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American Man In North Korean Custody After Crossing Border; Rep. Elissa Slotkin (D-MI) Joins CNN This Morning; White House Slams Tuberville For Holding Up Military Promotions. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired July 18, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So there are other U.S. servicemen who have defected to North Korea. Some of them have really interesting stories. Some of them ended up appearing on North Korean movies playing the evil Western character. So it's not always a life of gloom and doom if these people do end up staying in North Korea. But that was back decades ago. It's a very different situation now between North Korea, South Korea, and the United States.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Like I said -- actually, Will, I do have one more before I let you go. The kind of announcement of this or the notification of this came from a tweet from the United Nations Command.

In terms of how things work there on the ground as somebody who has been there and has had experience kind of in this area and in dealing in this very kind of opaque space, the United Nations Command -- what's their role here? How do they kind of serve as middle ground or to some degree, a conduit at this point?

RIPLEY: What they're going to do is they're going to try to find a friendly intermediary country that still has a diplomatic presence in Pyongyang but that is not going to be easy because most of them pulled out during the pandemic.

Because essentially, the situation was there is no banking system to speak of in North Korea, so the way that foreign operations will operate is they basically carry in -- they hand-carry in suitcases full of cash. But when the border was closed during the pandemic the bills kept coming but they didn't have anybody who could actually go in and carry cash and bring cash. So one by one, countries started closing their diplomatic operations and there are no fewer diplomats, fewer foreigners, fewer NGOs.

North Korea and its people are more isolated today than, arguably, they have ever been in their entire history of 70-plus years of the existence of North Korea because all of the foreigners who were kind of forced out during the pandemic -- the government has imposed incredibly new stringent measures to try to prevent people from fleeing to the south. They've bolstered border security. They've tightened these surveillance state apparatus that was already incredibly strong. And so people inside North Korea are literally living in this kind of black box of isolation from the rest of the world. It's a very, very difficult time to try to get a message in or out. That said, there's email, there's phones. Those things still work.

And so people are going to be using backchannels trying to find a way to start talking about this American and how to resolve it. And I can guarantee the North would like to resolve it as well. This is kind of a pain in the neck for them -- not something that they asked for. They just kind of had this thrust upon them.

MATTINGLY: All right. Will Ripley for us in Taipei. Priscilla Alvarez for us on the north lawn of the White House. Guys, keep us posted as you learn more. We're definitely going to be coming back to you again.

The breaking news that we're following right now -- a U.S. national has crossed the military demarcation line into North Korea during a joint security area tour. That's according to the United Nations Command via tweet. We're going to have more on this as we get more reporting throughout the course of this morning.

And we're also going to be speaking with former CIA analyst and Michigan Congressman Elissa Slotkin about this. She's going to join us here live coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:37:27]

MATTINGLY: Turning back now to our breaking news. A U.S. national is believed to be in North Korean custody.

We want to bring in Congresswoman Elissa Slotkin from Michigan. She's a member of the House Armed Service Committee and former CIA analyst who worked alongside the U.S. military during three tours in Iraq.

And Congresswoman, there's a lot I want to get to with -- to you on related to what's going on on Capitol Hill, but I want to start with this because you noted you had been to this area I think in 2021. What's your sense of what this means or what it could mean and, I guess, the plausibility of accidentally walking across this line?

REP. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): Yes. I was there with a congressional delegation -- a bipartisan congressional delegation in 2021. It is one of the most constrained areas of the world. I mean, it -- again, these are all first reports so no one really knows what's going on, but it's hard to imagine that someone just sort of mistakenly wandered off and then got grabbed by the North Korean side.

You are looking at them. They are trained on you. You know exactly where the border is. And these tours are designed to show you just how rigid the security is.

So it seems like a really strange story to me and -- but we'll have to see what happens. It just seems odd. MATTINGLY: Yes, and we're getting more reporting as we speak. Our

reporters are kind of working the phones. This is just starting to develop right now.

I do -- on the U.S.-North Korea relationship, we were talking last block -- constantly talking to White House officials saying we're -- the door is open if they want to talk. There has been no engagement. Obviously, they have continued to escalate very aggressively their missile launches and tests.

SLOTKIN: Yes.

MATTINGLY: What's your sense right now of not the U.S. relationship with North Korea but just North Korea generally and what they're trying to accomplish?

SLOTKIN: I mean, North Korea -- we all know that they -- there are sort of ebbs and flows of how much sort of noise they make. We do have a pretty unusual event going on where we have a port call of a ballistic ship that's happening in South Korea, which we know has agitated them.

But my sense is they're a country that is deeply in poverty and gets attention when they have bad behavior. And the bad behavior is something that they periodically insert into our lives and we just have to manage it. But it is interesting to me that these things are happening around the same time.

MATTINGLY: Later today, you are going to be part of a hearing on artificial intelligence and how it affects the U.S. military and I think some adversaries as well. And this has been kind of topic one on Capitol Hill, which is fascinating because Capitol Hill is not really known for technology or figuring out a way how to manage it.

But the question of the military application of it right now and trying to find the balance, what's your sense of the amount of AI that's being utilized right now by U.S. forces compared to adversaries?

[07:40:05]

SLOTKIN: Well, we know that we're investing in artificial intelligence. We just were negotiating a bill on the Pentagon budget and so we know the amount that we're investing. But typically, in the last few years, China has been investing 10 times what we've been investing so it definitely gets our attention, it definitely gets our focus, and that's why we're having a hearing today.

I think what is the problem is you can have all the hearings you want but the folks who are testifying from the industry -- they want regulation, they want oversight, but they don't know how to do it in a way that doesn't constrain the industry. They -- they are saying please regulate us, which is very strange for a group from Silicon Valley. That's not usually what we hear. But we don't know exactly the right way to do it. And so, we've been trying to educate ourselves and get smart but there's no way around the fact the future of warfare in the world is going to be powered by AI and less about hardware, ships, planes, and more about technology.

MATTINGLY: You mentioned the scale of the investment of China versus the United States. Has that had a tangible effect in terms of forced posture, in terms of forced capability, or is it just something that they're building towards right now and the U.S. doesn't have a lot of insight into it?

SLOTKIN: Well look, if you're the Chinese military and you say look at the United States. I mean, the most capable military in the world -- more ships, more planes than we could ever catch up to have. So how do we leapfrog? How do we jump a few generations? Technology, cyber, space. They're deeply investing in space technology and artificial intelligence helps them do that.

And so, we're watching them leapfrog in a way that if you're a military person you're saying this increases our vulnerability. How do we make sure we keep up?

So it's going to affect everything but it's certainly affecting the ability of a military like China and catching up to American capability.

MATTINGLY: Another issue that's going on this week in the House -- the issue of Israel has come up. It has been an issue that has often fractured your caucus to some degree -- not right down the middle. It's a smaller segment on one side.

But I guess my question is, right now, one, do you believe Congresswoman Jayapal has done enough in terms of kind of walking back the statement that she made about Israel being a racist nation?

And two, there's going to be a vote proposed by -- a resolution introduced by a Republican today basically stating that. Are you going to vote for that? Do you believe that that's problematic for your caucus and for your party?

SLOTKIN: So, it seems like every week when we come back over -- from the weekend there's just a lot of inflammatory rhetoric that's just being thrown around that sort of leaders often forget that people are watching and they take their cues -- leadership climate is set at the top.

So I obviously didn't agree with Rep. Jayapal's statements. She walked them back. We also had some crazy inflammatory statements yesterday about the connection between COVID-19 and Jewish people for someone who has been invited to testify in front of Jim Jordan and the Judiciary Committee.

So I put out something that just said, like, can we just cool it on the rhetoric? She apologized. She called and reached out to me.

And we have a statement -- or that we're going to -- or a resolution that we're voting on. It's very simple. It's three paragraphs. It's about support for Israel. So I'll be voting for it.

But everyone just needs to tone it down on Capitol Hill because the whole country is watching and taking their cues from us.

MATTINGLY: You make an interesting point. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. was invited to testify to a judiciary select subcommittee on Thursday.

Kevin McCarthy, the Speaker of the House, was asked yesterday -- look, if this is the issue -- if antisemitism or concerns about antisemitism is an issue, how are you plausibly going to have Robert Kennedy come testify? And he responded, "I disagree with everything he said," telling reporters, "but I don't think censoring somebody is actually the answer here."

SLOTKIN: Yes.

MATTINGLY: What I guess I'm trying to figure out is there's a difference between censoring somebody and inviting them to testify at a hearing.

Have you had any indication that Republicans are uneasy about that testimony on Thursday?

SLOTKIN: No, which is a part of the problem. And when they're -- when they're screaming and pointing at the other side because of perceptions of speech that don't -- wasn't right, you sort of say well, guys, just have an even balanced hand with it. If you're going to call out something on one side, call it out in your own caucus as well. And that's a good lesson for everybody in Congress.

I think it's a signal of how broken Congress is. That we just don't sort of have that even hand and say nasty rhetoric should be pushed back on no matter who it is. We basically say well, if it's my side it's OK, but if it's the other side it's like the end of the world. And this is just part and parcel of just how tense and sort of zero- sum the whole debate has become and it's not what the country wants, like, deserves. It's just -- it's exhausting for the country.

MATTINGLY: I want to ask you before I let you go -- we don't have a lot of time left.

Your -- you have put your name out there to be a candidate to move across the Capitol to the United States Senate. Huge fundraising number. The national Democrats very excited about your campaign. You do have a challenger in Hill Harper, activist -- former actor who has come in.

[07:45:01]

What's your sense of the race right now, now that Hill Harper came in this month?

SLOTKIN: Well, there's a lot of people in the race and just to be fair to everybody, I think there are five other candidates. So -- and this is our system. You know, we're a democracy and so everybody gets to compete. Six years ago today I was just starting out and running for the first

time. I never had thought about running. So I don't have a problem with anybody deciding to run and the voters are going to get to decide. That's our system.

MATTINGLY: All right, Elissa Slotkin. Thanks so much, Congresswoman. Appreciate your time.

SLOTKIN: Thank you.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: All right. The White House is slamming Republican Sen. Tommy Tuberville for holding up military promotions, but how are his constituents in Alabama reacting? We'll take you there next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I'm pro-life and I'm a conservative, but I really don't believe that he should hold up military promotions.

RET. COL. JAMES HENDERSON, ALABAMA GOP PARTY OFFICIAL: I'm certain that he would not compromise nor do I think he should.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: A cascading effect of delayed promotions threatens to brain drain from the military. And military families do not know where they will lie, where spouses will work, where children will go to school.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Well, that was White House press secretary Karine Jean- Pierre slamming Republican Sen. Tommy Tuberville for holding up military promotions. The Alabama senator has blocked hundreds of nominations and promotions over a Pentagon policy that provides aid to members of the military who travel out of state to obtain abortions.

CNN congressional correspondent Lauren Fox is here. And Lauren, you just got back from Huntsville, Alabama. You talked to some of the senator's constituents about his stand. What did you learn?

[07:50:01]

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. One of the key takeaways is just the fact, Phil, that Huntsville is such a military town and this is really pitting two core conservative pillars against one another -- abortion and the military. And when you talk to voters in the state they'll tell you they're concerned that this could have a long-term effect not just on the military but the economy at large.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I'm pro-life and I'm a conservative, but I really don't believe that he should hold up military promotions.

FOX (voice-over): In the GOP stronghold of Alabama Sen. Tommy Tuberville's monthslong holds on military promotions are testing Republican support back home.

FOX (on camera): Did you vote for Tommy Tuberville?

GARY COUNTS, ALABAMA REPUBLICAN VOTER: I did.

FOX (on camera): Yes. Would you vote for him again, do you think?

COUNTS: Well, you know, it's going to be -- I'd have to watch and see what he does.

FOX (voice-over): Tuberville's opposition to the Pentagon's policy to reimburse travel for reproductive care is popular. His tactics, less so.

GREG BLACK, ALABAMA VOTER: When you start politicizing how to promote, I think we're stepping into the wrong territory. I come from a military family. My dad is retired Marine. My oldest brother is retired Navy. I'm retired Air Force. So we give ourselves to this country.

FOX (voice-over): His holds pit two cornerstones of GOP politics against each other -- abortion and the military. In Alabama, abortion is illegal in the state unless the life of the mother is in danger.

FOX (on camera): In Huntsville, the military is the backbone of the economy and Tuberville's holds are already having an immediate impact at Redstone Arsenal.

MAJOR GEN. JIM ROGERS, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Someone advised him that this was a good idea and it is impacting our services. It's impacting our nation. It's impacting Alabama.

He needs to step back now and say I understand the implications and we need to go forward.

FOX (on camera): Yes.

ROGERS: And we need to get these people in the right positions because it's a huge domino all the way down.

FOX (voice-over): For military families the impact is personal.

KERRY ANTON, ALABAMA VOTER: I can't figure out what his reasoning would be to essentially punish people that have no dog in the fight for his own agenda. I just retired from the Army in March. I served 20 years. So, yes, it kind of rings close to home for me.

FOX (voice-over): And uncertainty for the top brass trickles down.

Kwan's (PH) brother is proud to wear the uniform but she says he is facing a stressful delay.

KWAN, BROTHER IN MILITARY: He was telling me that he's still in limbo. He doesn't know what he's going to have to do next or where he's going next. And so, I could kind of hear in his voice that he would like to know more about if he is able to continue to do the great work that he's doing with the military.

FOX (voice-over): Retired Col. James Henderson is relishing Tuberville's standoff with President Joe Biden.

HENDERSON: I'm certain he would not compromise, nor do I think he should.

FOX (voice-over): And some voters are cheering their senator on.

KERRY HOLCOMBE ALABAMA VOTER: It's one way that he can make the voice -- his voice known and the voice of the people who are pro-life and that don't want their tax dollars going towards the funding of abortion.

FOX (voice-over): Tuberville might be under fire in Washington but he does still have the backing of the state party.

JOHN WAHL, CHAIRMAN, ALABAMA GOP: In politics, everything is a risk. But, no. I'm looking at a U.S. senator who wants to do a good job representing his constituents who sees a flawed policy and is standing against it.

FOX (voice-over): Yet, with no end in sight, the gamble for the senator is growing.

ROGERS: His position to all of us -- to Alabama -- was I am military. I am one of you. This flies right into the face of that and there's not time -- there's not a compromise to me. He needs to just step back and go OK, coach -- I'm the coach. I'm going to do an audible here. I did not realize all the implications that it has on everyone.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOX: And by the end of the week, the expectation is the number of holds that Tuberville is affecting now will rise to 275. We also expect that in upcoming weeks, the state party in Alabama is going to vote on a resolution backing their senator and his actions in Washington. The chairman told me he expects that to pass overwhelmingly, guys.

PHILLIP: Yes. When you're talking about a deep red state like Alabama you can see why he might have the backing to do something this controversial. Lauren, thank you.

MATTINGLY: All right.

Well, we are continuing to cover that breaking news out of North Korea. An American man now in North Korean custody after crossing the border into the country. Stand by for more reporting at the top of the hour. (COMMERCIAL)

[07:57:15]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

MATTINGLY: Well, good Tuesday morning, everyone. We want to get straight to our breaking news.

An American man is believed to be in North Korean custody after crossing the border during a tour of the demilitarized zone. That's according to the United Nations Command, which says it's working with the North Korean army to resolve the situation.

PHILLIP: CNN's Will Ripley is live in Taipei, Taiwan for us. Priscilla Alvarez is over at the White House. And Kylie Atwood is at the State Department.

So, Will, I want to start with you. We were discussing in the last hour where -- how this could have even happened. Is it really all that easy to accidentally wander over onto the North Korean side when you're in this part of the DMZ?

RIPLEY: Do you remember that moment when President Trump took that kind of spontaneous trip to the demilitarized zone and then Kim Jung Un showed up and the two of them crossed over the demarcation line and President Trump stepped foot technically into North Korean soil? It was a few footsteps.

So it's actually not that difficult to cross if that's in the area where the crossing happened. Now, there are other parts of the demilitarized zone and we don't exactly know which location this particular group was being shown. But there are woods, and there are -- there are occasionally mines, and there are also sniper towers. It could be a much more dangerous situation.

But if they were, indeed, at Panmunjom village, which is where they basically have these buildings that straddle the border -- half of the building in the north, half of the building in the south.

And if you go inside the building you can see where they had negotiations between the North and the South and they were sitting on their respective sides many decades ago where they basically signed the armistice that put a pause on the Korean War that's still in effect to this day. Technically, the two Koreas still are at war.

They've never -- they've ever reached a peace deal. They just basically stopped the fighting, which after several million people died and basically, there was no land gained or lost by either side. The line stayed right where it was. And you had millions of people who died in that war.

And a lot of Americans don't even really think about that. They think about World War II. They don't think about the Korean War as much.

But the North Koreans certainly think about the Korean War every single day. They have museums dedicated to it. They have their own version of history about -- they say that America started the war which, of course, is not accurate according to pretty much every Western historian. But the North Koreans have a real deep-seated hatred towards the United States because of what they're taught in school and the propaganda that they grow up with.

And now, this American citizen has put himself into a situation where he is going to be right there and he is going to be in North Korea for perhaps quite a long time because it's very difficult to communicate right now. The North is arguably more isolated than it has ever been. Very little in terms of foreign diplomats on the ground in Pyongyang. No official open lines of communication.

There are backchannels. Those backchannels will be operating but it's not going to be easy.

[08:00:00]