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Ukrainian Foreign Minister States If Wagner Mercenary Group Rebellion in Russia Lasted 48 Hours Longer Then Situation in Ukraine Way May Have Changed Dramatically; Vladimir Putin Visible in Media after being Out of Sight During Wagner Mercenary Group Rebellion. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired June 27, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. It is the top of the hour. We're so glad you're with us. Phil Mattingly by my side. And it's striking to hear. It's one thing to read the words of a former president. It's another thing to hear it.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right. And you understand why our great reporting team that broke the original transcript then broke this. We are hearing from their sources how critical this was to the case that was brought against the president, former president, and we will have to see how this plays out going forward. But now you can hear exactly what he said --

HARLOW: Into his own words.

MATTINGLY: -- that is viewed by prosecutors as so damning.

HARLOW: That's right. We're talking about a CNN exclusive. The new audio recording of Donald Trump apparently showing off a secret Pentagon document with plans to attack Iran and admitting he did not declassify it.

MATTINGLY: Plus, we just heard from Vladimir Putin in a live speech. It comes right after Russia dropped charges against the Wagner mercenary group for its weekend rebellion. We'll also hear from Ukraine's foreign minister who just spoke with our Erin Burnett about that revole.

HARLOW: Also ahead, Bank of America's CEO will join us exclusively to weigh in on the economy and the chances of a recession. CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

And this is where we begin this hour. Major developments in Moscow this morning. Vladimir Putin making a live appearance just moments ago after Russia announced it was dropping charges against the Wagner mercenary group for its armed rebellion over the weekend. Vladimir Putin personally thanking Russian security forces for defending the country against the revolt.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): You defended the constitution, the lives, the security, and the freedom of our citizens. You saved our homeland from being shaken up in actual fact. You stopped a civil war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: That's still worth noting we don't know where the Wagner mercenary group's leader is. Yevgeny Prigozhin hasn't been seen since Saturday when he abruptly stopped that march on Moscow and supposedly struck a deal to go in exile in Belarus.

This morning the Kremlin is refusing to share any deals about that agreement and Putin's spokesman says he is unaware of Prigozhin's current whereabouts as well. Putin is giving Wagner mercenaries a choice -- join the Russian military, go home, or go to Belarus. The Russian Defense Ministry says the fighters are preparing to turn over their heavy equipment to Russian troops.

All the while, the Ukrainian military trying to take advantage of that chaos in Russia. Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says the counteroffensive is making advances in, quote, all directions along the front lines. Erin Burnett is in Kyiv right now. And Erin, you just spoke to Ukraine's foreign minister. What was the reaction to what unfolded this weekend? And what happens next?

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR, ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT: You know what's interesting, Phil, he basically admitted, Dmytro Kuleba, the foreign minister here, said that they were not aware of what was going to happy. U.S. intelligence was, but they were not aware. So they were taken by surprise. He says had there been 48 more hours in the rebellion, 48 more hours, that he thinks things would have dramatically changed here on the front line, that some of the panic we've heard from troops on the front lines that they reported seeing in Russian troops on Saturday would have escalated and spilled over. There is still a huge question, though, here as to what role the Wagner troops are going to play.

So I asked him specifically about what this means for Putin. Has Putin's grip on power changed? What is the Ukrainian intelligence assessment now? And here is what the foreign minister just said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: I want to start by the news that shocked so much of the world, the rebellion in Russia. Did you have any intelligence pointing to an insurrection like we saw?

DMYTRO KULEBA, UKRAINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: No, we did not have any specific information with kind of the timeline of possible implementation of Prigozhin's plans. But for us it has always been pretty obvious that it's just a matter of time when someone in Russia will dare to challenge Putin, because we saw how his power and authority is shrinking and how Russia is entering very difficult turbulence. So Prigozhin is just the first one who dared, but I have no doubt that others will follow one way or another. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: And you know what's interesting, Poppy and Phil, is he emphasized the significance of the fact that Putin backed down, that when he was directly challenged by Prigozhin, he spoke some -- Prigozhin is not dead. Prigozhin is out there, and that Putin backed down. So they think that's significant. They think he is just going to be the first, so they believe that there has been a real shift in power, that Putin is still the main center of power, he was clear about that, but that they do think that there has been a shift and a change.

And interestingly, at least in terms of what he is saying, they say that they have no idea where Prigozhin is so they don't know what's going to happen to the Wagner forces on the front lines here that have been so crucial in fighting the war.

[08:05:04]

HARLOW: That is such a key question this morning. Where is Yevgeny Prigozhin? Erin, fascinating interview. I'm sure we'll see all of it tonight on your show. But before you go, I think you also talked to him about concerns about the nuclear plant, right, in Zaporizhzhia. What did he tell you?

BURNETT: It's interesting because here the mayor of Kyiv was saying to me last night that they are not prepared for what would catastrophic radiation and a fallout if the power plant were attacked. The head of the intelligence agency here is saying that Putin has drafted and approved a plan to actually bomb, to attack the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, which is the largest in Europe, and of course would affect not just Ukraine and Russia but all of Europe.

And so I asked the foreign minister how real this plan is, whether they think it will actually happen. Here is that part.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: One big question out there remains the nuclear question, and, obviously, the Ukrainian intelligence chief says Putin has drafted and approved, those are his words, plans to attack the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, which as we know, is the largest in Europe. President Zelenskyy has also warned of such a possible attack recently. How real is this risk do you think?

DMYTRO KULEBA, UKRAINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: As long as Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant remains in the hands of Russia, the risk is real. The question I think Russia is struggling with is the problem of retribution, because, of course, they don't want to be blamed for causing another nuclear disaster. So I think they are struggling to find a way to perform it as a false flag operation or as something else that would not be directly attributable to them. And this is why it gets so important, and I want really to take the opportunity of this conversation to really call a spade a spade, because what international media did with the explosion at the Kakhovka dam when they cast doubt about like who did it, that is exactly what Russia is looking for, to cast doubt and throw shadow. We have to be very, very clear with that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: And Minister Kuleba also said, and you all may find this interest, about Putin using tactical nuclear weapons, which of course President Zelenskyy recently, there has been that concern as well. He said Putin loves life, but those around him love life even more. And that's why Minister Kuleba thinks that still, in his mind, that it is those around Putin who would actually ultimately refuse to make that move that is so significant.

And I should say before I go, Phil and Poppy, he did talk about F-16s, and right now you have got Ukrainian pilots being trained, and he believes that those deliveries will come at the beginning of next year in terms of the F-16s, but there are active f-16s trainings going on for Ukrainian pilots now.

HARLOW: That's really interesting because they have been asking the west for that for a long time. Erin, fascinating interview. We can't wait to see the whole thing. Thank you for joining us live from Kyiv.

BURNETT: Thanks, guys.

MATTINGLY: Can't wait to see the full interview later tonight.

Right now you're looking at President Vladimir Putin speaking again, his second public appearance over the course of this day. Keep in mind, we didn't see him much at all, most people didn't even know where he was over the course of this weekend when the biggest threat to his power and his reign in 23 years was taking place. Now he seems to be everywhere, to some degree, which I think it kind of P.R. 101 type of deal. You don't often necessarily see a dictator or authoritarian respond to, which is why I want to bring the panel in now, CNN senior global affairs analyst Bianna Golodryga, CNN national security analyst and former CIA of Russia operations Steve Hall, and CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller.

Bianna, I want to start with you, because throughout the course of this weekend, and my conversations with U.S. officials, our reporting as well over the course of the weekend, we're trying to figure out where is Vladimir Putin, had he gone to Saint Petersburg? What's his role here? Why isn't he saying anything at all? Now he is everywhere thanking his forces for whatever it was they did this weekend, which didn't seem to be a lot. Why?

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SECURITY GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Listen, I think whatever happened over the last 48 to 72 hours really shook him up. This was clearly something he didn't see coming, though he should have. U.S. intelligence saw that. Ukrainian intelligence likely had an indication this was happening.

And let's be frank. You had Yevgeny Prigozhin really being public on his social media platforms talking about the need to replace the defense minister in Russia and the head of war in Russia. Not Putin himself, who to this day he says was not his aim, a coup was not his aim. His aim was to go to Moscow and have a conversation with Vladimir Putin about what needed to happen to continue this war in the right direction.

[08:10:00]

Now, Vladimir Putin, no one even knows if he remained in Moscow as this took place. And this was one of those scenarios where I believe Prigozhin realized that he had one of two options, go to Moscow and be killed, or perhaps try to negotiate, which is what appears to have been what they did.

Vladimir Putin remains in power, but I would argue he is weakened. And if you want to compare past attempted coups or mutinies with authoritarian leaders, take a look at what happened in Turkey in 2016 and compare and contrast how Erdogan responded to that. He was on the airwaves the entire time and immediately clamped down on any opposition, including journalists who were covering the war.

So this is strikingly different. We know Vladimir Putin is a procrastinator and waits to make these hard decisions until the last minute. I don't know what he thinks he gained by waiting 48 hours to speak to the public. I don't think that Prigozhin had an ultimate plan and that's why this seemed to fade a bit. But this conflict is not over.

HARLOW: Steve, given your experience running CIA ops in Russia, I thought it was notable when what Minister Kuleba told Erin that there has been in the Ukrainian's view a real shift in power of Vladimir Putin. Two of the biggest newspapers, right, "Washington Post," "Putin works to reassert control," headline this morning, "New York Times," "An angry Putin asserts Russians are still united." Someone fighting to hang on to that power?

STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Again, yes, it looks like there is a lot of damage control going on here. But it's really interesting, and I think Bianna makes a good point, dictators usually don't have to do this. This is something that we're used to seeing in western leaders, right? There's some big flap someplace and everybody takes to the airwaves and starts getting the newspapers to get the word out. Putin certainly has those capabilities. He certainly controls the press which means that 90 percent of the Russian population are going to hear what he wants them to hear.

But again, to have him in a position where he's got to say, OK, what do I need to say to keep the people that I want in place? And those are two groups. There's the domestic folks, normal Russians, who, again, six months ago he didn't have to worry about. He could simply count on his security services, the secret police, to repress them. That didn't work really well against the Wagner guys. So there is a question about that.

And then of course there is his inner circle. And if anybody's going to cause significant change quickly, it's going to be them. But the murkiness that we see, the 48 hours of not knowing exactly where Prigozhin is -- yes, he is convicted or he's going to be tried. No, he is not. That back and forth stuff I think shows some looseness in the regime, some questions inside the regime. We can't see exactly what they are because it's so Byzantine inside the Kremlin, but there is a lot of sort of slack that you didn't see before.

MATTINGLY: John Miller, you worked at ODNI in a past life. This has to be an incredibly complex situation for U.S. intelligence to try and divine what's actually happening. Take us behind the scenes. What are they trying to do right now?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So when I worked in the DNI, we worked in the analysis division that was in charge of preparing the presidents' daily briefing. So imagine preparing that briefing today. First of all, you're going to be asked to deliver answers that there are no answers for. So you're going to have to deliver analyst, which is how much damage has Putin suffered from this? Is there an actual tear in the fabric of the power of Putin's regime? And then harder questions, which is, what was Prigozhin thinking as he was running a convoy towards Moscow seemingly for a large stretch without intervention from the Russian military, with the police blocking streets so the motorcade could get through with cheering crowds? Did he think that there was someone on the other end in Moscow that was going to back that play?

Now, in Putin's version of the president's daily briefing, he is asking those same questions. Does he have someone on the inside? Was there going to be help? Who can I trust? That means his circle is going to get smaller. And taking Bianna's example of the attempted coups in Turkey, of which there were two, 51 generals were sentenced it to life in prison, thousands of people were fired and pushed out of the army. Putin either has to figure out who failed on the military side, who failed on the intelligence side in terms it of indicators and warning. And even if he can't figure it out, he still has to figure out who is going to pay for this, because if I don't take action, if I don't rotate the generals, if I don't fire people, I am going to continue to look weaker and weaker. So there is a real scramble going on in the White House to understand this and in the Kremlin to figure out what to do about it.

MATTINGLY: Yes, it underscores this dynamic and has a lot more chapters of this book to play out. Guys, thank you very much, Steve Hall, Bianna Golodryga, appreciate. John Miller, I'm not letting you loose yet. You are sticking around for a little bit more.

HARLOW: We have a lot more to talk about. Former President Donald Trump on audiotape discussing those secrets documents that he admits he didn't declassify. We're going to play that for you, the first time we're going to hear it, right, we just got this last night. Break down what prosecutors may be zeroing in on.

[08:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: A first on CNN, that newly obtained audio of Former President Donald Trump discussing classified documents at his Bedminster, New Jersey Golf Club in 2021. Now, it happened in an interview with people working on the memoir of Former Trump Chief of Staff Mark Meadows. Special Counsel's indictment alleges that Trump shared classified information with those in attendance about a plan to attack Ron. CNN Senior Legal Analyst Elie Honig is with us right now. Ellie, we're going to start by playing the tape for you in its entirety, but we'll pause at key moments. We're going to have your kind of breakdown from your perspective, your expertise, what it actually means for the prosecution's case. Let's start with this.

(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: These are bad sick people, but --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was -- that was your coup, you know, that against you.

TRUMP: Well, it started right at the --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like when Milley is talking about, "oh, you were going to try to do coup." No, they were trying to do that before you even were sworn in.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trying to overthrow your election.

TRUMP: Well, with Milley, let me see that. I'll show you an example. He said that I wanted to attack Iran. Isn't it amazing? I have a big pile of papers; this thing just came up. Look, this was him. They presented me this is off the record, but they presented me this. This was him. This was the Defense Department and Him. We looked at some. This was him. This wasn't done by me, this was him. All sorts of stuff, pages long, look. Wait a minute, let's see here.

[08:20:07]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

TRUMP: I just found, isn't that amazing? This totally wins my case, you know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE Mm-hmm.

TRUMP: Except it is like, highly confidential --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

TRUMP: -- secret. This is secret information. But look at this.

(END AUDIOTAPE)

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: If you had to boil this entire case down to two simple sentences, this would be it. This is secret information, look at this. And if we break it down one at a time, look at this. This tells me as a prosecutor, he's showing them something. You can hear them reacting to it, you can hear papers rustling. So, he's sharing this information with them. Now, we don't know exactly whether there's an actual classified document, it certainly sounds like if we don't know if DOJ has this. But either way, the key point is, this is secret information. This shows Donald Trump has knows they have this information, has seen it, knows that it's sensitive, and he's sharing it with other people. Those are crucial points for the prosecution to make.

MATTINGLY: Crucial points there. Now, let's listen to this.

(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)

TRUMP: You attack, and --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hillary would print that out all the time, you know.

TRUMP: She'd send it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her private emails.

TRUMP: No, she'd send it to Anthony Weiner. The pervert.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please print.

TRUMP: By the way, isn't that incredible?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

TRUMP: I was just thinking, because we we're talking about it. And, you know, he said he wanted to attack Iran, and what -- these are the papers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You did.

TRUMP: This was done by the military and given to me.

(END AUDIOTAPE)

HONIG: Well, so much for the claim that this was just golf shirts and love letters. This shows Donald Trump knew, this was done by the military, and given to him, that is so crucial here. And one thing to keep in mind, it doesn't technically matter for the charges that have been made in this case, whether it was classified or declassified. The law here relates to sensitive defense information. And here he's saying, this is a document created by the military, earlier he said it relates to attack plans for Iran. And so, that gives you that element, this is almost the definition of sensitive defense information.

MATTINGLY: So, classification is a necessity. But listen to this.

(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)

TRUMP: I think we can probably, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know. We'll have to see. Yes. We'll have to try to --

TRUMP: Declassify it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- figure out. Yes.

TRUMP: See, as President I could have declassified it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

TRUMP: Now, I can't, you know, but this is still a secret.

(END AUDIOTAPE)

HONIG: This puts the lie to Donald Trump's campaign of public defenses. How many times have we heard him say, I automatically declassified, I declassified through mental thought, nothing that I had here was sensitive. Here is acknowledging correctly, as President I could have declassified it, now I can't. That's an admission that he did not declassify it then, that it remained classified as of the moment of this recording in July of 2021.

And more to the point, he's sharing it, he's disseminating this information with others. This is going to be a key point for prosecutors, because they'll argue to the jury, this is what he was doing with this. He's showing and sharing this information to people who have no security clearance. He's doing it for his own political benefit. He wasn't just keeping this information in boxes, not a good idea, potentially illegal to do that. What he's distributing it out in the world carelessly, recklessly and dangerously.

MATTINGLY: And a final piece to listen to.

(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)

TRUMP: Isn't that interesting?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

TRUMP: It's so cool. I mean, it's so, look, her and I -- And you probably almost didn't believe me, but now you believe me.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No, I believed you.

TRUMP: It's incredible, right?

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No, they never met a war they didn't want.

TRUMP: Hey, bring some -- bring some Cokes in please.

(END AUDIOTAPE)

HONIG: OK, bring some Cokes in, please. You may be wondering, what's the relevance? Kind of yes, a little bit.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

HONIG: I'll give you two things that I would argue first of all, there's an overall tone of sort of casualness about this. They're thrown around state secrets and Donald Trump is taking it sort of very lightly. The other thing to keep in mind, they are witnesses. Everyone you hear on that tape reacting to Donald Trump is, in my mind, a potential witness for the prosecution people you're going to hear called at trial.

And the question is going to be, tell us what was happening in that room? We can hear it. What did he show you? What did you see? Also, who's he talking to here? We don't know. Could be Walt Nauta? The co- defendant was appearing in court later tonight. If so, then, you know Walt Nauta was in that room, and knew how sensitive these documents were.

MATTINGLY: Poppy, Ellie was able to take a piece that I thought was just kind of a funny end to the tape and find a legal element but.

HONIG: I can always take the fun one out of it.

HARLOW: Leave it to Ellie -- leave it to Ellie, thank you. Come on, come over here. Let's talk about this. Let's also bring in our Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller. OK, John, that was so helpful, I think to go through it and dissect what's important about this. Can you speak to why this particular document, by the way about a potential attack on Iran is so crucial.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Two reasons. One, as Elie pointed out, he's not charged with disseminating classified information. He's charged with illegally possessing information about the National Defense. That there's a lot of documents that were found and they're about a lot of different things, but if you were going to have one recorded on tape, where he's talking about possessing it and showing it to people without clearances.

A contingency plan developed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff to attack Iran. If it came to that, because of some circumstance is about as purely National Defense information as you can get. It's not an analysis of the political economic situation in Moldova. It's a document about the U.S. defense and leaking that information, sharing that information.

[08:25:24]

HARLOW: Joking about it.

MILLER: Joking about it. Giving it to someone who might put it in a book discussing the idea of, can we hand this document over in the loose lips sink ships department. Once your attack plan is out, your attack plan is vulnerable. So, I think that it has outsized significance, then what if it was any other classified document?

HARLOW: Yes.

HONIG: And the whole defense that we've heard from Trump over and over this was golf clothes and letters from other world leaders is such a nothing to me. It's such a meaningless defense because no one cares about that stuff. Fine, that's not a problem, that's not what you're charged for. You're charged with this document, which he plainly was very aware of and willing to use. MATTINGLY: Can I ask you -- like along those lines, that's the former

President's defense on truth, social or in interviews with Fox, we haven't necessarily heard his lawyers lay out their defensive of the case yet, which is understandable. So many times, over the course of the last six or seven years, something has happened, everybody goes to jail or indictment or whatever. The indictment has happened here. What's his legal team looking at right now? How do they defend against that and the case?

HONIG: So, I think there's a really important point here, Donald Trump does not have to state his legal defense to us. He does not have to state it publicly. He has a right to make a defense. He has good, talented, smart lawyers, I used to work with Todd Blanche, he's very good. There will be a defense, we don't know what it is yet. They have the right to take some time to go through the discovery, which they're just now getting. And figure out what they want their defense to be.

So, I always kind of reject the dismissive statement of oh, they're just throwing stuff against the wall and seeing what sticks. I mean, that is the job of a defense lawyer figure out what may work and what may not. But I do want to say this, every public statement Donald Trump makes is usable against him in court before the indictment, after the indictment. And you box your legal team in, when you say things that are inconsistent with the evidence and are contradictory. That's really damaging.

HARLOW: Yes. And every interview he does. This is a huge focus. Elie, thank you very much. John Miller, we appreciate it. Also, this ahead, the economy, right? We're still adding jobs, we're seeing inflation improve a bit. Are we even going to have a recession? Bank of America CEO, Brian Moynihan joins us live in studio ahead.

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