Return to Transcripts main page
CNN This Morning
GOP Candidates Storm Iowa and New Hampshire; William Taylor is Interviewed about Ukraine into NATO; Berberine Touted for Weight Loss. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired July 04, 2023 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:32:19]
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: You are looking at live pictures from Iowa and New Hampshire this morning where some of the Republican candidates will be spending their July 4th holiday. Former Vice President Mike Pence and Miami Mayor Francis Suarez will be in Iowa. Senator Tim Scott, North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, they're going to be crisscrossing New Hampshire.
So, let's bring in New York - former New York Congressman Max Rose, and "Semafor" politics reporter Shelby Talcott.
Shelby, since I always go to you for telling me what's actually happening on the ground and what voters are saying, what was striking yesterday was the statement from -- the comments from the DeSantis super PAC, acknowledging to Steve Cortes' credit, reality to some degree. But I want you to listen to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE CORTES, SPOKESMAN FOR PRO-DESANTIS "NEVER BACK DOWN" SUPER PAC: Look, right now, in national polling, we are way behind. I'll be the first to admit that. OK. I believe I'm being really blunt and really honest. It's an uphill battle. I don't think it's an unwinnable battle by any stretch, OK, but clearly Donald Trump is the runaway front- runner.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: So, there's kind of two elements of it. First is like, yes, OK, that's true. And second is, saying that out loud is not necessarily something any super PAC or candidate wants to do. Why - why is he saying it?
SHELBY TALCOTT, POLITICS REPORTER, "SEMAFOR": That's a good question. I think -- I think - I mean a very good question. I think you have to ask him that.
But, also, I think he's - he's correct, as you say. Maybe he's being too blunt, right? He does have a job. He's getting paid. But it's correct. And I think in one way acknowledging that they are in this position could allow them to maybe rectify it.
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: But does that reflect that they suffered post indictment, meaning trying to get money out of donors one way or another has become more difficult?
TALCOTT: Yes. I don't know. I think -- I do think that DeSantis is one of the better people in the race in that regard. So, I don't know if money is going to be his problem necessarily. I think it's, can we get some of those voters who are now more in Trump's camp than ever because of the indictment over to our side. But I guess acknowledging that you're doing something wrong is the first step to fixing the problem in a way.
MATTINGLY: There was no acknowledgment of doing anything wrong, just that whatever they're doing is wrong.
TALCOTT: Yes.
CORNISH: Yes.
TALCOTT: And that's a good point is - is -- I think some of this is out of their hands, especially as the indictments potentially keep coming.
MATTINGLY: Yes.
CORNISH: Max Rose, I want to ask about the lay of the land because, obviously, you've done a lot of campaigns. They're in New Hampshire and Iowa, which are first, but there's been so much dialogue about whether they should be in the primary process.
MAX ROSE (D), FORMER NEW YORK REPRESENTATIVE: Yes.
CORNISH: I mean what does it say about who is where? Meaning like a Tim Scott in New Hampshire versus someone else.
ROSE: Sure. Well, you know, I think that they're both crisscrossing each of those states over the course of the year, and they had to pick one. I think it is absolutely essential, though, that they are all in one of those two states.
[06:35:03]
What you're really seeing here is with Donald Trump, right, it's no longer about policy when you think about his hold on that primary base. It's --
CORNISH: Right. Which is why he's still in Bedminster, right? I mean he's not out there.
ROSE: He - this is about a cult of personality. And so they can't just go out there and do soaring speeches and have debates. They've got to go from barbecue, to parade, to festival, to everything in between and actually talk to people and show that they are a human being, something actually that some of these candidates struggle with, Ron DeSantis in particular. The other interesting thing associated with all of these events is
that they're always one step away from incredible embarrassment. And in the day and age when everyone has a camera, you know, that they're going to eat that hot dog and potentially it gets all over their shirt that - that's where political --
CORNISH: But we're also in the - in the age of the end of shame, right? Like you can't actually be embarrassed anymore, I think. Like I don't think a gaffe has taken anyone down in a minute.
MATTINGLY: Oh, they're - they're going to test it. They're going to test it in the next couple of months.
CORNISH: Yes, (INAUDIBLE).
MATTINGLY: Can I ask you, like, does retail still matter? And I ask that because were known as somebody who thrived in retail campaigning in politics. There were always pictures of you, you know, outside of a train station or outside - you know, constantly like sweating through your shirt. No offense, I respect that, like in the summers. But shaking hands, always being out. And I think one of the things that I think a lot of campaign operatives have tried to figure out, in the wake of Trump in 2016 and then the COVID election of 2020 is, like, do the old rules still apply in places like New Hampshire and Iowa?
ROSE: They, of course, do. I mean particularly in New Hampshire and Iowa where you see people who have, rightfully so, an incredible sense of self-importance. They do not care if you're a forearm vice president. They don't care if you're a sitting governor. You better come into their home --
CORNISH: Well, they would consider themselves civic minded, but, yes.
ROSE: Sure. Well -
MATTINGLY: Both things can be true.
ROSE: But if, you know -
CORNISH: I'd like to not get mail from (INAUDIBLE).
ROSE: Well - well, I think -- I think that, you know, whereas when Ron DeSantis walks into a room in Florida, that is the sitting governor and he is treated as such. When he is walking around Iowa and New Hampshire, he is just another candidate. And actually folks take great pride in that.
But what you're also going to see over the course of these Fourth of July events is a massive, massive change when it comes to Republican politics. Usually their rhetoric is centered around unity and patriotism and love of country, particularly on a day like this. But today you're still going to see this rhetoric that is dystopian in nature, talking about the weaponization of government and how, you know, the Biden administration is against us. Their language is not going to be about coming together, it is going to be about waging war against the establishment. CORNISH: Shelby, one more quick question. It's sort of unspoken but
I'll speak it. Who's running for vice president here?
TALCOTT: That's a good question.
MATTINGLY: Careful.
TALCOTT: Again, good questions this morning.
So, I mean, if you ask the -- all of the candidates, they would all say that they are not running for vice president.
CORNISH: Yes. But do the voters see it that way?
TALCOTT: No. And I've spoken to voters. And, listen, you talk to Tim Scott's campaign, they will tell you that he's not running for vice president. The quickest way to get on their - their bad list is to say he's running for vice president. But people are interested in him as a vice president. People are interested in Nikki Haley as a vice president. People are interested in Ron DeSantis as a vice president. I've heard from a lot of voters, and I don't think this would ever happen, that the Trump/DeSantis ticket would be unstoppable.
So, candidate -- these voters are looking at these candidates as, OK, you know, maybe they can't -- if they don't win the presidency, could they be an option for the vice presidency? And I think there's multiple options there. Whether they get picked, especially if Trump is the nominee, is the bigger question.
MATTINGLY: And just for clarity, to the Tim Scott campaign, to the Nikki Haley campaign, Shelby was very careful with how she framed that. Make very clear, you guys have made clear -
CORNISH: Just asking questions. I'm just asking questions.
MATTINGLY: That they are not running for vice president. She was reflecting conversations with voters. That distinction is important.
CORNISH: Yes.
ROSE: I'll say it, they're running for vice president.
MATTINGLY: Yell at Max.
Max Rose, Shelby Talcott, thanks so much, guys.
CORNISH: All right, still ahead, more on the major news overnight from Moscow. Russia intercepting drones they say were sent by Ukraine. And this as Ukraine's President Zelenskyy makes an appeal to President Biden in a CNN exclusive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: So he has a - he has a decision to make coming into this weekend?
PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINE: Yes. For today, yes. He is a decision maker for today to be Ukrainian NATO or not to be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:43:09]
CORNISH: New this morning, Russia claims it intercepted five Ukrainian drones. They say the drones were attempting to target an area where civilian infrastructure is located. Now, this is just the latest sign that Ukraine's counteroffensive is underway.
Meantime, in an exclusive interview with CNN's Erin Burnett, Ukrainian President Zelenskyy making clear that Ukraine's path to a NATO membership relies heavily on President Biden's immediate support.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY (through translator): The U.S. decide today whether Ukraine will get invited to NATO. This is today's situation. And it's a fact. The majority of the NATO countries support inviting Ukraine to NATO. Those who have their doubts look only at President Biden. And he knows that this depends on him. It will be his decision.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: So he has a - he has a decision to make coming into this weekend?
ZELENSKYY: Yes, for today. Yes. He's a decision maker for today to be Ukrainian NATO or not to be.
BURNETT: Right, not down the line, now.
ZELENSKYY: Now. It's very important. It will push Russia. It will push our soldiers to decupate (ph) quicker. But we know we will never be in NATO before war finish.
BURNETT: Right.
ZELENSKYY: So we understand everything. But this signal is really very important. And depends on Biden's decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Joining us now is former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor. He's the vice president of the Russia and Europe Center at the U.S. Institute of Peace.
Welcome to the program.
WILLIAM TAYLOR, VICE PRESIDENT FOR RUSSIA AND EUROPE CENTER, USIP: Thank you, Audie.
CORNISH: Now just because the Ukrainian president says it's a decision that has to be made doesn't necessarily mean it does. Can you talk about what the traditional U.S. reluctance has been to embracing Ukraine into NATO?
[06:45:01]
TAYLOR: Yes. This has been on the table for a long time. The question about Ukraine in NATO. If it came up, of course, in 2008, when President Bush pushed NATO to give an invitation to Ukraine and Georgia to join NATO. It - Audie, it would be interesting to go back, if we could do this over again, if the NATO alliance had said yes at that time, this war today may not have happened because Ukraine would have been in NATO and Russia would not have attacked.
However, that debate continues. And now it is, as President Zelenskyy just said, it's up to the summit in Vilnius, another NATO summit coming up this month. And the decision will be for the -- all the heads of state. They're probably still thinking about it. And I think he's right, President Bush -- President Biden is now considering exactly this question. And that will be the question for the heads of state in Vilnius in two weeks.
MATTINGLY: Ambassador Taylor, I mean, to be candid, in talking to White House officials that -- their national security team officials, I've never gotten the sense that a near-term decision on this was ever in the realm of possibility. And I understand why President Zelenskyy continues to push for that. It's exactly what he should be doing in this moment in time.
So, what is the outcome in Lithuania at the NATO summit that kind of threads the needle here between where the U.S. is on this issue and concerns they have. There is active conflict going on with Ukraine right now and Russia, and trying to provide some type of long-term security guarantee as part of what they're putting together beyond just now.
TAYLOR: Beyond just now. Phil, you're right. And I think most people agree, probably President Zelenskyy agrees, that joining NATO -- actually becoming a member of NATO right now is not in the cards for Ukraine. It's not going to happen while there is active conflict.
However, what the Vilnius summit can do is basically invite Ukraine to join when conditions are appropriate. That is, when it's possible for Ukraine to join, then they will join. That's the message that the Ukrainians are looking for is a firm commitment that once conditions are right, once it's appropriate, once it makes sense, then they'll be able to join NATO. That's the only way that they can have that security guarantee, Phil, that you mentioned. They need something to say to investors, to their people, to the world that they're not going to be invaded again. And the best guarantee is to be a member of NATO.
CORNISH: The other thing that we've learned is they're requesting cluster munitions. This is very controversial among European nations in particular. Can you talk about whether or not that - that makes sense for the U.S.?
TAYLOR: Well, the question is, does it make sense for the Ukrainians in the first instance. And they are fighting masses of Russian troops. And the military argument for these munitions is strong. That is, these are -- these munitions are effective against - against these Russian troops. There is a -- there are controversies about these weapons. Some of the little bomblets don't go off. They're duds. And they stay around. So, this is tricky for Ukrainians. It's tricky for the United States. And that will be a hard decision to make.
MATTINGLY: Ambassador Taylor, we learned yesterday that the U.S. ambassador to Russia met with detained "Wall Street Journal" reporter Evan Gershkovich. This is very hard for people to understand, one, because there is not a lot of public information, both because of how the Russian's operate but also because how - of how the U.S. government operates in these types of moments. And I think the concern amongst reporters, amongst Evan's friend, amongst those who believe and it has been made very clear that the allegations are fraudulent and aren't based in reality, that he kind of fades out of view. And that's a problem if there's not public sentiment continually pushing for this.
Can you take us behind the scenes, as a foreign service officer, what's happening in this moment inside the U.S. government as they try and work towards securing a release?
TAYLOR: So, Phil, it's not behind the scenes. It's not out of the minds of U.S. officials. The U.S. government, in all of its - all of its elements, is focused on getting him out. Wrongfully detained means he is a political prisoner. And they are looking for ways to bring him out, as they've done before. They've been successful. The U.S. government has brought people out before. They're looking for a way to do that. And the visit by the ambassador to the person who's wrongfully detained is one important way to demonstrate support for that person while he's being - while he's being detained.
MATTINGLY: All right, Ambassador Bill Taylor, thank you, sir, very much for sharing your perspective.
[06:50:01]
TAYLOR: Thank you.
MATTINGLY: Well, it's being called nature's Ozempic -- come on -- but could an herbal dietary supplement really cause significant weight loss? Our health team has a breakdown. That's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CORNISH: It's being called nature's Ozempic on social media, especially TikTok users claim the herbal dietary supplement, Berberine helped them lose weight.
CNN Health Reporter Jacqueline Howard joins us now.
All right, Jacqueline, first of all, is there any data to show that this could be effective when it comes to weight loss?
JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Well, that's the interesting thing, Audie, we really don't have clinical trial data that shows weight loss benefits when it comes to Berberine. Now, Berberine itself, it is a compound found in plants. And these are plants that have been used traditionally for thousands of years in medicine.
But when it comes to the evidence showing that it's truly what some people are calling nature's Ozempic, we don't have that scientific data. I did look at some studies. One study showed that Berberine was associated with a BMI reduction of 0.25 body mass index units. But in comparison, people taking Wegovy or Ozempic tend to show a 4.6 reduction in BMI. So, as you see, there's a big difference there in weight loss. So, we really need more data on this. That's the bottom line, Audie.
MATTINGLY: Yes, but, Jacqueline, let's be clear here, why do you need scientific data if you have TikTok endorsements? Joking aside. I think one of the big questions when anything like this kind of pops into the mainstream is, are there any risks here? Should people be cognizant of specific concerns before doing something like this?
HOWARD: Absolutely. So, people who are pregnant or breast-feeding should not take this. It should not be given to infants. And, of course, it could interact with certain medications. So, talk to your doctor if you do take Berberine. And then there are some common side effects, abdominal pain, vomiting nausea, constipation, that's important to keep in mind as well.
[06:55:05]
MATTINGLY: All right, Jacqueline Howard, thanks so much.
HOWARD: Absolutely.
MATTINGLY: Now we're going to take you to some dramatic video of a police pursuit showing a semi going the wrong way on a Texas highway that's -- with speeds topping 85 miles an hour.
Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's still -- he's straddling (ph) the shoulder on the southbound lane going northbound. We're going over 80 miles an hour.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: Now, the driver refused to stop, according to the Texas Department of Public Safety. Police say eventually the driver and several undocumented immigrants jumped out and tried to make a run for it. Twelve migrants were detained. Police arrested the driver, who's now facing multiple charges, including human smuggling and reckless driving.
CORNISH: Ahead, the details of a new lawsuit against Harvard University over its admissions process.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
