turn his column of armor around? Is there more turmoil to come? And therefore, might it be wise for Ukraine to let that play out and worsen could they potentially if they threw everything at the front line right now provide an existential threat that could even potentially bring people together around Vladimir Putin because of the potential for a loss in the war here and also to the other issue they face, you can't simply deploy tens of thousands of troops in one direction overnight. It will take time for them to work out where the weaknesses are.

[06:10:19]

But really at the end of the day, the Ukrainian counter-offensive has been about pushing Moscow into complicated choices about its priorities on the front line and now there's obviously a weakness at the top and maybe Kyiv want to force difficult decisions when Russia frankly is currently struggling to work out how it recently defended its own capital.

Back to you.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Consistent state of shaping and probing and part of that counter-offensive whether or not they find new openings. It's an open question.

Nick Paton Walsh, great reporting as always. Thanks so much.

HARLOW: Nick was remarkable reporting, you know, Saturday in the middle of all of this and let's bring in our experts and talk a lot more about where this goes from here. CNN Global Affairs Analyst, Kim Dozier, CNN Political and National Security Analyst, David Sanger. And retired U.S. Army Major, Mike Lyons.

Everyone's at the table. We appreciate it very much this morning. And David let me begin with you because Nick Paton Walsh in the middle of his reporting from Kyiv this weekend, in the middle of this chaos wrote a really fascinating piece. And in it he said it's impossible to imagine Putin's regime will ever go back to its previous heights of control from this moment.

But what does this mean actually for Russia and for Putin?

DAVID SANGER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, we have to start Poppy by saying we don't know. But we do know that if you think about everything that we conceived about Vladimir Putin last week and what we think about on Monday morning it's different, right?

Last week I was seeing a senior administration official and we were musing about the fact, this was probably early in the week that we had not really seen any of the cracks in the Putin regime that many had expected. OK? By this morning, boy have we seen them.

It's a really open question how did Prigozhin not only plan this out which U.S. intelligence we think had some -- some sense of --

HARLOW: This was New York Times reporting and CNN reporting that as of Wednesday. There was a sense that this was going to happen.

SANGER: The Times (INAUDIBLE). So, they were tapped in in some way to Prigozhin's plans. They didn't do anything with that piece of data but they were tapped into it. But he got down to, you know, 150, 200 miles to Moscow, apparently largely unopposed which may explain why the deal came together.

So, if you're Putin and you're naturally paranoid, what's the old saying just because you're paranoid doesn't mean Prigozhin's not out to get you. Right? So, if you're naturally paranoid, he must now be wondering what it is he does to reassert control and that is essentially the biggest worry that the administration has right now. Because Putin in a corner feeling as if his own regime may be threatened is a lot more dangerous than Putin simply invading Ukraine.

MATTINGLY: Kim, I think the thing there's about 100 questions that I'm trying to get my head around right now, and I also think that this isn't necessarily a binary type of situation. There are so many different elements and layers we were talking about before the show. You know Prigozhin is a critical player and Russian private military operations in Africa and Libya and Syria.

HARLOW: Yes.

MATTINGLY: You know, and he leads these operations not just in Ukraine but the idea of -- to David's point, coming in unopposed the Russian military not doing anything for the most part as they went through this process. But also, I think there's a natural assumption in Putin's Russia if you do what just happened, you shouldn't be alive anymore. He's taken people out for a lot less. Why is he to the extent we know we haven't seen him in several days. Why is he still alive? Why was a deal struck here?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I think we have to measure Prigozhin's importance by how Putin sees him, that Putin let him get away with this. Prigozhin is Russia's every man and he is the man that every Russian wants to be in many ways. The street fighter that came up from nothing and became a billionaire and then is there on the front lines with the troops and saying things that no one else dares to say.

So, in that sense I think Putin understood that taking him out now would make him a martyr and damage Putin's own regime and the war in Ukraine permanently. Whereas what he's now probably got to do is we wake up to news this morning that the court case against Prigozhin hasn't been dropped.

MATTINGLY: Which is fascinating by the way.

DOZIER: Exactly.

MATTINGLY: And like (INAUDIBLE) what? DOZIER: So, what I think we're going to see now is this long-drawn-out public campaign to slowly take Prigozhin apart. Moscow's got the goods on him. I think we're going to start seeing court case data presented like here are the bribes he paid, here's video of someone that, you know, I -- it's an early morning audience, sorry this is a little bit triggering. But this is a guy who's known to assassinate people with heavy gardening equipment. Who knows what kind of thing Moscow could release that slowly tears him down in the eyes of the people. Then he can be taken out.

[06:15:10]

But if they, do it right now, Putin knows that he'll look like one of the guys in the dark suits that's taking bribes as Prigozhin alleges all of his Russian defense officials are.

HARLOW: Mike, Russia has the largest nuclear arsenal in the world. We can show people just to compare. It's just ahead of the United States and then everyone else, every other nuclear power is way below that. Obviously, Putin is in a corner. I think David put it really well. Russia is less stable than it was certainly on Friday. Secretary Blinken told Dana Bash yesterday, the U.S. does see no change in Russia's nuclear position. But should people be more worried about a nuclear Russia right now?

MIKE LYONS, RET. U.S. ARMY: And the probability is zero that they wouldn't use them. But I would say no, I think there's a lot that has to have happened prior to that happening, especially in Ukraine tactical nukes, we know that they've moved some of them to Belarus. But we've got pretty good insight on what, what they can do there. But from a global nuclear, it's unthinkable. And I'd like to think that we're not at that spot.

HARLOW: OK, go ahead. I just want to ask what the reporting that David mentioned in the New York Times, and CNN has the reporting to that intelligence officials in the West knew about this in some shape or fashion since Wednesday, and didn't do anything about it.

LYONS: A couple of things. So, I think we have to keep our fingers off it and let this happen and watch it because if we get too involved with it, especially with regard to what Russia thinks, then then he uses that story to go back to his people and say, look, NATO is involved, United States is doing. So, I think there's a certain amount of hands on your enemies making mistake, let that happen.

But this issue about Prigozhin, you know, being the charge is still there, that can be nothing more than a signal to him also that you better keep the deal that we made. It's still -- it's not necessarily they're going to take him down. I still think he's an earner he has influenced in Africa, where Russia is trying to get rare earth minerals, then they have a heads up on that. So, I think that this could be the early part -- look to Kim's point it could get could go badly if he doesn't stick with the terms that were negotiated. But however, this could just be a signal to him and said, you better stick with the program that we have.

HARLOW: Guys (ph)?

SANGER: We don't know what those terms were. That's one of the really, we're talking about a deal who's whose details, we don't know. There is an assumption and it could be completely wrong that Prigozhin would not have stopped this unless he had an understanding that his mortal enemy here the defense is --

(CROSSTALK)

SANGER: -- is gone. Right?

HARLOW: And that's -- so Marco Rubio tweeted over the weekend.

SANGER: Right.

HARLOW: That had to have been a deal made.

SANGER: We assume so. But it's just an assumption. On the nuclear weapons, I agree with Mike the strategic weapons, which we worry about because they're aimed at us or one thing. One of the concerns over the weekend when we didn't know what units were going to stay loyal Putin and what we're going to go to Prigozhin was some of those units up near the border, have tactical weapons.

And so, the concern was, briefly until this all ended, who was got control over the commanders if they flipped to go to Prigozhin. This is the first time I can remember in my lifetime, that there was concern about who actually had control of the weapons. It was brief. It turned out not to be an issue. Let's hope it remains not an issue. But that's the core of the concern.

HARLOW: Everyone stick with us, OK? Because also we'll talk about what the White House is doing and saying. President Biden and his team are closely monitoring these events unfolding in Russia. We have new reporting this morning on who President Biden spoke to and how he's responding.

MATTINGLY: And also, this morning the Coast Guard officially ending its search and rescue for the Titan Submersible. Investigation is currently underway. But officials are now looking at.

Stay tune.

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[06:22:31]

MATTINGLY: And that is a live look at the White House this morning. We're getting new details about President Biden's reaction to the insurrection slash mutiny slash we're not totally sure in Russia. And the President spoke with several world leaders in the hours after the rebellion including Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

CNN's Arlette Saenz is live from the North Lawn at the White House. And Arlette, what was the message President Biden was trying to convey to allies in this very fluid moment. ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Phil, President Biden spent the weekend working the phones with allies as the White House tried to get a handle on the impact of this seemingly short- lived rebellion in Russia. The President huddled with his national security adviser Jake Sullivan, over the weekend and officials I spoke with said that one of the President's priorities was trying to consult with these allies who have been central to the Western response to Russia's war in Ukraine. That is why he placed these phone calls to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. And also, the leaders of France, Germany, the United Kingdom, and Canada. And one of the messages in those conversations was essentially to lay low, allow the situation in Russia to play out.

They've also talked about the U.S. and the West long standing support for Ukraine throughout this war. And it really speaks to this deliberately quiet and cautious strategy that we've seen from the White House over the weekend. We have yet to hear from President Biden. And officials say that part of the reason is because they don't want to give Vladimir Putin any pretense, any reason to suggest that the West was trying to interfere in this matter.

Now, the first reaction did come from Secretary of State Antony Blinken yesterday when he told our colleague Dana Bash, that these events were extraordinary and that he did not believe they were yet completely resolved, describing it as a moving picture. But Blinken did note that the events, the rebellion show that there are some cracks in Vladimir Putin's hold on power in Russia. One of the big questions this White House will be facing today and, in the days, to come is how exactly this will impact the larger war in Ukraine? And also, broader the impact it has on Putin's power in Russia as they are now beginning to see some fissures amidst this rebellion.

MATTINGLY: Our Arlette Saenz (INAUDIBLE) late nights the National Security Council across the street in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building in with CNN's White House team. Great reporting as always, Arlette. Thanks.

HARLOW: OK, let's bring back Kim Dozier, David Sanger, Maj. Mike Lyons.

Kim, I want to play for you. What I thought was a very interesting answer from Secretary of State Antony Blinken yesterday to Dana Bash. Here it is.

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[06:25:01]

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): Do you believe that this is the beginning of the end for Vladimir Putin?

ANTONY BLINEK, SECRETARY OF STATE: I don't want to speculate about that. But -- what's so striking about it is its internal, the fact that you have from within someone directly questioning Putin's authority, directly questioning the premises that upon which he launched this aggression against Ukraine, that in and of itself is something very, very powerful. It adds cracks, where those go when they get there, too soon to say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Too soon to say, for sure, but I thought it was interesting that on the show with me yesterday, David Petraeus also pointed out, you know, if Putin were to lose power, who's to say someone more dictatorial, who may be even more feared if Prigozhin had been successful, wouldn't just fill that void?

DOZIER: Yes. Prigozhin is not the democratic answer to Russia's problems. What -- one of the problems though, is, Putin has not allowed anyone to develop popularity, leadership -- leadership skills to take the reigns after him, which is one of the fears --

HARLOW: In fact, he's in prison people like Navalny who have gained the following.

DOZIER: Exactly. So, he allowed Prigozhin to develop only as useful -- as a useful tool. One of the questions now is what happens with the Wagner Group, which was run a bit like a mafia enterprise personality based, but operates a bit like Iran uses its revolutionary guard, as an arm of foreign policy as an executor of state policy.

If you're in Mali right now, and you've got a contract with Wagner, and we're counting on them to train your forces to control terrorism in that country. Do you trust them right now? Do you trust what Moscow was sending your way? You're watching this internal rebellion and saying is, is Putin the strong man I thought he was?

SANGER: You know, there was another part of Secretary Blinken's answer, I thought was really interesting. And he did this on several networks. It was -- he said 16 months ago, we were wondering how quickly Vladimir Putin would take Kyiv. Right? This Saturday, we were wondering whether he could defend Moscow.

So, while they were being careful not to get, you know, too, in too deep, they were putting the knife in a little bit, saying your rule is in fact, in jeopardy here. I haven't heard U.S. officials sort of do that before. And remember, it's only two weeks from now that you're going to see all of those international leaders. In Lithuania, right on Russia's border, at the NATO summit with President Biden. And you got to think that that is going to drive Putin a little bit nuts.

MATTINGLY: And this actually gets to something I've been thinking about Maj. Lyons in the sense of at the NATO summit, which is a critical one has long been circled as a critical summit, given the fact that Ukraine is starting its counter offensive. Ukraine needs to continue to show progress, to ensure the Western support is maintained. Does this end up bolstering that case to some degree?

We've seen cracks is what Western leaders may say, we need to double down on the military support we're providing at this point?

LYONS: Yes, I think so. I think for example, that Ukraine, military will do much better when the more NATO equipment arrives in the coming months, survivability of the crews, you know, they're keeping our heads down right now watching what's going on across the border. But that group when they meet in Vilnius is going to send that project that more message of unity. And again, the equipment that the West has been sending is much more survivable, it's going to give the Ukraine military that better advantage.

MATTINGLY: And do you feel like in the near term, you know, the shaping the probing is a slow very slow process, which wasn't unexpected, by the way that this opens doors in the near term?

LYONS: We have to see they've been hamstrung without air superiority on the ground. They've got to focus on attacking Russian units and not trying to take real estate. They -- you know, they take these towns and then we find these towns are completely wrecked and destroyed. I know it improves morale that they're gaining ground so to speak, but for them to win. They've got to get through multiple defensive belts and then attack Russian troops, and get them not confident in their positions, get them to retreat, get them to surrender. That will be victory for them.

HARLOW: Thank you guys.

MATTINGLY: I only had like three or one of my questions.

HARLOW: Don't go far.

MATTINGLY: (INAUDIBLE).

HARLOW: Yes. We have long list here. Don't go far. Stay with us, everyone.

Also, this this morning to Coast Guard launching an investigation into the implosion of the Titan.

MATTINGLY: And we are hearing this morning from the woman who lost her husband and her son on that doomed submersible. Here her described her last moments with their loved ones.

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CHRISTINE DAWOOD, WIFE OF SHAHZADA DAWOOD: You just hugged and joked actually because Shahzada is so excited to go down, even like a little child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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