Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

Trump Classified Documents Trial Set For May 2024; Potential Third Indictment Looming For Trump; Southwest U.S. To See Weekend Of Triple Digit Temps; Actor Hill Harper Announces Bid For U.S. Senate; Source: Suspected Gilgo Beach Killer Believed To Have Lured And Murder Victims Inside His Own Home. Aired 7-8a ET

Aired July 22, 2023 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID BECKHAM, PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALLER: It's such a moment for this league, and it's a very proud moment for us.

CAROLYN MANNO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Elsewhere in baseball, it's another career milestone for Japanese two-way star, Shohei Otani, but definitely one he does not want. The Angels superstar giving up four home runs on the mound last night against the Pirates. Rookie Henry Davis hit two of them, becoming the first major league player ever to hit two homers in the same game off of Otani. Despite the struggles, though, he still picked up his eighth victory of the season in the Angels 8-5 win.

And they know about bad weather in England, which is where we wrap up. Not too bad out there, but American Brian Harman taking an impressive five-stroke lead into the weekend at the British Open. Took control early with four straight birdies, ended the day with a six-under-65 time, the 36-hole record at Royal Liverpool held by Tiger Woods and Rory McIlroy. Incredible day for the American as the weekend gets underway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MANNO (on camera): Just right about now, actually, coverage starting on the third round. And, Messi, what can you say? I mean, he's just the best.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, yes, he is. He showed out in that first showing. Carolyn Manno, thanks so much. Next hour of CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

Good morning and welcome to the best day of the week. This is CNN THIS MORNING, Saturday, July 22nd. I'm Victor Blackwell.

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: I thought it was Sunday because you said it's the best day of the week.

BLACKWELL: No, Saturday is the best day of the week. WALKER: Uh-oh, all right, all right. We beg to differ.

BLACKWELL: Why?

WALKER: I don't know. Sundays are just my relaxation days and hanging out and I don't know. It's just because of our schedule. Our weekends are Monday, Tuesdays.

BLACKWELL: Oh, OK, because then --

WALKER: Sundays are my Friday nights out.

BLACKWELL: Oh, OK, OK. All right, I get it.

WALKER: I'm Amara Walker. I forgot to mention that. Thanks for joining us this morning, here's what we are watching for you. While former President Trump is making the case to voters on the campaign trail, his lawyers will be making their case to a judge. The reason the judge in the classified documents case will not postpone the trial until after the 2024 election.

BLACKWELL: We're getting a look at the scope of the damage left behind after Russia launched a barrage of attacks on the Ukrainian city of Odessa, plus what President Zelenskyy is saying about the pace of his troops' counteroffensive against Russia.

WALKER: The stifling heat just won't let up. Dozens more records could fall today as cities continue to bake in triple digit temperatures. Chad Myers is here with your forecast.

BLACKWELL: Actor Hill Harper is pursuing his next role, U.S. Senator. He joins us live to discuss why he's running.

WALKER: Plus, new details about the accused Gilgo Beach serial killer. Why police are now focusing in on his family's home.

BLACKWELL: All right, a date has been set for the highly anticipated trial of Donald Trump's classified documents case. Yesterday, a judge scheduled a start date in May of 2024 deep into the presidential election campaign. Earlier, Trump said that it would be very dangerous if he's sent to prison for mishandling top secrets.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, 45TH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Because we do have a tremendously passionate group of voters, and I mean, maybe, you know, maybe 100, 150, I've never seen anything like it. Much more passion than they had in 2020, and much more passion than they had in 2016. I think it would be very dangerous. I've never even heard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: So, if the date holds, he could be facing at least four different trials on the campaign trail. The foreign president is also set to appear in court cases related to fraud, defamation and hush money payments. All of them are scheduled to start before his documents trial. Joining me now is former Federal Prosecutor and former Special Assistant to Robert Mueller, Michael Zeldin. Michael, good morning to you.

Judge Aileen Cannon, she cited the extensive evidence in the classified documents case for setting the trial date to the middle of next year. As you know, the prosecution wanted the trial to start in December or as soon as possible while Trump's defense pushed for until after the 2024 election. What are your thoughts on her decision?

MICHAEL ZELDIN, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO ROBERT MUELLER: If she holds true to it, meaning she actually starts the trial in May, it's not so bad. The prosecutors preferred earlier, but May is doable. The question is whether that will hold or whether she will then say, well, this is a complex case and we need to push it forward. So, setting the date is easy. Adhering to it is where the rubber meets the road, if you will.

WALKER: Right, when you talk about adhering to the date, also, even if it does start in May, I mean, we could be talking about lots of delays, right? Or this trial taking quite a long time, considering it does center around a trove of sensitive and many classified documents that could be shown to the jury. And as I understand it, there is an approval process where the judge will have to permit some of this evidence to be admissible, right?

ZELDIN: Exactly, and that's why I think the judge has set this long pre-trial period so that all of this pre-trial litigation is finalized so that when you get to May, you can have a firm trial date. She has set a status hearing on May 14th, I think, just before the May 20th trial date.

[07:05:15]

At that point, she should say, all right, let's go and we'll pick a jury starting on May the 20th. If she does that, then I think, fine, and everything goes well for both the prosecution and the defense. If she pushes it further, I think that does a great damage to the country and to the prosecutors particularly.

WALKER: What are the chances of her pushing it further? I mean, also considering that the defense needs time, right, to go through, I don't even know the number of documents because, you know, Trump's lawyers also had to get security clearance to read through these sensitive documents.

ZELDIN: Well, that's right, but they have nine months now, and there are only 31 classified documents. There are tons of unclassified documents, but a 10-month run-up before trial starts is plenty of time to review the documents that they will need to decide which go into trial, which don't go into trial, which are subject to privilege and which are not subject to privilege. So, I think that's a good ramp before this 20 May start date.

WALKER: So, you have the documents trial. You also have, in the meantime, Trump facing potentially a third indictment this year. This would be over efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Trump was informed on Sunday that he was a target of Special Counsel Jack Smith's investigation.

How certain are you that Trump will be charged in this case, and what about the timing? Could an indictment come before these other witnesses are interviewed? Because we are learning prosecutors are scheduling interviews with two more people connected to Trump.

ZELDIN: Right. So, a target letter says, essentially, we have a good reason to indict you on criminal charges. When that indictment follows, such a letter is not certain. I think that it is a likely portent that there will be an indictment, Amara, I just don't know when.

And so, it looks like Jack Smith is doing his final T-crossing and I- dotting, and then we'll see what the nature of the charges, if any, he brings, he's mentioned three potential statutes, obstruction, conspiracy to defraud, and under color of right depriving voters of their constitutional rights, all serious charges. But we have to see what he has in the way of evidence because we don't know what he has -- we only (INAUDIBLE) publicly.

WALKER: And regarding the timing, again, because you know we learned that there are several witnesses that are still, you know, the prosecution is hoping to talk to they're working to schedule interviews with two more people. Do you expect the indictment, if there is one, to come down after these interviews have wrapped up, or is that separate?

ZELDIN: I would think after. I would think that they would try to finish up, tie up the loose ends before they issue an indictment. That's normal, basic blocking, and tackling in a case like this. So, you make sure you have all the witnesses that you intend to rely on in one way or the other locked down and then you indict and then you release the indictment and then you set a trial date for that. And that trial date could come in the District of Columbia quicker than the May trial date in Mar-a-Lago, Florida case.

WALKER: Right, right. Just a lot of legal cases pertaining to Trump to keep track of. Michael Zeldin, appreciate you. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: We're following several developments in Russia's war on Ukraine. Six people were killed, eight wounded by Russian strikes in eastern Ukraine. That's according to regional military officials. And Ukraine says that 21 people have been injured by Russian strikes on Odessa over the past five days.

Russia unleashed a wave of attacks against the southern port city. Ukraine's air defenses destroyed just five of 19 Russian cruise missiles fired overnight Wednesday into Thursday. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy blasted Russia over the attacks in Odessa and elsewhere.

And Zelenskyy has an explanation for why Ukraine's counteroffensive got off to a slow start. He says Ukraine did not have enough munitions and not enough trained brigades. Despite the difficulties, he says Ukraine's forces are making progress. Russian President Vladimir Putin is blasting the U.S. and the West as

Ukraine forces struggle to make gains against those Russian defenses. But even as Putin tries to project superiority on the world stage, the CIA says he's more isolated. Details from CNN Senior International Correspondent Fred Pleitgen now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With Ukraine now using U.S.-supplied cluster munitions to try and penetrate the Russian Army's entrenched positions on the southern front, Russian leader Vladimir Putin ripping into the US and its allies for aiding Kyiv.

[07:10:05]

VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translation): The whole world can see that the supposedly invulnerable equipment that the West boasted about is on fire. And technically, it is often even inferior to some Soviet-made weapons. Yes, of course, additional Western armaments can be supplied and thrown into battle. This, of course, causes us certain damage and prolongs the conflict.

PLEITGEN: But while Putin tries to project superiority on the battlefield, at home, the Kremlin continues to silence critical voices, even some of those supporting their war.

Prominent military blogger, Igor Girkin, who also goes by Igor Strelkov, arrested today, his wife said, after remarks blasting the lack of progress of Russia's military campaign in Ukraine.

"The situation with the special operation and in the country in general is deplorable, to put it mildly," he said, "This is the result of actions of the incumbent power."

Girkin is a former colonel in Russia's security service, FSP, and was the defense minister of the so-called Donetsk People's Republic in Eastern Ukraine when the Malaysian jetliner MH-17 was shot down there in 2014.

Girkin was found guilty of mass murder in absentia by a Dutch court for involvement in the incident, which he has never acknowledged. While Girkin is considered a war criminal in Ukraine, he deems himself a Russian ultra-nationalist who feels the war should be prosecuted even more brutally.

Putin's grip on power was only recently challenged by the uprising of the Wagner private military company and its boss, Yevgeny Prygozhin. Now, the Russian leader wants to calm things down CIA Director, William Burns, believes.

WILLIAM BURNS, CIA DIRECTOR: Putin is trying to buy time. As he considers what to do with Wagner and what to do with Prygozhin himself, you know Putin hates in my experience anyway the image that he's overreacting to things.

PLEITGEN: But that doesn't mean Prygozhin is forgiven, Burns says.

BURNS: If I were Prygozhin, I wouldn't fire my food taster.

PLEITGEN: Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL (on camera): It'll be another really hot weekend across the U.S. No relief in sight.

WALKER: More than 80 million people are waking up to some sort of heat alert this morning, with temperatures expected to peak at 125 for some places. Right now, in Phoenix, it is 98 degrees, and keep in mind it's just after 4:00 a.m. local time. If Phoenix reaches above 110 degrees today, which it is expected to do, then it'll be the 23rd day in a row topping 110. We're joined now by CNN Meteorologist Chad Myers. Chad, what are we to do? It's too hot out there and the heat won't let up.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It is and what's happening is that this jet stream that's keeping this heat dome here across the south and the southwest will not move. Typically, you'll get a little bit of a dive, a little trough that will come through, it will cool down, it will warm up. It has been stuck. We have had these temperatures now stuck for weeks.

And places like El Paso, over a month now with temperatures over 100. Waking up in Phoenix right now at 98 degrees is just -- it's hard to fathom. It'll be 112, feels like, temperature in Baton Rouge. And as we talk about all this heat across the South and the Southwest, really, the Midwest is doing very well, so is the Northeast -- much cooler than normal.

But that is about to change, because this warm air that is in the West will start to slide to the East. There will be showers across the Deep South to cool you down a little bit today. But across parts of the Midwest and the Northeast, 80s in the middle of July. That's a pretty good Saturday afternoon, I think. Lots of sunshine.

Make sure you have a lot of sunscreen on today because the sun will be out. But Chicago, here's where your weather is going, from the 80s all the way to the 90s. So, yes, the weather from the West will move toward the Midwest and eventually to the Northeast. But at least we'll enjoy a few nice days in a row. Amara

BLACKWELL: Hot out there for a lot of people. Chad Myers, thanks so much. Actor Hill Harper is now campaigning. He's running to replace retiring Michigan Senator Debbie Stabenow. He will join us live to talk about his run.

WALKER: Plus, police in Gilgo Beach are now focusing on the family home of the accused killer, Rex Heuermann. What they're looking for.

[07:14:27]

Plus, we'll talk to a criminologist about how police say Heuermann was able to live a double life. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Well, he's best known for his role as Dr. Marcus Andrews on the ABC show, "The Good Doctor." Now, he hopes to be a U.S. Senator. Actor Hill Harper has announced that he's running for U.S. Senate in Michigan to fill the seat soon to be vacated by retiring Democrat Debbie Stabenow. The Michigan Representative, Elissa Slotkin, is seen as the frontrunner in this race. She announced her candidacy in February. And Hill Harper joins us now. Hill, good to see you. Thank you for spending some time with us.

HILL HARPER, ACTOR: Good morning. All right, so, you know, I probably shouldn't say that Elissa Slotkin is the front runner now that you're in the race. She's expected, you know, she is seen as one, but I haven't seen any polls with you in them. So, I leave that open, but I wonder what you say to Michigan voters who know Elissa Slotkin, know you from television, and what you say that you bring from an advocacy and effectiveness, a policy standpoint, that she does not.

HARPER: You know, there's something really wonderful happening here in Michigan, and that's we have a triple blue leadership in Lansing that's been doing, I think, a fantastic job, pushing and work -- pushing work for working families and doing wonderful work. The problem is here in Michigan, a lot of folks don't believe that D.C. is working for them.

They think D.C. is broken and they want representation that represents them, their values and who they are. And I think that they see that in me. I've traveled all across the state, met with folks up north: farmers, MAGA folks in the city here in Detroit where I am right now.

And you hear a lot of the same things, a lot of problems with how they believe that they don't see that their lives are being improved by our federal government and the representation they have. And I think that they're looking for new, fresh leadership from that perspective, particularly as it pertains to Washington, D.C.

[07:20:33]

BLACKWELL: I want to get to policy in a moment, but on the politics of it, there's a mixed, I guess, success rate for celebrities running for office. For every Senator J.D. Vance, you've got a Hershel Walker or a Dr. Oz, or a Cynthia Nixon. What do you say to those, Democrats who say that they like what you say, they like what you stand for, but to risk such a narrow majority in the Senate with a first-time or a novice in politics, they're reluctant to do that.

HARPER: Well, you know, the map is a little different than that here in Michigan. You know, Michigan is one of the most diverse states in the country, and if we are going to maintain a majority in the Senate, it's going to come through Michigan. And if we are going to win the presidency, it's going to happen in Michigan.

It's going to happen through turnout, though. It's going to happen through turnout of the African American community here. I mean, I think everybody's pretty clear that Michigan is a red state until Detroit shows up, until Wayne County shows up, and Black folks show up, whether they're in Saginaw, Flint, Benton Harbor, Muskegon.

When we come out, we create a victory for the Democrats. And so, I think that there's a lot of people that I've been hearing from that are super excited about this candidacy because we're going to speak to that group of voters that's the largest voting bloc in the state of Michigan, which are folks who don't vote.

We're going to get these people back out, get them to believe in democracy again, get them to believe that someone's actually going to represent their interests and not the interests of lobbyists, special interests and big corporate money.

BLACKWELL: Let me ask you about policy. You support a single payer healthcare system, one kind of government-run Medicare for all style system. The president supports a public option. We haven't heard a lot about that lately, but he does support a public option.

If universal healthcare didn't make it into the 2009 bill, the ACA, the public option was dropped from that and we're not hearing much about it from the president now. What makes you think, why do you have some degree of confidence that you can get to a universal system?

HARPER: Well, you know, I don't want to fall into the common tropes of using other people's language about what the best health care system in our country should be. That's why I don't use other people's language and terms. What I just know this is that health care should be a right, not a privilege.

If you get sick, you need and you should be able to go to the doctor without having to file for bankruptcy, which we know the number one cause of personal bankruptcies is catastrophic medical. We also know that one third of the money raised on GoFundMe is for medical. I met a woman in Grand Rapids about two weeks ago who was talking to me about the fact that she had Medicare, yet they sent her home.

She needed a heart transplant, a life-saving heart transplant. They sent her home and told her to go raise the money. She needed $12,000. She had to go on GoFundMe. GoFundMe is not a health plan. And so, we have to do better for our people. There should certainly be a safety net of quality affordable health care that we provide.

And whether we want to call it access, whether we want to call it affordable, whether we want to call it universal, we cannot put people in a position where they're either filing for bankruptcy for health care or having to go to GoFundMe.

BLACKWELL: But you do support a single-payer system?

HARPER: I support a system that works for all, all of us and a safety net-based system. So, if it's a choice, if it's a choice system and that's the best system for us, then that's what I support. At the end of the day, this is exactly when we talk about using terms, whether it's Medicare for all or whether it's a single payer system or it's this system, what we have to do is figure out what's going to work best for folks and how do we solve real problems. The problem is healthcare needs to be accessible and high quality for

all Americans. That's the thing. So, how do we solve that? And if we start, I believe we have to get out of this place of talking about this is the best system. There are multiple systems that can work, but at the end of the day, I believe that having a universal safety net at a minimum, needs to exist.

BLACKWELL: OK, I'm just pulling this straight from your Web site and where it says that you will continue to fight for a single-payer system. So, although you may have some problem with the term, it's a term that you use on your Web site. But let me come to something else. And this is the --

HARPER: Sure.

BLACKWELL: I hear you --

HARPER: Sure, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Go ahead, go ahead.

HARPER: Sure, you have to use terms that people understand. But at the end of the day, what I'm trying to explain is, is that folks want any type of system that doesn't get them into a catastrophic financial situation and doesn't lead them down a road where they have to go to GoFundMe. So, what I'm trying to say is take a step back.

[07:25:23]

BLACKWELL: I hear what you're saying, but you're saying that you're using a term --

HARPER: It works for everybody. It worked. Yes, yes.

BLACKWELL: You're using a term that people understand, but is it something you support? Do you support a single-payer system?

HARPER: Yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely.

BLACKWELL: All right, let me ask you about residency. And I understand that when I ask this question, it is a delicate question, but your campaign launch video is entitled, Dear Pierce. It's a message to your son. And we're just kind of watching you record this video, announcing or telling him that you are running for office. You started by saying, Dear Pierce, I'm recording this video for you because I'm about to make a big announcement. Let's watch a portion here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARPER: Dear Pierce, I'm recording this video for you because I'm about to make a big announcement. See, what I learned on my grandfather's farm growing up is that when you plant something in good soil, you get something much better in return. That's why I'm raising you in Michigan.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLACKWELL: You framed your announcement in the context of speaking to

your son and you're raising him there. The Seattle Times reported in 2020 that you enrolled your son in foreign language emergent school in Washington. Yahoo reported just last year in September that he was in Washington in school there. Is he enrolled in school in Michigan? Are you raising your son in Michigan?

HARPER: Yes, he's here. He's enrolled in school in Michigan. I take my son where I go, just like everybody, in terms of when were, when I'm working. I'm a single-parent. And so, when you're a single parent, your child travels with you and goes where you go. And I've been shooting a show in Vancouver, British Columbia.

And the goal is to always, when we go to work, when you're acting, you go where you go. How I ended up choosing Michigan is because of my career. I came here to do a set of films when there was a tax and media credit here in Michigan and fell in love with the people. And so, seven years ago, after I had my son and adopted my son, we got our house here.

And when COVID hit, Canada had a 14-day quarantine. You couldn't travel in and out of the state or fly in and out. So, we had to base in the Pacific Northwest to shoot my show. But we are here full-time, and we've been here. We love this state. You know, Michigan's my home, and it's the greatest state in the country.

And I want other folks to choose Michigan like I chose Michigan. When I bought my business here seven years ago, you know, I want other folks to bring and invest in this state and bring their entrepreneurship here. We're 49th in growth, so we have to do a better job getting people to move here, to come here.

It's the most beautiful state, the topography. We have the 21 percent of the world's fresh water supply here. It's an incredibly resilient place, and so we want more folks to come here like I did.

BLACKWELL: All right, Hill Harper, thank you so much.

WALKER: Still ahead, disturbing new details about the suspect in the Gilgo Beach serial killings, including where he may have committed the murders. A criminologist will join us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:32:23]

WALKER: Chilling new details this week in the Gilgo Beach murder, as a source involved with the investigation tells CNN that investigators think the suspect, Rex Heuermann, may have committed the killings inside his Long Island New York home.

We've learned that some of the victims disappeared when his family was out of town, suggesting he may have lured them to his house.

Heuermann is now behind bars, charged with the murder and the deaths of three of the Gilgo four. The four women whose remains were found on Long Island's Gilgo Beach back in 2010.

Let's discuss all of this with Scott Bonn. He is a criminologist. He's also the author of, "Why We Love Serial Killers, and the host of the podcast, The Killing Hour with Doc Bonn.

Scott, appreciate your time this morning. Good morning to you.

You know one of the most disturbing details about the case is that the suspect was living this double life. And you predicted back in 2011 that the killer would be someone who can walk into a room and seem like your average Joe.

Elaborate, please.

DR. SCOTT BONN, CRIMINOLOGIST, PODCAST HOST: Yes, absolutely. Yes, this type of serial killer is, in my mind, similar to a Ted Bundy or a John Wayne Gacy. And that they have seemingly normal lives with even a family, a successful business career respected by the community itself. And yet they've got this alter ego, if you will, that a transform into and become a diabolical, torturous killer.

And, and it's through psychological compartmentalization, which is an ability almost like flipping a switch to just transform into almost like another being and this is what enables him and others like him to not suffer any emotional consequences, anxiety, guilt, cognitive dissonance, when they do so.

They are -- it's almost like they just become another person.

WALKER: So, his ability or a serial killer's ability to compartmentalize -- excuse me.

Does it make it likely then that Heuermann's family, his wife and children may truly have had no idea that something like this could potentially have happened inside their home?

BONN: As strange as it may seem, to the layman, this is not uncommon. In fact, I've been comparing this serial killer to another name Dennis Rader, who actually gave himself a name, bind, torture, kill.

[07:35:07]

He was similar to this John Wayne or to another named Dennis Rader, who actually gave himself a name bind torture kill. He was similar to this. John Wayne Gacy killed people in his own home. Jeffrey Dahmer killed people in his -- in his apartment. So, it's not uncommon at all.

Serial killers operate in a comfort zone. They like being in control. They are ultimate control freaks, in fact. So, they want to be in an environment that they feel the master of that universe, and that includes the home.

But they are so meticulous, they are such good planners that they're able to then clean up the crime scene, take the body -- bodies, in this case, to a desolated area, where they were dismembered, wrapped up, and carefully placed in a -- in a, you know, in an isolated area.

So, no, this is just part of this type of serial killer who's a meticulous planner. Not all serial killers are this way. Some are more like wild animals, and they -- and they blitz their victim and leave them where they die.

But not this guy. This guy was a planner, organized, and highly, highly meticulous.

WALKER: And there is so many disturbing things, including the fact that this home, where police believe the crimes took place, I mean, this was his childhood home, and then a home where you know, he raised his children and, of course, live with his wife.

I want you to listen to what the Suffolk County sheriff told our Erin Burnett this week about Heuermann's behavior while he was in custody. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Sheriff Toulon, I know that you have seen him on three occasions now. You know, you've interacted with him, you've had a chance, I -- you know, for lack of a better word, to you know, look him in the eye -- I mean the face.

What can you tell us about those interactions?

ERROL TOULON JR., SHERIFF, SUFFOLK COUNTY, NEW JERSEY: You know, amazingly, no emotions whatsoever. And when you think about someone, you know, last week that was roaming around the streets in New York, and also Massapequa Park freely, to be confined in the space that he is currently confined, and you would think that you could see some emotion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: Really, would we have seen any emotion at all from a serial killer?

BONN: Very unlikely. Very unlikely. This guy is a complete psychopath, and what's known as a malignant narcissist, which is a -- which is narcissism with sadism thrown in for good measure.

He's barely human, he is more of a killing machine. He's like a great white shark that is just below the surface, and you don't see them until the last second, when they -- when they attack.

So, the fact that he would be so cool, calm, and collected, in custody, doesn't surprise me at all.

In fact, what I think he's doing right now is getting his bearings, assessing his environment like a predator would do, determining the evidence against him. And he's going to make a calculated decision at some point whether to come clean, and stand up and take credit for what he believes is his life's great work and he truly believes that.

Or, he could go another narcissistic route and try to milk this for the media attention for the long run the way Ted Bundy did.

So, it depends what his -- what his grandiose and narcissistic needs are. If I was a betting man, I think he ultimately will take credit and try to grandstand and say, look how brilliant I was.

WALKER: These women's remains, they were found less than six miles from Heuermann's home on Gilgo Beach. Why do you think, you know, if he committed this crime, he would choose such a public place to dump their remains?

BONN: Well, just like he was invisible in plain sight, those bodies were invisible in plain sight. Because if you know that area, and I actually was living in New York at the time that this happened, that's a very isolated, desolate area, with just a briars and thicket, where he left these bodies.

So, it -- while it's in open, plain sight, it's not an easy place to get to. And why would he select something close to his home? Well, serial killers, as I mentioned before, operate in a comfort zone where they feel in control.

This was -- I mean, literally, viewing distance from his home across the bay. And that, that gave him, I also believe, a tremendous thrill.

The fact that knowing his -- and I'm going to say this, in his terms, sacred burial ground I was so close by, that gave him an additional thrill every time he looked across the bay, and I'm sure that he went back frequently to visit that location because it allowed him to relive in his fantasy -- daytime fantasies, the thrilling of the killing itself.

(CROSSTALK)

[07:40:06]

WALKER: That's -- It's disturbing and disgusting at the same time.

(CROSSTALK)

BONN: This guy is -- this guy's fantasy need.

WALKER: Scott Bonn, we're going to leave it there. Thank you very much.

BLACKWELL: Still ahead, the White House announced that several tech giants have agreed to implement guardrails on artificial intelligence. We'll take a closer look.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALKER: The Biden administration is taking steps to develop comprehensive regulations to govern the rapidly growing A.I. industry.

BLACKWELL: The White House says leading tech companies have now made safety comments or commitments, I should say, on new artificial intelligence systems to ensure they are trustworthy. [07:45:01]

CNN's Jeremy Diamond has details.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you over the last several months, there is really been a growing sense of urgency inside the White House to tackle these A.I. policy and regulatory issues. To try and embrace the opportunities that A.I. presents while also trying to put safeguards around the challenges and the potential risks of this fast-moving technology.

And these commitments that the seven leading A.I. companies have agreed to are the product of months of back and forth between the White House and these A.I. companies, as well as non-industry academic experts on A.I., including, ethicist and some A.I. critics, as well.

The most significant of these commitments is a commitment by the seven leading A.I. companies to submit their unreleased new A.I. models to outside testing, red teaming, as it's called in this tech world, effectively, allowing outside experts to test and prod and conduct attempted cyber-attacks on these new A.I. systems before they are released to the public.

The second most significant item here on this list of commitments is a commitment from these companies to begin clearly labeling A.I.- generated audio and visual content as A.I.-generated.

One of the ways that they could do that is through watermarking, so that consumers can clearly see when content is A.I.-generated.

Others on the list of commitments include investments in cybersecurity and insider threat safeguards, as well as prioritizing research into the societal risks of A.I.

Now, the bottom line here is that these are indeed voluntary commitments, and they're written pretty broadly. And they are -- they can be open to interpretation. Skeptics, here will note that these tech companies really haven't lived up to a lot of other commitments that they've made in the past, and they haven't necessarily been the best at regulating themselves.

So, there's some skepticism here about what these commitments will actually do. But I can tell you that I spoke with Bruce Reed, who's the president's deputy chief of staff, who has been managing this policy process.

And one of the things he made clear is that this is only a first step, and he calls it a bridge to regulation and legislation. And so, that will indeed be the next step here is what does the Biden administration do from an executive action standpoint? The president, on Friday, making clear that there will be an executive order.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In the weeks ahead, I'm going to continue to take executive action to help America lead the way toward responsible innovation.

And we're going to work with both parties to develop appropriate legislation or regulation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: Now, I'm told that, that first executive order from the Biden administration on A.I. could come as early as the end of this summer. But there are so many different issues that this White House is trying to tackle as it relates to A.I. Everything from consumer risks to competitive nests with other countries. In particular, China, over artificial intelligence.

And the White House is also closely working with the Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, who's working to develop a broad framework for A.I. regulation through bipartisan legislation. That though, will be months away, which is why these official say that these safeguards, in particular, the outside testing of these systems could be laying the groundwork for potential regulation.

And that testing of those A.I. systems before they are released, could eventually be done by government regulators, or licensers.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, the White House.

WALKER: All right. Thank you, Jeremy Diamond. We are back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:52:41]

BLACKWELL: Close ties with two friends on a farm. The owner of a farm in Ohio found her goats horns all tangled up in a horse's tail.

WALKER: What was the goat doing there? Here is CNN's Jeanne Moos.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Did you hear the one about the goat that got tangled in a horse's tail?

TERESA GOINS, OWNER, ORCHARD FARM: Are you stuck in his tail?

How did this happen?

I don't know either.

MOOS (voice over): Copper the horse and Jesse the goat are friends who got entangled.

MOOS: What is your theory for how this happened?

GOINS: So, my theory is that Copper was swatting out a fly with his tail and happened to hook Jesse's horns in it.

MOOS (voice over): Teresa Goins is the owner of Orchard View Farm in Marysville, Ohio, where there's a lot of horsing around between a llama, donkeys, and horses that scratch each other.

Not to mention Jesse the goat missing part of her ear after getting it caught while leaping over a barn door.

And here she is caught again, this time, on Copper's tail.

GOINS: Copper. You got a friend a really close friend right now.

MOOS: We'd love to show you the untangling, but Teresa stopped recording since she needed both hands to separate the two.

GOINS: Oh, it was in there good, I'm telling you. She had one horn wrap this way and the other horn wrap the opposite way, it took me a couple of minutes. But I was so happy I didn't have to cut its tail.

MOOS (voice over): Mission accomplished.

GOINS: She is free from Copper's tail.

MOOS (voice over): But not before there were a slew of jokes about the goat with an actual pony tail.

This is the moment a horse and a goat learned it takes two to tango.

GOINS: Are you stuck in his tail?

How did this happen?

MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN. New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALKER: So, really, the goats bleeding there? Was it really going --

BLACKWELL: I think so. Yes.

WALKER: I just sounded like it was -- it sounded funny --

(CROSSTALK)

BLACKWELL: I don't know if you go, you know, sniffing around, you might get stuck.

WALKER: There you go. That is true.

[07:55:02]

I didn't know you're that funny, Victor.

BLACKWELL: It happens sometimes.

WALKER: If T.V. news doesn't ever work out for you. The stage, comedy.

BLACKWELL: All right. from roots, to scandal, to the rise of black dramas. In the next episode of CNN original series, "SEE IT LOUD", the history of black television. Here is a look. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New York Undercover premiered in 1994, two years after the uprisings that followed the not guilty verdict in the Rodney King beating case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New York on the cover was so groundbreaking because it was one of the first shows ever to have to lead actors who were of color as detectives fighting crime. And, you know you didn't see that all the time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: FBI! FBI!

MALIK YOBA, ACTOR, NEW YORK UNDERCOVER: We represented hip hop. We were young, Black, and Latino. We were two detectives that were from the streets that decided that they wanted to be on the right side of the law and protect the community.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get the gun, I will cover you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New York Undercover was the antithesis of the must- see T.V.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: Yes --

"SEE IT LOUD: THE HISTORY OF BLACK TELEVISION", airs tomorrow night at 9:00 Eastern on CNN. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)