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Prigozhin Met with Putin after Mutiny; Russia's War Looms over NATO Summit; Lawmakers Race to Meet Deadlines. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired July 10, 2023 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The 29th of June, Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, met with 35 Russian commanders. Among them, Yevgeny Prigozhin, the boss of Wagner. And apparently they discussed not only the so-called special military operation in Ukraine, what we call the full-scale invasion, they also, according to Peskov, assessed the events of the 24th of June.

Now, let's not forget that on the 24th of June, when that mutiny was taking place, President Putin called the mutiny treason. And here he is, five days after that, actually meeting with the man behind that treason.

Now, of course, since the 29th of June, there have been a lot of questions, now that we know they met on the 29th of June, where Prigozhin actually is. People thought he was in Belarus. Then the president of Belarus, Alexander Lukashenko, said, no, he's in St. Petersburg, maybe he's going to Moscow. So, this situation in Russia, which was already mind-boggling on the 24th of June, is only getting more mysterious.

Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, it was very much an eyebrow raising wait, what, kind of news. And I think tied to that is the appearance, or at least purported appearance via video of Valery Gerasimov, one of the two military leaders, Sergei Shoigu being the other, that Prigozhin really targeted by name repeatedly and over the course of that insurrection. What does the video, and the release of that video, actually tell us about his place in things at this moment?

WEDEMAN: Well, Valery Gerasimov is the chief of the general staff at the defense ministry and he's first deputy defense minister. And as you said, he was the brunt of Prigozhin's anger for months and months. He accused them of not providing enough ammunition and now he has appeared, for the first time since that mutiny, he was being briefed on what appears to have been a Ukrainian attempt to fire cruise missiles at that strategic bridge linking Russia and Crimea.

There were rumors yesterday that he had been dismissed or demoted. But here we see Gerasimov back in public again. We cannot verify when this video was shot, but it does appear that he's being reintroduced to the Russian public in his normal capacity. So, as I said, events in Moscow keep everybody guessing. Phil.

MATTINGLY: Yes, a soap opera, a great way to put it. Ben Wedeman, doing great reporting on the ground in eastern Ukraine, also trying to keep track of what's going on in Moscow. Thanks so much, Ben.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, quite the turn of events there.

Well, boos at the All England Club after Belarusian Victoria Azarenka lost in a three set match Sunday to Elina Svitolina and didn't shake hands with the Ukraine. But there may have been some confusion in the crowd as to why before the tournament. Svitolina said publicly that she would refuse to shake the hands of any Russian or Belarusian players because of the ongoing war in Ukraine. As Azarenka, instead, gestured to her opponent, something she said was out of respect. And in a postgame interview, Svitolina wiped away tears as she spoke about the war at home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EVINA SVITOLINA, UKRAINIAN TENNIS PLAYER: Back home there's lots of people are watching and cheering for me. So - I was just thinking, you know, there is tough times in Ukraine and, you know, I'm here playing in front of you guys and, you know, I cannot complain. I just have to fight and try to - to win every single point. And in the end, you know, I've -- here I am, you know, won the match. So, really thank you so much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And on a brighter note, a happy ending. After Svitolina vented on social media that her Wimbledon win streak forced her to sell her tickets to see Harry Styles in Vienna over the weekend. Well, Styles returned her serve with an invite to any of the four remaining shows on the tour and wished her well in the tournament.

Congress back in session today with a long to-do list with little time. We're going to break down the looming deadlines on the agenda.

Plus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think there is unanimity in NATO about whether or not to bring Ukraine into the NATO family now at this moment in the middle of a war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: That was President Biden saying it's premature to allow Ukraine to join NATO as Russia's war continues. How this will affect the alliance, coming up next.

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[06:39:00] BROWN: President Biden, moments ago, wrapping up his meeting with British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak ahead of tomorrow's big summit with NATO leaders in Lithuania. It was the sixth meeting between the two world leaders. Biden just left 10 Downing Street. He is now headed to Windsor Castle to meet face-to-face with King Charles for the first time since his coronation.

Critical meetings with NATO leaders just a few hundred miles from the fighting in Ukraine. Russia's war posing the biggest threat to global stability for the alliance in recent history. And perhaps the most difficult questions at the summit will be about a pathway for Ukraine to joining NATO.

Listen to what President Biden told Fareed Zakaria.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think there is unanimity in NATO about whether or not to bring Ukraine into the NATO family now at this moment in the middle of a war. For example, if you did that, then, you know, we - I - and I mean what I say -- we're determined to commit every inch of territory that is NATO territory.

[06:40:04]

It's a commitment that we've all made no matter what.

If the war is going on, then we're all in a war. You know, we're at war with Russia if that were the case. So, I think we have to lay out a path for - the rational path for Russia - for -- excuse me, for Ukraine to be able to qualify to get into NATO.

But I think it's premature to say -- to call for a vote, you know, even now because I -- there's other qualification that is need to be met, including democratization and some of those issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining us now, CNN military analyst and retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.

So, as we look ahead to this week, tell us more about these key issues on the table.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, Pamela, good morning.

The big issue, of course, is the one that's kind of taking the air out of the room, is Ukraine's path to membership. This is going to be the key thing that they're going to be discussing. Are they going to actually make this work?

Then you have Sweden's succession to NATO. That's another country that is trying to enter the NATO alliance for the first time in its history. And then, of course, the type of assistance that we will actually be providing to Ukraine. Whether the west provides certain weapons, such as ATACMS, and F-16s. That's pretty much a done deal. But the ATACMS isn't. So there are a lot of things that they're going to do. And, of course, over this you've got the whole issue about the cluster munitions.

MATTINGLY: Colonel Leighton, the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, told our Erin Burnett in an exclusive interview that giving Ukraine an invitation to NATO would be an important motivation for Ukrainian soldiers, for the Ukrainian people. Do you think that's true, the idea that putting that out there as a distinct possibility with a clear pathway would have a tangible effect on the fight right now?

LEIGHTON: I do, Phil. And - and the reason I think that is because one of the key things that you - that you actually have here is, you know, what do you do with the rest of the world and how are these particular issues going to be part of the way in which each one of these areas actually, you know, is used in this. So, when it comes to the moral compass that you actually need to make this work, you need to be able to have a path forward for this.

I do believe that it's very important, from a moral standpoint, that Ukraine be allowed to enter the NATO alliance and that the pathway be very clear in this case.

MATTINGLY: And, Colonel, I do want to ask you, because right now behind you on the screen you have the countries banning cluster munitions. That have been a decision that is met with some controversy that the United States decided to provide Ukraine with cluster munitions. Obviously, there's more than 100 countries that are signatories to a declaration against those -- using those munitions. Kind of lay out the why here, why the United States decided to move forward with this.

LEIGHTON: Yes, so, Phil, the big issue here is the countries that are banning cluster munitions are all the ones in red right here. It goes all the way from Australia, to Canada, to countries in South America and in Sub-Saharan Africa, as well as Europe.

Now, the countries that don't ban cluster munitions include the U.S., North Korea, Russia, Ukraine, China, Turkey and Iran. So, these countries are, you know, part of a group that still is using these weapons. And the reason they're using these weapons is because they don't see an alternative.

Now, when it comes to what's happening in Ukraine, we don't see an alternative because the defense industrial base has actually not kept pace with the munitions needs that Ukraine has. They -- if they don't use cluster munitions right now, they will run out of munitions, and that's the argument that President Biden is making and why he believes that the United States has to offer cluster munitions to the Ukrainians at this point in time.

BROWN: All right, Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you for laying it all out for us on this Monday morning. We appreciate it.

LEIGHTON: You bet. MATTINGLY: And for more on what we're watching at the NATO summit, which starts tomorrow, joining us now is former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, William Taylor. He's Vice President of the Russia and Europe Center at the U.S. Institute of Peace. Also with us, CNN contributor and staff writer for "The New Yorker" and Biden biographer Evan Osnos.

Evan, I want to start with you.

President Biden, you know, if there's one area where I think foreign policy is certainly something that he has some expertise in over his five plus decades working in Washington with in the U.S. Senate, vice president and now president. But I think when you talk to his national security team, what they've been able to do in terms of NATO, in terms of strengthening the alliance over the course of the last year plus, has been, I think, one of the cornerstones of this administration. What do you think this upcoming summit means for his presidency and I think to some degree for kind of the western alliance at this point?

EVAN OSNOS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, as you say, this has been a big piece of his personal agenda and also his public image as a leader of the United States that he's been involved not just in foreign affairs but also in Ukraine. I remember going with him in 2014, when he was in the vice presidency, to Ukraine. He was already working on issues at that point.

Right now he's got three goals, really, over the course of the next three days. One is, number one, to make sure that Ukraine still has the support from member countries that it's been getting over the course of the last 15 months.

[06:45:06]

Number two, make sure that NATO is strong and that it reaffirms its commitment to doing something about staying involved in this war. But, number three, it's also about avoiding a direct war with Russia. And you can't understand any one of those three -- you can't understand his thinking about Ukraine's membership in Ukraine without keeping all three of them in mind. It is, as he said in his interview with Fareed Zakaria the other day, he means what he says when he says that he's concerned about a direct war with Russia and that moving too fast in his mind on Ukraine could put the United States and other member states into a position they don't want to be in.

BROWN: Yes, and, you know, the NATO alliance has remained remarkably strong since this war began, right, but, of course, there have been a lot of challenges, lots of tests, the recent decision by President Biden to send cluster munitions to Ukraine, as so many of U.S. allies have signed -- been signatories banning cluster munitions, including U.K. where the president is right now. And there's this looming issue, of course, of Ukraine joining the NATO. The president said he doesn't want to go to direct war with Russia. That any membership with Ukraine would happen after the war.

But there's also the argument being made that Putin is weakened right now and that this might be the time. What do you say? AMB. WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Putin is

weakened. There's no doubt. The alliance is strong. And the president is, of course, right that now immediately this week is not the time for Ukraine to join NATO because they are in a war. The Ukrainians say that. President Zelenskyy says that. Now is not the time. The question is, what's the pathway? How do you get there? Because they -- everybody -- the NATO alliance in particular is almost unanimous here that the NATO alliance will accept Ukraine in. Will invite Ukraine in. And so moving in that direction, what are the path -- what are the steps on that path to get there? That's what they're looking for right now.

MATTINGLY: When you listen to the president speak it's clear -- you can hear kind of the outline of the path forward, particularly long term on defense assistance, democratization issues, which I think still very much though need to be addressed to some degree within the country. Do you think they come out of this summit with a clear kind of roadmap?

TAYLOR: I think you'll see that. I think what we'll see this week is the way -- they put words together and the words will add up to a pathway. And it will be a good signal to the Ukrainians that they will come out encouraged by whatever words they come up with that will lead to eventual membership. That they'll come up with because, again, the NATO allies, most of the allies are there. They are even farther -- leaning far more forward than we are. So, I think President Biden will hear that when he's there and they'll come up with a good - a good method.

BROWN: All right, we'll be watching all of it very closely.

Ambassador William Taylor, Evan Osnos, thank you.

Well, Congress returning from the holiday recess today as lawmakers scramble to meet crucial deadlines before August recess. What's at stake?

MATTINGLY: And a 14-year-old girl went missing. Now a U.S. Marine is in custody. Where on the base did police find the teen and what more we're learning. Stay close, we'll be back with more.

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[06:52:24]

MATTINGLY: You're looking live at the U.S. Capitol Building in morning. Lawmakers staring down several major deadlines as they returned from their July 4th recess. They're face a potential government shutdown this fall if they can't agree on annual spending bills.

Also back from his July 4th recess, CNN congressional correspondent -- chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju is here.

Hi, Manu. I feel like we do this after July 4th every single year.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

MATTINGLY: There's no path forward. They have to find a path forward. Usually they find a path forward eventually.

RAJU: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Will they this time?

RAJU: That's a big question here. Remember, they have to fund the government by the end of September. And the real challenge is the deal that was reached that Kevin McCarthy cut with the White House to raise the national debt limit. Under that deal, they agreed to spending levels that the House and the Senate would agree upon.

There's a problem, though. A group of hard right Republicans essentially rejected that agreement and they have the power, given the narrowness of the House Republican majority, a handful of members can certainly hold up the process. And as a result, despite a deal that was being reached on the overall spending levels, Kevin McCarthy was forced to acquiesce to the demands of the hard right members who cut federal spending even more.

This is the real challenge because Senate Republicans are opposed to the levels that Kevin McCarthy has agreed to with the hard right of his conference. So now he's got to reach an agreement, not only just among his own members, get it through the House, but also get Senate Republicans on board. And they are tens of billions of dollars apart on how to cut spending and how to deal with spending levels on a wide range of programs, which is going to make things incredibly difficult. And if Kevin McCarthy were to compromise and go beyond the levels that the hard right wants, they have that weapon that he agreed to back in the speaker's race back in January where any single member could call for a vote seeking his ouster as the speaker, which raises the challenges for him internally, as well as trying to simply do the basic job of governing and funding the government. So, a lot of challenges and hurdles ahead as Congress returns from recess today.

BROWN: I see why you took this last week off, gearing up for -- for the battle ahead.

RAJU: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

BROWN: All right, so, I've got to say this surprises me that senators are set to receive their first ever briefing, classified briefing, on artificial intelligence. I mean it wasn't that long ago when you had leaders in the space saying that artificial intelligence could pose an existential threat to humanity. And now they're getting their first briefing just now?

RAJU: Yes, look -

BROWN: And what's the House doing on this?

RAJU: Not a whole lot. I mean there's just -- Congress is typically slow to deal with a lot of these issues. But this is a huge priority for Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer. He has put together an outline of how he wants to regulate, suggesting how to deal with the growing concerns over artificial intelligence. That is just generally broad strokes.

[06:55:00]

He needs to fill in the details here. And he has begun to have a number of public, non-classified briefings with senators to talk about these issues.

You're right, tomorrow will be the first time there will be ever a first-time classified briefing. And what is driving these concerns from Chuck Schumer is how China is dealing with artificial intelligence and the concerns of the Chinese Communist Party is essentially ahead of where the United States is on this issue. So, there is a hope among the Senate - the Democratic leader that they can get an agreement or at least get some political will to regulate this very complex issue. But as you know, as we head into an election year, it's going to be incredibly difficult to get both sides on the same page on this, get it through the House, get it through the Senate, get it signed by the president. But the Democratic leaders and the Republican leaders recognize this is an issue, but how they deal with it is a big question.

BROWN: Yes. Time is of the essence, though, because, you're right, China is trying to become the leader. Russia is trying to become the leader of AI. And there's a big race right now for that.

MATTINGLY: A big race. He's rested. He's ready.

BROWN: He's right.

MATTINGLY: Senators, beware, around the corner, Manu Raju is lurking.

BROWN: Yes, he's ready to go.

MATTINGLY: Thanks, buddy, for coming in.

RAJU: Thanks. You got it.

MATTINGLY: All right, well, torrential downpours stranded drivers and a state of emergency. Details on the historic flash flooding in New York.

BROWN: Plus, right now, President Biden is heading to Windsor Castle for his first meeting with King Charles III since his coronation. We're going to have live coverage of the president's trip as it continues.

So, stay with us. We'll be back.

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