Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

New Polls: Trump Holds Big Leads In South Carolina, Iowa; Musk Unveils "X" Logo To Replace Twitter's Blue Bird; Investigators Begin Digging Up Gilgo Beach Suspect's Backyard. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired July 24, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:31:37]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: A new set of polls is raising fresh concerns for Ron DeSantis' presidential campaign.

Among likely South Carolina Republican primary voters, the Florida governor is now polling behind former governor Nikki Haley, sitting some 35 points below former President Trump. And if you take a look at Iowa, DeSantis is trailing Trump there by 30 points among likely caucusgoers. Tim Scott, as you can see, just behind the governor.

Both polls, put out by Fox Business, are fueling new scrutiny about DeSantis' standing in the race.

Joining us now to discuss, politics reporter at Semafor, Shelby Talcott; national politics team leader at Bloomberg, Mario Parker; and CNN political commentator, Errol Louis. Nice to see all of you with us this morning.

So when we look at these numbers it is something. We've talked about what the concerns are for the DeSantis campaign. Is it the media? Is it the money? I mean, the numbers, Errol, should probably be raising a concern or two.

What does this tell the campaign? Are they going to, do you think, take it in?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, COLUMNIST, NEW YORK MAGAZINE, HOST, "YOU DECIDE" PODCAST: Oh, they've got a real problem and they've recognized it. That's why they've had this campaign shake-up, right? They are burning through the money, right? They're spending 40 cents on every dollar that they raise. That's one problem.

And then the immediate problem is if you look at the polls, they've spent millions of dollars and he's fallen further behind. He started out in decent position as in, sort of, striking distance of Donald Trump. Now, depending on the poll you're looking at, he's 30 points behind. He's 40 points behind in the latest Harris poll and he doesn't seem to be closing that gap.

And so, if you spend a lot of money and you end up in a worse position, you've got an immediate problem. And then the larger problem, of course, is that you can't figure out which state Ron DeSantis wins in order to get --

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Well --

LOUIS: -- into this race. He's just behind in all of the early races and South Carolina is just one more example of that.

HARLOW: And that Iowa poll that you just showed, 30 points behind Trump.

Shelby, what's interesting is in the interview that Jake Tapper did with Ron DeSantis last week, he was like Iowa, Iowa, Iowa, organize, organize.

Can he pull a McCain here? Rejigger the campaign and go on to win the primary?

SHELBY TALCOTT, POLITICS REPORTER, SEMAFOR: I think it's too soon to tell. You can't obviously count him out completely. I think it's gotten a lot tougher than it was maybe three or four months ago for Ron DeSantis. Other campaigns are really seeing the opportunities now. Tim Scott's super PAC just bought $40 million in ads. He has a ton of money to spend. Even Nikki Haley of South --

HARLOW: And he's got great favorability ratings.

TALCOTT: Yes.

And so -- and so, I think it's too soon to tell. I certainly think it's notable that, as you said, he's starting to kind of reset his campaign. I think the question is is it going to be enough?

HILL: Right. And is it -- and did they miss the window.

Is the issue, too -- is the issue the campaign, Mario, or is the issue the candidate?

MARIO PARKER, NATIONAL POLITICS TEAM LEADER, BLOOMBERG: As of right now, it looks to be the candidate, right? Ron DeSantis tried so hard to avoid being the next Scott Walker, the next Jeb Bush that it's become a self-fulfilling prophecy. When you see him now it looks like he's overthinking every move, both on his part and the campaign as well. And so, at this point, it does look like it's more the candidate there.

HARLOW: OK. So let's stick on Florida for a moment because the state of Florida's legislature passed a change in the way that they teach kids about slavery, and that change -- and I'm going to read the language directly from the text of what passed because you can't argue with the words.

[07:35:00]

It says, "A clarification instruction needs to include how slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit." And on page 17 it says, "Instruction includes acts of violence perpetrated against and by African Americans." And it goes through a number of examples -- the Tulsa race massacre, et cetera.

Ron DeSantis was asked about this. Initially, sort of, deflects, Errol, and then doubles down. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I didn't do it. You know, I wasn't involved in it. But I think -- I think what they're doing is I think that they are probably going to show some of the folks that eventually parlayed being a blacksmith into doing things later in life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: While being enslaved.

LOUIS: Apparently.

HARLOW: Why is he doing that?

LOUIS: That's a history major, by the way, from Yale College.

HARLOW: Right.

LOUIS: The -- look, the reality is he has chosen these non-economic issues to run on -- to attack Black history. To attack what he calls wokeness, you know. To attack women's rights and abortion rights. Those are the issues that he thinks are going to carry him to the Republican nomination.

In this particular case, it's just a disgraceful hash of history. I mean, they just got all of it wrong. Even in the clarification, after that press conference, they put out this list of Black people to whom -- who would fit into that category.

HARLOW: Right.

LOUIS: And I think 12 of the 14 were actually freedmen. They actually had not been enslaved. I mean, they just don't know what they're talking about.

HILL: Don't let the facts get in the way of a good narrative here, right?

LOUIS: Don't let the facts get in the way of a disgraceful pander in the case of Ron DeSantis.

HILL: You know, what stood out to me, too, is there was a tweet from Will Hurd, which I think we have --

HARLOW: Yes.

HILL: -- that we can put up here where he said, "Unfortunately, it has to be said slavery wasn't a jobs program that taught beneficial skills. It was literally dehumanizing and subjugated people as property because they lacked any rights or freedoms."

That's what I keep coming back to, Mario. We should know the history. I would hope that we can all, as a country, collectively agree slavery was wrong and it was certainly not a jobs program. The fact that he does keep doubling down on this -- that there are not people around him, too, to say --

HARLOW: Stop.

HILL: -- hey, stop -- that's remarkable.

PARKER: He's severely undercutting his general election strategy that he's the candidate that can supersede Donald Trump, right? I mean, the fact is, as Errol said, this is disgraceful to defend slavery -- to double down on it.

And now we're at the point in this campaign where every couple of weeks DeSantis is doing something bizarre. Three weeks ago it was the LGBTQ video. This weekend it's doubling down on slavery was essentially a jobs program as well.

So you're seeing his campaign torpedo as he just leans into this culture war fight.

HARLOW: Let's listen to former governor Chris Christie, who is also running for the Republican nomination, because he's been focused on undercutting Trump and now he's really going after DeSantis. Here is his response to what DeSantis said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're arguing about these issues -- these smaller issues when we've got big issues in our country like runaway inflation that continues to hurt families. We're dividing our country into smaller and smaller and smaller pieces --

MARGARET BRENNAN, CBS MODERATOR, "FACE THE NATION": Yes.

CHRISTIE: -- and politicians are pitting them against each other to create conflict. And that's not going to make the country bigger, better, stronger, or freer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Part of that answer that is always the most telling to me was I didn't do it -- it wasn't my idea. It's not leadership is what Chris Christie said about DeSantis.

TALCOTT: Yes, and he has a point. And he was a point, particularly, with Ron DeSantis I think because Ron DeSantis historically has been the leader who is involved in everything. I mean, there is -- there is tons of articles out there.

And their campaign will tell you that it's really Ron DeSantis and Casey DeSantis. They make the final decisions there. They are their own advisers. And so, you can't really have both. You can't be that kind of a leader

and then also say well, this wasn't my doing, especially when you're so focused on something like education.

HARLOW: Thank you all -- Shelby, Mario, Errol -- appreciate it.

Twitter saying goodbye to the blue bird logo and hello to X. That's right. What's behind the new rebranding strategy from Elon Musk. There it is on the Twitter headquarters.

HILL: Yes.

HARLOW: We'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:44:04]

HARLOW: In Money This Morning, Elon Musk unveiling Twitter's new logo by changing his profile picture and tweeting out this X. Musk also warned of another major change, tweeting "...soon we shall bid adieu to the" bird (sic) -- "to the Twitter brand and gradually all the birds."

CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans is here. OK, so the brand change has us talking, but this is really about the bigger picture what is happening.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT, ANCHOR, "EARLY START": Yes. He wants to have an app that is for everything, and that's what his X is going to be. In the meantime here, he's changing how it looks. And it happened this morning, just a couple of hours ago. You don't see that little blue bird anymore. You see an X on the -- on the Twitter platform.

And it's interesting because he's rebranding this as something new -- getting rid of the bird, he says. But this is defined -- the bird defines this platform for 10 years. I mean, tweet, as a noun and a verb, didn't really have the power that it did before this platform made it something that we all talk about -- that so many of us talk about.

[07:45:03]

But look, he took over this company -- he took it private. He's cut ad revenue in half since that happened. He's got a billion and a half in annual interest payments. Revenue, $3 billion -- down sharply from 2021. So there have been Twitter woes since Elon Musk took over.

He is absolutely remaking this thing. It is smaller. It's going to look a lot different. And this is just the next iteration of that for one of the world's richest men.

HARLOW: You look confused --

HILL: Well, because I think I am. HARLOW: -- right? Because I --

HILL: I am. I don't -- and I probably wouldn't understand a lot of things in Elon Musk's head. In all seriousness, why you would throw away, to your point, sort of all this capital that they have --

ROMANS: I know.

HILL: -- in the world. This is a tweet. It became a noun. It became a verb.

ROMANS: Right.

HILL: It's so well known for certain things. It's one thing to change it but are you going to say -- we were talking in the break. Are you going to say oh, I X'ed instead of I tweeted? X is getting rid of things. X is --

ROMANS: I know.

HILL: -- cutting things out.

ROMANS: That's what I don't understand as well. But X has a big place in his --

HILL: Yes.

ROMANS: -- brain, right -- SpaceX. I think he might have named one of his children X.

HARLOW: Children.

ROMANS: He -- X is part -- and they already named this company x.com. When you go to x.com it automatically is rerouted --

HARLOW: Huh.

ROMANS: -- to Twitter.

But you're right. Why throw away something that is so -- a brand that is so recognizable for something that is an enigma? X is kind of an enigma, isn't it?

HILL: Yes.

ROMANS: X-ing out -- you're right. That's a good point.

HILL: Yes. I don't know.

HARLOW: Fascinating

ROMANS: We shall see. Getting in the mind of Elon Musk is always a very --

HILL: Good luck with that.

ROMANS: -- difficult place to be.

HARLOW: Thanks, Romans.

HILL: Christine, good to see you. Thanks.

Investigators turning their focus to the New York home of a suspected serial killer as they literally dig for clues. Plenty of questions for the local sheriff. He's going to join us next, live.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:50:22]

HILL: This morning, investigators will continue digging up the backyard of the alleged Gilgo Beach serial killer. These are aerial images over the Long Island home of the suspect, Rex Heuermann, from over the weekend. Investigators are using heavy equipment, as you can see there, a police dog, and ground-penetrating radar in the search.

Sources telling CNN investigators believe he may have committed the killings in his home just miles from where the remains of multiple women were found.

Now, just a reminder. At this point, police have charged Heuermann in three murders. They say he is the prime suspect in a fourth but he has not been charged in that death. Heuermann has pleaded not guilty. He's currently in jail.

Joining us now is the Suffolk County sheriff, Errol Toulon Jr. Sheriff, good to have you with us.

We should point out he's in your jail there. We were talking just a little bit in the break. I was asking you anything that may have happened overnight I should know about. And one of the things you said that stood out to me was that this is -- the investigation isn't over but there was more than we envisioned.

How much more? In what sense?

SHERIFF ERROL TOULON JR., SUFFOLK COUNTY, NEW YORK (via Webex by Cisco): Well, I think when -- first of all, good morning, and thank you for having me on.

I think when we talk about more than what we envisioned it's multistate jurisdictional now where we're searching a various residence that he owned. And so with that, I don't think any of us ever anticipated going that far and looking at any missing persons or any murders that may have occurred along the Eastern Seaboard or anything that's any commonality with this particular crime.

HILL: It feels so broad. We showed those pictures just as we were introducing you -- and I think we have them up again there -- of digging in the backyard.

What -- can you tell us the evidence that led to that decision to begin digging there? And can you tell us specifically what they may be looking for?

TOULON: You know, of course, this is an ongoing investigation and I think the most important thing that everybody needs to understand is that we need to make sure that the investigation leads us and not us leading the investigation. And so, we're still on his property. That's where that digging is occurring because it is part of his residence. And so there may have been something that alerted the investigators that they should start searching the property.

HILL: Yes.

TOULON: But there's nothing that we can disclose because it still is an active investigation.

HILL: When you talk about the other places on the Eastern Seaboard, I believe there was some property in South Carolina that based on tax records belonged to the suspect. Is that the area you're referring to or is there somewhere beyond that?

TOULON: No. Really, the South Carolina area and, of course, going west to Las Vegas --

HILL: Yes.

TOULON: -- is the areas that are currently under investigation where investigators in those states are assisting Suffolk County in this particular individual -- with this particular individual.

HILL: The suspect is being held in your jail. As I understand it, you've had a couple of different interactions with him. He hasn't had any visitors beyond speaking with attorneys, as I understand it.

What was he like in those interactions?

TOULON: You know, very stoic. And if you think about someone that two weeks ago was walking around freely, he seemed very comfortable inside of the cell. He was laying on his bunk. He still is under suicide watch, of course, and our mental health staff will be evaluating him to see if that status should continue or not.

HILL: When we look at where things stand -- I know this is a broad investigation, as we've been talking about this morning -- there are also another -- a number of other unsolved murders. Remains that were found in Gilgo Beach.

The Suffolk County Police Commissioner Rodney Harrison was asked about that and where the case stands. I just want to play what he had to say and get your take.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is this case over, from your perspective?

RODNEY HARRISON, SUFFOLK COUNTY POLICE COMMISSIONER: Not even close. You know, we still have the other six bodies that were recovered on Ocean Parkway. We have some work to do and this task force is going to stay intact. Is Rex Heuermann connected to these other bodies? Time will tell.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So there is this task force. There are questions about how long this investigation will go on. As you point out, you're letting the investigation lead you, but where do you stand on that? I mean, how long do you think this could, in fact, last?

TOULON: You know, I think that this investigation is going to last as long as it takes to make sure that every piece of evidence is gathered, every suspect, or if it's just Mr. Heuermann, will be excluded or precluded from this investigation possibly being a suspect.

[07:55:00]

I think one of the things let's just think about is that every piece of evidence that's gathered has to be tested, has to be looked at. People have to be interviewed. And so this is something -- and as I said earlier, it's a multijurisdictional investigation and so this is going to take some time.

HILL: The New York Post was reporting that police found a soundproof room in Heuermann's basement. They believe at least one of the victims was killed there. Can you confirm that?

TOULON: No, I cannot confirm that at all because the investigation is still active.

HILL: Is that -- would you deny that?

TOULON: I would deny that either.

HILL: So neither confirm nor deny.

As we wait for more details -- because as you said, the investigation is not over yet -- is there one thing that has surprised you in this last week or so?

TOULON: You know, in our dealings with Heuermann, we have had some media that has attempted to reach out to him. My concern right now outside of the investigation is to make sure that Mr. Heuermann is brought to justice in the courts and not in our jails. And so, we're taking every measure to make sure that happens.

HILL: Sheriff Errol Toulon, I really appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.

TOULON: Thank you for having me on.

HILL: Poppy.

HARLOW: Really telling, Erica. Thank you very much.

Meantime, this morning, significant protests in Israel as lawmakers begin voting on a bill that could leave the judiciary -- the Supreme Court of Israel essentially unchecked. We'll take you live to Jerusalem.

HILL: Texas officials facing a deadline today to enter talks over what the DOJ is calling dangerous and illegal floating barriers in the Rio Grande. Just ahead, we'll speak to Republican Congressman Tony Gonzales, who represents a border district in Texas, on his take.

(COMMERCIAL)