Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

Uncertainty Looms Over Russia After Insurrection; Georgia Officials Condemn Antisemitic Protests Outside Synagogues; Rent Falling In America For First Time In Years. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired June 26, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:31:41]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the chaos in Russia is making its way into the 2024 conversation here in America. Some Republican candidates taking issue with the Biden administration's handling of what happened over the weekend. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think that what this may do, Jon, is move us closer to a resolution of this battle because of Putin's weakness that's obvious now inside his own country.

WILL HURD, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When there's uncertainty and chaos, that's actually an opportunity. We should have been planning with our allies and we should have been planning with the Ukrainians on how to take advantage of this opportunity.

GOV. DOUG BURGUM, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is an opportunity for the United States and NATO to really -- to really secure a position of strength in Eastern Europe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Donald Trump, however, warned against cheering an upheaval in Russia, writing on Truth Social, quote, "A big mess in Russia, but be careful what you wish for. Next may be far worse."

Back with us, Adam Kinzinger and David Sanger.

You're shaking your head. Why?

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh. First off, Donald Trump is the most whiny -- I mean, I'm just going to be straight. He's the most whiny victim but the strongest person that's always a victim of everything. And all he does is talk -- he takes every crisis around the world where we need to show unity and he talks down the United States. Like, he thinks -- because he's only in it for himself -- that's it. Like, all he cares about is himself.

And I see that and I'm like this is a moment when we can have healthy debates about Russia and Ukraine but we shouldn't be having the former president take advantage of these moments to divide us. Be careful what you wish for because our country is far worse. Yes, and what do think -- we don't kill people either? We're so innocent about Putin?

HARLOW: He said that in that interview --

KINZINGER: Yes.

HARLOW: -- with O'Reilly -- yes.

KINZINGER: Yes. And so I just -- that's why I was shaking my head. It's just been -- I'm just tired of it and so are people.

HARLOW: Can I ask you specifically given your service in the armed forces of this country about what Will Hurd said that I thought that was interesting. It distinguished him from the other Republican candidates who spoke on this over the weekend. But he really, on ABC yesterday, went after the Biden administration saying you totally missed an opportunity here. You know, Sec. Blinken should not go around saying it's an internal matter we're watching.

Do you think he's right or wrong?

KINZINGER: So, I like Will a lot. He's a friend of mine. I think in this case, he's incorrect.

Now, I would say on the larger policy in Russia, I think the Biden administration has done a fairly good job but I think they need to be more aggressive. They constantly are like we can't cross this line and then they do. We talked about that in the prior segment.

But in terms of this moment when you have a potential coup happening, there's only downside to putting a NATO or a U.S. face on the coup.

So from Will Hurd's perspective, when he said we should be planning with our allies, I agree with that and I'm sure there was planning for what happens if these different scenarios occur. But the second we come out and -- we can't support Wagner. This is a terrorist organization, by the way, so what side are we going to take? The second we start meddling and we put a NATO and American face on it, that helps Vladimir Putin.

I like what Chris Christie said. He said basically, look, this is an opportunity to, in essence, end the war here. I just don't think this was the right time at this moment for the U.S. to get involved.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: David, from the administration's perspective -- I'm going to -- after the show I'm going to ask you for who your sources actually are and, like, their phone numbers, right?

(LAUGHTER)

[07:35:00]

MATTINGLY: But since we're on air right now, take us behind the scenes in terms of how they're thinking through not just this moment but politically on Ukraine. They are going to have to ask for more money soon. There is a political shift I think that's taking place with Republicans -- and they control the House -- that they publicly have said is not really going to impact how things are.

What do you think is happening behind the scenes? When you talk to people do they feel that way or do they think that there is problems right now in terms of getting more money and in terms of trying to speed up, if this is an opportunity, a more expansive set of weapons systems?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, WHITE HOUSE AND NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, they're a little nervous about where the money is going to come from, but it comes right out of the conversation we were just having because this week -- this past week, they had a choice. They had early warning. I don't think that early but we reported by at least Wednesday they knew something was cooking and they had to make a decision at that moment. Do they support one side or not?

Now, they couldn't come in and support Prigozhin.

MATTINGLY: Right.

SANGER: He's under sanction by the United States. They certainly weren't going to come in and give early warning to Putin, right?

So the only option that I can see would be to stay out of it and not play to the Putin narrative that this is all -- was designed by the United States and NATO. And Putin's going to push that narrative some more come the Vilnius summit -- the NATO summit in just two-2 1/2 weeks. So -- and that will be right on Putin's doorstep.

To your question, Phil -- so what the administration would like to do is move the aid to something that looks more like the way we aid Israel, which is to say we have a 10-year agreement. Congress executes on it each year. It's not really a political debate you hear about very much. That's the model they'd like to use. I'm not sure they're going to get that model and I think a lot depends on how well the counteroffensive goes.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

SANGER: But now they have a selling point. The selling point they have is Putin's weak and don't let up at this point.

MATTINGLY: This is -- they have leverage with this or at least an element of leverage --

SANGER: That's right.

MATTINGLY: -- to take on both Capitol Hill and at the NATO summit.

All right, guys, stay with us. There's still a lot more we want to talk about. A lot more of David's sources I'm going to try and get from him during the commercial break.

(LAUGHTER) HARLOW: All right. What does the future hold for the Wagner Group and the leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin, after leading a revolt against Vladimir Putin? A former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, John Bolton, will join us.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:41:18]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID PETRAEUS, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: Prigozhin kept his life but lost his Wagner Group and he should be very careful around open windows in his new surroundings in Belarus where he's going.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That was former CIA director David Petraeus with an ominous warning for Yevgeny Prigozhin following his attempted revolt against Vladimir Putin. This morning, Prigozhin's whereabouts still unknown but the Kremlin says he will be exiled to Belarus.

And all eyes now are on the Kremlin and Vladimir Putin, and what he does next. The world is asking is Putin's iron grip on power slipping?

We are joined this morning by former Trump national security adviser and former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, John Bolton. Ambassador Bolton, we're so happy to have your perspective this morning.

And let's begin there. Is this the beginning of the end for Vladimir Putin?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: Well, I think that is a possibility. But I have to say I think all of us have to avoid strenuously drawing overbroad conclusions from insufficient data. And right now, we have radically insufficient information about a whole host of things starting with the coup and attempted coup and what happened to it, and what the future holds.

I have my own doubts about how serious this coup effort was and what kind of threat it actually posed to Putin. And I have my doubts it clearly amounts to a weakening of Putin's position. But whether it's fatal as some people seem to think, I have my doubts about that.

We just don't know enough and I think that's one very good reason why the White House has done very little here, and that's a -- that's a position they should hold to.

HARLOW: You think the Biden White House has handled this well it sounds like.

BOLTON: I think they've done nothing, which I think is the right thing to do.

HARLOW: OK. Because there are some Republicans who have been calling for them to do a lot -- a lot more, Will Hurd among them.

Let me ask you this because you told our Jake Tapper in an interview none of us will ever forget last year -- you admitted to planning coups before and so you have a unique perspective on this, Ambassador.

Why do you think Prigozhin turned around?

BOLTON: Well, I think that's a question that we don't know the answer to. The Daily Telegraph in London reports that the Kremlin threatened his family and that was enough.

I think it was because the effort that he had launched was doomed. And people talk about how he got within 125 miles of Moscow with how many Wagner Group troops -- an infantry division or a squad, or something in between.

And by the way, how much ammunition did they have? People say there wasn't really a response by the Russian military. We have reports, at least, of conflict around Voronezh where the Wagner Group itself took credit for downing several Russian helicopters and a -- and a reconnaissance aerial command post, which indicates there was some fighting.

This struck me as a desperation effort by Prigozhin to somehow keep the Wagner Group in operation. And I don't see it as a populous threat to Putin. I don't see it as cracking the aura of Putin's invincibility. Give the Russian people a little bit of credit.

HARLOW: Yes.

BOLTON: This war against Ukraine has been going on for 16 months.

HARLOW: Yes.

BOLTON: Do you think they think that Putin is infallible? I don't think so.

HARLOW: Earlier this month you told the Kyiv Post that Putin's political position, yes, had deteriorated since the invasion. But at that time you told them that you didn't think this regime was actually threatened.

Has your position on that changed given the events of the weekend?

BOLTON: Well, as I say, undeniably, his position has weakened but you have to ask who else is going to threaten it?

[07:45:01]

The Wagner Group is a sport. It was created to give deniability to Russian military operations overseas. The only reason Wagner Group forces are back in Ukraine is that -- is that regular Russian military forces have performed so poorly. It's not like they are other warlords out there. And let me be clear. Prigozhin is not a warlord. He's a mafioso and a terrorist to boot.

So this seems to me to be a kind of one-off. If there's a loose screw in this mix it's Prigozhin. It's not Putin.

HARLOW: OK. So on that point about why Prigozhin made the decision or the deal that he allegedly has made with the Kremlin to go in exile in Belarus, Sen. Marco Rubio, the top Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee tweeted essentially that would have to be because the two top military officials in Russia would be ousted. That would have had to be part of the deal for Prigozhin to agree to that.

Do you think so?

BOLTON: It is a possibility. It doesn't look like it. There have been reports -- underline the word reports -- this morning of pictures of Shoigu out with the troops. We don't know whether those pictures were taken before the events of the weekend or after.

HARLOW: Yes.

BOLTON: I think we need to see Putin in person. We need to see Gerasimov. We need to see Shoigu in person.

But don't underestimate the possibility Putin can turn this to his advantage. You know, it's part of the authoritarian leader playbook that when you face domestic crisis or instability you divert the people's attention by pointing to an external crisis. And they've got one --

HARLOW: Yes.

BOLTON: -- that's ongoing as we speak in Ukraine.

I think that's how he points to Prigozhin as a traitor and rallies the people behind the boys in the trenches facing the Ukrainian spring offensive -- which according, again, to reports within the past few hours, Ukrainian troops have crossed to the western bank of the Dnieper River around Kherson. Not clear whether it's a probe or a more serious operation. Not clear whether it was planned before this weekend or not. But that's the kind of thing to watch.

The critical area here now both for Ukraine and for Russia is not what Prigozhin's up to. The critical area is the battlefield.

HARLOW: And the counteroffensive and what this means for all of it.

Ambassador Bolton, thank you for getting up early. Appreciate your time.

BOLTON; Glad to do it.

HARLOW: Phil.

MATTINGLY: Well, we are continuing to follow all the latest developments out of Russia, but we're also paying attention to some other news, including this just in. Good news for renters. Rent falling for the first time in years. We'll tell you about how much coming up next. HARLOW: Plus, NASA researchers just entered their new home for the next year -- a habitat that will simulate life on Mars. We'll take you there next.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:52:03]

HARLOW: Well, this morning, incredibly disturbing new video out of Georgia shows neo-Nazi extremists waving swastika flags and displaying antisemitic propaganda outside a synagogue during worship services. This happened in Marietta. In another incident in Macon, Georgia, police arrested a Florida man for using obscene language and shouting into a bullhorn after he was warned not to.

Georgia officials are condemning all of this. Governor Brian Kemp says, quote, "There is absolutely no place for this hate and antisemitism in our state." And Sen. Raphael Warnock has tweeted "We must raise -- we must all raise our voices loudly against this vile hate."

MATTINGLY: And also this morning, a bit of encouraging news this morning for renters. Rent prices -- they are dropping for the first time in years after the U.S. median rent fell last month from May 2022.

Now, in May of this year, the national median asking rent was $1,739. That's down 0.5 percent from May last year. It is the first annual rent decline in at least three years. Rents have gradually come down from their peak in July of 2022 but they are still nearly 25 percent higher than they were in 2019.

HARLOW: OK, favorite story of the morning.

NASA begins preparing astronauts for life on Mars -- that's right -- not the moon but Mars -- by isolating four researchers in a new habitat here on Earth. This is part of a new mission.

They just actually closed the door and they'll spend the next 378 days isolated in the 1,700 square foot space called an analog in Texas designed to recreate what they might face on Mars. They are taking part in simulated activities and science work, eating like astronauts, and dealing with maintenance and equipment failures as they undergo strenuous psychological testing, as well as physical testing.

This mission will be followed by two more with different crews.

Would you do it?

MATTINGLY: I think it's -- do you remember the movie "Bio-Dome" with Pauly Shore?

HARLOW: Kind of.

MATTINGLY: It's great. Everybody is going to love this reference, by the way. This is going to go -- HARLOW: You're such a nerd.

MATTINGLY: It reminds me of that. No, I would never do that. It sounds terrible. But I respect those who do it --

HARLOW: I have -- yes.

MATTINGLY: -- on the grounds of science.

HARLOW: Yes, much respect to them.

MATTINGLY: OK, staying on serious and actually very, very important news, Russian state media says Yevgeny Prigozhin remains under investigation for inciting a quote "armed rebellion." What that could mean for the mercenary boss and what we know about his current whereabouts.

HARLOW: Before we go to break though, snow in Utah's mountains is turning pink and reddish. A natural phenomenon that is named Watermelon Snow. Experts say it's because of green algae bloom that thrives in the cold and colors the white snow into different hues. But don't worry, there are no health concerns for water quality and anyone who comes into contact with it.

And that is Harry Styles.

MATTINGLY: Look at that. Pop culture. How do creatures survive?

HARLOW: Day by day.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:58:56]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: It's too soon to tell exactly where this is going to go, and is suspect that this is a moving picture and we haven't seen the last act yet. But we can say this. First of all, what we've seen is extraordinary and I think you see cracks emerge that weren't there before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That was U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken yesterday.

Good morning, everyone. Phil Mattingly is by my side and I'm glad you are here because what a weekend it was.

MATTINGLY: What a weekend it was and how many unanswered questions?

HARLOW: Yes.

MATTINGLY: He makes a great point. There are cracks. It seems to be there are cracks --

HARLOW: Yes.

MATTINGLY: -- but what do those mean going forward?

HARLOW: And what is next for Russia, for Vladimir Putin, for the war in Ukraine? The Kremlin just put out new video of Vladimir Putin after a mercenary rebellion threatened to topple his regime, but it is unclear when this video was shot. We'll take you live to Moscow for the latest.

MATTINGLY: And the wife and mother of two passengers killed on the Titan submersible is speaking out. She's revealing the final moments she spent with them before the doomed expedition to see the Titanic shipwreck.

HARLOW: And a record-breaking blowout that caught all of my attention this weekend at the men's College World Series. The Florida Gators making history with 24 runs.

This hour of CNN THIS MORNING starts now.

[08:00:00]