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Audio Released of Former President Trump Admitting He Possesses Classified Documents; Special Counsel Jack Smith to Interview Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger about Former President Trump's Election Interference; Russian Missile Kills at Least 10 in Kramatorsk, Ukraine. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired June 28, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No sleep. It's certainly been a test of patience.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not OK because people have plans for vacations for, like, a long time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Real travel nightmares for so many people. Real tears, frustration, people stuck for days in airports this week.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And all you think about is having kids or family members trying to go see family members. Very, very real issue.

HARLOW: It is.

We're glad you are with us for this hour of CNN THIS MORNING. And this is where we begin, travel chaos growing at airports across the country, wave after wave of flight cancellations and delays, stranded travelers right before the busy July 4th holiday weekend. Ground stops in Boston and New York adding to the misery. We'll take a look at what is causing all of this.

MATTINGLY: Plus, Donald Trump has a new explanation after CNN obtained audio of him apparently showing off his secret Pentagon document and admitting it was still classified. Special Counsel Jack Smith is about to interview a crucial witness in a different probe of the former president.

HARLOW: And the Canadian wildfire smoke back in the United States. Chicago and the Midwest blanketed this morning. Tens of millions of Americans under air quality alerts.

This hour of CNN THIS MORNING starts now.

Here's where we begin this morning, with major developments in one of several investigations facing former President Trump. There are new signs that federal prosecutors are near charging decisions in the 2020 election interference probe. Hours from now, Special Counsel Jack Smith's team will speak with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger. This is their first time speaking to him. He, of course, is a Republican who pushed back when Trump famously demanded this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: So, look, all I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: We also have exclusive new CNN reporting that federal investigators have interviewed Rudy Giuliani as part of that investigation. Multiple sources tell CNN that meeting took place in recent weeks but declined to say what specifically investigators focused on in that interview. That comes as there are also new developments in the classified documents case. President Trump now responding to that audio recording first obtained by CNN, a tape where he says, quote, "This is secret information. Look at this." Hear the shuffling of the paper. The former president now saying it was just bravado and that he did nothing wrong.

HARLOW: Let's talk about all of these developments, because there are a lot in different probes, with CNN senior legal analyst, former federal prosecutor Elie Honig. Elie, good morning. Let's start with the special counsel's probe into the January 6th investigation. Not Mar-a-Lago documents, but January 6th.

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So important to keep in mind, right. With all the focus on Mar-a-Lago, Jack Smith has a whole issue to deal with, which is the January 6th investigation. A couple of really interesting and important developments. We learned that Jack Smith has spoken with Rudy Giuliani who, of course, was right in the center of it all. We remember, he stood in front of that crowd at the Ellipse. He exhorted them to trial by combat. He was part of the fake electors scheme. So really interesting that DOJ has now spoken with him.

My question is, how do they see him? Is he a target? Usually you speak to someone like that informally if they were a target. Is he a witness? Is he just someone they want to talk to, do their due diligence, and lock him in. We also are learning that later today Jack Smith will be speaking with Brad Raffensperger. Of course, he was on the receiving end of that infamous phone call from Donald Trump on January 2nd last year, just want you to find 11,780 votes. My question for DOJ is what took so long? Brad Raffensperger --

HARLOW: Wouldn't you keep maybe one of your biggest witness for the end as you've gathered a lot of information, no?

HONIG: No, not investigatively. you want to get to people as soon as possible. Maybe for trial if you are trying to be strategic. But he testified publicly a year ago in the January 6th committee. He has spoken to Fani Willis. So DOJ is getting to him now. [08:05:00]

All that said, DOJ has gotten into the highest echelons of power. We know that they have spoken with Mike Pence, Mark Meadows, Cassidy Hutchinson, Pat Cipollone, and others. So it does look to me, Pop, like they are rounding out their investigation and moving towards the moment of thumbs up/thumbs down charging.

HARLOW: What about Mar-a-Lago and the developments we've learned there on those documents?

HONIG: Of course, the big news is the audiotape that CNN has exclusively obtained where Donald Trump is talking about these documents to people at Bedminster. The key quote to me is, here's what he says, two sentences, the whole case. This is secret information. Look at this. Really hard to square his new defenses. This was golf club plans or I was bluffing with look at this. Look at what?

The other big development, Walt Nauta, where in the world is Walt Nauta? He is the other guy in the investigation. They've now tried to arraign him twice. The first time he showed without a lawyer who was admitted to that court. Yesterday he had a travel issue, as a lot of people are, was unable to show up. So they're going to get around to arraigning Walt Nauta when we look ahead next week, July 6th. The big question is, will Walt Nauta flip? He certainly hasn't yet. I don't know how likely it is that he ever will. I don't know that he has the right incentive to do that.

The next court appearance for the lawyers, not Donald Trump, is going to be July 14th. They're going to talk about discovery, turning over the information. And then DOJ, interestingly, the judge initially set the trial date for August. That was a placeholder. DOJ is now saying we'd like trial in December, only six months from now.

HARLOW: And what about the state investigations?

HONIG: These two are rolling on, too. Let's not forget what's happening at the state. Of course, Donald Trump has been indicted by the Manhattan D.A. They have a trial date set for March into April of 2024, and the Fulton County D.A., Fani Willis, has told us all be on high alert August into September. That's when the next grand jury comes in, and I think we will hear in all likelihood that she is indicting, too, later this summer. A lot going on.

HARLOW: Thank you for walking through it with us. Phil?

MATTINGLY: We want to bring in the panel, bring you guys back over here. Alyssa Farah Griffin and Astead Herndon are still with you. And I want to start with kind of the shifting explanations from the former president. He did a print interview with Shelby Talcott over at Semafor saying that this was, in part, bravado, right. He was just kind of talking to some degree. But he also said this to FOX News. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: The voice was fine. What did I say wrong in those recordings? I didn't even see the recording. All I know is I did nothing wrong. We had a lot of papers, a lot of papers stacked up. In fact, you could hear the rustle of the paper, and nobody said I did anything wrong, other than the fake news, which of course is FOX, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This is a disaster for the president. If you are his the legal team, you must be losing sleep over it. I cannot think, to Elie's point just now, anything really more definitive admitting to what he did here. So regardless of if he flashed the papers, he acknowledged the existence of the classified information, talked about the contents of it to people who do not have the security clearances necessary.

And I would note the most significant, the highest level of classification is usually reserved for things like war plans, and that's precisely because if the Iranian government knew where we might be striking, that could put any U.S. troops at risk, any of our assets in the field who help prepare that. We know that they have targeted Americans on our soil. So this is -- I mean, this violates the most basic protocols you would follow for protecting classified information. If an average citizen did this, they would be in jail probably for 10 years.

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: What sticks up to me from that is just the scope of challenges he is under now. As we keep getting new pieces of information it not only encloses that circle around him, but I think really puts him in a kind of personal vice. He seems like a candidate who is feeling pressure, frankly. When I hear that bravado statement, it sounds very un-Donald Trump, right, to even acknowledge some of those things.

So I think the reality of even some form of accountability, it may not be changing his poll numbers. It may not have made him less likely to be a Republican anonymous. Does that seem to be weighing on him as a person and now expressing the Trump bravado in the way that we kind of expected. But I think that just speaks to the reality of these legal challenges enclosing on him, to even a point where people who follow it, like me, closely, even when -- and Elie takes us through that step by step, I feel like I am even taking back by the breadth of what he is under right now.

HONIG: And there is a vulnerability in the daily, sometimes contradictory defenses and explanations. Good rule of thumb for being a criminal defendant, maybe for life -- one excuse, just offer one excuse. When you start offering multiple excuses, it looks desperate and they are not going to jibe with one another.

HARLOW: In terms of the two federal probes that Jack Smith is spearheading here, Mar-a-Lago documents where the former president has been indicted versus January 6th which we don't know which way that's going to go, which is more difficult for Jack Smith to successfully prosecute? HONIG: January 6th is more difficult by far. I think the stakes are

higher. But if you look at Mar-a-Lago, it's almost like just a point and click. It's like, here is the law. Here are the facts. Here is the evidence. It just matches up. It's black and white. It's what prosecutors love.

[08:10:08]

January 6th is going to be difficult if he charges it to get a conviction. I'm not saying it's impossible, but you're getting into difficult issues of intent. First Amendment is what Donald Trump did, protected political speech. So that to me is one of the most important questions we need to watch in the coming weeks. Is Jack Smith going to be willing to take that leap? And if so, will Merrick Garland back him up, which is necessary for a charge?

MATTINGLY: Astead, real quick, before we have to go, going back to your point, does the weight of everything that's on the former president right now eventually have a political effect?

HERNDON: It certainly has one in the general election. Every objective number tells us we should not overdo this, right. Most Americans think that getting criminally indicted is a bad thing for Donald Trump. It has made him toxic with independents, made him toxic with swing voters. It has made the Republican path to winning those people back look really difficult. But it is the short-term question that has not really kind of shifted for him.

And so that's the kind of dual premise he is under here. But we know that it is having an effect and is the reason that he might be the only type of Republican who would lose to a Joe Biden even if Joe Biden might be the only type of Democrat who Donald Trump could beat, too.

MATTINGLY: It's almost as if Kevin McCarthy had a good point before he walked back --

(LAUGHTER)

HERNDON: Exactly.

MATTINGLY: Alyssa, thanks so much. Elie, Astead, you guys stick around.

HARLOW: New overnight, the death toll rising in a major city in eastern Ukraine. At least 10 people are dead this morning, at least 61 injured. This is after a Russian missile hit the center of Kramatorsk in a populated area packed with civilians. Three of those victims are children, including these 14-year-old twin sisters. Our Ben Wedeman joins us live in eastern Ukraine. Ben, a very important reminder of civilians being targeted again and again.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Poppy. We are in front of this restaurant. In fact, I can tell you, the day before yesterday, we were having lunch here, the CNN crew. And it was very popular with civilians, with soldiers. In fact, the restaurant expanded over the last few months because so many people have returned to Kramatorsk, and also because Kramatorsk is an important military hub for the war effort. The front is only about 30 miles from here. In fact, you can hear perhaps the siren is going off yet again.

But what we've learned is that the missile that hit this location was an Iskander, which is a hypersonic ballistic missile which is very difficult for radar to detect, let alone for air defenses to take down. As you mentioned, of course, 10 people so far were killed in this strike, among them, a 17-year-old girl and twin 14-year-old sisters. More than 60 injured, one of them an eight-month-old baby. We spoke to some of the rescue workers who are still digging in the ruins. They told us that believe there are probably still more bodies inside, but it's very unlikely there are still survivors under the rubble. Poppy?

HARLOW: Ben Wedeman, thank you for the reporting from eastern Ukraine.

MATTINGLY: Also happening today, President Biden set to deliver a speech on his economic plan as he pushes for what his team called Biden-omics, how it works, what it means for the American people. The White House budget director joins us next.

HARLOW: Plus, a live look at Chicago as haze from those Canadian wildfires is blanketing portions of the country again. How long will this last?

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So, we're changing. We decided to replace this theory with what the press is now calling Bidenomics. I don't know what the hell that is. But it's working. Let me tell you what it's about. It's about building an economy, literally, not figuratively. From the bottom up and the middle out, not the top down.

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MATTINGLY: That's President Biden they're joking about Bidenomics, a term that's now at the heart of his economic message. The President today what his -- will deliver what it seems -- calling it a cornerstone major speech on Bidenomics, branding the economy with Biden's name. It's not without political risk, but the White House believes that focusing on the economy will help him win a second term. They also believe that they have a message to deliver despite high inflation and rising interest rates.

Joining us now to talk about that message, White House Budget Director Shalanda Young. Director Young, thanks so much for joining us from the North Lawn. I want to start with what the President was kind of joking about the idea of, you know, what is -- what is Bidenomics? I've covered you guys pretty closely on the economic side over the course of the last two plus years. There are a lot of numbers you can point to that tell a story of success. That is not a story that has necessarily been received by the American people, why?

SHALANDA YOUNG, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET: So, Phil, this isn't new. You're right, you've heard a lot of this before. When the President talks about stopping banks, apartments, concerts, promoters from charging hidden fees to the customers. When he says to people like my grandmother, you can buy hearing aids over the counters for hundreds of dollars instead of thousands through your insurance.

That's Bidenomics, growing the middle class in this country. That's where our strength is. We tried trickle down, we tried top down. Guess what? It didn't reach regular folks. So, this President, everything we've done, the three budgets I've worked with to help him put out, it is a core tenet, grow the middle class, middle out, bottom up. That's how we approach the economy and it's working, over 30 million jobs at it.

MATTINGLY: You know, to -- you -- the -- what you were pointing out, I think gets an interesting point. I think Greg of the Wall Street Journal had an interesting piece this morning, which says the effects on voter's lives are small and gradual. Whereas the effects of inflation and unemployment are more significant, more tangible to some degree. Your unemployment rate is one, any President would want to talk about often. Inflation has clearly decelerated over the last several months on a consistent basis. But if you look at the latest CNN poll about how the President is handling the economy, 34 percent approve. Current economic conditions 24 percent say good. Is there a concern that those bigger macro issues are crowding out? What you're talking about that you think matters to regular people?

YOUNG: So, Phil, on inflation, you say a number of months it's come down. As a reminder, 11 months of deceleration. We're moving in the right direction, more than moving in the right direction. We have more to do always to bring down costs. But that's why we worked so hard with Democrats in Congress to pass Inflation Reduction Act. Those individual pieces are absolutely positive. You ask Americans, should we rebuild our infrastructure? Absolutely.

[08:20:17]

This President worked with Republicans to get that done. Do something about energy costs in this country. Do something about prescription drug costs in this country. This President worked with Democrats to get something done on that. And look, you know this, it takes a while to implement these landmark pieces of legislation. That is what we're focused on for the next two years. And my agency across the administration, implement, implement, implement. Get these dollars into communities to not only rebuild, but to make sure we bring manufacturing back to this country, which we've already added 800,000 jobs, and have good paying jobs for Americans.

MATTINGLY: That's a good point, though. Because I remember the scale the legislative accomplishments in the first two years don't have much precedent in the last several decades, if any at all. And yet, at the midterm elections, the President will be on the campaign trail talking about, you know, people just haven't felt it yet, right? On prescription drugs, it hadn't taken effect yet. Infrastructure project is still rolling out, CHIPS act, same type of deal. The first Cabinet meeting you had of 2023, you were sitting there, where he's talking about, we have to implement, we have to show people what this actually is. Why aren't people feel -- like, you've been doing that, you've had projects rolling out, you had $40 billion in broadband coming out yesterday. Why is it not connecting?

YOUNG: Look, Phil, what I will say is what people feel immediately. If you were sitting in 2020, and you are in a town like the one I grew up in, in South Louisiana, and you without a job. Not knowing when this pandemic would end. Announcing the progress, you needed from your government to get us back working. And you did not know what was going to happen to your family. And you're one of those 13 million who got a job. You've seen wages go up in this country, you have felt that immediately, that is a game changer in your family.

Now, what we're going to see over the next two years, you're right, we're going to see drug costs come down when the government implements this bill the President worked on. We're going to see more infrastructure projects were come out. So, you've seen announcements but look, this week, we just announced the broadband program $42 billion to get Americans hook. Internet is not a luxury, isn't a necessity. Try having school-aged kids, they'll tell you they need it for school. So, we just announced that those kinds of things are starting to get into the bloodstream. And we're going to work as hard as we can to make sure it gets to all Americans, not just a few in this country.

MATTINGLY: I'm going to ask you a political question, which I know you don't really play in that ballgame much to the policy. You'd walk over on (INAUDIBLE) You would walk from the House Appropriations Committee to some degree. But I do think it's an important point in the sense of making Bidenomics, making the economy a cornerstone as the President starts to really fully engage in his reelection campaign. There's risk there, right?

You have defied every projection of economists over the course of the last several months. I don't think anybody can deny that. But Brian Moynihan, the Bank of America CEO, told my colleague Poppy Harlow yesterday, expect some mild recession at the start of next year. Is there a risk -- when you look at the economy of pinning too much to this -- what you think is a good story, something that's having an effect, given the economy, isn't necessarily always predictable?

YOUNG: Look, Phil, I love being called a Wonka budget nerd, that's what I do. I'm not on the political side. But I am on the economics team. We're the little underdog that could. This President is always undervalue. He came in, got the pandemic under control, and that was not by accident in what he did. And you wouldn't see the 13 million people back at work. And unemployment numbers, as you pointed out, most Presidents would have loved to have and the legislative accomplishments that this President has overseen in my 20 years, I've never seen before. So, we'll put that record against anyone. And we'll continue to be undervalued. And we'll continue to overperform. MATTINGLY: But I know -- I know you're not at the CEA, but you have breakfast, usually with the leaders at least once a week or twice a week or at least used to. Do you see a mild recession as possible at the first part of next year?

YOUNG: Not when you see jobs numbers like this. Not when you see wage growth like this. That is just not consistent with a recession. You know, for two years, I've been asked the same question or told prognosticators say a recession is coming. And we continue to see a strong labor market in this country. And so, we continue to point out that we have never been in a recession. With a job market, with labor statistics like we've seen. And those two things just don't go together.

MATTINGLY: All right, OMB Director Shalanda Young, as always, appreciate your time.

YOUNG: Thanks, Phil.

[08:25:07]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Really interesting to see that the White House doesn't see a recession coming and most of the bankers do.

MATTINGLY: Yes, no, I mean, I think it's the open question, right? I think to the White House credit to some degree say, well, most bankers have been calling for a recession for the better part of the last year and they've been wrong throughout. I think that's why they feel more confident that kind of the soft-landing idea is plausible. But we'll have to see.

HARLOW: Oh, I like having two wonks together at breakfast time.

MATTINGLY: I mean, like, all three of us, we just all just hang out and talk policy.

HARLOW: Speak for yourself. That was a great interview. All right, just in the CNN, Donald Trump has filed the counter defamation suit against E. Jean Carroll, what he's claiming. Ahead.

MATTINGLY: And happening this morning Daniel Penny, set to be arraigned in the New York City subway chokehold death of Jordan Neely. Details coming up.

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HARLOW: Well, new this morning, Donald Trump is countersuing E. Jean Carroll. His claim is also for defamation. This is after a jury recently found that he sexually abused, defamed the columnist and defamed her. Trump now says Carroll defamed him when she appeared on CNN the morning after the jury awarded her five --

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