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CNN This Morning
Supreme Court Ends College Affirmative Action; Former Trump Campaign Official Is Cooperating With Special Counsel In 2020 Election Interference Probe; Man Arrested With Weapons Near Obama's D.C. Home; TSA Officials Expect Today To be Busiest Travel Day Of Record July 4th Weekend. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired June 30, 2023 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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MALEA TRIBBLE, ENCOUNTERED SHARK: I saw my husband's face drop, and I saw him tell the captain to shut off the engine and him, then, guided me to the boat.
[06:00:00]
And so, as soon as he did that, I knew it was a shark.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: She was able to get out of the water. She got into the boat, but she didn't let the shark stop her. After a 10-minute break, she got back on her board and paddled on all the way to Florida, for a very good cause.
All right, thanks for joining me. I'm Christine Romans. Have a great weekend, everybody. "CNN THIS MORNING" starts right now.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Well, good morning, everyone. It is Friday. We are glad you are with us. What a day in America yesterday, and the landscape has certainly change.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: What we're talking about before the show. The scale of the changes over the course of the last year and a half --
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HARLOW: Yes.
MATTINGLY: -- two years are dramatic. No matter what side you're on.
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HARLOW: That's right.
MATTINGLY: You have to acknowledge this is a very different moment than it was just a couple of years in the country.
HARLOW: And absolutely is all because of the High Court, we'll get to that in a moment. But let's start this morning with five things to know for this Friday, June 30th.
The Supreme Court guts. Affirmative action in higher education, prompting protests and questions over what comes next. And more crucial rulings are expected in just hours, centering on LGBTQ rights and student loans.
MATTINGLY: Also, this morning, big developments in two federal investigations of Donald Trump. In the January 6th case, a former official with his campaign is cooperating with prosecutors.
Now, this comes as we learn the Special Counsel is not done investigating the former president's handling of classified documents.
HARLOW: A man wanted on charges related to January 6th, was arrested near former President Obama's D.C. home. Officials, say the man had multiple guns and materials to make explosives.
MATTINGLY: And violent protests erupt across France overnight after the fatal police shooting of a 17-year-old. Hundreds of arrests have been made across the country.
HARLOW: The Fourth of July travel surge officially here. The TSA says today will be the busiest yet for airports with more than 2.8 million passengers expected to take off for the holiday.
CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.
Well, as Phil just said this morning, we are waking up in a very different America. A post affirmative action America after the Supreme Court declared race cannot be an express factor in college admissions in a historic ruling.
This up ends 50 years of jurisprudence, and marks a huge and immediate shift for students. The class entering college this fall will be the last affirmative action class.
It's just the latest sweeping change ushered in by a conservative super majority court over the past year and a half. It was this time last year when that same court overturned Roe versus Wade. And now, one year later, 14 states ban most abortions.
MATTINGLY: It was also expanding gun rights last year in the court issued a major decision on the meaning of the Second Amendment. Saying that the constitutional right to "keep and bear arms" allows owners to carry firearms in public. That, of course, led to a string of challenges to federal and state gun laws.
Now, with the affirmative action decision, President Biden is once again vowing to push back. And this is what he's saying about that supermajority of court.
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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We should never allow the country to walk away from the dream upon which it was founded.
Discrimination still exists in America. Discrimination still exists in America. Today's decision does not change that.
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: President Biden, the Congressional Black Caucus said the Supreme Court has thrown into question its own legitimacy. Is this a rogue court?
BIDEN: This is not a normal court.
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MATTINGLY: Now, CNN's Arlette Saenz, who asked that question that the president answered.
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HARLOW: Yes.
MATTINGLY: We want to get to CNN justice correspondent Jessica Schneider joins us live from Washington. Just obviously there was some sense that this was coming, it's now here. What's your read on things?
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: My read Phil and Poppy is that colleges and universities, they are likely scouring this opinion, really trying to figure out how they can restructure their admissions policies to comply.
Because the Supreme Court in this opinion, does leave a little bit of gray area. For example, schools are essentially no longer permitted to have students check a box indicating race.
But yet students are permitted to talk about how their race has impacted their lives in essays or otherwise.
And amid all of this uncertainty, there's also been outcry along with praise for this decision.
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BIDEN: There is ton more to unravel basic rights and basic decisions than any court in recent history.
SCHNEIDER (voice over): President Joe Biden, slamming the Supreme Court after it up ended decades of precedent on affirmative action. The 6-3 opinion written by Chief Justice John Roberts says Harvard and the University of North Carolina violated the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection Clause.
Roberts writing, "The student must be treated based on his or her experiences as an individual, not on the basis of race. Many universities have for too long done just the opposite."
Justice Sonia Sotomayor, the first woman of color on the Supreme Court, issued a fiery dissent, accusing the conservative majority of employing an "unjustified exercise of power" that will only serve "to highlight the Court's own impotence in the face of an America whose cries for equality resound."
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The two cases were brought by the group, Students for Fair Admissions, led by activist Edward Blum, who has fought for nearly a decade to eradicate affirmative action.
The case against Harvard was brought on behalf of Asian students, arguing they were disadvantaged because Harvard prioritized other minorities and ranked them lower for personality traits.
KENNY XU, PRESIDENT OF COLOR US UNITED: We should be treated on the basis of our merits. We should be treated on the basis of how hard we work our study, or SAT scores, our grades, a name-blind, race-blind process is --
SCHNEIDER: But critics say the ruling is a setback for racial and ethnic equality in education.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm really most worried about, you know, the youth and like the students younger than us, in high school and middle school, and elementary school who might not get the same opportunity that I did.
SCHNEIDER: The divide reflected in sharply worded opinions from the Courts' two black justices: Justice Clarence Thomas writing, "Justice Jackson's race-infused world view falls flat at each step."
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson firing back, "Justice Thomas ignites too many more straw men to list, or fully extinguished, here."
Several GOP presidential contenders applauding the decision, including Senator Tim Scott.
SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But this is a good day for America, honestly. This is the day where we understand that being judged by the content of our character, not the color of our skin is what our constitution wants.
SCHNEIDER: The Biden administration now working to provide guidance to colleges nationwide.
MIGUEL CARDONA, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF EDUCATION: We're going to produce by September and publish best practices around college admission practices to ensure across the country that our students know that this administration is behind them, and we support them making it to college.
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SCHNEIDER (on camera): Now, there is a caveat in this case. The Supreme Court said that U.S. military service academies can actually continue to take race into consideration as a factor in admission. Essentially, exempting those military schools from this ruling. That was spelled out in a footnote in the majority opinion.
Poppy and Phil, you know, the chief Justice said that in the footnote. But Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson called it out in the dissent. HARLOW: Yes.
SCHNEIDER: Saying that the court was prioritizing what she called diversity in the bunker versus the boardroom. So, a lot of back and forth in this case.
MATTINGLY: Yes, no question. Jessica Schneider, thanks so much.
And we're going to have a lot of conversations surrounding the Supreme Court throughout the course of the next couple of hours that will include a sit down with Education Secretary Miguel Cardona, who will join us.
Why he's calling the affirmative action ruling a "step backwards"?
HARLOW: Yes, a lot of head on that.
Meantime, some big developments in both of Special Counsel Jack Smith's investigations of former President Donald Trump. We are now learning a former Trump campaign official is cooperating in Smith's probe of election -- of efforts to overturn the 2020 election.
His name who's cooperating is Mike Roman. He is a key witness in the fake electoral scheme.
You might remember him because he pleaded, The Fifth, when the January 6 committee asked him about it.
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And what was your role, if any, in having alternate electors meeting states that Mr. Trump had lost, including Pennsylvania?
MIKE ROMAN, FORMER CAMPAIGN OFFICIAL OF DONALD TRUMP: The Fifth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you discuss the alternate electors plan with President Trump, either before or after the electors met and cast votes on December 14th, 2020.
ROMAN: The Fifth.
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MATTINGLY: Well, in the classified documents probe, we're told, prosecutors have been questioning a top Trump campaign aide. The former president allegedly showed this campaign aide, a classified map of a military operation and told her not to get too close, because you shouldn't be showing it to her.
HARLOW: As you can see a lot of developments on both those probes, let's go straight to our senior crime and justice correspondent Katelyn Polantz to break down how significant they are.
Let's start with the 2020 election probe. Talk to us about Mike Roman.
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Phil and Poppy, the Special Counsel's Office, they are getting answers. That is the bottom line here.
This person, Mike Roman, he was a campaign official in the 2020 election for Donald Trump. He was that one of the people working on election day operations. And clearly, someone involved in organizing those fake electors in battleground states across the country.
And what's so significant about this is that there are a lot of signs that the Special Counsel's Office is drilling down on that fake electoral scheme, and that they're in a very end stage of the investigation there.
And what's indicative of what they are doing is that they are getting answers from people who refused earlier to provide answers like to the House investigators whenever they questioned Mike Roman, and he took The Fifth.
But in this circumstance, he is answering. He is willing to answer because he's willing to cooperate, because he has a layer of protection as far as we know.
And so, that allows him to become a witness who can talk not just about his communications with potentially Trump himself, but with others who were orchestrating that scheme.
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People like Rudy Giuliani, other really senior people around Donald Trump, after the 2020 election.
MATTINGLY: Katelyn, on another investigation that's ongoing from the Special Counsel's Office, we learned from sources, the Special Counsel's Office is still investigating the former president's handling of documents even after the indictment.
All right. You're my legal expert that I always go to. Why? There is already an indictment, why would they still be investigated?
POLANTZ: There is already an indictment, but this is something that happens in investigations. Now, this is the investigation around Donald Trump and classified records. So, it's an investigation like not many others, but we are learning that there is this grand jury in Miami, that's still cutting subpoenas, there are still witnesses being approached, there may be avenues, and even potentially other people, may be other charges that the prosecutors are still looking at, wanting to use that grand jury, and get more information about.
We don't know exactly what lane they're pursuing right now, but this investigation is still active. It is not over. Even though we already have this indictment.
This indictment on the books of Donald Trump and his co-defendant Walt Nauta, his political aide.
HARLOW: And Katelyn, before you go. Susie Wiles, a major player in Trump world right now effectively running his campaign? POLANTZ: She is, indeed. But she is one of the people in Donald Trump's close political circles, who is also a witness. Now, this is in the classified documents investigation in the indictment. Already, we knew that Donald Trump had shown a map of a military operation, a classified map to someone who is a representative of his political action committee.
We have confirmed that, that is indeed, Susie Wiles, still working with him as a top adviser on his campaign. But she is a person that spoke to investigators multiple times, clearly as part of that indictment, potentially could be called to trial. May be one of those people on that list. He can't talk about this documents case with at all. And so, pretty significant there.
And also, our sources tell our reporting team that the Trump inner circle was blindsided by the news that Susie Wiles is a witness on this.
But there she is, along with many others in Donald Trump's political circle.
MATTINGLY: I'm not sure there is a more important person in the Trump campaign apparatus and Susie Wiles.
Great reporting as always, Katelyn Polantz. Thank you.
HARLOW: Washington Metro Police have arrested a man with numerous firearms and materials to make an explosive that arrest was just blocks from former President Obama's home.
Officials say Taylor Taranto had an arrest warrant, related to the January 6th Capitol attack. They say he also made threats on an Internet livestream.
Gabe Cohen joins us live from Washington. Gabe, good morning. What do we know?
GABE COHEN: CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, Poppy, police have arrested and charged Taylor Taranto with at least being a fugitive from justice, because that open warrant that you mentioned related to the January 6 attack at the Capitol.
And it's really hard to say how close he was to doing damage here, but the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force is now investigating. And the details here are really disturbing.
Police say Taranto was in a van, in former President Obama's D.C. neighborhood with guns and material to make a Molotov cocktail, after making claims on an Internet livestream that he had a detonator.
And Capitol police quickly got involved yesterday. They said because of not just concern for public safety, but also the potential for violence against members of Congress. And that Arsenal was enough that police requested an explosive disposal team to actually sweep Taranto's van at the scene. Although, law enforcement officials told CNN, there is no indication of a direct threat to the Obamas. And a spokesperson for the family declined to comment on whether or not they were even home.
But Poppy, Taranto is active on YouTube. You can see one of those videos on your screen right now. That video posted, showing him inside the Capitol on January 6th.
And we also know that yesterday morning, before the arrest, a Truth Social account, with the same username as Taranto's YouTube page reposted a post from former President Donald Trump that included the purported D.C. address of the Obamas.
And the repost that you can see on your screen reads "Got them surrounded."
Now, of course, Poppy, there is a question of motive, which we don't know something investigators are digging into.
HARLOW: Gabe, thank you very much for the reporting. Keep us posted.
MATTINGLY: All right. Well, today is the busiest day to fly and when it's expected to become a record-breaking holiday travel weekend.
You're looking right now at live pictures from inside Dulles International Airport down in the Washington, D.C. area. Luggage piling up at the baggage claim there.
TSA officials say they're expecting agents to screen nearly 3 million passengers. That's nearly half a million more than this day last year. And it comes after days of travel, it's getting stranded at airports across the country because of delays and cancellations.
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CNN's Omar Jimenez is live at LaGuardia Airport in New York City. And Omar, look, man, give me some good news. We have seen your reporting. All of the picture is kind of the horror stories from airports over the course of the last couple days. What should people expect today?
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, look for anyone who travels on a holiday weekend, sometimes it's hard to know what to expect. But honestly, almost anything would be better than what people saw from last weekend into the week where we saw 1000s of delays.
Tens of thousand or thousands of cancellations. Tens of thousands of delays over a combination of severe weather, but also staffing shortages at U.S. airlines and at the Federal Aviation Administration, the FAA, especially with air traffic controllers.
And the reason all that context is important, it's because that's what they're building from into what is expected to be a record weekend for travel over this Fourth of July.
And not just by air, but by road as well. AAA estimating that nearly -- are over 40 million people are expected to drive. That's up from last year. Over 4 million are expected to fly. That's up over 10 percent from last year, and even up from a record travel year of 2019.
And then, over 3 million expected to travel by other means, which is even that up 24 percent from last year. But then, when it comes to flying, TSA expected to screen nearly 3 million passengers.
2.8 million is the current record, and that was from a few weeks ago.
So, obviously, they've got their -- they've got their tests laid out for them. And we'll see if any improvements come from last week.
But again, any improvement from last weekend is a good improvement.
MATTINGLY: Yes, a little bit of a low bar. Let's hope it's exceeded. That would be nice.
JIMENEZ: Yes.
MATTINGLY: So, Omar Jimenez. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.
HARLOW: The majority conservative Court with a landmark decision on affirmative action will tell you what is at stake and how this really reshapes America, especially for students with our experts. Plus, this.
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MATTINGLY (voice over): And 1000s of police deployed as clashes continue in France over the police killing of a teenager. A third night of riots leading to nearly 700 arrests.
What the teen's mothers now saying about the fallout? We're going to be live in France.
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AMERICAN CROWD: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) people! (INAUDIBLE) people! (INAUDIBLE) people!
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HARLOW: Fall out this morning from many people who disagree with the Supreme Court's decision yesterday, which got affirmative action in higher education.
The 6-3 ruling will reshape college admissions immediately and likely up end diversity policies nationwide, potentially in business and beyond. President Biden not happy with the decision.
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SAENZ: President Biden, the Congressional Black Caucus said the Supreme Court has thrown into question its own legitimacy. Is this a rogue court?
BIDEN: This is not a normal court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: With us now, civil rights lawyer Randolph McLaughlin, CNN politics commentator Errol Louis, CNN legal analyst Elliot Williams.
Gentlemen, thank you all for joining us at the table on a really consequential morning in America. Because as Phil and I were saying at the top of the show, this is a different America.
This follows overturning Roe versus Wade. This follows the Bruen decision on guns, which totally changed the reading of the Second Amendment.
And now, this. What does this mean?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Honestly, I think step back for a moment, and it's not. When we look at the impact of Donald Trump's presidency, this is what the lasting legacy of the Trump presidency will be.
It's not the wall. It's not the tax cuts, it's not any other thing. Both former President Trump and Senate leadership in the form of Leader McConnell made remaking the federal or reshaping the federal judiciary, a huge priority.
And abortion, for instance, and affirmative action have long been targets of allies of the of the former president. It's just -- it's just a fact. And what you're seeing now are the impacts of that, that will persist for generations.
I think, you know, I think, we, in America get caught up on the sort of day to day little political fights. And some of those will come and go.
But courts, judges remain on courts for, you know, for their lifetimes and this market down now. You're going to keep seeing decisions like this over the next 20 years, because that's how the judiciary works.
MATTINGLY: Randolph, you know, what's been interesting to me, having followed some big conservative legal movement for a number of years, this has certainly been a goal? This has certainly been something that pushed towards?
And I think when you have the 6-3 majority, that Elliot is talking about, the real legacy, I think, at the Trump administration, there is an expectation that this ruling was coming to some degree.
One of the individuals who was involved in the process of trying to get these courses in front of the case -- in front of the Court spoke to our Kate Bolduan yesterday. I want you to listen to what he had to say.
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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: But what do you say to the millions of people who point to affirmative action, race-based admissions as a reason for their success in life?
KENNY XU, PRESIDENT OF COLOR US UNITED: I could point to race-based admissions as the reason why Asian Americans are being discriminated against right now.
I mean, if you're an Asian American, you'd have to score 273 points higher on the SAT to have the same chance of admission as a black person to Harvard. Is that fair?
I understand that people's lives are improved by getting into an Ivy League university, but that opportunity should be made available to people of every race, not just one.
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MATTINGLY: What's your response to that?
RANDOLPH MCLAUGHLIN, PROFESSOR, PACE UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF LAW: My response to that it's very straightforward. Affirmative action programs should not discriminate or penalize any racial group, whether they're Asians or other racial groups, that's categorically true. Should not. And the Courts basically recognize that.
But here is what I'm here also to say. Affirmative action is not dead. It's mortally wounded, that this Court didn't go as far as they were planning to go. Certainly, in Justice Thomas's mind, Justice Thomas wanted to overrule and declare affirmative action, completely illegal unconstitutional.
This court was unwilling to go that far. He has not yet a majority to say affirmative action is unconstitutional. There is a small group. Justice Alito, Justice Thomas, and maybe a couple of others who would agree with that. But there's still a window open in this case. There is still an opportunity.
Diversity is still a compelling state interest. All the judges, except for Thomas, who has his own issues with this.
[06:25:06]
All the judges agreed that, that is still a compelling state interest.
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HARLOW: Yes.
MCLAUGHLIN: The only thing that was decided to hear categorically, was if these two programs weren't constitutionally sound. That's all.
HARLOW: So, that -- I mean, that's indicative of the Roberts' Court moving incrementally instead of in a sweeping way.
But Laura Coates, let me bring you in to this conversation, as well, because the way that Justice Sotomayor sees that, in this scathing dissent, in her words, is lipstick on a pig.
LAURA COATES, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's really a realization that she has had and talked about over the course of her career, which is interesting juxtaposition between herself, of course, and Justice Thomas.
One seeing it as racial sensitivity, one seeing it as racial paternalism. But this is all supposed to be rooted not in one's philosophical ideology, but instead, based on the Constitution and also the context surrounding it.
Remember, the 14th Amendment is a post-Civil War amendment, intended to course correct those who have been disadvantaged, those who have been discriminated against. Black people in America that has also been, of course expanded to include other racial groups, as time has continued.
But you saw in the dissent, as you saw in the concurring opinion of Justice Thomas, the conversation really about what the intention of that was supposed to be in the long term.
Now, of course, Thomas spent about 10 plus pages going after not only the dissent, generally, but also Ketanji Brown Jackson, the youngest of the Supreme Court justices, of course, in her career.
But he focused instead on the idea of a racialized ideology, driving her particular perspective, as opposed to looking at what the Constitution.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Yes.
COATES: What the actual intent was, and beyond it. But what we saw here really, and I heard your prior guest talking about what the really conundrum can be, and how this will work in practice, that's really the crux of I think, the next frontier of arguments here.
How do you on the one hand, say that you cannot consider race as a factor, and on the other hand, have a sentence that says, you can have a student or an applicant discuss such things in a way that talks about their identity, their lived experience, their journey, what is an admissions officer to truly do to not offend the Constitution, according to the holding, and also avoid future litigation? I think this is going to be a really difficult task.
MATTINGLY: That really difficult task with, I think, a lot of litigation to come without any question.
Errol, I want to ask you, Laura noted the dissent from Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson. It was quite visceral to some degree, and obviously very personal for her. At one point, she says, with let them eat cake obliviousness today, the majority pulls the ripcord and announces colorblindness for all, by legal fiat, by deeming race relevant and law does not make it so in life.
ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, that's really what the dissent was about. Justice Sotomayor made the same point. And for all of us who are sort of affirmative action babies, meaning, we came in under this regime and got a shot at elite learning, and a chance to really succeed in society because of it.
Ketanji Brown Jackson is certainly one of those people. And if you look at the way things were, I mean, he's a realist, basically, when it comes to this.
At Harvard, Harvard started in the 1600s. It's much older than the United States. For 300 plus years, they typically allowed into the college 12 or fewer black students prior to 1970, less than one percent.
And all of that change when affirmative action was created. And the minute it happens, it gives rise to this extraordinary group of people who go on to run major corporations, you know? They're running Merrill-Lynch. And they're running, you know, American Express. Merck.
HARLOW: Merck.
LOUIS: Yes. You know, and then, right behind that, you get the cohort in the 1990s with a guy named Barack Obama.
HARLOW: Yes.
LOUIS: You know? And Ketanji Brown Jackson. And Sonia Sotomayor talks about this really, as well. Saying like, this is what it was intended to do. This is why it's not just something that's irrelevant, as Justice Thomas seem to insist that it might be.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: That's right.
To your point, and also, we have to remember there was a day when Justice Clarence Thomas was an advocate for affirmative action. He has talked openly about how it was one of the things that propelled him into Yale Law School, then, he became very critical of what it meant for him and others after.
What I'd like to do is play two pieces of sound. The first is Sonia Sotomayor in 1994 talking about being in her words in affirmative action, baby.
The next is Justice Clarence Thomas speaking to "60 Minutes" in 2007, about viewing it in a -- in a diametrically opposed way. Here they are.
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SONIA SOTOMAYOR, ASSOCIATE JUSTICE, SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am a product of affirmative action.
[06:30:01]
I am the perfect affirmative action baby.
My test scores were not comparable to that of my colleagues at Princeton or Yale.
