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Supreme Court Ends College Affirmative Action; Third Night of Protests in France; Surovikin was VIP Member of Wagner Group; Ex-Trump Official Cooperating with Special Counsel; Jury Finds Peterson Not Guilty. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired June 30, 2023 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

JUDGE SONIA SOTOMAYOR, U.S. DISTRICT COURT, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK (June 9, 1994): I am the perfect affirmative action (INAUDIBLE).

My test scores were not comparable to that of my colleagues at Princeton or Yale. But if we had gone through the traditional numbers route of those institutions, it would have been highly questionable whether I would have been accepted.

JUSTICE CLARENCE THOMAS, SUPREME COURT (September 30, 2007): Honestly, honestly believed that Yale thought that having a kid who came from working people in the south, who had grown up through segregation, that this kid, who had prospered, who had done well every single place he'd ever been, whether an all-white school, all-black school, he'd always done well, he will do well here, and it will benefit both him and Yale. That's what I thought. Now that's what you do when you're 21, 22 years of age. You can make a mistake. Well, that isn't what it was converted to.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was it converted to?

THOMAS: It was converted to, well, you're here because you're black.

That degree meant one thing for whites and another thing for blacks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was discounted?

THOMAS: It was discounted. That's right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You - you write in the book that your Yale degree was worth 15 cents.

THOMAS: Well, you know, I -- Steve, I have still a 15 cent sticker on the frame that my law degree is in. It's tainted, so I just leave it in the basement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: He says he had a hard time getting a job after -- even with that degree. PROF. RANDOLPH MCLAUGHLIN, PACE UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF LAW:

Unfortunately, Justice Thomas has not left his personal feelings and animosity towards Yale, towards affirmative action in the basement. He's left - he's put it right front and center. He's made his personal issues, the stigmatic harm that he feels. He's made that a constitutional question. And, I'm sorry, Justice Thomas, obviously, has an issue with affirmative action. But we should not allow one judge to determine what our national constitutional policies are.

HARLOW: (INAUDIBLE) six?

MCLAUGHLIN: Well, yes, but he's the one who wants to overturn Grutter. The others don't yet. And you're right, incremental change is Roberts' hallmark. So, just like Dobbs eventually overturned Roe we may eventually see Grutter and Bacti (ph) also overturned.

So the question is, what are we going to do about it today and now going forward?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, it's interesting, watching those two clips next to each other, because I think it affirms this idea that there's a lot of different ways to be a black person or a person of color, whatever it might be, in America. And they both have completely plausible reasoning for what they took away from affirmative action. I'm not going to quibble with either of them.

The - the thing - the point with Justice Thomas, though, is that there is a demonstrable impact on admissions when you take affirmative action away. And so by way of example, if you restrict or limit or sort of reduce the number of black people who come to a university, you're - you're significantly limiting the number of women as well because about two-thirds of black people in college today are young women. And so you're going to have to contend with some of these real impacts on changing the face, pun intended, of a future student body.

And I just think even setting aside the personal views of whether affirmative action is stigmatizing or harmful or whatever it might be, it's going to have an impact on what universities look like starting next year or the year after.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Laura.

LAURA COATES, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: You know, it's interesting because on the one hand people might forget that Justice Thomas was once the chair of the Equal Opportunity Commission, which is interesting to think about.

HARLOW: That's right.

COATES: Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, thinking about the history and really the evolution that he seems to have had.

But I want to be clear on one thing, everyone who's talking about affirmative action, I think of the conversations happened across the nation, here's what it is and here's what it's not. Affirmative action is not one door for black and brown applicants and then you decide whether they're qualified. It often is used in the admissions process that otherwise qualified applicants who have met the criteria, albeit subjectively as a violinist, a cellist, a veteran, a legacy, somebody who is an athlete, a whole host of circumstances, and then there is oftentimes the contemplation of what might distinguish one student from another to contribute to the overall community. That's normally how it's viewed and used in operations and admissions.

I'm hearing a lot of conversation throughout the last 24 hours about, ah-hah, finally you'll have students with merit who actually attend. Well, that was always the case. They also just happened to have different colored skin.

Number two, when you're talking about the Brown versus Board of Education, think back to that infamous dolls experiment that spoke to the sociological and psychological impact of racism and segregation. Part of what motivated that Supreme Court was that there was a test that had black children handed dolls that were black, handed dolls that were white, and they asked them, what did they think about the characteristics of those dolls? Black children looked at these black dolls and overwhelmingly thought they were bad, they were wrong, they were evil, they were ignorant, they were dumb.

[06:35:04]

And that was what motivated the courts to say, hold on, racism has a psychological impact as well on white students as well who were viewing the same criteria.

So, conversations from Justice Thomas and beyond about the impact of race in America is still very much at issue today given his own holding about the impact of affirmative action he believes on himself.

HARLOW: Everyone stay with us. There's a lot more to talk about here, really about what is ahead.

Also this news from around the world. Officials in France struggling to contain unrest that has spread across the country. Hundreds of protesters are in custody this morning. The violence sparking a second crisis meeting for President Macron.

MATTINGLY: Plus, CNN has exclusively learned that the Russian general accused of knowing about the rebellion over this past weekend was a secret VIP member of the Wagner group. We're live in Moscow with the very latest.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: New this morning, a third night of violent nationwide protests across France after the police shot and killed a 17-year-old during a traffic stop.

You're watching video of angry demonstrators shooting off fireworks at police and lighting fires to schools, town halls and police stations. Forty thousand officers were deployed to quell the protests. [06:40:01]

More than 600 people have been arrested.

The officer who shot the teen has been charged with voluntary homicide.

CNN's Nic Robertson is live for us outside Paris.

And, Nic, what are you see? What are we hearing at this point from the teen's mother?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, she is saying as she led what was initially yesterday a peaceful protest until it turned violent. She said, look, I don't hold - I don't hold all the police responsible. I don't blame all of the police. I just blame the one who shot my son, the person I love. So, she's been very clear on that, which kind of matches in a little way what the government is saying that the response so far has been unjustified in its scale, that what the protesters are doing is damaging the infrastructure that regular people in France use.

I mean take a look behind me. The bus station here. Twelve buses here torched last night, 26 buses in this local neighborhood torched, a tram as well. Total cost of that, ballpark, $11.5 million. And that's only one place in France.

You've got cities in the north, like Lille (ph), like Rubay (ph). You've got Nont (ph) in the west. You've got Bordeaux in the south. You've got -- you've got -- in the - in the Mediterranean there, you've got cities there affected in the center of France. Lyon (ph) has been affected by the protests as well. It's happening all over the country.

I asked the transport minister, who was here this morning, what do you do to put out the flames of this protests?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLEMONT BEAUNE, FRENCH TRANSPORT MINISTER (through translator): It's in the interests of those who are expressing their anger today to protect our public service and then we lead from the society of law. The justice system needs to be able to carry out its work. No one is above the law, but everyone has the rights protected by the law. We also need to leave the justice system in tranquility. It's what we owe to the young man who was killed, calm, tranquility and justice carried out in good conditions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: Yes, they're bring in recovery equipment right now for the buses. We're moving. But this is a big situation. The concern is that the violence is going to get worse and it's going to spread. The president, Macron, is about to hold an emergency crisis meeting with his cabinet. There are protests planned for tonight. Nahel's funeral is Saturday. This is not over yet. MATTINGLY: No question.

Nic Robertson, thanks so much.

HARLOW: Now to Russia.

Documents shared exclusively with CNN suggest that top general, Sergei Surovikin, was also a secret VIP member of the Wagner mercenary group. Some Russian newspapers and blogs report that he was arrested over last weekend's brief rebellion. But a government official in Russia is denying that, saying, quote, he's not in Lefortovo or any other pre- trial detention facility. I don't even want to comment on the nonsense about, quote, an underground detention facility.

Our Matthew Chance joins us live from Moscow.

This general, though, hasn't been seen for days. We should note, neither has Wagner's chief, Yevgeny Prigozhin. What do we know?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, I mean, Prigozhin certainly hasn't been seen for days, and nor has this general, General Surovikin. And the Kremlin are refusing to comment on his whereabouts. You heard that local official saying he's not in one of these pre-trial detention center, but he may - he may well be, you know, somewhere else, perhaps being held on a military base. We just don't know where he is.

But these documents that were given to CNN exclusively do show that General Surovikin, who is the deputy commander, remember, of Russian forces in Ukraine, was on a list of VIP members of the Wagner mercenary group. There were 30 other people there, high level military and intelligence officials, according to the dossier center, which is a Russian investigative group, that has obtained these documents.

It's not clear what VIP membership actually entails. Whether it means they're on the payroll or whether there's any other kind of financial benefits. There's no evidence of that that has been disclosed. But it does imply an overly close relationship between the senior figures in the Russian military and the Wagner mercenary group that staged that attempted uprising here in Russia at the weekend.

And, of course, remember that Wagner was able to move without opposition from the military into at least one major Russian city. And so this raises the question of potential divided loyalties.

Poppy and Phil, back to you.

HARLOW: Matthew Chance, in Moscow, thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, top Trump campaign aide now revealed as a key figure in his classified documents case. Who is she? And what Trump allegedly showed her while discussing military operations. That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:47:21]

MATTINGLY: New this morning, multiple sources are now telling CNN that the Florida grand jury that indicted former President Donald Trump in the classified documents case is actually not finished investigating. It's unclear what exactly prosecutors are looking for. But we do know they're continuing to question witnesses. One of the people they're talking to, top Trump campaign aide Susie Wiles. A source tells CNN Trump allegedly showed her a classified map of a military site at his Bedminster golf club in 2021.

HARLOW: Meantime, in yet another investigation dogging the former president, a former Trump campaign -- 2020 campaign official, Mike Roman, is, we've learned, cooperating with the special counsel in the probe of efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

Back with us Laura Coates, Errol Louis and Elliot Williams.

Errol, let me start with you about - I think Mike Roman is not a household name for folks but did speak to the January 6th committee but took the Fifth a lot of times. The fact that he's cooperating because those are really important questions that he wouldn't answer to the committee that cooperation would suggest he is now answering to Jack Smith.

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's exactly right. And if you are granted immunity when you go into the grand jury, you can speak quite freely. And so the Trump team has got to be very worried about what he might or might not be saying. This is something Donald Trump, throughout his, always tried to rely on, you know, you're my guy, you're on my team, you know, attorney/client privilege, we're all in this together. That's not necessarily the case. I mean attorneys are, you know, they are officers of the court. They have a (INAUDIBLE).

HARLOW: But he's key for a specific reason in terms of - Mike Roman, in terms of sort of suggesting fake electors.

LOUIS: Well, that's right. The fake elector scheme I think got a breath of new life when it was struck down just the other day. So even as a theory, I think prosecutors may have a different approach to this. They may have some clarity. Enough clarity that they may decide to go further with the investigation and even start considering charges in connection with it.

MATTINGLY: Laura, can I ask, you know, Susie Wiles may not be a household name. I think to some degree that's by design on her part. She is a very powerful figure within the Trump campaign orbit, within Florida politics for years, including before they had a falling out, Governor Ron DeSantis.

The idea that she's now involved in this or has been involved in this, what does that tell you about this?

COATES: Well, this is a very wide net that's been cast. And, remember, Every time we're hearing a public statement from the president in reaction to this indictment, a question is raised, were there other people in a room where anything is allege that had could actually give and shed some light on an issue? We are learning a lot - a lot about the people who are consequential, who might have been in front of the cameras, but now it's the behind-the-scenes aspects of all these investigations, the diligence of investigation that has to actually uncover these things.

[06:50:03]

It's going to be very telling going forward, Phil, to figure out to what extent somebody is actually a cooperator in the sense that they otherwise refuse to give testimony and be heard unless they got an immunity deal, or they were voluntarily cooperating, hoping to have some advantage and lenience in terms of not being charged, or they are somebody who has no intention of being aligned with Donald Trump any longer or his co-defendant, Will Nauta, or in the fake elector scheme's conversation and simply is hoping to be a proactive citizen of America. We'll see what remains actually to be the case.

HARLOW: I'm most interested in all of these developments this morning on this front by why Jack Smith is continuing to probe in the Mar-a- Lago case even after this 37-count indictment.

WILLIAMS: Right.

HARLOW: You say there are two possible explanations.

WILLIAMS: I - yes, no, it's two and then let's maybe even say three.

HARLOW: OK.

WILLIAMS: They are either considering more charges against former President Trump.

HARLOW: OK.

WILLIAMS: More charges against additional people, so bringing more people in and charging them with crimes, or not adding to the charges in any way but just bolstering what they already have. You know, whenever you --

HARLOW: Like what they'll argue in court?

WILLIAMS: Yes, whatever they'll argue in court or additional documents that might support the charges they have or more acts of obstruction, you know, more conduct that they could use to charge obstruction of justice.

So it's really just making their case stronger in any way, but - but it's hard to tell which of those three options it might be.

MATTINGLY: What are you even here for?

HARLOW: What?

MATTINGLY: We need a single answer, definitively. And that is exactly what - WILLIAMS: The single - no, I'll tell you, the single answer is maybe.

MATTINGLY: Maybe. I love that. That's - that's a -

LOUIS: That is a good attorney (ph).

MATTINGLY: That is a - that is a (INAUDIBLE).

Errol, the idea -- I'm fixated on the - the Susie Wiles involvement to some degree or whatever her role is because I just think - and it's hard for people maybe to understand this. She's incredibly important inside the orbit. And it doesn't mean one thing -- we don't know exactly what this means at all. I think CNN also reported that the Trump campaign (INAUDIBLE) was pretty surprised by this development. Can you -- the extent that that matters inside the campaign and political apparatus.

LOUIS: Well, look, it -- it matters tremendously. Not - I mean, look, politically, as pundits you look at it and say, oh, that's one of the insiders.

MATTINGLY: Right.

LOUIS: Maybe she's turning on him. Put that aside. Legally speaking, there could be a superseding indictment. There could be a real problem for him if what she is doing is informing the special prosecutor about additional instances in which confidential materials were either leaked or displayed or otherwise put forward in a different location than what we had heard about. If this isn't just a Mar-a-Lago dinner or this isn't just an instance at Bedminster, if there are other documents, things like a map that we hadn't really heard much about before, he could be in for a world of trouble. Additional - additional problems.

MATTINGLY: I went to Errol because he's a political insider and I thought we would vibe on the political insider thing.

HARLOW: And then he said superseding indictment.

MATTINGLY: And then he totally - he totally cast it aside and then started talking about the legal -

LOUIS: Lawyers. They gave me a -

WILLIAMS: Lawyers don't - (INAUDIBLE) as a lawyer and -

(CROSS TALK)

HARLOW: When you go to Harvard -- what do you expect from a Harvard Law School grad?

MATTINGLY: It was a mistake. It was short sided on my part. And I have been --

HARLOW: It's because you told - it's because you were mean to Elliot.

MATTINGLY: I wasn't mean to Elliot.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I - you know, I - I've got a tough skin. I'm --

MATTINGLY: I'm a Yankees fan. We're just going back -

WILLIAMS: Oh, come on, we are Yankees fans.

MATTINGLY: Yes, yes, we're good.

HARLOW: All right, coming up for us, this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant is not guilty so say we all this 29th day of June 20, 2023.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That's exactly right. A very emotional reaction from - that is Scot Peterson, the former Parkland, Florida, resource officer. The jury acquitted him of all charges for failing to act during the deadly school shooting.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:56:10]

MATTINGLY: Well, a jury in Florida finding former Parkland resource officer Scot Peterson not guilty on all charges. Now, you'll remember, Peterson broke down in tears as the sentence was read on Thursday. Prosecutors had accused him of ignoring his training and waiting outside the high school as a gunman inside killed 17 people, including 14 students, back in 2018.

CNN's Carlos Suarez reports.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant is not guilty.

CARLOS SUAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): An emotional Scot Peterson breaking down in a Florida courtroom after a jury finds the former school resource officer not guilty on 11 charges ranging from felony child neglect to perjury. Peterson was the first law enforcement officer on the scene the day 17 people, including 14 students, were gunned down at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in what remains the deadliest U.S. high school shooting ever.

SCOT PETERSON: We've got our life back after four and a half years. It's been an emotional roller coaster for so long.

SUAREZ: State prosecutors accused Peterson of ignoring his training and doing nothing, failing to confront the gunman to save lives.

KRISTEN GOMES, PROSECUTOR: What was expected was for Scot Peterson to value the lives of those children as much as he clearly valued his own.

SUAREZ: Prosecutor Kristen Gomes pointed out Peterson stayed in a protected position for more than 45 minutes while the shooter was free to move and continue his rampage. The defense argued gunfire echoed off buildings, and Peterson couldn't tell where the gunshots were coming from.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not just a victory for Scot, it's a victory for every law enforcement officer in this country who does the best they can every single day.

SUAREZ: For some of the victims' families, they don't see this as a victory.

TONY MONTALTO, FATHER OF PARKLAND SHOOTING VICTIM GINA MONTALTO: I feel that my faith in the U.S. justice system is shaken.

SUAREZ: Tony Montalto's daughter, Gina, was killed that day.

MONTALTO: We don't understand how this jury looked at the evidence that was presented and found him not guilty.

SUAREZ: Manuel Oliver, whose son Joaquin was killed in the mass shooting, says this was not a day to celebrate.

MANUEL OLIVER, FATHER OF PARKLAND SHOOTING VICTIM JOAQUIN OLIVER: Joaquin cannot say today, oh, I'm going back to my life. He will never say that. You guys signed for that job.

SUAREZ: And Fred Guttenberg, the father of victim Jamie, took his frustration of the verdict to Twitter. Quote, while Peterson and his attorney Mark Eiglarsh celebrate him getting his life back, they must always remember that my daughter was murdered.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SUAREZ: And this morning Scot Peterson's legal troubles may not be over. Some of the Parkland families plan on going after him in civil court.

Now, after the verdict, Peterson said he was willing to meet with some of the families, but none of the family members that we talked to, none of the family members that were in court said they were interested in meeting Scot Peterson.

Phil and Poppy.

MATTINGLY: All right, Carlos Suarez, thanks for the reporting.

And coming up ahead, we'll speak with Scot Peterson about his emotional reaction and his message to Parkland family members about that verdict.

CNN THIS MORNING continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The ruling is seismic. Now come the aftershocks.

The Supreme Court has gutted affirmative action.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It prevents our higher education institution from using a tool that helps promote diversity on campus.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is not a normal court.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today's decision marks a landmark win for the rights of Asian Americans in this country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Being able to consider my race and my story is how I believe Harvard was able to see me.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: The Florida grand jury that indicted Donald Trump in the classified documents case is actually still investigating.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: One of Donald Trump's closest campaign advisers was shown a classified map by the former president.

[07:00:05]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Susie Wiles. We know she was interviewed multiple times by the special counsel.