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CNN This Morning

Rep. Tony Gonzales (R-TX) Interviewed on Texas Governor Greg Abbott's Controversial Floating Barrier along U.S.-Mexico Border; Thousands Protest in Streets of Jerusalem as Parliament Votes to Possibly Reduce Power of Israeli Supreme Court; Ukraine Takes Credit for Drone Strikes on Moscow after Russian Forces Strike Ukrainian City of Odesa. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired July 24, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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TZIVIA GUGGENHEIM, STUDENT: I think if this law passes, it's just part of a bigger story of the judicial coup. And we're going to be here to fight it step by step. We're not going home. We're not going anywhere. We're going to be on the streets, we're going to be stay on the streets. We were here for half-a-year, and we will be here as long as it takes.

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POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. We're glad you're with us. Right now, a pivotal day in Israel's history is unfolding. As we speak, hundreds of thousands of protesters taking to the streets as lawmakers vote to potentially severely weaken the country's Supreme Court.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Texas is facing a crucial deadline just hours from now, as the Justice Department demands the removal of a floating barrier at the border. We'll speak to the Republican congressman whose district lies along the Rio Grande.

HARLOW: And an historic weekend at the box office. Did you go to the movies? A lot of people did. The "Barbenheimer" sensation taking the nation by storm. We'll break down which movie came out on top. This hour of CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

This is where we begin this morning. A battle between Texas and the Justice Department over those floating barriers at the southern border. That battle coming to a head today. Just hours from now, Republican Governor Greg Abbott is facing a crucial deadline. The DOJ threatening to sue if he doesn't commit to removing the barriers that Texas set up in the Rio Grande to repel migrants. The governor is refusing to budge. He says his state has, quote, sovereign authority to defend the border. Joining us now is Republican Congressman of Texas Tony Gonzales. His

district stretches across the majority of Texas's southern border with Mexico, along 800 miles along the Rio Grande. We appreciate you being with us this morning.

REP. TONY GONZALES, (R-TX): Good morning. Thank you for having me.

HARLOW: According to the Biden administration, in just a week, CPB agents reported a number of disturbing things, including dozens of migrants with injuries, broken limbs, drownings, and that includes several children, babies, really, under the age of one. Do you, Congressman, support Governor Abbott's use of these floating barriers and what is happening right now there?

GONZALES: The barriers, I think, it's a small portion of the overall amount of border on the river, but they're very popular. I think for folks that want to see something different and that want to see this come to an end, they're very popular. It is all very tragic, though. It's absolutely horrible the amount of people that have died along this very dangerous trek. Last year, there were 856 migrants that perished. The year before that, 568. So something has to change. But I don't know if the buoys are necessarily the answer, but it certainly -- we have got to look beyond that.

HARLOW: Congressman, I ask you because this is your district. You say they're popular, but do you support it? Let me show you some images that came from Texas DPS. These are images of injuries that have happened for migrants. And I don't have to tell you, you've read the reporting, "The New York Times" reporting on a number of migrants there who have talked about being cut underwater by barbed wire. Texas DPS trooper and paramedic Nicholas Wingate sent that email to his supervisors detailing how concerned he was.

Let me read you some of those concerns about what's happening. Quote, "We were given orders to push people back into the water to go back to Mexico." He read about a four-year-old little girl who tried to cross and was told to go back, then she passed out because of exhaustion. He also wrote about experiencing a 19-year-old woman who was in pain because of the wire and was doubled over, and this was all happening as she was pregnant and having a miscarriage. So do you support what Governor Abbott is doing there?

GONZALES: I support the buoys, because they are a deterrent in preventing people from entering the country illegally. But we have to be compassionate in how we handle anyone. I don't care who they are, I don't care regardless of their legal status. I would much rather see not one person have to step one foot in that water, because it is dangerous. You're going to drown, you're going to get injured.

But the reality is, many people are leaving very desperate situations in Venezuela and Nicaragua and all throughout the country, all throughout the world. But I don't want to see them get in the river at all. And I hope when they see these buoys, they turn around. But I also don't want to see any law enforcement not hand out water, not treat people with humanity. But you have this -- it's always somebody else's fault but mine, and it's always somebody else that's going to solve it. I'm of the mindset, let's come together. This isn't a Democrat or a Republican issue. How do we just fix it? My district wants it solved.

HARLOW: Have you spoken to Governor Abbott about this?

GONZALES: I have not.

[08:05:00]

I have not spoken with him. I have spoken with some DPS folks and others on the ground. I often get my information directly from those on the ground that are doing the work. And the part that bothers me is before you would see DPS and Border Patrol agents, federal and state, working together very closely. And now I'm seeing a bigger divide and a bigger bit of animosity that's growing there, which can be dangerous.

HARLOW: The Justice Department in its letter to Governor Abbott threatening legal action says that the state of Texas is violating federal law. They also write about humanitarian concerns, and they specifically mention the buoys that they believe violate the law and some international treaties. But they also write about, quote, related structures. And you've seen the evidence of some of those migrants stepping on that wire, which they say has been underwater. And that's where they're encountering it. If you were governor, would you continue this operation?

GONZALES: I'm not too sure if I would use the razor wire as a deterrent. I would much rather see working with Congress and working with the White House for a real solution. These aren't real solutions. These are roadblocks that are just historically aren't going to solve this problem.

This problem gets solved when people stop making that trek. And part of, I think, of stop making that trek is going down the route of legal pathways. Right now, there are very few legal pathways. Nine out of ten people are claiming asylum. They're not going to qualify for asylum. They're going to have to live their lives in the shadows forever.

I introduced a bill. It's called the Hire Act. It has a dozen Republicans, half a dozen Democrats, endorsed by 40 outside groups, the Farm Bureau, the U.S. Chamber, the Hispanic Chamber, some immigration groups as well. And I think we need to get people that want to come over here for economic purposes to come through the front door. Imagine if you didn't have to be smuggled in a train.

HARLOW: I want to end on the Hire Act, because you do have pretty broad bipartisan support, but before we do that, it's significant that you're saying that what Greg Abbott, your governor, Republican governor, is doing, is not a real solution. So what the Hire Act would do, you just explained that. I thought it was interesting that "The San Antonio Express" says it is a bill that merits support, and they write, quote, "We have had our fair share of disagreements with," you, "with Representative Gonzales, but he has repeatedly modeled bipartisanship and has invested in finding solutions. While this is a narrow bill that falls within a large, complicated system, it serves as a model and holds promise for future reforms." Do you believe that this bill would directly decrease the number of migrants crossing the border in your district illegally?

GONZALES: I do. And the number one reason is it would get us to stop talking about illegal immigration and focusing so much on the blame game that you see go back and forth, and more focused on, wait a second, how do we funnel more people here legally, through the legal route? Not pathway to citizenship, not some of these other things that are very contentious, but work visas. There are shortages in every single industry. If you are tired of waiting 30 minutes to get a beer, the Hire Act can help you. If you're tired of waiting two weeks to see a doctor because there's a lack of nurses, the Hire Act can help you. So it's a tangible solution.

But more importantly, how do you just get Congress to work again? How do you get Democrats and Republicans come together? You see these images, you hear these stories. It should pull at everybody's heartstrings. The Americans lives that are impacted that live along my district because of this crisis, it can all come to an end if we can start to focus on real tangible solutions. The Hire Act isn't intended to solve everything, but it's intended to make one step forward in the 118th Congress so that way we can take another step, and then all of a sudden maybe we're walking before we're running.

HARLOW: We will see if the speaker agrees with you and views it as with merit to bring to the floor. Thank you very much, Congressman Tony Gonzales.

GONZALES: Thank you.

HILL: Turning our attention now to Jerusalem, thousands of protesters are in the streets, hundreds of businesses are closed on what could be one of the most consequential days in Israel's history. Supporters are also in the streets there, embracing the potential change. Lawmakers are voting on part of the government's plan to curb the power of Israel's Supreme Court. And we actually just learned that the proceedings may be ahead of schedule. There could actually be a vote very soon.

CNN's Hadas Gold is live in Jerusalem. She's been following all of this very closely, frankly, following it for months. So Hadas, where do we stand at this hour?

HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So we are right now outside of the Israeli Supreme Court. This is the road to the Israeli parliament. That's why you see so many protesters here. And actually, what they're doing right now is they're gathered around screens that are showing the live action on the parliament, because any minute now we are expecting the votes to commence for the second and then final readings on this legislation.

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You can hear, of course, protesters around me are chanting. They're chanting things like "shame" to the members of parliament. They're chanting things like "democracy." We know that protesters have been trying to make their way to as close to the parliament as possible, but police are blocking them. Police have said that they've arrested at least 19 protesters so far. We've seen them use things like water cannons to try to disperse protesters, although I do have to say, it's almost 95 degrees, so the water cannons might actually be a welcome relief to some of these protestors here.

But the heat is not stepping them from coming out, because for them, this legislation, they believe, would give the government unfettered power to do what it wants without a check on the government, because this legislation is trying to strip the Supreme Court's ability way of declaring, of stopping government actions and saying that they are unreasonable.

We've seen a flurry of reports that there's reports of ministers trying to work to a consensus, work to try to delay this vote in some capacity. But all indications are pointing that Benjamin Netanyahu and his government are going to be pushing ahead. We could see action in the next few minutes if they halt the voting on the parliamentary floor. That's why you're hearing these protesters starting to get louder and louder, because they want the lawmakers inside parliament to hear their shouts.

Now, we've heard from President Joe Biden in the last 24 hours. We've heard from thousands of Israel military reservists saying that they will not serve if this legislation passes. Benjamin Netanyahu himself was in the hospital getting a pacemaker just about 24 hours ago, and he came essentially straight from the hospital here from the parliament because he feels that this needs to be pushed for. Also, he's getting a lot of pressure internally from his own coalition partners that they need to get this through, otherwise, it could topple his own government, it could topple him from power.

So we're about to really reach the nadir of this drama right now. Votes in parliament expected to take place in the next few minutes. Protesters here getting louder and louder by the minute. Guys?

HILL: That is something. Hadas, appreciate it. We'll continue to check in with you, and of course, keep us posted on any of those developments. Thank you.

HARLOW: New this morning, Ukraine is taking credit for the drone attack -- attacks, I should say -- on Moscow overnight. An official says that CNN's Ukraine defense agency was responsible for the strikes. The Russian military says two attack drones crashed into buildings after being intercepted with electronic warfare. One of them hit a Russian defense ministry building that houses the military's orchestra. The other reports no injuries there. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy had vowed retaliation after a week of deadly strikes on the city of Odesa. That's where we find Alex Marquardt. He is not only in Odesa. He is inside a historic cathedral that was badly damaged from those strikes. Walk us through what you're seeing.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, that is a remarkable claim of responsibility by Ukraine for that drone attack on Moscow, and it does come after these incredibly intense strikes for basically the past week on this city. And so much of the damage has been here in the city center, the historic center of Odesa, which is a UNESCO world heritage site. Some 25 different architectural monuments have been damaged.

We are in the main cathedral, the biggest cathedral, Orthodox Cathedral in Odesa. It has been severely damaged. This is the length of the cathedral. You can see back there, some -- a blackened area. We understand an electrical fire was started after the missile strike. Workers have been working around the clock since the strike to try to clear the debris from here. We're trying to stay out of the way. That's why we're wearing these hard hats that they've asked us to wear.

And I'm going to ask Scott (ph) McQueen (ph), my cameraman, to just pan up. You can see this beautiful ceiling where frescos have been destroyed. And then up in the dome there, the windows have been blown out. Just extraordinary damage to this magnificent cathedral. And then if we come around this way, up there is the altar. You can see there the pillars are on their side or leaning over. And were it not for that wall there, that entire thing likely would have collapsed.

And then finally, over here in this corner, this is where most of the destruction has taken place -- pouring through because there is no more roof. That is where we understand that the rocket came crashing through, going down at least two floors. This hard marble floor completely pockmarked by debris that carved out these pockets in that marble.

Guys, this really does speak to what we've heard from Ukrainian officials calling for more air defenses in the wake of these extraordinary strikes in Odesa. President Zelenskyy himself saying what is needed now is fend off this Russian terror is a full-fledged sky shield. Guys?

HARLOW: Before you go, some of these strikes are coming very close to the Romanian side of the Danube River. And that begs the question, what does that mean as the war inches closer and closer and closer with these Russian strikes to NATO territory?

MARQUARDT: Well, there was a strike earlier today by Russian drones against what we understand to be a grain infrastructure, right along the border with Romania.

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That border between Romania and Ukraine is -- they are separated there by the Danube River and it is remarkably close to NATO territory.

We have seen some of the fighting spillover into Poland there before, a Ukrainian air defense missile falling in Poland, but this is a Russian missile coming very close to NATO territory.

It just speaks to the fact that this fighting is all across the country. We're here in Odesa, which is nowhere near a frontline, and yet Russia has been pummeling this city. They have been hitting Lviv, which is near to Poland, and now, this

area, this border area near to Romania. It certainly is going to raise the alert level of NATO countries. We're going to hear some discussions about Article 5.

Of course, if Russia were to decide to strike a NATO country, and we're very far from that right now, but if that were the case, and of course, the NATO Article 5 means that other NATO Allies would come to the defense of that country.

So this is an extraordinarily close strike to NATO territory -- Poppy and Erica.

HARLOW: It really is. Alex, thank you for giving us that perspective. We appreciate it.

Alex Marquardt, reporting for us live in Odesa, Ukraine this morning.

HILL: New this morning, the UN Command says conversations have started with North Korea about US Army private, Travis King. He, of course, is the soldier who crossed the DMZ into the country last week.

He has not been seen or heard from since.

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LT. GEN. ANDREW HARRISON, DEPUTY COMMANDER, US-LED UNITED NATIONS COMMAND: The conversation has commenced with the KPA through the mechanisms of the Armistice Agreement.

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HILL: King was facing transfer back to the US after being convicted of assault in South Korea. Military officials though say, it is unclear why he willfully crossed without authorization.

HARLOW: So we're less than a month away from the first Republican primary debate. What former President Trump is hinting at maybe doing instead of getting on that stage to debate his Republican rivals.

HILL: Plus, a tornado destroying this Pfizer plant in North Carolina. The damage done to the company's drug inventory, what that could mean for you, just ahead.

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HILL: Oh, the latest question looming over the 2024 race. Will Donald Trump show up to the first Republican presidential primary debate or could he perhaps instead attend a separate event?

Just yesterday, Trump responded to a Truth Social post suggesting that he should do a -- whether he should do a one-on-one interview with Tucker Carlson the night of the Fox debate. Trump responding: "Interesting." So many people have suggested this.

Literally that made Harry Enten laugh, our senior data reporter. A little chuckle from you. Reality. Trump may or may not show up. He did meet the donor threshold, he did meet the polling threshold. Who else?

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HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes, so right now we have six candidates. You mentioned the former president, Ron DeSantis, Tim Scott, Nikki Haley, Chris Christie, and Vivek Ramaswamy have all met both of those thresholds. So those six candidates at this point, it looks like they will be on the stage, of course, only if they want to be.

I'll note that there are two other folks who are at least close to making the debate, the former Vice President Mike Pence. He has hit the poll criteria, but not the donor one, and Doug Burgum, the North Dakota governor says he has hit the donor criteria, but not the poll one.

So right now, we're a stage of six if Trump decides to debate, but we could go to eight and then there are a bunch of other people who might not be close at this point to meeting that poll and donor threshold, but we'll see what happens the closer we get to that debate.

HARLOW: A lot of Republican candidates are turning their attention to Tim Scott, interestingly, because he is polling so well, especially in terms of his favorability, right?

ENTEN: Yes, so this, to me is one of the most interesting questions, right? We've been talking about a two-way race, you know, in terms of Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis. But what happens as these other candidates become better known? And Tim Scott is one of those, because I want you to take a look here.

This is the favorable ratings for Scott, Trump, and DeSantis among Republican voters who hold a viewpoint of all three, right? We've eliminated those without an opinion. Look, who has the highest favorable rating amongst this group. It's Tim Scott at 89 percent. That's higher than Donald Trump's 82 percent, and Ron DeSantis, is 81 percent.

And I think the question is, will Scott move up in the polls the better known he becomes? I want you to take a look here. This is Iowa, New Hampshire, fresh polling out over the last week. Look, Donald Trump is still well ahead in both these states, but look who rounds out the top three.

It's Tim Scott, who is moving up in the polls. So this is the question, will this two-way race become a three-way race, especially as a lot of Republicans perhaps have soured a little bit on Ron DeSantis in this.

HARLOW: Fascinating Harry, thank you very much.

ENTEN: Thank you.

HARLOW; The extreme heat posing problems in more ways than one including increasing the tick population. That's right, how to best protect yourself and your family. That's next. HILL: Also, a nightmare in Greece as massive wildfires forced

thousands of residents and tourists to pack up and leave, often at just a moment's notice. We're going to take you there, just ahead.

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HARLOW: Scenes of chaos and fear this morning as wildfires rage in Southern Greece. Thousands of tourists and residents have been forced to flee their homes and hotels, some have described just harrowing journeys running from flames at their backs.

Tourists now sleeping at airports, waiting to fly home, and officials say firefighters continue to battle dozens of fires across the country.

Our Sam Kiley is live in Greece with more reporting. These fires have been going on for more than a week. Evacuations like this, pretty unprecedented, right?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there have been an impressive response, both by Greek civilians and indeed by the authorities to what unfolded in Rhodes, but arguably the poor old Greeks have had a lot of practice for this, and they know that there is worse to come, Poppy.

The Greek prime minister has just announced that what he believes is the country is effectively in a state of war. He hasn't declared war or declared a state of emergency, of course, he's speaking rhetorically, but what he's saying is and did say is that more of this kind of horrific event is certain to occur in the Southern Mediterranean, not just in Greece.

But this is how it unfolded in Rhodes.

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KILEY (voice over): It's a regular visitor wildfire, and no one knows where or when it will strike. This is tourism in the 21st century.

The latest maelstrom in Southern Europe, Rhodes, an island of ancient ruins facing a modern apocalypse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't usually swear, but what the [bleep].

KILEY: Intense heatwaves have turned forest into desiccated tinder, yearning for a spark to roar into flame, and anything that fails to flee the inferno has little chance of survival.

Greek authorities have evacuated tens of thousands from popular resorts at peak season, and the government says it's the largest such operation in the country's history.

KEVIN SALES, BRITISH TOURIST: All our money, passports, clothing. We had to lend a woman some of my wife's clothes because she had nothing to wear. It is terrible.

KILEY (voice over): British tour operators are flying empty planes here to bring desperate tourists home.

KILEY (on camera): Powerful winds have made life just about bearable for people on these islands living through this heatwave, but those self-safe winds are fanning the flames of these infernos.

KILEY (voice over): And the problem is spreading. The latest overnight, the island of Corfu, where thousands have now been evacuated, and police are bolstering their ranks in anticipation of more to come.

The Greek government has been battling wildfires across the country for a week, during what's expected to be the longest heatwave this country has ever seen.

As temperature records are shattered across Europe and the world, every day our planet has become slightly more unlivable.

POPE FRANCIS (through translator): We are experiencing, here and in many countries extreme climatic events. Please, I renew my appeal to the leaders of the nations to do something more concrete to limit polluting emissions.

It is an urgent challenge and cannot be put off. It concerns everyone. Let us protect our common home.

KILEY (voice over): As heatwaves and fires are escalating yearly in Southern Europe, the threat is now even perhaps to the pontiff's own home.

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KILEY (on camera): Now, Poppy, the long-term reality is now also in Europe, in conflict with short-term politics in countries like the United Kingdom. The British prime minister there, Rishi Sunak, suggesting that his government may backtrack on its targets to hit net zero because of the austerity that that country is enduring.

Meanwhile, of course, as I said, the Greek prime minister is effectively saying that his country is at war against fire and climate change and that that is going to be the case right across the Mediterranean for as long as anybody can see -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Yes, no end in sight for all of this.

Sam Kiley, really appreciate the reporting live from Greece.

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