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U.S. Soldier Willfully Crossed Border; Jake Tapper's Interview with DeSantis; Some Democrats Boycott Israeli President's Speech. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired July 19, 2023 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Come and attack a joint session of Congress. He would be under Guantanamo by now. So, you talk about these two different realities. I think the Republicans say they're being too hard on our guy. And we're saying, what are you talking about? This was like, you know, one of the most outrageous things to ever happen in the history of the country and we're just now getting to a target letter? That's where we are? We're at a target letter? We still don't have been a indictment on - on the insurrection and all the bad stuff that happened before and after. So, I think, yes, we are finally, finally getting, I think, as I said before, to the stuff that was the most offensive to most Americans.

I also think that Trump, I - when you listen to him, I think he's making a certain bet. We all - we keep saying, you know, this is not going to play in a general election, it's not going to play in a general election. You know, I don't know because I'm not seeing the numbers change very much with indictment after indictment. We'll see if this one makes a difference. But I think he might be playing a different game here. He might be thinking of himself as an anti-hero that can rail -- in an age of anti-heroes. And so, I'm not sure. But I think, from my point of view, we're finally getting down to the real stuff.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: It may not be even a question of Trump gaining, it might be a question of Biden losing if -- you know, losing support on the other side of the equation.

JONES: Exactly.

PHILLIP: We'll have to leave it there. Van, Elie, Kaitlan, thank you all so much for joining us this morning.

And up next for us, a catastrophic flood in southwest Kentucky overnight prompting several water rescues. An update on that ahead.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: And CNN's Will Ripley is near the demilitarized zone where a U.S. soldier crossed over to North Korea and is now believed to be in custody there.

Will.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Phil, this is about as close as we are allowed to get. Still less than five miles from the spot where this Army private just walked over the military demarcation line. See those spikes. See those barricades. All this security. How did he do it and what other American made that trip before him?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:36:03]

PHILLIP: As you get your morning started, here are "5 Things" you need to know.

Former President Trump says that he expects to be indicted and arrested again. Trump announced special counsel Jack Smith notified him that he's a target of a criminal investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

MATTINGLY: And for the very first time suspects have been charged in the 2020 fake electors scheme. Michigan's attorney general announcing felony charges against 16 alleged fake electors accused of signing certificates that falsely claim Trump won the 2020 election there.

PHILLIP: Catastrophic flooding in southwestern Kentucky this morning resulting in several water rescues. Heavy rain and thunderstorms are expected to continue this morning. Officials in the region warning that residents need to stay off the roads.

MATTINGLY: And over 70 million people are under heat alerts from Florida to California. Miami has seen 38 consecutive days where the heat index has been in the triple digits. In Phoenix, it has set a new record after its 19th straight day of temperatures exceeding 110 degrees.

PHILLIP: And it has been 27 years since rapper Tupac Shakur was killed, but now police in Las Vegas have executed a search warrant in connection with his murder.

That's "5 Things" that you need to know this morning. Don't forget to download the five things podcast every morning. Go to cnn.com/fivethings. You can also find it anywhere you get your podcasts.

MATTINGLY: I want to do an entire show on Tupac. I'm so fascinated by that development. I have so many questions.

PHILLIP: I want to know more about that for sure.

MATTINGLY: But this was also fascinating. We covered some of it yesterday. Now we have new details about the U.S. soldier who is believed to be in North Korean custody. The Army says Private Travis King is a calvary scout who enlisted in January 2021. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin says King, quote, willfully and without authorization crossed the demilitarized zone while on a tour of the joint security area. Two U.S. officials tell CNN that King spent 50 days in a detention facility in South Korea after facing disciplinary action for assault. He was about to be separated from the Army and was even escorted to the airport to fly back to the U.S. and never boarded the plane.

CNN's senior international correspondent Will Ripley joins us now from the unification bridge near the DMZ.

Will, what are you seeing right now? What more do we know?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know, we actually just made that drive from the airport. It takes about 90 minutes or so to get here. This is as close as we are allowed to get to the joint security area where this incident took place. This is the unification bridge just beyond these barricades here and you can see spike strips on the ground, barricades. Basically, they don't want people coming here unless they have authorization. We're not even allowed to shoot this side. That's where the military vehicles have been passing by.

But there are tour groups that are allowed. They get special clearance. And we have video of this place because, well, pretty recently President Trump -- former President Trump was there. This is the spot where President Trump actually walked across the military demarcation line with Kim Jong-un, officially becoming the first sitting American president on North Korean soil.

So, even though we haven't seen security video to see what Travis King, the Army private, actually -- now how he closed, very likely he probably took a very similar path to the former president.

PHILLIP: And, Will, what do we know about Travis King? And what happens next to him now that he is in North Korea? And this is a country that the United States does not have diplomatic relations with.

RIPLEY: Well, this is the tricky thing. After 47 days in South Korean custody, knowing that he was going to face disciplinary action in Texas and be separated from the Army, Mr. King decided that he would go and make that crossing into North Korea. But what he might not have realized is, one, there is extreme fear inside North Korea right now about westerners or foreigners in general because of Covid-19. And the vast majority of that population still is unvaccinated. So there's a very good chance that he might be quarantined right now and could be quarantined for quite some time before official questioning begins.

And when he is questioned, likely they'll want to know all about his military background. Now, previously, about a half a dozen U.S. service men had defected into North Korea. All but one of them stayed there until they died.

[08:40:03]

But these were different times when the United States had a higher value to the North Koreans in terms of getting somebody from the military living in there. In this case, you know, Mr. King wasn't in the Army for very long. He doesn't have a whole lot of intel that he'd be able to share with them aside from where he was stationed and what he was doing as a private. So, once the North Koreans assess that they probably couldn't gain a lot of military intelligence from him and perhaps not much propaganda value either because they haven't really used Americans for propaganda in a number of years, the last time they did it was the sons, actually, of a U.S. defector, a military defector that they put in a propaganda video to denounce the United States.

But we don't know any of this officially right now. It's all speculative because the North Koreans have not even mentioned the fact that Mr. King is in their custody. And so -- and there's no official communication happening between the United States and North Korea. And so really, until we hear something officially on the record from either the U.S. or North Korea, we don't know where he is, and we certainly don't know how long he's going to be there.

PHILLIP: Yes, I'm not sure what exactly the plan would have been going into North Korea, but it sounds like it may not be going according to whatever this Army major was trying - this Army individual was trying to do.

Will, thank you very much.

And CNN's Jake Tapper sitting down with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis for an exclusive interview. What he had to say about the trajectory of his own campaign and the strategy that he has going forward. Jake joins us with that interview, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIP: Now, Donald Trump isn't the only one making headlines. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is also. He sat down for an exclusive interview with CNN's Jake Tapper, reacting to Donald Trump potentially facing a third indictment, and defending his own campaign, which critics have argued is lagging.

[08:45:11]

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: This issue gets into the state of the race because some of your supporters are disappointed that your campaign has yet to catch fire the way they would want in terms of polling. One Republican pollster, one who is sympathetic to you, I was asking her about your campaign, and she said she thought the issue was, you bumped up at the beginning because voters, Republican voters, saw you as a more electable conservative like Trump. Like you -- Trump without the baggage. But then they say, as you go further and further to the right on some of these divisive social issues that could alienate moderates, suburban moms, et cetera, Republican voters see you as less and less electable. What do you say to that analysis?

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL) 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I don't think it's true. I mean the proof is in the pudding. I mean I took a state that had been a one point state and we won it by 20 percentage points, 1.5 million votes. Our bread and butter were people like suburban moms. We're leading a big movement for parents 'rights, to have the parents be involved in education, school choice, get the indoctrination out of schools.

And, of course, there's bread and butter issues that matter too. Inflation. More economic opportunity. Florida's economy is ranked number one of all 50 states. We've worked hard to make that happen. Crime. You see crime in all these different communities that is now even going into suburbs and some areas. So, I think there's a lot of things. I don't think that's the reason.

I think the reason is, is I was getting a lot of media attention at the time coming off the victory. I had to do my job as governor with my legislative session. And we had a great live session. We did a lot of great things. Actually things that appeal to huge majorities of the - of the population. So, I think that that analysis is wrong.

But I had to do that. And so I was basically taking fire really non- stop since then because a lot of people view me as a threat. I think the left views me as a threat because they think I'll beat Biden and actually deliver on all this stuff. And then, of course, people that have their allegiances with the - allegiances in the Republican side, you know, have gone after me.

But the reality is, this is a state-by-state process. I'm not running a campaign to try to juice, you know, whatever we are in the national polls. I mean I -- whatever we did in the CNN compared, whatever, it's fine. I'm definitely doing better than everybody else.

TAPPER: It's state by state, obviously.

DESANTIS: It's state by state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And joining us now is CNN anchor and chief Washington correspondent Jake Tapper. His new book, of course, "All the Demons Are Here," is available now. You should definitely check that out.

But, Jake, when it comes to this interview yesterday, this was a big deal. This was a significant shift it seemed like from at least the media strategy of the DeSantis campaign, in part because of what you were talking about in your questions. They needed a reset. That there's trouble in the campaign. Did you get the sense that they're in the midst of a reset when you spoke to the governor?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: I don't know that his stepping outside of the conservative media bubble to sit down and talk to me is a sign that they feel like they need to change strategies and appeal to a broader audience than just hard-core republicans watching, you know, Fox or Newsmax. I don't know that. But the timing suggests that that's true.

Obviously, we at CNN have been pushing to get an interview with Governor DeSantis, as we've been pushing to get an interview with all the major candidates for months if not - if not years. But on its face it does seem to suggest he needs to -- that his campaign recognizes he needs to at least expand the audience of people he's talking to. There are Iowa caucus voters who watch CNN, who watch "THE LEAD," Republicans. And they're -- it's not just die-hard Trump supporters who watch Fox or Newsmax. So, I think you have a point there.

Beyond that, I mean, he is not where he would like to be in the polls right now, although he's in second place. He's certainly in a better position than anyone else not named Donald Trump. So there constantly has to be, I think if you're running the campaign, the DeSantis campaign, a reassessing of priorities.

We should note, in all of these discussions about the state of his campaign, one of the most important points is his super PAC is sitting on an absolute pile of money. So, the pro-DeSantis super PAC still has time to blanket the airwaves in Iowa, in North Carolina - I'm -- South Carolina, in possibly New Hampshire, to get his message out. And we still have until January 15th before any votes are cast.

PHILLIP: Yes. And one of the biggest things standing in his way is going to be Donald Trump. And it just so happened that right before you sat down with him, Trump announced that he was likely to be indicted. Here is what Ron DeSantis had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Jack Smith has prosecuted Democrats, too. I mean he prosecuted, or at least was part of the prosecution, of Senator Menendez, Senator John Edwards. Are you saying that if he finds evidence of criminality, he should not charge Donald Trump anyway?

DESANTIS: What I'm saying is, when you're going after somebody on the other side of the political spectrum, if you're stretching statutes to try to criminalize maybe political disagreements, that is wrong.

[08:50:06]

Now, look, this is all speculation. But I think we've gone down the road in this country of trying to criminalize differences in politics rather than saying, OK, you don't like somebody, then defeat them in the election rather than trying to use the justice system.

So, we don't know what's going to happen, but I can tell you with the Bragg one, that was stretching criminal law. The evidence of criminality was very weak. And even if that existed, other people would not have been charged under those circumstances. That's the problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: You know, what's striking to me, Jake, about that answer is that he hasn't gotten it down to the 15 or 20-second elevator pitch. He's still working through it.

TAPPER: Yes, I mean, it's interesting. I mean, obviously, the news about this latest potential indictment came literally minutes before he and I sat down. So, he probably hadn't even had time to read Donald Trump's Truth Social posting on it.

But that said, I mean, he is attempt a complicated nuanced argument, which is, you know, he had that little life boat of this is all speculative, leaving him an out for whatever evidence comes down. But, you know, the -- both Donald Trump and all of his competitors are in many ways fearful of the Republican base, or at least mindful of the Republican base. And where they are might matter to many of them more than the principle of, well, if there's evidence of criminality people should be charged.

And, I mean, I asked him twice, if Jack Smith finds evidence of criminality, should Donald Trump be charged, and the impression you get is, no, I don't think so. I mean he said, I hope Donald Trump is not charged. That would be bad for the country. Which is an interesting position to take given the fact that if you read Donald - I mean, I'm sorry, if you read Ron DeSantis' memoire, there's a lot in there. He's a lawyer, a former Navy JAG. There's a lot in there about rule of law.

PHILLIP: Yes, I mean, it was notable to me that he did not want to directly address Trump's conduct as it relates to January 6th. And that's not going to be something that he can continue to ignore for much longer.

But, Jake, thank you for being here.

And everyone just be sure to watch "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper at 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time later today.

MATTINGLY: He's an OK guy, that Jake Tapper.

PHILLIP: Yes, he's all right. He's still - I think he's still here, but it's OK, we're going to talk about him.

MATTINGLY: Oh, can he hear us. We don't want him to hear us. (INAUDIBLE). It was a great interview. You guys should watch it, if you haven't already.

Also, Israeli President Izaac Herzog will be addressing Congress in just hours. Why some Democratic lawmakers say they'll boycott his speech. We'll have more on that ahead.

PHILLIP: And happening today, House Republicans holding a controversial public hearing with two IRS whistleblowers at the center of the Hunter Biden investigation. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:55:59]

MATTINGLY: Just hours from now the president of Israel, a major U.S. ally, is set to address a joint session of Congress. And some progressive lawmakers say they plan to skip the speech in a controversial boycott against the nation's treatment of Palestinians.

PHILLIP: CNN congressional correspondent Lauren Fox is live on Capitol Hill this morning.

Lauren, so how many Democrats now are expected to participate in this boycott of the speech?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Abby, it's just a handful of progressive Democrats, including Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, as well as Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, Jamaal Bowman, Corey Busch. And we also know that Rashida Tlaib will not be attending this speech either.

But this comes on the heels of a tough week on Capitol Hill when it comes to the U.S. relationship with Israel. When Herzog addresses Congress later this morning, he'll do so after there was a lot of back and forth between Republicans and Democrats, ultimately culminating last night in a vote on the House floor of a resolution showing support for Israel.

Ultimately, all but nine Democrats supported that resolution. But it came after the leader of the House Progressive Caucus, Pramila Jayapal, said over the weekend that Israel was a racist state. She later walked those comments back. And we should note, she voted for the resolution. But Republicans were really trying to show and drive a wedge between the Democratic Party yesterday with that resolution. Ultimately, like I said, it passed overwhelmingly with just a handful of Democrats voting against it.

Abby.

MATTINGLY: All right, Lauren Fox for us on Capitol Hill. Thank you so much.

And, you know, I think we should do this again tomorrow. What do you think? Sound good?

PHILLIP: Yes, I'll be here. Will you?

MATTINGLY: We'll see if there's going to be, what, 900 major news developments in the 24 hours between here and then.

PHILLIP: It's always a busy news day when I'm here with you, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Appreciate you, buddy.

All right, "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right after this break.

PHILLIP: Have a great day.

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