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Israelis Target Palestinian Militants In Largest Military Operation In The West Bank In Decades; How DeSantis Gained A Fan Base Among Some Suburban Women; Hot Dog Eating Champ Joey Chestnut Aims To Break His Record. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired July 04, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:30:28]

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: This just into CNN. Live images out of Tel Aviv, Israel where a car just rammed through pedestrians in what Israeli police are calling a terrorist attack. Police say seven people were injured at a Tel Aviv shopping center. Officials say the driver then proceeded to get out of the vehicle to stab civilians with a sharp object before he was killed by police.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, that's all unfolding as Israeli forces continue to operate in Jenin a day after launching its largest military operation in the occupied West Bank in more than two decades. The airstrikes killing at least nine people and injuring about 100 others, according to Palestinian officials. Israeli officials say it was targeting a militant command center as part of an extensive counterterrorism effort.

And joining us now is one of the foremost experts on the Israeli- Palestinian conflict, former State Department Middle East negotiator Aaron David Miller.

I appreciate you joining us, in part because you had made a point on social media a week or two ago -- I can't remember when it was -- about how this has kind of -- they're in a bloody cul-de-sac with no way out at this point in time. You could see this accelerating over the course of the last several weeks on the political, on the military -- on all the dynamics geopolitically as well.

My question is given the scale of the military operation underway, where does this go from here?

AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR, SENIOR FELLOW, CAMEGLE ENDOWMENT (via Webex by Cisco): You know, I make a lot of predictions and most of them, frankly, are wrong. The problem here I think is the notion of a cul-de-sac. You have -- you have three factors that are driving this train -- this very bloody, volatile, and tragic train.

Number one, you have a Palestinian Authority that is weak, divided, and simply unable to assume responsibility, particularly in the northern West Bank -- Jenin and Nablus.

Number two, you have the most right-wing fundamentalist government in the history of the state of Israel committed literally to pursuing policies, which they are doing now, to basically enact the West Bank in everything but name.

And third, you have a new phenomenon and to say informal groups of young Palestinians roughly between the ages of 15 and 25 in Jenin, in Nablus, supported, facilitated, and encouraged by organized groups such as Palestine Islamic and Jihad and Hamas, which are demonstrating a fierce determination to resist Israelis and to plan attacks in the West Bank and in Israel proper.

And the problem is that there doesn't seem to be any way to counterbalance this. The international community has checked out. Governing is about choosing with respect to the Biden administration. They have other priorities.

And it's hard to see this not necessarily blowing up to a third Intifada. There are reasons that I think may prevent that. But you've got a new normal here, which is -- which is this bloody (INAUDIBLE) when Israeli Defense Forces and armed groups are informal -- encouraged by organized (INAUDIBLE). None of this, frankly, is going to stop. It's a -- it's a veritable -- not a cycle of violence so much as it is deeply entrenched factors who, right now, are not vulnerable to (INAUDIBLE).

CORNISH: There's different context here. We talked about the Abraham Accords earlier, meaning different diplomatic ties for Israel. Also, Israel itself had been rocked by protests and people's concerns about its own government.

Do -- are there any other kind of unknown unknowns, right -- other kinds of factors here that could provide some kind of path out diplomatically or, at least, off-ramp from escalation?

MILLER: You know, it might take an external catalyst in order to at least create a pathway to try to calm the situation. But frankly, that would involve a very difficult choice on the part of the Biden administration.

You know, having worked for Republicans and Democrats, presidents don't like to tangle with Israeli prime ministers. It's messy, it's awkward. It could be very politically costly, particularly when in the -- in the administration's view there's very little that they could do in order to counter these deeply entrenched factors.

So I'm afraid, Audie, and this is hardly going to come as surprise -- as a surprise, that this situation in the West Bank and in Jerusalem, and perhaps in Israel proper is going to get worse, frankly, before it actually gets worse.

[07:35:02]

One final point. The prime minister is -- wants to pursue judicial reform -- judicial overhaul, essentially, and he's blocked. Protesters were at the Ben Gurion Airport yesterday demonstrating that preservation and (INAUDIBLE) democracy is a 24/7 proposition. It's a marathon. It's not a 100-yard dash.

And because it's blocked, he's rewarding the more extreme ministers who are in his own government. He's paying them in annexation as coin.

I think the IDF, the Israel Defense Forces, did not want to launch an operation that was this large. I think in large part, politics also colored the breadth and depth of what the Israelis are doing.

MATTINGLY: All right. Aaron David Miller, I really appreciate your time, sir. Thank you.

MILLER: Thank you.

CORNISH: Next, a group of suburban parents from across the country finding their political hero in Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis. They say his handling of the pandemic hooked them. But is his focus on culture wars threatening that support? A CNN report ahead.

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CORNISH: Florida governor and Republican presidential hopeful Ron DeSantis, like some of his rivals, will be hitting the campaign trail this Fourth of July. He'll be reaching out to voters in New Hampshire.

CNN's Elle Reeve recently spoke with a group of women, several of whom are lifelong Democrats, about why they stand with DeSantis.

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VANESSA STEINKAMP, TEACHER: If DeSantis were to run tomorrow he would win, and that would be such a hard pill to swallow I think for many people.

[07:40:02]

ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Back in 2021, Vanessa Steinkamp was the first person who told me she was a fan of Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and that there were more like her.

REEVE (on camera): When we first spoke to you in 2021, you mentioned that you had this group of mom friends that you met on Twitter who are just obsessed with DeSantis, and it just stuck in my mind for years.

STEINKAMP: He would just do stuff and say stuff with this conviction. We were all like thank you.

REEVE (on camera): Did you guys have a nickname for him?

STEINKAMP: Daddy DeSantis. I mean, it's all joking --

REEVE (on camera): Of course.

STEINKAMP: -- because we're like desperate women who had tried everything that we could do in our own power in our own communities and we weren't getting anywhere.

JENNIFER SEY, AUTHOR AND FORMER BRAND PRESIDENT OF LEVI'S: He was very vocal starting in the summer of 2020 about the need to open schools, in particular.

REEVE (voice-over): During the COVID lockdowns in 2020, these frustrated moms built an informal Twitter network of people angry about closed schools and the difficulty of remote learning. They were from all over the country but saw DeSantis as a model of what they wanted in their cities.

GOV. RON DESANTIS, (R) FLORIDA: School is a safe haven.

STEINKAMP: I mean, when I started advocating for kids to go back in person I was called a granny killer, a teacher killer, selfish on Twitter.

REEVE (on camera): On Twitter.

STEINKAMP: Oh my God, they were -- it was awful.

REEVE (voice-over): Steinkamp is a teacher in Dallas and warned early on that lockdowns would hurt kids, especially poor kids.

STEINKAMP: We can't forget our most vulnerable and we've just created the single-largest inequality generator in a generation by having some schools open and some schools closed.

REEVE (voice-over): On Twitter, Steinkamp connected with Jen Sey, then a Levi's executive who moved her family from San Francisco to Denver in early 2021 so she could send her kids to school in person.

SEY: We quickly sort of found a community online and I found it really interesting that she was a teacher that was advocating for in- person school.

In San Francisco, you could go to a bar or a strip club but my high school student couldn't go to English class.

REEVE (voice-over): Sey says she was forced out of Levi's in 2022 because of her COVID tweets, which the company told NPR undermined its own health and safety policies and sowed confusion among employees.

SEY: Ninety percent of what I wrote about was playgrounds and schools, and there's nothing embarrassing about that now.

REEVE (voice-over): There were several active group chats where the moms shared news about COVID and DeSantis. One grew to more than 80 people and they traveled to each other's homes.

Many had been lifelong Democrats, including Julie Hamill, who has three kids and lives near L.A.

REEVE (on camera): You voted for Obama.

JULIE HAMILL, LAWYER: Yes, we vote twice. REEVE (on camera): Clinton?

HAMILL: Yes.

REEVE (on camera): Did you vote for Biden?

HAMILL: Yes. I have never voted for a Republican presidential candidate. I have always considered myself very socially liberal. But as we became more vocal on Twitter we were really demonized.

REEVE (voice-over): In 2022, she ran for school board in Palos Verdes and won.

HAMILL: And I'm going to fight back.

REEVE (voice-over): And was an active defender of her Twitter friends.

They aren't crazy. Data from the Education Department shows kids have been hurt by long-term remote learning -- Black and brown students more than white.

In August 2020, DeSantis was early to open schools compared to other U.S. states, but not the world. Many European countries went back under national policies. In May 2020, for example, a Finland health official cited data that kids didn't play a significant role in spreading the virus.

But in the last two years, DeSantis has launched his presidential campaign and focused more on the culture war.

DESANTIS: We will make sure as president we leave woke ideology in the dustbin of history where it belongs.

REEVE (voice-over): The Twitter backlash they experienced made these women more receptive to parts of DeSantis' fight against wokeness, but not all of it.

REEVE (on camera): I'm wondering if you think that DeSantis' very public more on woke distracts from the message that you like about him.

SEY: A little bit -- I do -- yes.

REEVE (on camera): Because -- I mean, like, to be honest, I do feel like it would be really good to have a big public debate about what did we get wrong in COVID. Like --

SEY: The left doesn't want to have that debate. They're never going to allow that debate. I think there's a lot of kind of incendiary tactics being used to smear him. I think --

REEVE (on camera): He did sign a law that restricts transgender care for adults as well as kids.

SEY: I have greater concerns about the six-week abortion ban. REEVE (on camera): Tell me about that.

SEY: You know, I think if he made it clear that he's a state's right person and not -- and he's not looking to kind of pass a national law in this regard I would be less concerned.

REEVE (voice-over): Not everyone in their Twitter orbit agrees on his tactics but these three do think Florida's new six-week abortion ban is bad.

HAMILL: I think that's dangerous. That's something that I cannot get behind. And I don't think that's going to bode well for his presidential campaign. I think that might be a real impediment to bringing in moderate women.

[07:45:00]

REEVE (voice-over): None of these women like the idea of a 2024 rematch between Biden and Trump. They're open to voting for DeSantis but are not sold.

REEVE (on camera): So there's been criticism from Republicans that DeSantis is, like, too online. That his campaign is too influenced by stuff that's popping online but, like, isn't affecting people in their lives. So one struggling to pay their bills isn't thinking about pronouns.

Is it possible that's true?

STEINKAMP: Oh, I don't think so. I've been down all over Florida and you know what they all say? He helped my business open up. He helped my kids go to school. The media just fixates on the culture war pieces.

REEVE (on camera): Is it possible that you are too online?

STEINKAMP: Yes -- for sure in the beginning but not anymore. Do I need to fight with some random online? No.

HAMILL: I would love to be off Twitter but I feel like there are discussions that need to be had. For all the bad that comes with it, there is also a good. And I've connected with all of these like-minded women who are not outright demons. They're moms who have been unseen and unheard.

REEVE (voice-over): Elle Reeve, CNN, Dallas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: We've got our panel back with us, Natasha Alford and Joe Pinion.

I always love Elle's pieces. What was your takeaway from watching that?

JOSEPH PINION, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well look, I think you saw a snapshot of a man who built a broad nonpartisan coalition and then engaged in a legislative session that, in many ways, marginalized himself with many of the people that had come to count on him as their champion.

And so, you listen to people talking about the six-week ban. You listen to people talking about some of the things that happened in the legislative session that were supposed to be burnishing his record in anticipation of this launch.

And I think that's reflected in the numbers where you saw this was a man that, again, first Republican going all the way back to Jeb Bush to win Miami-Dade, Florida in 20 years is ahead of Trump in Iowa in December and about to be right on his heels nationally in January.

And now, you see where he is now, down 30 points. And I think it is because of some women like the ones you just heard from who feel as if the person that was their champion has now, in many ways, forgotten all the things that they liked about him.

CORNISH: Natasha, I've interviewed Moms for Liberty mothers and they were very radicalized by the COVID era.

This is a vulnerability for Democrats in certain respects. So what is the counter-messaging that they've developed?

NATASHA ALFORD, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, VICE PRESIDENT, DIGITAL CONTENT AND SENIOR CORRESPONDENT THEGRIO: Well, I mean, first, when I see that package I just think that there's always been women, in conservatives movements, in particular, who are approaching politics from a personal lens, right? But also, a lot of the women in that package were not women of color, right?

And so these women are coming from a privileged position in society and they don't like sort of being called out for that privilege. They don't like the ways in which they were -- you know, they say that they were attacked on Twitter but a lot of that is sort of a defensive reaction. And so, they found community in other women who feel the same way that they do.

But again, it's sort of finding people who will repeat back what you've already believed.

So, I --

CORNISH: But they're not lost to Democrats, right? They were just talking about abortion. They were talking about areas where they felt like well, we don't feel quite comfortable with x, y, and z that Republicans are saying. So is that not some kind of opening?

ALFORD: I think there's an opening. But also, I just think that if you are willing to support Ron DeSantis, who has been so extreme -- so harmful to so many different groups, right, whether it be students of color, efforts for diversity and inclusion in the employment sense. I mean, all of those things to me signal that there's potentially a lack of empathy. A lack of seeing sort of the coalitions that the Democratic Party tries to build. And so, again, I just think that many of those women reflect what we've seen in different moments in history in terms of women who come from a perch of privilege being unwilling to give up that privilege and trying to find a spokesperson who will back up, sort of, their experience.

MATTINGLY: All right, guys. Stay with us. We're hanging out the entire day, whether you like it or not.

Happening today, of course, Nathan's famous hot dog eating contest. Audie, you love -- no? OK. It's set to kick off in a matter of hours. The reigning champ -- back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back reigning champ Joey Chestnut says he plans to at least try and break his record of eating 80 hot dogs. Is that even possible? We will discuss -- get excited.

CORNISH: But before we go to break --

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Clip from Universal Pictures "E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial."

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CORNISH: A classic line from Spielberg. Now, the Mars Ingenuity helicopter has also phoned home to Earth. The little chopper took off April 26 but lost contact with mission control. But it finally called on June 28, setting aside concerns about the first aircraft on another world.

[07:50:00]

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR, "NEWS CENTRAL": In 2021, you set the record -- 76 hot dogs in 10 minutes. What are you shooting for in this one? Do you think you will win it again?

JOEY CHESTNUT, 15-TIME NATHAN'S FAMOUS HOT DOG EATING CHAMPION: I think I can -- I think I can pull off the win. And if the conditions are right and I find a mean, nasty rhythm, a record is possible.

BERMAN: Eighty, possible?

CHESTNUT: Eighty is possible. Oh, my gosh. I'm hitting practice and things would have to be perfect. And, you know, I'm not saying -- you know what? I'm -- it's possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: You know what? Those are two American legends -- John Berman, our colleague --

CORNISH: Yes, exactly. MATTINGLY: -- and Joey Chestnut, 15-time mustard belt championship holder of the Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest.

I think he had 63 hot dogs in 10 minutes --

[07:55:00]

CORNISH: Ten minutes.

MATTINGLY: -- which for Elie is like Tuesday, to some degree. And I'd love to see it happen. And it's a little bit gross, I think, to some degree.

CORNISH: Yes, yes. So we brought in a panel of legal experts --

MATTINGLY: But we want our panel of really

CORNISH: Political experts.

MATTINGLY: -- smart, political, and legal people to weigh in, which is, is the record of 80, Natasha -- because I know you've spent a lot of time thinking about this -- his preparation, whether or not we could get there. Is the record possible today?

ALFORD: I think that if you put your mind to it, if you've done it before you can do it again. I come from Upstate New York where we have, like, Hoffman's hot dogs, so that is our thing.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK, FORMER FEDERAL AND NEW JERSEY STATE PROSECUTOR: Yes.

ALFORD: And I know that if you love hot dogs enough -- if you love the taste enough you can push through and probably break that 80.

HONIG: So, Mr. Chestnut, as he should be referred to --

MATTINGLY: Yes.

HONIG: -- did sound a little doubtful in that interview whether he could hit 80. I mean, 76 --

CORNISH: That's your sort of inner prosecutor talking.

MATTINGLY: We showed the chart --

CORNISH: Yes.

MATTINGLY: -- of progression and why, like, this is --

CORNISH: Let's look at -- check the data.

MATTINGLY: -- a professionalized between Kobayashi and Joey Chestnut. In 1990, the winner had 15. In 2000, 25. In 2010, 54 -- the start of the -- the prime of the Kobayashi era.

CORNISH: Yes, exponential growth.

MATTINGLY: Seventy-five in 2020.

CORNISH: That's pretty amazing.

ALFORD: Where did he --

HONIG: I feel --

CORNISH: People find methods.

HONIG: Yes. I think we've reached the limits of human capacity on this one.

CORNISH: Have we, though?

MATTINGLY: Joe, is this disgusting or is this a wonderful American tradition?

CORNISH: It is easier to go --

MATTINGLY: Well, I lean toward the latter in a very sharp manner.

PINION: Yes.

MATTINGLY: But I can see the other.

PINION: I think there was more palace intrigue when we had the kind of international element.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

PINION: Was America going to retain the title as the Nathan's --

MATTINGLY: Yes.

PINION: -- Hot Dog epicenter of the world?

Look, I don't know. I can't imagine eating 76 hot dogs in a month, much less in 10 minutes.

CORNISH: Oh, well -- we will help you because we have a graphic that gives you a sense --

MATTINGLY: This is actually --

CORNISH: -- of what is the ideal body type.

MATTINGLY: Can you possibly be awesome at this? According to this, you need -- and this is a credit to The Washington Post --

CORNISH: Yes.

MATTINGLY: -- short neck, long torso, wide rib cage, wide build.

CORNISH: Yes. ALFORD: See, this is --

MATTINGLY: Kids, if you're watching this and you see this --

CORNISH: Exactly.

MATTINGLY: -- pursuit in the future.

I did like the -- when Chestnut overtook Kobayashi --

HONIG: Yes.

MATTINGLY: -- and it was like America --

PINION: America's back.

CORNISH: Yes.

ALFORD: I've seen basketball players do it.

(CROSSTALK)

CORNISH: This is not how I pictured our America First policy discussion but I'm here for it.

MATTINGLY: You kind of are, though, right?

CORNISH: Yes.

MATTINGLY: It's a little -- it's a little nicer, gentler, and we're winning still. And I appreciate that because that's what it's all about.

HONIG: The best quote, by the way, from the interview. Mr. Chestnut said, quote, "I am not at all anti-vegetable." So --

CORNISH: Oh. Well --

ALFORD: He's going to need vegetables.

PINION: He did a vegan cleanse.

CORNISH: He's definitely going to need some salad leave after this, so he's in luck.

MATTINGLY: All right, guys, stay with us. We appreciate you having some fun with us. We've got a lot more coming up in the next hour.

For the moment, though, a live look at Des Moines, Iowa and Plymouth, New Hampshire. Several Republican candidates are sweeping those states today. We're going to talk about the big ideas some of the candidates are pushing, like -- including ending birthright citizenship and raising the voting age.

CORNISH: And later, just days after the Supreme Court gutted affirmative action from higher education, Harvard is facing a challenge to its legacy admissions process. We'll have more ahead.

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