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Julie Foudy is Interviewed about the World Cup; Judge Puts Hunter Biden Plea Deal on Hold; Adam Frank is Interviewed about UFO Transparency. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired July 27, 2023 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:32:33]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: U.S. Captain Lindsey Horan scoring a header in the second half of last night's World Cup match against the Netherlands to tie the game. This highly anticipated matchup between defending champs, U.S. Women's National Team and the Netherlands. It was also a rematch of the 2019 World Cup final.

After a little bit of a rocky start, the U.S. rallied in the second half to pull off that tie.

Joining us now to take us through some of the highlights, TNT soccer analyst and two-time FIFA women's World Cup champion Julie Foudy.

Julie, it's great to see you this morning.

I was watching highlights this morning, since it was a little past my bedtime. I mean what -- what a game, but also, it was a little bit of a struggle in the first half it seems.

JULIE FOUDY, TNT SOCCER ANALYST: Yes, it was - it was a lot of a struggle in the first half, actually. It was very clunky. And we haven't really seen the best of the U.S. team yet in this tournament. And so we saw this in the first half. Typically against better teams the U.S. does better, but they struggled a little bit in the first half. Came out in that second half and had a brighter start in it. Saw that goal by Lindsey Horan actually gave them a big lift.

But, overall, it still wasn't a great performance for the United States. And - and they thought coming into this game they had a win in their first game so they were sitting on three points. Another win against the Netherlands would have clicked the group for sure and gotten them through. So now they find themselves in a bit more precarious position because they're only sitting on four points with that tie.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Do you think this motivates them against -- it's Portugal, right, next, or does it - does it -

FOUDY: No, Portugal -

HARLOW: Does the clunkiness affect them and make them more clunky?

FOUDY: Hopefully no. Hopefully they come out and actually have a really good performance against Portugal.

HARLOW: Yes.

FOUDY: And the thing is, is they know -- they really -- they have to win or tie. If they lose against Portugal, they are out of it. Portugal sits at 3 points. The U.S. is at 4 points. And so it's in their hands still, of course, but they've got to get a win or a draw out of it.

And so, you know, they were hoping - they came into this last game in probably a bit better position. So, I think they'll be a bit disappointed in that.

HILL: Yes.

FOUDY: Because they did have a lot of good in the second half against the Dutch and they just couldn't get that three points.

But it's still in their hands. There's still a lot to be optimistic about because they could get through easily against Portugal. This is their first tournament at a - a first time at a World Cup. So, I'm -- I'm not going all negative on the USA.

[06:35:00]

HILL: No. No, no, no. We'll hold -- we're definitely looking glass half full here. Definitely not done yet.

FOUDY: Yes.

HILL: But when you - you know, as you mentioned, there are a lot of players on this team for whom this is their first World Cup. What do you think those conversations are, especially from some of the more seasoned players as they move towards that next match?

FOUDY: Yes, well, you have 14 players on this roster of 23 who are in their first World Cup. But you also have the likes of Megan Rapinoe, who didn't see time on the field today, and Kelley O'Hara and an Alex Morgan, who played today. So, you do have a lot of good veteran players. You know, those three alone have played in four World Cups. This is their fourth World Cup. So, they are having a lot of conversations right now saying, hey, look, not the performance we wanted but we're going to be fine. We're going to be fine. They're talking, you know, in the locker room and in the hallways and in the hotel rooms about the fact that this is what this U.S. team does. They're resilient. They come back. They fight. And so I think you will see a very resilient fighting group in this last match against Portugal because they know they've got to get a result.

HARLOW: I'd put the smart money on them.

Julie, thank you very much.

FOUDY: Sure (ph). Right (ph).

HILL: Hunter Biden's plea deal now on hold. Does it also provide another opening for Republican lawmakers who slammed the agreement. We're going to take a look at that, how it's playing politically. Scott Jennings and John Avlon here in the studio with us next.

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[06:40:03]

HARLOW: So, this morning, something that almost no one expected 24 hours ago, Hunter Biden does not have a plea deal, is still under active investigation, and is no closer to putting his legal woes in the rearview mirror. And while his legal team scrambles to find a fix after yesterday's hearing essentially fell apart, Republicans are pouncing. It is giving the party a new reason to keep pressing forward with their investigations, cry foul over an alleged sweetheart deal.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): I think it's all driven by the whistleblowers and their - and just how credible those individuals are. And the fact that their testimony has not wavered.

REP. RALPH NORMAN (R-SC): Well, it collapsed because it was a sweetheart deal from a family that was being protected.

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): Hunter Biden is getting a sweetheart deal that no other American who wasn't rich and had a father who's the president would ever get. Ever.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): If you believe the whistleblowers and what they're saying, know this was a sweetheart deal. It was corrupt in terms of how it was handled.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Just point of fact here. One of those whistleblowers is going to join us on the program later.

In court, nothing came up about the whistleblower allegations. In fact, all three parties, the judge, the prosecutors and the defense counsel all agree that this judge, and this court and this hearing had no say or power to reinvestigate given those - given those allegations by the whistleblowers.

OK, with us to discuss what we know from this court hearing, CNN's senior political analyst John Avlon, CNN political commentator Scott Jennings. He worked on several campaigns for Mitch McConnell. He spoke with the minority leader yesterday after he froze at the podium. We're going to talk to him about that in a moment. But first to Hunter Biden.

Jim Jordan, Lindsay Graham, they know -- they know what happened in court. They know that the whistleblower's allegations were not at all part of why this fell apart. But they're saying it anyways.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, I think fundamentally Republicans believe that there's so much more there with Hunter Biden that this plea agreement, as it had been reported, was simply not sufficient. And --

HARLOW: That's fine, but that's not why the judge questioned it.

JENNINGS: Sure. But to them - I mean, look, I mean, they're not here to - they're not here to give you a legal analysis, they're here to give you the best political spin on this. And the - and the - and the political spin for them is true. Hunter Biden was involved in a lot of issues regarding foreign entities. A lot of money changed hands. There's been a lot of allegations about who knew what, why were they getting this money, foreign entanglements. And so for them to continue to talk about this, they think there's a direct link to Joe Biden. And so I suspect it's going to be an ongoing topic for the Republicans. I'm glad the judge, as a Republican, stood up for herself on this and didn't get steam rolled.

This foreign lobbying issue, it's a real issue. It's a real criminal law. And there are legitimate questions about whether he skirted that one as long - along with the tax laws he evaded.

HILL: So, it was also clear yesterday that this is still an ongoing investigation, which is part of why this plea agreement fell apart.

JENNINGS: Yes. Right.

HILL: You know, our good friend Shan Wu pointing out today, there was sort of a little win in this pause for both sides. Yes, Republicans can continue to talk - can continue to talk about it. But the fact, too, that this is an ongoing investigation. That may actually make it a little harder in some cases for Republicans to get some of the information that they're after.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: That may indeed be the case but I think it really illustrates the fundamental sort of mislawyering that occurred, which is the Hunter Biden defense team thought everything was going to be covered with very little basis. And this - you know, this plea agreement essentially was about taxes and guns and they thought it would cover everything, and there was very little reason for them to suggest - to believe that, especially given that, as you pointed out earlier, you know, the David Weiss, the prosecutor appointed by the Trump administration originally, said that there was an ongoing investigation. They apparently hadn't clarified that.

So, this is a bit of a pause. Republicans will look for political gain. There may very well be reasons to investigate the larger questions of money further. But this was a fundamental failure of lawyering with a lot of political implications. But don't expect Republicans to have fidelity to the facts in the case over the narrative they're trying to pursue and the investigations that probably should occur.

JENNINGS: Well, they would say that the facts of the case haven't been fully given to the public. I mean they - they -- Republicans on Capitol Hill think there's a lot of information here that's being hidden from the public. That's why they had the whistleblowers come to Congress. I heard you say you're going to interview one. I think that's -

HARLOW: Yes, Joseph Ziegler will be here in the 8:00 a.m. hour.

JENNINGS: I think that's great. And so for as long as this has been going on, Republicans have believed a lot of things are being - are being hidden from the public to protect Joe Biden. And so more facts are coming out. And that's a good thing. Transparency here for Joe Biden. He's the president. It's deserved.

HARLOW: Can - we really want to -- you talked to Mitch McConnell yesterday.

JENNINGS: Yes.

HARLOW: Everyone is worried because he froze for 23 seconds at the podium, and this comes after several falls and a concussion. Is he OK?

JENNINGS: He's OK. I talked to him yesterday evening. You know, after he had his moment at the podium, he went back to the press conference and answered several questions.

HARLOW: Yes.

JENNINGS: He was telling me about his schedule yesterday. After the press conference he met with Kevin McCarthy. Then he had several meetings. Then he called me. Then he went and made a speech at a dinner. Then late last night he went down to the floor and they had some votes on NDAA. And he was down there for a while.

[06:45:03]

So, he kept up a - he did more yesterday than I did after - after his moment.

I've spent a fair amount of time with him. I talk to him and communicate with him fairly often. He sounded fine on the phone to me and he was telling me about all the things he was going to get done this week. So, I didn't detect anything other than normal Mitch McConnell in his voice.

HILL: Nothing sounded off to - off?

JENNINGS: No. No.

HILL: And - and anybody else in his orbit raising concerns to you?

JENNINGS: Well, look, anytime you see somebody that you care about have a moment, of course - of course you have concerns. I mean I've known this man since I was 16 years old and care about him very much. And so, of course, you have concerns. But I had the benefit of actually getting a chance to talk to him and hear his voice and listen to him talk about what he was doing with himself over -- yesterday and over the next few days, and he didn't - he didn't sound like somebody who was any different to me than I've known him for the last several months. And I've spent some time with him since his fall and I -- he sounded like a guy who was very focused on his job.

AVLON: Look, this is the kind of thing that should be understood by Americans to be well beyond partisan politics. It was hard to watch. And I think all folks should wish him well and recovery and good health. And I think that's the kind of spirit we need to see more of in our politics.

HARLOW: And we heard that from Chuck Schumer immediately yesterday as well.

AVLON: Yes.

JENNINGS: Yes.

HARLOW: Thank you both very, very much.

We'll continue to follow that.

HILL: Also happening, some pretty out of this world statements being made during a House hearing on UFOs.

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DAVID GRUSCH, FORMER U.S. INTELLIGENCE OFFICIAL: Biologics (INAUDIBLE)

REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): Were they, I guess, human or non-human biologics?

GRUSCH: Non-human.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Non-human. That's what a former U.S. intelligence official said about what the government may know, may have in its possession. A lot of talk about what we call UFOs, the real term, UAPs. We're going to get into all of that just ahead.

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HILL: So, what you're about to hear may sound more like it's something from the "X Files." Remember that TV show? But it has nothing to do with Hollywood or TV. This is being said on Capitol Hill at a House Oversight Subcommittee hearing which was held yesterday.

[06:50:06]

Testimony from three former military officials there talking about UAPs, unidentified aerial phenomena. We may call them UFOs. One of the people who testified is David Grusch. He's a former U.S. intelligence official who worked on the Pentagon's task force that's been looking into UAPs. And he claimed, under oath, that he has been told the government is not only in possession of a non-human spacecraft, but also what he referred to as non-human biologics. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): Do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft?

DAVID GRUSCH, FORMER U.S. INTELLIGENCE OFFICIAL: As I've stated publicly already in my "News Nation" interview, biologics came with some of these recoveries, yes.

MACE: Were they, I guess, human or non-human biologics?

GRUSCH: Non-human. And that was the assessment of people with direct knowledge on the program I talked to that are currently still on the program.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And have you seen any of the bodies?

GRUSCH: That's something I've - I've not witnessed myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: In a statement, a Pentagon spokeswoman said the task force has, quote, not discovered any verifiable information to substantiate those claims.

Let's bring in professor of astrophysics at the University of Rochester, Adam Frank. He's also the author of "The Little Book of Aliens," which explores the age-old question of whether we are alone in this universe or not. It's due out in October.

Professor, thank you for being here.

I wonder what you make of Grusch's testimony?

ADAM FRANK, PROFESSOR OF ASTROPHYSICS, UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER: Well, first of all, it's great that people are interested in the stuff I study, as a scientist, you know, in terms of life in the universe. But the real question is, does any of what we heard yesterday, from a scientific point of view, point to life in the universe outside of earth. And the answer is, no, in terms of hard data.

You know, the Grusch testimony, that -- if you look at the history of UFOs, this is a very old thing where like even in the 1950s there was the first UFO study that the government conducted. And the guy -- the military commander who was in charge of that, a year later, two years later, after he retired, published a book saying there was a top- secret document that said UFOs were aliens. No one's ever found that document after 70 years of trying.

And so like this is not new of people saying, oh, I've heard from somebody who heard from somebody, but there's never any evidence. It's great that they have these hearings. I think it's great that, you know, we try and get, you know, below the government, you know, whatever is going on with the government when it comes to this. But I think, you know, it's quite possible that in 70 years we're going to be having -- still having hearings and there will still be no spaceship. So, as a scientist, my thing is like, show me the spaceship.

HILL: So, you want to see the -- show me the spaceship. Show me the science. We spoke with one of the former Navy fighter pilots who testified yesterday. We spoke with him on Tuesday and he said, part of his push here too is, he wants not only greater transparency but he wants it to be easier for folks to come forward when they do see something.

How important is that -

FRANK: Yes.

HILL: That there be an avenue that does not come with some form of retaliation, which is a fear for many people?

FRANK: You know, I want to distinguish between the Grosch testimony, which says we have alien spaceships in somebody's garage, right, and the pilots. I think the pilots were very courageous for coming forward. Because the only way you're ever going to be able to figure out what these things are, and I think it's much more likely it's about national defense than, you know, life on another planet, is by having these kinds of open conversations.

You know, when science looked at these, when that NASA panel, when it looked at exactly that one you're showing right now, which -- when it came out, that video, people are like, oh, my God, what is this thing? It's traveled so fast. It turns out, you do a little science on it and it turns out to be going at 40 miles an hour, right? So that's a pretty weak alien if that's what that is.

But the pilot testimony I think is so important because when we look at these kinds of events, we find that only 6 percent are unexplainable, right? The other 94 percent are explainable. But it's the kind of thing that the pilots talked about yesterday. Those kinds of sightings lie in that 6 percent. And so we've got to do -- the only way to solve this is to have open, transparent science, and that's the way we'll figure out what these things are.

But it shouldn't detract from what's going on in science right now, which is where, you know, we're using the James Webb Space Telescope, we're at the verge of really being able to find life on distant alien planet where is you expect alien life to be.

HARLOW: Yes.

Do you think this hearing was beneficial for the American people?

FRANK: Excuse me? I'm sorry, I didn't hear that.

HARLOW: Do you think this hearing was beneficial for the American people yesterday?

FRANK: Yes, I think it's good that people talk about this. There's been so much obfuscation. You know, the whole history of UFOs is -- there's some pretty crazy stuff going on with that. And I think it's great that this comes out. I think what's great is for people, like with the NASA panel, for

people to see how science works. That's the most important part of this is for people to understand how science reaches its conclusions because, look, science is why airplanes don't fall out of the sky and why your medicines don't kill you.

[06:55:09]

And so this most important question, people have been arguing about life in the universe for 2,500 years, and, you know, we don't want to believe, we want to know.

HARLOW: Yes.

FRANK: And so this opens up for people understanding how the science works and how we'll reach that conclusion, which will probably be through telescopes, not through looking at the sky. I think it's great because the American public needs to understand how science works so we don't have more science denial.

HARLOW: Well, Professor, thank you very much for joining us. Look forward to reading "The Little Book of Aliens."

HILL: Yes, the book in October.

Adam Frank, thank you.

FRANK: Yes, thank you.

HARLOW: Ahead, what new U.S. intelligence is saying about Ukraine's counter offensive and the weakness Ukrainian forces have discovered in Russia's defensive lines.

HILL: And what many economists thought was inevitable, well, it's not looking so certain this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEROME POWELL, CHAIR, FEDERAL RESERVE: But given the resilience of the economy recently, they are no longer forecasting a recession.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: More on that. Plus, the Federal Reserve's latest decision on interest rates just ahead.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Hunter Biden's plea deal hanging in limbo, raising new questions about where this leaves the president's son and his legal team.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The judge raising questions on the gun diversion. She said she wasn't sure it was constitutional. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The whole point of plea agreements is to ensure

that the defendants' rights are protected.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only thing the judge decided is, this is not a deal.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Questions about the health of Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, after he stopped talking mid-sentence and froze during a news conference.

[07:00:07]

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): Well, the president called to check on me.