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Israeli Strikes in Jenin; Ivan Espinoza-Madrigal is Interviewed about Ending Legacy Admissions Spied on Inside West Virginia State Police Academy Locker Room; Lucrative Year for Made in America Products; George Motz is Interviewed about the Great American Burger. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired July 04, 2023 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He has called - for a (ph) much harder against who he calls terrorists. He has called for the death penalty for terrorists.

Now, what we know so far regarding the attacker is that Hamas has claimed that attacker as one of its fighters. Keep in mind that after this on - as - was part of this ongoing operation in Jenin, in the occupied west camp (ph), the Israeli military is still there. Hamas has called on all of its members - we're being pushed away (ph) by police here. Hamas has called on all of its members to strike Israel wherever they can. And we have confirmation now that this driver of this car, who then tried to stab pedestrians, is a member of Hamas. Hamas, the militant group, claiming him as one of their fighters in the last few minutes. Police calling this a terror attack. And it seems as though Hamas, when they were praising this attack saying that it's in direct relation and in direct response to what has been happening in Jenin over the last two days, Jenin still an active military operation according to the Israeli military, and they say that they will be there now for at least another day, potentially even longer, guys.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Hadas Gold, live on the scene in Tel Aviv. Take care of yourself, your photojournalists. We appreciate the reporting, Hadas.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up, on the heels of the Supreme Court's affirmative action ruling, advocacy groups are now taking aim at legacy admissions at Harvard. We'll speak to one of the people taking action, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:35:21]

CORNISH: Good morning.

Harvard faces a new challenge to its admissions program, this time over legacy seats. It comes on the heels of last week's Supreme Court decision to end affirmative action policies at colleges and universities. In a complaint to the Department of Education, a civil rights group alleges Harvard's process discriminates against students of color by giving an unfair boost to the mostly white children of alumni, which the suit claims violates the Civil Rights Act. In part the complaint reads, for the period of 2014 through 2019, the acceptance rate for donor-related applicants was approximately 42 percent, or about seven times higher than the acceptance rate for an applicant with no donor relation.

Joining us now is executive director for the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights and Economic Justice, Ivan Espinoza-Madrigal.

And first I want to talk about this complaint. It almost feels inevitable given how people started to talk about legacy seats in the aftermath of the affirmative action ruling. What is the goal here? Are you trying to get back to the Supreme Court?

IVAN ESPINOZA-MADRIGAL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, LAWYERS FOR CIVIL RIGHTS: Thank you very much for having me this morning.

And just to clarify my organization, we branded a few years ago, we are just Lawyers for Civil Rights and we're based in Boston and happy to be bringing this important case on behalf of students of color who will be disproportionately excluded and affected by the recent development in the Supreme Court. Last week the Supreme Court gave us a narrow but exceedingly narrow opportunity to move forward with race- conscious admissions at colleges and universities in the Harvard case. This week --

CORNISH: Ivan, I want to jump in here. Are you saying that -- were you looking at that ruling and seeing an in to talk about legacy seats?

ESPINOZA-MADRIGAL: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I'm looking at that ruling and seeing that universities be going to go back to adjust what they're doing to be in compliance with the latest Supreme Court guidance. And in this new landscape it is critical for us to push for the elimination of doner-based and legacy-based admissions preferences. It's nearly 28 percent of the class at Harvard. If we didn't have it, more students of color would be there.

MATTINGLY: Ivan, can I ask, you -- in the complaint I think there's kind of six requests or six specific asks of the Department of Education in terms of an investigation into the admissions practices, certain declarations related to legacy preferences. Is that kind of how you seek to resolve this? What's the pathway forward in terms of trying to address what this complaint brings to bear?

ESPINOZA-MADRIGAL: The most important thing here is to find ways to make sure that students are not being assigned preferences, given bonus points, given extra consideration based on --

MATTINGLY: Right. But which - which ways are you thinking? Like --

ESPINOZA-MADRIGAL: With - with their donor status. With their alumni affiliations. That's how they're getting the preferences.

MATTINGLY: No, no, I understand that. Which ways do you want to try and address that based on, you know, the six that were laid out in the complaint, or do you want, to Audie's point, try and take this up to a higher court at soum point? What's kind of the process here I guess is what I'm asking.

ESPINOZA-MADRIGAL: We are going to eliminate the ability of students to identify a donor affiliation or family affiliation so that they can get brownie points to get into Harvard. That is unfair. It's also discriminatory. Where currently in the Department of Education, if we are to do this work and do it right, we also have to keep all legal options on the table, including going into federal court, going into other advocacy and other types of protections that will allow students of color to thrive on college campuses despite the Supreme Court's best efforts.

CORNISH: We heard from the Yale admissions director a few months back saying that the government should not intrude on shape and culture and character of a campus that they consider this opening the door to other kinds of intrusion. How are you starting to think about that kind of pushback from schools going forward?

ESPINOZA-MADRIGAL: As the Supreme Court has noted, the importance is the ability to have access to the admissions process without preferences. That is precisely what we are doing here. We are taking the Supreme Court at its word. There should be no preferences. Particularly preferences that run along donor and legacy lines, which is not merit-based.

[08:40:03]

Let's be clear, your last name or the size of your bank account are not merit, should not be a part of the admissions process, and yet nearly one-third of Harvard consists of these students, students who would otherwise not be there. That excludes other students. It excludes even low-income students. It excludes students of color. We're talking about fairness here.

And if the Supreme Court is going to eliminate or try to significantly reduce race-conscious admissions as part of a holistic process, it is critical that we also assess barriers and structures that benefit overwhelmingly white people and white affluent people at that. It is the donors. It is the legacy affiliations which have to be eliminated if the Supreme Court wants an even and level playing field. We need to play fair. And that means bringing an end to the type of bonus and preference that is given to rich students and students with family affiliations.

MATTINGLY: All right. Ivan Espinoza-Madrigal, I think this is going to be a pretty important issue a lot of people are watching going forward. Appreciate your time, sir.

ESPINOZA-MADRIGAL: Thank you very much.

CORNISH: Now another story. A hidden camera system was discovered inside the women's locker room at the West Virginia State Police Academy. CNN sat down exclusively with two of the women who say they were spied on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRENDA LESNETT, WEST VIRGINIA LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Every female that has gone through that academy, civilian or for law enforcement training, is a victim.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: How many we talking here?

MEGAN TALKINGTON, WEST VIRGINIA LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: There could be thousands.

LESNETT: Possibly hundreds -- hundreds if not thousands.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:45:50]

CORNISH: And now a CNN exclusive. The West Virginia State Police is being accused of fostering a culture of misconduct towards women in its ranks, including the placement of a hidden video camera inside a women's locker and shower room. The revelation coming in a newly filed civil lawsuit. The suit alleges that male officers at the police training facility looked in on the women over a decade.

CNN's Brynn Gingras sat down exclusively with two of the women who claim they were spied on.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MEGAN TALKINGTON, WEST VIRGINIA LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: That's all I wanted to do my entire life was to be in law enforcement. And now that, you know, I'm going on 13 years this year and I -- I can't even view law enforcement the same as I have.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Meghan Talkington and Brenda Lesnett, active law enforcement in the state of West Virginia, their dream job, but now everything has changed.

TALKINGTON: I don't want my daughter to walk the halls of the West Virginia State Police Academy. Not unless there's reform from top to bottom.

GINGRAS: Both women now suing the agency that trained them after an anonymous letter written to top state officials, including the governor and lawmakers, went public in February alleging widespread misconduct within the walls of the West Virginia State Police Academy, including a hidden camera system inside the women's locker room.

BRENDA LESNETT, WEST VIRGINIA LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: I was shocked to hear that that happened. I was completely appalled. And the more I thought about it, the angrier I got. Sitting here today, I still feel exposed. And I'm constantly wondering who's going to see me next? who has already seen me? It's very nerve-racking.

GINGRAS (on camera): Those thoughts are just constantly in your mind? TALKINGTON: Yes, am I going to have to deal with this the rest of my life? Ten years from now, is this going to show up on the dark web, on the regular web? I don't know.

LESNETT: Every female that has gone through that academy, civilian or for law enforcement training, is a victim.

GINGRAS: How many we talking here?

LESNETT: There could be thousands.

TALKINGTON: Possibly hundreds -- hundreds if not thousands.

TERESA TORISEVA, ATTORNEY FOR WOMEN SUING WEST VIRGINIA STATE POLICE: It's a hostile, misogynistic, toxic environment that not just male dominated, it's anti-women.

GINGRAS (voice over): Attorney Teresa Toriseva represents about 70 women who have similar allegations, including minors who took part in a junior program at the academy.

GOV. JIM JUSTICE (R-WV): I don't know how - how in the world many things could be much, much worse than that.

GINGRAS: The state doesn't dispute a camera existed. This is how Governor Jim Justice publicly addressed it in March.

JUSTICE: There was three troopers that found a thumb drive and absolutely from that they found the video. And then, from what I understand, one, if not all, you know, immediately jerked the thumb drive out and threw it on the floor and started stomping on it.

GINGRAS: Justice replaced the head of the agency and pinned the act on a high-ranking academy official who died in 2016.

GINGRAS (on camera): You don't think he was the only one responsible?

TORISEVA: Common sense tells you he wasn't the only one responsible. It just doesn't make sense. It doesn't add up. And it feels like you're blaming somebody who can't speak for themselves.

GINGRAS (voice over): Toriseva's team names three current and former state police employees who they say are responsible for the recordings in a recently filed civil lawsuit. The first in what will be a long list of similar civil actions taken.

GINGRAS (on camera): It's a risk you guys are taking to file a lawsuit while you're still working. What do you fear?

TALKINGTON: I fear retaliation. I feel - I fear Brenda and I are going to have a target on our backs.

GINGRAS (voice over): There are two open state investigations.

JUSTICE: We are going to clean it up. GINGRAS: Where those stand, unclear. We reached out to Justice's

office and the West Virginia Department of Homeland Security and got no response. The state police said no comment. Officials haven't reached out to alleged victims either.

TORISEVA: Crickets.

GINGRAS (on camera): It's disheartening.

TORISEVA: It is outrageous.

LESNETT: I feel like this hasn't been taken seriously. I think that there needs to be more investigation, a more thorough investigation. And I think that we all want answers.

GINGRAS (voice over): Brynn Gingras, CNN, Charleston, West Virginia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Important reporting from Brynn there.

Now, we also have a new retail survey that "made in America" means actually paid in America.

[08:50:05]

Why being patriotic is paying off.

CORNISH: Plus, we're going to bring you the secret to grilling the perfect burger. Burger scholar George Motz will join us live, next.

MATTINGLY: Cannot wait. Have some burgers.

And a reminder, CNN's July 4th special returns tonight with an all- star lineup. Watch CNN's "The Fourth in America," live at 7:00 Eastern on CNN.

We'll be right back, with burgers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: I think it's safe to say flags, Americana, very popular on Independence Day. Audie, you have American flag shirts, pants, other things.

CORNISH: I do. Yes.

MATTINGLY: But where are these items actually made? That might be even more important. According to a new survey, American-made products are actually having their best year yet.

Let's bring in CNN's Rahel Solomon.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, guys.

MATTINGLY: Why? SOLOMON: So, what it seems to be is that people are prioritizing U.S.

jobs, where they're created, where they're protected -- protecting American jobs. So, this report from "Morning Consult" essentially says that when asked why you buy American, that's what people site, U.S. jobs. Sixty-five percent of U.S. consumers say that they actually prioritize buying American over the last year.

[08:55:00]

What's interesting is that when you look under the hood of this, you actually see some interesting trends among political affiliations, among different age groups. So, Republicans tend to be slightly more enthusiastic than independents and Democrats. Baby-boomers more -- more patriotic and spending more American than some of the other groups.

What I thought was really interesting is that despite the last year with higher prices, of course, which we've talked about so much, with higher rates, the demand for American has remained steady.

Really quickly, Jason McMahon, who runs political analysis at "Morning Consult" said, despite the hit to consumers' wallets, that purchasing made in America goods can entail due to their higher input costs, the share of those seeing out goods such as - from a foreign-made equivalent, rather, has held steady over the past year. So, there's that.

I will say there is a bit of a sweet spot. Ten percent is about the limit that people are willing to spend more for American versus foreign-made goods.

MATTINGLY: Interesting. All right, stay with us -

CORNISH: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Because this is -- I've been looking forward to this.

CORNISH: It is also made in America, hamburgers.

MATTINGLY: I'm very excited. I actually brought - brought my own book.

CORNISH: Nothing says July 4th like hamburgers on the grill.

And so joining us here, of course, is George Motz, who is a burger scholar, which is an official thing from the hamburgler university (ph) here.

And so talk to us a little bit about the proper July 4th burger. What are the sort of key things for what you have deemed the hamburger architecture.

GEORGE MOTZ, AUTHOR, "THE GREAT AMERICAN BURGER BOOK": Oh, architecture is very important because - I mean, first of all, we want to keep it simple. People tend to think, oh, you've got to put a lot of ingredients on there, lots of, you know, condiments and keeping it simple is the most important way to create a great burner. And also, if you have to make a lot of them, you're talking about more ingredients, it gets too - it gets too complicated when you have too many ingredients. So - and it's very important to make sure you're ready to cook also, which is important. Now, people forget about that. You know, you have to make sure you have all the stuff ready to go and so you can cook and make magic.

MATTINGLY: Um -

CORNISH: Wait. So, wait, we have a -- we have - that's a helpful tip there about what's going on. Does it matter like what bread, what lettuce? Like do you have thoughts about that?

MOTZ: No, I mean, to me, you just have to keep it simple. Fresh - fresh meat is very important. Fresh meat is important. Also American cheese. There's nothing wrong with American cheese. American cheese is designed - it's engineered to melt on a burger. It's very important.

MATTINGLY: The smash burger is kind of having a moment right now.

MOTZ: Sure it. People think it's a new trend.

MATTINGLY: But it's not.

MOTZ: No, it's not at all. It's been around for - that's actually -

MATTINGLY: I read it - I read it in your book.

MOTZ: You read it in my book. Thank you.

SOLOMON: He's an avid reader.

MOTZ: It's actually -- it goes back to the dawn of the hamburger. In the beginning, the hamburgers were made by smashing ball -- little balls -- portioned balls of meat. So, people think it's a trend. It actually is the original way to make a hamburger. And it was designed based on speed.

CORNISH: I was fascinated by the idea that you said it's the method, not the ingredients that makes the like madness.

MOTZ: Exactly.

CORNISH: And you pointed out a poached burger.

MOTZ: It's - yes, exactly.

CORNISH: Which sounds horrendous. Like is that boiled meat? What's the situation there?

MOTZ: Well, it is, actually. Think about it, it's cooked in water. But the water is also - there's a place in Prairie du Chien, Wisconsin, called Pete's. And Pete's, they take a ton of cut onions and throw it into the water. So it's kind of like an onion water. It's basically - it's a poached burger. It sounds a little odd, but it tastes fantastic.

CORNISH: It works?

MOTZ: Oh, it's actually - definitely. Absolutely. Once you have all that - all that rendered beef fat floating in the water, I mean you can't go wrong.

MATTINGLY: Right.

SOLOMON: So, I know simplicity is key, but I have to wonder, what's the most popular burger? So I'm -- I'm not about the simplicity. I'm about the caramelized onions, the blue cheese, the mushrooms.

CORNISH: Messy. Messy.

SOLOMON: Like, let's just -- let's just put it all on there. But what tends to be most popular?

MOTZ: The most popular for sure is just meat, bun, cheese. That's it. And then you can do whatever you want at that point, but pretty much all you really crave - and what I call the daily beat, or the one you're going to want to go -- return to is the - is the meat, bun, cheese.

CORNISH: Yes, well, we want to drag you into the culture wars, which is what we do here. So, there have got to be some controversial toppings, OK?

MOTZ: Oh, yes. Sure.

CORNISH: I said blue cheese. This guy gave me a hard time in my email and so.

MATTINGLY: No, I - I'm not into blue cheese. It was the mushrooms. Like, I'm not a mushroom guy.

MOTZ: People like mushrooms on burgers.

CORNISH: Mushrooms are amazing. It's like a umami situation.

MATTINGLY: Which is not a personal thing. Actually, it's we put - yes, because here's Audie's burger. You're looking at Audie's burger.

MOTZ: OK.

MATTINGLY: Bun, blue cheese, mushrooms and burger patty.

CORNISH: OK, my burger looks so much better than that. Let me just say.

MATTINGLY: There's mine, bun, pickles, burger patty.

SOLOMON: Wait!

MOTZ: There you go.

MATTINGLY: First off, you didn't put what I had up in my burger.

CORNISH: See, to me -

MOTZ: Ketchup now (ph). Put ketchup --

CORNISH: Oh, thank you on the ketchup.

MOTZ: No ketchup.

CORNISH: Thank - OK, so give me the deal.

MATTINGLY: No ketchup. But why? Why?

MOTZ: If people like ketchup on a burger that's fine. I don't personally like it. It's just too sweet.

MATTINGLY: It's just what grew up with.

CORNISH: Oh.

SOLOMON: It sort of cuts the blue cheese. The ketchup is what gives it that like - that sweetness, you know, that - that cuts the blue cheese, that cuts the -

CORNISH: No, fail. This is your max minimalism showing right? You're just like putting it all on there.

SOLOMON: This is my over the top.

MATTINGLY: Can I ask before we go, if you're prepping the grill and you're thinking about making burgers, you said architecture, simplicity. Is there any other one tip that people have to know before they put on their American flag bandanna and their, you know, (inaudible) champions t-shirt.

CORNISH: And clean the grill.

MOTZ: Yes. People - actually cooking over a flame grill is one of the hardest ways to make a burger. One of the easiest ways to make a burger is on a flat top. So if you really have a - you know, you're having trouble, you know, getting the burger temperature correct -

MATTINGLY: Yes.

MOTZ: I say take a flat - take a - like a skillet and put it onto the grill and then cook - cook - you slide it off into the hot spot and the cold spot and just cook it inside of a pan on the grill and you -- you will not fail.

CORNISH: You solved a lot of problems here, George Motz.

MATTINGLY: You're welcome, America. George Motz. The book is "The Great American Burger Book."

[09:00:00]

CORNISH: Yes, thank you.

MATTINGLY: We appreciate it, sir. Happy July 4th.

CORNISH: Yes.

CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

MATTINGLY: Thanks for hanging out. CNN NEWS CENTRAL does start right now.

CORNISH: I don't know how you beat the burger.

MATTINGLY: Have a wonderful Fourth of July, folks.

CORNISH: Thanks, folks.