Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

Critical Defense Bill in Jeopardy After House GOP Inserts Amendments Transgender Care, Abortion, Diversity; After GOP Passes Abortion and Transgender Care Legislation, House Considers Additional Defense Bill Amendments; January 6 Grand Jury Hears Testimony from Jared Kushner; Trump's Request to Postpone Classified Documents Trial Criticized by DOJ; Strike by Writers and Actors Against Studios and Streaming Services; Interview with SAG-AFTRA National Secretary/Treasurer, and Actor, Director, Singer, Writer, Activist Joely Fisher; Actors Join Writers In Strike Against Studios, Streamers; More Than 100M Under Heat Alerts As Heat Wave Intensifies; House Adopts Controversial Amendments As Defense Bill Passage Hangs In The Balance. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired July 14, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A woke military is a weak military.

REP. JOYCE BEATTY (D-OH): I'm old enough to remember when black officers, when women were not allowed to serve. You are setting us back.

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): We need to spend more time ensuring that we can protect the homeland and less time on pronoun training and the rest of this nonsense.

REP STEVEN HORSFORD (D-NV): What are you so afraid of? Why do you keep bringing these divisive issues to the body of this floor? You are out of order. You are exhausting, Mr. Gaetz.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gentleman is no longer --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, good Friday morning, everyone. The good news for all of those lawmakers you just saw, they get to reconvene in about an hour and start voting again a little bit after that, because they are in the midst of a very heated, very long-winded, and very consequential debate that's ongoing right now about that defense service policy bill we've been talking about the last couple of hours.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And it's become the latest battle ground in America's culture wars after House Republicans passed several controversial amendments on abortion, transgender, health care, and diversity programs in the military. So, we're going to break down the latest of elements as lawmakers prepare to reconvene just one hour from now.

MATTINGLY: And Special Counsel Jack Smith piercing Donald Trump's inner circle. The former president's son-in-law and Senior White House Advisor Jared Kushner testifying before the grand jury investigating Trump's efforts to overturn the election. The key question he was asked.

BROWN: And Hollywood going on strike. For the first time in more than 60 years, actors are joining writers for an industry-wide shut down. This hour of "CNN This Morning" starts now.

MATTINGLY: Well, good Friday morning, everyone. And new this morning, the critical defense bill we've been talking about taking center stage in America's culture wars, not just its defense policy. Late into the night, House Republicans narrowly passing several controversial changes to the annual Defense Authorization Bill. They include measures to eliminate the Pentagon's diversity program, restrict access to abortion in the military, and prohibit house coverage for gender transition surgeries and hormone treatments for transgender troops.

Now, just one hour from now, the House is set to reconvene, shortly thereafter consider more amendments after a very long night of heated debate and voting. Top House Democrats are vowing to oppose the bill which has been for six decades, a pilar of bipartisan agreement and serves as a cornerstone of U.S. defense policy.

Let's bring in CNN Congressional Correspondent Lauren Fox for the latest. I want to spin this forward a little bit. We've been talking throughout the course of the morning about what happened last night, and that plays into moving this forward. But this bill, for six decades, has passed on a bipartisan basis. It guides U.S. defense policy. What is the future here because it looked a little daunting last night?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, the first thing that the House has to do is actually pass this bill. And Kevin McCarthy is, obviously, going to be seeing whether or not all the controversial amendments that he gave his members votes on are enough to hold his conference together. We expect that likely will be.

But we're going to get a little bit of a glimpse on where the House Freedom Caucus is this morning because they are going it have press conference. We expect that most Democrats are going to peel off and not support this NDAA despite the fact that it passed out of committee with bipartisan support, probably just a handful of five to seven Democrats would back it.

Then the Senate has to pass their own version of this bill, which we expect to happen over the next several weeks. Then they'll got to conference and they'll have a discussion. And as one Republican said to me last night, the expectation is that once this bill comes back to the House it's going to look a lot like that bill that first passed out of the House Arms Services Committee a couple of weeks ago, Phil.

MATTINGLY: I like the Lauren Fox house (ph) bill becomes a law on Capitol Hill recitation (ph). I do want to ask you really quickly though, I was talking to a senator last night who literally was, like, if they want to do -- a Republican senator, about House Republicans saying, if they want to go down this path in terms of breaking way from the bipartisan committee product that came out, that's their choice. That just means that they're going to have to eat what we pass, that's paraphrasing a little bit. The word, eat what we pass was definitely in there. True?

FOX: Yes, I think that that is always the risk. You know, Kevin McCarthy and Steve Scalise would argue that if you are going to have a conference with the United States Senate, then you want to show the strongest conservative bill that you can pass over in the House, so that gives you a stronger negotiating hand.

[08:05:00]

But it also can put you in a position where you look unreasonable when you come to actually negotiating with the U.S. Senate, and I think that that is probably exactly what that member is insinuating to you.

MATTINGLY: And frankly, probably, hopes that that's the way it goes.

FOX: Exactly.

MATTINGLY: Senators don't really like the House guys, right? Lauren Fox, thank you very much.

In about 15 minutes, we're going to speak with Minority Whip Katherine Clark about how Democrats are planning to fight against the bill. Are they willing to let the Military Authorization Bill fail to kill the amendments? We'll ask.

BROWN: And this morning, Former President Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, becoming the latest member of Trump's inner circle to testify before the grand jury investigating Trump's effort to overturn the 2020 election results. Sources say, some of the questions were about whether Trump was told he lost the election. Former Trump White House Aide Hope Hicks also testified early last month.

Joining us now to discuss is CNN Senior Legal Analyst Elie Honig. It's really interesting because, Elie, these interviews, our understanding is from our reporters, happened recently, just in June. What does that tell you about where this investigation is and the status of it?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY, AND FORMER FEDERAL AND STATE PROSECUTOR: So, Pam, first of all, this tells me that Jack Smith is talking to everybody at all level, including Donald Trump's inner circle, including Donald Trump's family members, Jared Kushner, his closest advisors, Hope Hicks, as Jack Smith should. His job here is to get all the information, all the facts, and to not be shy about going and questioning people who were close to Donald Trump. The other thing it tells me is, if you think about the checklist of relevant witnesses here, those are two more important names that are checked off. And I think it's getting, sort of, hard to think of an important relevant witness who Jack Smith's team has not yet spoken to.

MATTINGLY: You know, Elie, the reporting that -- CNN reporting that Kushner was asked about Trump and acknowledging that he lost, whether or not he did or did not, why would prosecutors be focused on that particular question?

HONIG: Because we prosecutors are obsessed with intent, because you have to prove intent in any case, and because it can be difficult. And if you think about, sort of, the levels here that prosecutors would like to see, the best possible evidence that you would want as a prosecutor here of Donald Trump's intent is if he acknowledged that he lost the election. We have heard there has been pieces of testimony from our colleague Alyssa Farah Griffin, from General Mark Milley, and others that Donald Trump, at times, did to varying extents acknowledged that he lost.

The second-best evidence you can have is evidence that he was told in a persuasive way that he lost, that's not as good because there's going to be other people we know who told him that he actually won. But still, you can argue the reasonable inferences off of that as a prosecutor. And then the important thing to keep in mind is even if Donald Trump actually believed he won the election, there are still things that you cannot do. You can't threaten an election official, for example. But proving that intent is crucial and it's difficult, and the way you get it is you talk to people who were the closest to your subject.

BROWN: I want to ask you, Elie, the special counsel's opposing Trump's efforts to delay the classified documents trial, some pretty strongly worded language in this court filing. Of course, Donald Trump's lawyers have argued it should be postponed. That there is, you know, presidential campaign going on. Who do you think has a stronger leg to stand on here with this -- their arguments?

HONIG: Well, DOJ's motion that they filed yesterday is hot on the rhetoric, but I think a little short on substance. I'll give you an example, one of Donald Trump's legal team's arguments is we've been given 800,000 documents, we have an obligation to go through those. You're telling us we need to be ready for trial in five months. DOJ yesterday says, yes, we did give them 800,000 documents, and yes, there are more coming, but we've told them which 4,000 are the most relevant. That doesn't answer the issue.

The defense lawyer still have an actual obligation to go through all of those documents. And by the way, it's not up to the prosecution which documents are most valuable to the defense. So, it's a weak response, to me, from DOJ. The other thing is, Trump says, there's never been a case, a classified documents case forced to trial in six months. He gives examples of cases that have taken three years to get to trial. DOJ does not offer up any counter example of any import there. BROWN: All right. Elie Honig, thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, this morning, Hollywood's $134 billion industry running to a total halt for the first time since 1960. Actors and screenwriters are both on strike. This means, production from any films and TV shows on hold. Meaning you could be in for a lot more reality shows, game shows, and reruns. So, expect to see any of your favorite stars promoting their projects.

The Actors Union says, it wants a deal to improves wages, benefits, and limit the use of artificial intelligence. The TV and film studio say, they offer the highest pay increase in 35 years and offered a proposal to limit A.I.'s impact. The studios also offer that their profit margins are shrinking and that it's a fragile time for their business. President, SAG-AFTRA, Fran Drescher, not buying it.

[08:10:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRAN DRESCHER, PRESIDENT, SAG-AFTRA UNION: I cannot believe it, quite frankly, how far apart we are on so many things. How they plead poverty that they're losing money left and right when giving hundreds of millions of dollars to their CEOs. It is disgusting. Shame on them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And joining us now is Joely Fisher, the National Secretary and Treasurer for SAG-AFTRA, former president of the union, she's also an actor, director, singer, and writer. Thanks very much for your time. I think -- I've been looking at this from, I think, to some degree, consumer perspective, but also business perspective and followed labor negotiations on several different industries over the course of the last couple of years.

There's a new dynamic right now in terms of labor versus business on some of these issues. But the first thing I want to start with is, our understanding was there is, kind of, the last-minute offer made by the alliance and Motion Picture and television producers before the deadline. What in that offer, specifically, was a non-starter? Was there anything in there that you though got things closer, at least?

JOELY FISHER, SAG-AFTRA NATIONAL SECRETARY/TREASURER AND ACTOR, DIRECTOR, SINGER, WRITER, ACTIVIST: There -- it wasn't a last-minute offer. I'm on the negotiating committee, I have been for a couple of months. We listened to members in what's called the W and W process. And we listened to what everybody cared about and what they needed, and their hopes, and their fears, and their dreams.

And we put together a proposal package that didn't leave anyone out. There is 160,000 members of our union, and I want to fight for all of them. It's not just people screaming from ivory towers, movie stars and things like that. We have background artists, we have stunt performers, dancers, singers, broadcasters. And we did a very thorough combing through of -- and really tried to leave no one out, and then we went to our plenary and put together a really massive, aggressive proposal package. Brought it to the AMPTP and started to, sort of, like I said, comb through and see which things they were amenable and which things they weren't.

And it was devastating. It was, like -- like, Fran says, shocking and disgusting. I was really -- you know, my mother, Connie Stevens, was the secretary treasurer at Legacy SAG. And I never -- I can't imagine her doing what I did, like, for the past month.

MATTINGLY: In what sense?

FISHER: We went before -- it's a very -- it's designed -- well, it's -- the process of going before the AMPTP and going, please, sir, could I have some more? You know, it's a very -- it's designed to really belittle you and demean you and disrespect you. And there are things that are, you know, maybe there are some giant asks and then maybe there are some just common sense, humane things that for the cost-of- living increases that we haven't had, you know, things changed since 1983 when I joined the union.

Nothing changed in certain base pay minimums since 1983. I'm sorry, but the world is a very different place right now and you can't have a family or a mortgage. You can't be a journeyman middle class actor and have this as your career. You have to have two side hustles.

MATTINGLY: Can I ask, you know, I think --

FISHER: So, the -- oh, the last offer --

MATTINGLY: Yes? Go ahead.

FISHER: Well, I was going to stay that it is a back-and-forth process. So, the last offer was after we had generously given them a 12-day extension. So, we did go back and forth across the table, and the we would wait and we would go through what they countered, and then they apparently would go through what we countered. And then the last-minute offer was shit, frankly. It was nothing. It -- they hadn't come forward on anything.

And so, it was insulting. And it was, like, this is what you took 12 extra days to do? This is what you're going to come up with? And the A.I. proposal was abhorrent. So, they keep saying -- I mean, you know, I know who is putting out their communications, and it's -- shame on them. Shame on them.

MATTINGLY: Can I ask, you know, one of the things -- you make a really good point in terms of this is a different world right now for the folks that you have been talking about, that you've been in part representing at the negotiating table. But it's also a very different world for the people you are negotiating with or, to some degree, against, I guess, at this point. I want to play something that Disney's CEO, Bob Iger, had to say about some of the things that you guys have put on the table. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BOB IGER, DISNEY CEO: There's a level of expectation that they have that is just not realistic. And they are adding to a set of challenges that this business is already facing that is, quite frankly, very disruptive. So, you also have to be realistic about the business environment and what this business can deliver. It is and has been a great business for all of these people, and it will continue to be even through disruptive times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Your response to Mr. Iger's position?

[08:15:00]

JOELY FISHER, SAG-AFTRA NATIONAL SECRETARY/TREASURER: I heard disrupt -- I heard disruptive. I heard that we were uncivilized. I heard that, oh, it's been very lucrative for them and will continue to be and its bullshit. There are people that are making hundreds of millions of dollars, they are profiting on our backs. And if we want a tiny little sliver of that ongoing, it is not unreasonable, it is not.

You know, I've been doing this for 40 years. I can't believe I'm saying that. But yes, I have. And my parent union is Actors Equity. We make -- we make funny and sing songs and perform on a stage since the beginning of mankind and entertain you and tell stories. And if we're going to continue to do it on stages, and on screens, little and small. We have a consumer base, we have -- we have -- we have taught people, we're training them to look at things for like a couple of seconds, and then shove it across, you know.

MATTINGLY: Right.

FISHER: Like, they change like France, as they change the business model. You're looking at six, eight, 10, maybe 10 episodes or something for three or four seasons. And then, they shove it to the side and put something else on. It used to be lucrative Bob Iger, where it was -- when I was at, on Ellen or Til Death or, you know, at Disney where we did 22, 24, 26 episodes. And then, we continued to share in the profits with something called residuals that is going away. We're not doing those long seasons and we're not --

MATTINGLY: Right.

FISHER: -- in your living rooms. Night after night, after week, after month, after year. So, it's not unreasonable and it's not disruptive. It is righteous, and it is just for us to make sure that the 160,000 people that we represent, participate in very meaningful way in the profits that you're all enjoying on your yachts in can.

MATTINGLY: Joely Fisher, very clearly, he did personal but also life.

FISHER: I'll never do it again.

MATTINGLY: It's just -- I think you'll be fine. (INAUDIBLE) for fan but I'm a less supporter of that generally not on camera. But so, for all good, I appreciate your time, I appreciate the perspective very much. This is a very significant moment both on labor discussion certainly, but also, for you guys in your industry. Thanks for your time.

FISHER: Thank you.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Impacts all of us who consume this work. Well, this morning, more than a hundred million people are under heat alerts as a dangerous weekslong heatwave across the western U.S. is about to grow worse. Temperatures and parts of California and Arizona are expected to rise above 120 degrees Fahrenheit in the coming days. CNN's Lucy Kafanov live in Scottsdale, Arizona with more. So, how hot is it Lucy, where you are?

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, it's a chilly 95 degrees right now but when the sun is fully up, it's expected to hit 115 and it is intense. It's the kind of temperature where, you know, you turn on the cold water in the bathroom and warm water initially comes out of the tap. If you're standing on the pavement for too long, it feels like the soles of your shoes are starting to melt.

I learned that the hard way yesterday. We're also expecting the Mercury to soar past 118 over the weekend. And when you get to temperatures like that or higher. I mean, you could see disruptions at the airport. This heat can also chill, it's deadly, it's dangerous, that's according to the city's first ever hits hour, take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID HONDULA, DIRECTOR, PHOENIX OFFICE OF HEAT RESPONSE: Unfortunately, in our region, and many thousands more all across the United States. Heat is fatal, it is something that the public needs to take seriously and it can impact everybody, nobody is immune.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAFANOV: And on these really hot days, even small mistakes can have grave consequences. We spent the day yesterday with the Children's Health Hospital in Phoenix and they were warning not just about heatstroke and heat illness for children. But also, how quickly a child could get injured or died if they are left alone in the car for even a short period of time. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Parent's think is that it's never going to happen to me, I would never forget my kid and the vehicle. But that is actually one of the biggest mistakes that parents think, not believing it can happen, it can happen to anybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAFANOV: And most folks are trying to stay indoors. We spent the day yesterday with a mom-and-pop air conditioning company that was running around the city trying to install units they were selling them faster than they could restock them. Business is booming for them and, of course, so many people also not fortunate enough to have access to air conditioner. And so, the city has opened up nearly 200 Possibly more than 200 cooling and hydration centers for those who don't have an air-conditioned home to escape the heat from, Pam?

BROWN: All right. Yes, I see why you say it is a chilly 95 degrees when you look at how bad it's going to get. Wow, Lucy Kafanov, thank you so much. Well, the Secret Service concluded its investigation into cocaine found at the White House, why the case is closed without a suspect ahead.

[08:20:02]

MATTINGLY: And Democrats and Republicans locked in a standoff over controversial social amendments added to the critical National Defense Bill. Number two Democrat in the House, Congresswoman Katherine Clark, Massachusetts joins us to tell us she's (INAUDIBLE) she's planning to vote. How the rest of the Democrats are planning to vote.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And just hours from now, the House is expected to take a final vote on a critical National Defense Bill. After lawmakers voted yesterday to adopt several controversial amendments pushed by conservative hardliners. Now, one of the proposals would make it harder for service members to travel to seek abortions. House Democratic leaders stating overnight. They plan to oppose the bill known as the National Defense Authorization Act. Republicans, meanwhile, are making their case for attaching these social policy priorities and a Defense Bill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): Look at this administration that has turned the Department of Defense into a social engineering experiment wrapped in a uniform. The American people I talked to back home, don't want a weak military. They don't want to woke military. They don't want rainbow propaganda on bases. They don't want to pay for troop sex changes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining us now you just heard well, we're going to hear from her, the number two House Democrat Congresswoman Katherine Clark of Massachusetts. Thanks for coming on. So, I guess the first question is, are you formally whipping the vote?

REP. KATHERINE CLARK (D-MA): Let's look at how unprecedented this situation is. We had the National Defense Bill, that came out of committee just a few weeks ago with a nearly unanimous vote. A by partisan bill, as is the tradition in Congress and we have the GOP, who said we are going to scrap that bipartisan bill, put a big you are not welcome sign out in front of our military bases, to women, people of color, LGBTQ, and create a bill that is extreme. [08:25:17]

So, there has been an unprecedented response from Democrats, where we have the ranking member, Adam Smith, saying he will now oppose this bill. We have Democrats who have never voted against the National Defense Bill, who will not be voting for this bill. Because it has been taken hostage by the extremists in the GOP.

BROWN: So, let me go back to what I -- are you whipping the votes?

CLARK: So, we've come out and said as leadership, we are opposed to this. And our caucus is standing strong with the American people.

BROWN: Is that so, that's a, no? Let me ask you, though, because for some Democrats in swing States, right? Or moderate Democrats, this could be really tough for them. How are they going to go if they -- if they vote against it? How are they going to go back home, talk to their constituents about the fact that, you know. They voted against the bill that would give five percent, for example, raises to military members who are struggling on food stamps and struggling to pay their rent. Do you know how many Democrats will actually vote in favor of this?

CLARK: I mean, we're going to see how many Republicans, can they pass this bill on their own. This is a bill that they have taken from bipartisan that's focused on our National Security, that is focused on getting those pay raises. This is work that Democrats did, making sure that our military families have the housing they deserve. Taking away a copayment for contraception. These are democratic priorities and issues.

So, it is very difficult to vote against those, to vote against this bill, that is not easy. But what we've seen is this bill has been transformed into an extremist manifesto. And so, we're going to continue as we have done. When we were in the majority, put the American people first and what they need. And what they need is a strong military. And we know that this bill is going nowhere in the Senate because it is disgusting and outrageous. So, we will have a chance to work with the Senate and bring a National Security bill back that we can support.

BROWN: You say the Republicans have turned this bill into an extremist manifesto. They say that they're trying to put the brakes on a Biden administration that's trying to inject progressive policies into every area of the government. I want to listen to what Republican Congressman Ronny Jackson, the author of the proposal says about this Pentagon's policy on abortion access, let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. RONNY JACKSON (R-TX): The taxpayer money is going directly to support abortions, and anyone in this chamber that says differently is blatantly lying to the American people. Taxpayer funding of travel for an abortion is in fact taxpayer funded abortion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: What is your response to that?

CLARK: My response to that is this is another step in their march towards a National Abortion Ban. And we are telling service women in this country, we're telling our military fight for our freedom, but you don't get freedom. You don't get the freedom to make your health care decisions. You don't get the freedom to make those decisions with your family, your doctor and in accordance with your faith.

So, the message here is outrageous to women service members. They're saying you are not allowed to travel for the health care that you need, while you are serving our country defending liberty. And that's why we've seen this issue be so wildly unpopular with the American people in election after election and poll after poll. Because the American people understand, this is fundamentally taking away their liberty. This is an assault on freedom, and they didn't just stop with abortion. They went right down the line saying that we have, you know, that diversity is not a strength but a weakness. The American people don't agree with that. They know that's a strike.

BROWN: That's strike and even a diversity and inclusion programs and the --

CLARK: That's right and putting out outrageous amendments saying we should go back and rename our bases for Confederate leaders who took up arms against the United States of America. I mean, I really cannot overstate how divisive and how racist and misogynist this bill has become. As we have seen, Speaker McCarthy capitulate once again to the extreme elements of his party.

BROWN: All right, Congresswoman Katherine Clark. Thanks for coming on, sharing your perspective in this quickly unfolding situation. Thank you.

CLARK: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: We're learning more about singer.