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CNN This Morning

New Charges Filed Against Trump, Including Obstruction; Concerns Mount After Feinstein Gets Confused, McConnell Freezes; Once Homeless Student Reunites With Officer Who Helped Him. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired July 28, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: You do not believe in any way that Trump knew or believed he was doing anything wrong or illegal. You've read the superseding indictment. Do you still believe that?

DAVID SCHOEN, ATTORNEY FOR STEVE BANNON, TRUMP'S DEFENSE LAWYER FOR SECOND IMPEACHMENT TRIAL: Yes, I do, 100 percent. And I hope that Mr. Hurd is not a lawyer because he seems to have forgotten about the presumption of innocence. It's very important that we keep that in mind. These are just allegations and it's very easy to get a witness to say anything, quite frankly.

HARLOW: We don't know Trump's defense -- that's correct -- but these are very detailed allegations. Documents that they have in the superseding indictment -- the prosecutors say they have about that Iran document about attack plans that you hear on the audiotape that CNN obtained -- that he is showing it to multiple people with no right to see it, right? With no classification clearance.

You also have surveillance video, it appears, from this.

On page four of the superseding indictment, the prosecutors allege that he attempted to have deleted security camera footage at Mar-a- Lago to conceal information from the FBI and grand jury. And this allegation is that it happened after the subpoena for that footage.

SCHOEN: What I would say is, very importantly, I think what we have here -- let's take, for example, the alleged deletion of the video. We have a he said, that Nauta said, that Trump said. We have rules of evidence for very important reasons to assure some level of reliability.

Remember, in this process, the government has all of the leverage. So if a witness, for example -- why is it we're seeing now a superseding indictment?

Let's take it back a step. They just had a scheduling conference with the judge. The judge ought to be upset if the judge wasn't given any warning there'd by a superseding indictment. Is this really new evidence or did they turn the screws to Mr. De Oliveria -- the person who said, apparently, that Mr. De Oliveria said this, but said Nauta said this, who said Trump said this. Why is this happening now?

There are a number of things I would say about this indictment. Why do we see in counts 32 and 38 allegedly false statements that the lawyer supposedly made attributed to Trump and Nauta and the lawyers aren't charged in the case?

I do think there's a real -- this is done for public consumption at a minimum. This is a real speaking indictment for public consumption.

HARLOW: I'm interested in the fact that Ty Cobb, who was a lawyer in the Trump White House -- what he said to Erin Burnett last night because he totally disagrees with you. Here is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TY COBB, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: I think this original indictment was engineered to last 1,000 years and now, it will last -- the superseding indictment will last to antiquity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Why do you think he is so wrong? Why would you be so confident if you were Trump's defense counsel in this?

SCHOEN: I don't even know what he means, quite frankly. I'm actually shocked by Trump --

HARLOW: He means it's strong.

SCHOEN: -- President Trump's former lawyer -- yes. Look, the allegations are very serious and very detailed. There's no question about that. No one can reasonably say otherwise, but I'm saying to you it's very important to keep in mind these are the allegations.

Remember this about Mr. Smith, for example. The lawyers for John Edwards came in and tried to talk him out of indicting in that case. He went forward with it. There's a very interesting article in The Hill that suggests that his evaluation of evidence, both its strength and its reliability, is questionable.

There's a real agenda here, I believe, and that's why we see an indictment for public consumption like this. This is an unusual indictment. Look, if there's an advantage to defense lawyers to how all of these details -- you know how to prepare cross-examination now. But I do think it's unfair to have then a protective order in place so the defense lawyers can't really respond to this in the way that the indictment is read.

HARLOW: I'd like your response to -- let's focus in on the charge that was added -- charge 32 about the document that is about an attack plan on Iran. Because here is how former President Trump described that encounter caught on audiotape which, by the way, CNN obtained. We just played it for our viewers. Here's how Trump described that and tried to defend himself in an interview with Fox News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There was no document. That was a massive amount of papers and everything else talking about Iran and other things. And it may have been held up or may not. But that was not a document. I didn't have a document per se. There was nothing to declassify. There were newspaper stories, magazine stories, and articles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: And prosecutors say now they have the document. If you're in trial and you see them present this into evidence, you then listen to the audiotape of Trump waving the document around before all of those people, how do you defend that? How is that not criminal if that's what happens?

SCHOEN: Sure. I'd have to know what the source is and the basis is for them saying that is the document and that there was a document. Right now, I take President Trump at his word like I'd take any defendant at his or her word, and that's what the presumption of innocence means, quite frankly.

HARLOW: OK. I'd say Mark Meadows also wrote about the document in his book.

What about, finally, the charges against Nauta and De Oliveria? Do you think they're being overbearing, prosecutors, here? Why? Because they allege De Oliveria, by the way -- the new defendant --

[07:35:00]

SCHOEN: Because I think this -- sure.

HARLOW: -- lied to them in this voluntary interview that he saw nothing after they alleged that he was helping move these boxes around.

SCHOEN: Right. So remember, it's the prosecutors who bring these allegations. They basically draw it up for the grand jury. And so they decide who lied and who told the truth. And often what we see in many cases over many years, including some members of this prosecution team, is that they decide a lie means that the person won't cooperate and give their version of events, or because something consistent with their version of events.

They have tremendous leverage. They have all of the leverage in this case.

I'll tell you right now, I have got sanctions hearing requested against two of the prosecutors on Mr. Smith's team.

Look, we don't know what's happening until this case goes to trial, quite frankly.

HARLOW: Final question for you is the separate meeting that Trump's lawyers had with Jack Smith's team yesterday on a separate potential indictment that has to do with January 6 and alleged election interference and attempts to overturn the election.

Trump said on Truth Social, essentially, my lawyers went there and they told the prosecutors this would be bad for the country to bring.

Do you think that's a valid reason not to charge?

SCHOEN: I think that something like a prudential principle of prosecution for them to consider. I do think this is where you consider how have we handled situations like this in the past, and so on, which I don't think is just whataboutism. I think it's equal application of the law.

I don't know, quite frankly, why they went in there. The idea that these two lawyers, Blanche and Lauro, were going to convince Jack Smith's team not to prosecute in the hour that they had to talk to him after months of investigation to me is either naive or misguided. And to show your defense would, I think, be particularly misguided. But, you know, difference of opinion I suppose.

HARLOW: Different lawyers.

David Schoen, we appreciate the time this morning. Thank you.

SCHOEN: Thank you.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Great interview, Poppy.

This morning, concerns are mounting about the capabilities of some of the oldest members of Congress.

At 90, Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein is the oldest U.S. lawmaker. She has been in frail health since a shingles diagnosis earlier this year. Since her return to the Capitol, she has appeared confused at times, including yesterday when the senator had to be corrected and told to vote during a Senate hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. PATTY MURRAY (D-WA): The clerk will call the roll.

CLERK: Senator Feinstein?

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D-CA): Um.

MURRAY: You say aye.

FEINSTEIN: Pardon me?

MURRAY: Aye.

FEINSTEIN: Yeah, uh.

MURRAY: Just say aye.

FEINSTEIN: I would -- I would like to support a yes vote on this. It provides $823 billion. That's an increase of $26 billion for the Department of Defense. And it funds priorities submitted --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

FEINSTEIN:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

MURRAY: Just say aye.

FEINSTEIN: OK, just --

MURRAY: Aye.

FEINSTEIN: Aye.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: This, of course, comes on the heels of Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell who is 81, who froze earlier this week in the midst of a news conference. That happened on Wednesday. He froze for 23 seconds. He was then escorted away from reporters. He did return afterwards to answer questions.

CNN's Lauren Fox joining us live on Capitol Hill with more. Look, it's a delicate conversation but it is one that is being had more and more out in the open. What are you hearing from Sen. Feinstein's office about that moment, in particular?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Erica, it is a really delicate conversation and it is not really new to the U.S. Senate. There have been senators in the past who have had cognitive issues in the U.S. Senate. There are senators who have aged here in a way that really made it hard for them to do their jobs.

But Sen. Feinstein's office reacting to that moment in the Appropriations Committee, saying it was really chaotic in the room that they were voting and they were really switching quickly between debate and a final vote on the defense appropriations bills, and that the senator just got confused.

A spokesman from her office said, "The senator was preoccupied. Didn't realize debate had just ended and a vote was called. She started to give a statement, was informed it was a vote, and then cast her vote."

And you see that moment where her staffer comes up to her and whispers in her ear that it's time to actually vote. And then you hear Patty Murray, who is the chairman of that committee, saying "just say aye." That is obviously a moment where Dianne Feinstein is really trying to find her way in the committee.

But we should note she's been out for several months. She was out of the U.S. Senate while she was undergoing shingles and complications from shingles. She returned in June after there were some Democrats who actually called for her to resign, arguing that her absence was having an effect on the pace at which the Biden administration could confirm judicial nominees. But obviously, in the wake of what we saw from McConnell earlier this week, there's a lot of questions about whether or not there needs to be some kind of age cut-off for members of Congress. I will note that many of McConnell's colleagues, Republicans and Democrats, said that they have full confidence that McConnell can do the job -- Erica.

[07:40:14]

HILL: Lauren Fox, appreciate the reporting. Thank you.

HARLOW: Bronny James back home resting after suffering a cardiac arrest earlier this week during basketball practice. We're going to show you the traumatic 911 call. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL)

HILL: Some good news to start your Friday morning. Eighteen-year-old Bronny James, the son of NBA star LeBron James, is out of the hospital and resting. This, of course, just days after suffering a cardiac arrest at basketball practice.

CNN has obtained the 911 call from an individual who called to ask for that ambulance initially. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CALLER: Get an ambulance here now.

OPERATOR: OK -- all right, sir. All right, sir. I'm going to send help there to -- and where exactly are you?

CALLER: Yes, yes, yes. (INAUDIBLE) wait for you.

[07:45:00]

OPERATOR: All right, sir. We're going to send help, OK?

CALLER: All right.

OPERATOR: Your telephone is -- hold on one -- don't hang up, sir -- don't hang up. Your telephone is --

CALLER: Yes.

OPERATOR: OK, let's get next to him, please, OK? How old is he?

CALLER: He's -- get next to him with the phone, OK?

OPERATOR: Get next to him. Get next to him, please, with the phone. OK, I need to -- I need to find out is there a doctor on scene with him or a registered nurse?

CALLER: No, there's no doctor on scene.

OPERATOR: OK, help is already on -- help is already on the way, OK? Get next to him, please. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: CNN has not been able to independently verify whether medical staff was on the scene at the time of the call. You heard they were asked there about a doctor or a nurse.

Joining us now is CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

HILL: So -- good morning, Sanjay.

So, based on what you hear there in the call -- everybody very calm but they want to get that phone next to Bronny James. But what else are you picking up in those moments?

GUPTA: Yes. I think -- I think that's the big thing. You see how fast this moves. That was less than 30 seconds. And saying get next to him, I think -- and some of that was redacted. You could hear, sort of, gaps in the -- in the call. But they want him to check for a pulse. They -- hopefully, someone has already sent for a defibrillator and they may have asked that person and instructed that person that was on the phone how to do CPR.

So we know whatever happened -- and again, that's just a portion of it -- it was a fast resuscitation. I don't know how long it took for paramedics to get there. But clearly, it was a fast resuscitation because by the time Bronny got to the hospital we now know he was -- he was conscious, doing a lot better, and able to be released from the ICU quickly.

HARLOW: And how promising that he was released so quickly?

GUPTA: Well, there's two things. He got released from the hospital which, obviously, is good news. I don't read into that as much because sometimes people will keep patients in the hospital longer just out of an abundance of caution.

I think the really good news -- encouraging sign was how quickly he was released from the intensive care unit.

HARLOW: Yes.

GUPTA: He goes there, cardiac arrest. What does that mean? They mean that he's stable and they think that his heart function is normal. So that's a good sign. It doesn't mean there's not investigations to be done but that was a really good sign.

HILL: We don't yet know what caused cardiac arrest but what would doctors be looking for to try to determine that, Sanjay?

GUPTA: You know, there's a few sort of broad categories of things.

I'll just show you -- you know, they would want to look at if there was something anatomically different about his heart in some way -- some of the large blood vessels, some of the muscle. That involves putting an ultrasound on the chest and taking a look. We understand -- we've learned that he had that done a couple of months ago as a prospective player and it was normal.

They'd also want to look at the electrical patterns in the heart to see if there's any kind of abnormal electrical pattern. He had an EKG done in the past which we also heard was normal. But now they may want to check those electrical rhythms over a longer period of time just to see look, is there some abnormality that we're not catching on a single photo, if you will, of the heart.

So that's something that can be done on an outpatient basis and he's probably going to have done blood tests and things like that as well. But -- and they can take a little bit of time to get an answer.

But those are the types of tests.

HARLOW: The most important thing is that he's OK -- that he survived this. But if he chooses to go back and play basketball at the level he was playing, when will you know and how do you determine if he can and what the health risks may be going forward?

GUPTA: Some of this is going to be a combination of science and judgment. They're going to do these tests. Let's say all the tests come back normal and there's no clear underlying cause as to what happened here. I think there may still be a period of time where they just want to be careful, monitor him, and see -- make sure that there's nothing else.

But keep in mind this -- first of all, from a 2015 study, this happened 6,000 to 7,000 times a year among young athletes and there can be a variety of reasons. If you look across the board, there's about a 15 percent chance of recurrence within the first year. So -- but that's across the board for all causes.

In this case, there -- since there's the testing that we heard from a couple of months ago was normal, and if everything comes back normal, I think he has a much higher chance of returning.

You know, one of his teammates, Vincent Iwuchukwu -- same sort of thing happened to him last year --

HARLOW: Yes.

GUPTA: -- and he was back playing within a few months. I think seven months.

HARLOW: Yes. Hoping for the best. A full recovery, obviously --

HILL: Yes.

HARLOW: -- Dr. Gupta.

Thank you, Sanjay. Appreciate it.

GUPTA: You got it. Thank you. HILL: This just into CNN. Barriers are being put up outside the courthouse in Fulton County, Georgia. The sheriff's office says it is proactively coordinating with agencies to enhance security during high-profile proceedings. What does that tell us about potential charges related to Donald Trump and his allies' efforts to overturn the election in Georgia?

HARLOW: And a police officer going beyond the call of duty, reconnecting with a boy he took to child services five years ago after finding him living on the streets. That story is next.

[07:50:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEJANDRO NAZARIO, ONCE HOMELESS MIDDLE SCHOOLER: As I grew older, I realized Officer Larson took the best course for my future.

OFFICER JOHN LARSON, ESCONDIDO POLICE: It almost feels like my career is complete because of something that could have been so bad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL)

HARLOW: A reunion years in the making. A police officer in California who went beyond the call of duty to help a homeless middle schooler. The two lost touch until they got an expected -- an unexpected chance to meet again years later.

Our Camila Bernal reports from California.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A typical 17- year-old and a typical summer workout. But five years ago, Alex Nazario's life was anything but.

NAZARIO: I knew I was homeless. I knew I didn't have shoes or a shelter, or a place to call home.

BERNAL (voice-over): Something that the Starbucks employees in Escondido, California noticed.

LARSON: They informed me that there's a young boy that would hang out at the store until they closed, and then they'd notice that he'd go across the street and would be alone at the Jack in the Box.

BERNAL (voice-over): Then Officer John Larson found Alex alone.

LARSON: I actually put myself out with dispatch and went to go contact him and just started chatting with him. I told him he wasn't in trouble.

BERNAL (voice-over): A conversation that both would remember for years to come. LARSON: What's up bud?

NAZARIO: Hi.

BERNAL (voice-over): Officer Larson knew Alex needed help.

LARSON: And at home, times are tough.

BERNAL (voice-over): He dropped him off with child welfare services but confidentiality rules prevented him from keeping in touch.

LARSON: Once he was out of my hands, I called multiple times on different months just to see I got lucky and got -- slipped through the cracks.

BERNAL (voice-over): But Officer Larson never gave up.

LARSON: How's the family?

NAZARIO: The family's doing good right now.

[07:55:00]

BERNAL (voice-over): Last December, another member of the police department found Alex and gave Officer Larson the good news.

LARSON: I, like, started tearing up. I'm like oh my God, I can't believe it.

BERNAL (voice-over): After five years, the two met for lunch for another unforgettable conversation.

NAZARIO: It's all pretty surreal since I didn't expect, like, Officer Larson to try to find me.

BERNAL (voice-over): And not only did he find him --

LARSON: When I met you, you were already in middle school, right?

BERNAL (voice-over): -- he attended Alex's high school graduation, a barbecue with his foster family, and promised a forever friendship.

NAZARIO: As I grew older, I realized Officer Larson took the best course for my future. I love him more now.

BERNAL (voice-over): The admiration is mutual.

LARSON: It almost feels like my career is complete.

BERNAL (voice-over): Alex wants to be a graphic designer.

LARSON: You took a bad situation and you turned it into everything positive.

BERNAL (voice-over): He says that thanks to Officer Larson and others he has the physical and mental strength to overcome challenges and pursue his dreams.

LARSON: You're stronger than me.

He made all these decisions on his own to succeed.

I think every time we have a good success in our -- in my line of career, it's always a great validation.

BERNAL (voice-over): Camila Bernal, CNN, Escondido, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: That's such a great story. I love that.

HARLOW: Love it.

HILL: New charges against former President Trump. Federal prosecutors now alleging he tried to get security camera footage at Mar-a-Lago erased. President Trump's former attorney and fixer Michael Cohen joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL)

HARLOW: Good morning, everyone. So glad you're with us on this very busy Friday. So happy to have you by my side, Erica Hill.

HILL: Always a pleasure, my friend.

HARLOW: So, huge developments overnight in the Mar-a-Lago classified documents case. Donald Trump is facing new felony charges, including explosive allegations that he.