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U.S. Credit Downgrade Roils Markets; Second Body Recovered Near Buoys In Rio Grande; Family Of Fallen Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick Reacts To Trump Indictment; Attorney: Alleged Killer's Wife Was "Blindsided" By His Arrest. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired August 03, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:32:15]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: So we're just a few hours away from the market opening. Investors waiting to see if stocks are going to rebound. Stocks took a dive in an apparent response to a lot, partly the Fitch downgrade some other stuff, too. Fitch downgraded the U.S. debt from its highest AAA rating to AA plus. First time we've seen that since 2011.

Julia Chatterley is with us in studio. Good morning. Great to have you. Normally, you're so busy preparing for your own show. We're glad to have you here. What's going on with the market? Is this really about the downgrade?

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: Not really. It's a series of events, some of them, and not all of them are bad, actually. Yesterday we had great jobs data. The other thing is, the markets are doing incredibly well this year. You've got the S&P 500 up 18%, the Nasdaq up more than, what, 30%.

Taking a bit of money off the table here. The credit rating situation was a good reason, perhaps, to do that. It was a warning shot from Fitch. And as they said, look, the numbers tell the story and I would completely agree with them. Debt too high, our interest costs in America are enormous. And that was the other thing that happened yesterday. The treasury came out and said, hey, we're going to borrow a heck of a lot of money in the third quarter, more than people expected. And that hit a sore spot that Fitch had already created.

HARLOW: It's just so interesting, the timing. I mean, big name bankers, Jamie Dimon saying, this makes no sense right now. Bank of America coming out confounded at why this happened now. There is a question about timing.

CHATTERLEY: There is a question about timing. You can say why now? You could also say, why not now? None of these things are new. The debt's pretty out of control. The political situation is relatively toxic. The entitlements, relatively security, relatively I'm being diplomatic. The British.

HARLOW: She's a Brit.

CHATTERLEY Yeah. Keep calm and carry on. Really messy Poppy for you. None of this changed. In fact, it's actually less than it was a couple of months ago. Why not now? I think would be the answer. I think Warren Buffett, though, said it best today, someone who you know very well, and he said, there are some things to worry about. This is one of them.

HARLOW: Yeah.

CHATTERLEY: In the end, you buy American if there's a crisis, and that hasn't changed.

HARLOW: The Oracle of Omaha with perspective.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, we agree.

HARLOW: Thank you. Julia, appreciate it very much.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: All right, well, new this morning, two bodies were found in an area barrier of buoys in the Rio Grande River just over 3 miles apart. The cause of death and the identities of the two deceased people, that remains unclear. This comes as lawyers in Texas are trying to figure out how many migrant families have been separated at the border.

CNN's Rosa Flores is live in Houston. Rosa, I want to start with the bodies that have been discovered. What do we know about the second body that was discovered?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Mexico's Foreign Ministry is not releasing a lot of information about this. All they say is that the cause and manner of death has not been identified and the nationality has not been identified.

But, Phil, what I can tell you is I can give you context about just how deadly this portion of the Rio Grande is. I've been to this area, doing stories about how deadly it is for migrants.

[07:35:09]

Just last year when I was there, I interviewed the sheriff. He was finding migrant bodies on the Rio Grande every single day. So much so, the medical examiner ran out of room to store bodies. The local funeral home ran out of room. The sheriff had to get a mobile morgue, and at the end of the day, the community had to start burying bodies.

Now, back to the buoys, the big question here, Phil, is where the buoys a contributing factor in one or both of these deaths, we don't know about that, but what we do know is that it should be investigated. And at least Mexico's Foreign Ministry says that they are investigating. Phil?

MATTINGLY: Rosa, I also want to ask you about, you know, you see family separation in a headline and it immediately grabs your attention based on, you know, the last five or six years on immigration, it's now back in a headline. Help us understand what's happening with this iteration of family separation.

FLORES: You know, I've talked to several attorneys one attorney says that at least 26 migrant families have been separated, that they were all Venezuelan asylum seekers, and that these migrants describe the scene as Texas DPS officers in airboats or on land, waving them on and then rounding them up and separating them.

How does a separation actually look like, according to these clients from this one attorney, they say that the father of a family unit is arrested for criminal trespass under state law and that the mother and the children or child are turned over to U.S. Immigration authorities. And Texas DPS is admitting to this, telling CNN in a statement, "There have been instances in which DPS has arrested male migrants on state charges who were with their family when the alleged crime occurred. Children and their mothers were never separated, but instead turned over to U.S. Border Patrol."

Now, according to this attorneys, most of these criminal trespassing arrests were happening at a public park in Eagle Pass called Shelby Park. Well, Phil, in an interesting twist, earlier this week, city council in Eagle Pass overturned the affidavit that allows Texas DPS to make these arrests in a public park. We've asked Texas DPS about this. We haven't heard back. But it's going to be interesting, Phil, to see if Texas DPS will continue to be at this public park. Because they've deployed concertina wire, shipping containers, they've set up a staging area there. So we're continuing to follow up to see what happens with this. Phil?

MATTINGLY: All right, keep us posted on that, Rosa. Thanks so much.

HARLOW: Special Counsel Jack Smith praising the officers who protected the Capitol and democracy on January 6. One of those officers, of course, Brian Sicknick, who died the day after the attack and his family will be with us, next.

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JACK SMITH, SPECIAL COUNSEL: The men and women of law enforcement who defended the U.S. capitol on January 6 are heroes. They are patriots and they are the very best of us. They did not just defend a building or the people sheltering in it. They put their lives in the line to defend who we are as a country and as a people.

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MATTINGLY: Special Counsel Jack Smith, praising the officers who protected the Capitol and democracy during the January 6 riot. Smith called them heroes as he announced a third indictment against former President Donald Trump Tuesday night. This one over efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Special Counsel accused the former president of spreading lies about election fraud and fueling the angry mob that descended on the capitol, the mob that brutally attacked officers with flagpoles, bear spray, police barricades.

According to a government watchdog, Trump's supporters injured more than 100 officers during that attack, and one brave officer lost his life the very next day. Doctors say officer Brian Sicknick suffered several strokes after hours of protecting the United States capitol from the angry rioters vowing to overturn the 2020 election.

Joining us now are the late officer's mother, Gladys, and his brother Craig. Thank you very much for being here.

CRAIG SICKNICK, BRIAN SICKNICK'S BROTHER: Thank you for having us on.

MATTINGLY: I want to start, I'm down in Washington normally, I've seen you guys at the January 6 hearings. You have had a very strong presence in D.C. and had a very big impact in Washington, D.C. This indictment was different, I think, than everything we've seen. What was your reaction to it, Gladys?

GLADYS SICKNICK, BRIAN SICKNICK'S MOTHER: It made me feel good that something good came out of this. And I want to thank Jack Smith for doing what he did. And also the committee, the January 6 Committee for -- if it wasn't for them, this all wouldn't have happened. This would have all been swept under the rug. And so I'm just hoping that it helps with -- you know, for closure for the police -- especially the police officers that were hurt.

HARLOW: We've talked a lot about and we've had you on before. We've talked a lot about not wanting Brian's death to be forgotten and for it to stand for something and all the good that he was in the world. What gets you to that? Or how do we get there?

G. SICKNICK: I don't know. I'm having a hard time. As I said before we came on air, Brian's birthday would have been on last Sunday. His birthday was last Sunday and he had a hard time, really hard time, because I think -- because we're not down there so much anymore that I think all of a sudden I'm grieving. Grieving just kicked in. I didn't have time before because we were always constantly on the move and doing it.

MATTINGLY: It was shock?

G. SICKNICK: Yeah.

MATTINGLY: Craig, you know, I think you guys are still in contact with a number of Brian's former colleagues. How Capitol Police, the police departments down there were very rattled afterwards. And I think to your point, grief hits at different times. Dealing with hits at different times. How are they doing, the folks that you still talk to?

C. SICKNICK: I can't speak for them per se, but like us, they've had -- you know, trying to figure out what happened, why it happened. Of course it's a loss, and they lost many officers over a relatively short period of time. Brian was the first. A few others passed away from suicides a little later on than there was a stabbing in the following weeks. They've had a very rough couple of years. I said, as far as where they're going to go long-term, I don't know. [07:45:03]

I know they have -- we were at a graduation ceremony for a class a while back, so they've started actually getting people through there again, but it's tough for everybody involved. And that was supposed to be one of the safest police forces to work on in the country.

G. SICKNICK: Yeah. I was very happy when he became a police officer in Washington, because very safe place to be.

HARLOW: Of course, you never could have imagined this.

G. SICKNICK: Yeah.

HARLOW: What has the broader impact been on your family? I mean, you talk so importantly about how grief comes when it comes for people at different points over years. What about the others in your family who have to be struggling?

G. SICKNICK: Yeah, it's hard for everybody. They were close with him, and he was a lot younger, so he was -- you know.

C. SICKNICK: He was my little shadow.

G. SICKNICK: Yeah, it was. But he, you know, never had a yell at the kid ever. Never.

HARLOW: Wow.

G. SICKNICK: So he was just as good as he was -- as handsome as he was. That's how good he was.

HARLOW: Wow.

MATTINGLY: As a parent, that's a remarkable.

G. SICKNICK: Yeah.

MATTINGLY: That was the experimental model, can I ask you what you've been through, what you've seen in the wake of this indictment this week? What comes to mind when you think of the fact that the former president is now the clear leading contender to be the Republican nominee to be the president? He could be president again. It's entirely possible.

G. SICKNICK: It's very scary to me, because what really stands out in my mind is that if he becomes president, hope he doesn't, that he'll pardon all these people that have been behind bars, that belong behind bars and more that coming behind him, that them that should be in jail.

And then he said, you know, what is he going to do? He's going to be in jail and run the office of the White House from jail. I don't know how this is all going to work. Doesn't make any sense. And how people follow him. I just don't get it. C. SICKNICK: It's frightening how so many people so strongly believe

in this demagogue that, you know, you look at anything in his past. I've read books from his niece. I've read books written about people who have served in, you know, in his cabinet and the ancillary end of it. And the man is a sham. And he has that his entire life. And he's an extremely good con artist, apparently, and he keeps the con going. He's had so many people convinced that he's something super special. I mean, why would somebody who claims he's a billionaire have to have, you know, middle class and poorer people pay for his legal bills, for his various packs? It boggles the mind.

HARLOW: Well, we will continue to think about your brother, your beloved son throughout this. And I'm sorry that you're going through so much grief right now. You're on our minds. We appreciate you being here.

MATTINGLY: We appreciate it.

C. SICKNICK: Thank you. I said hopefully we can move forward as a nation and somehow get people to listen to reason.

HARLOW: Thank you.

Ahead for us, another tragic story. The wife of the suspect in the Gilgo Beach murderer is now speaking out about her husband's alleged crimes. And her attorney joins us.

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[07:51:06]

HARLOW: So, new this morning, CNN confirms the wife of the Gilgo Beach murder suspect has spoken to her husband by phone. Rex Heuermann, who has pleaded not guilty, appeared in court in Long Island this week. He's accused of killing three women and dumping their bodies on the now infamous Gilgo Beach more than a decade ago. He's also the prime suspect in a fourth murder.

On Tuesday, prosecutors handed over a trove of evidence to Heuermann's lawyers, including hard drives, thousands of pages of documents and surveillance video. Take a look at these photos from inside of the family home. Piles and piles of boxes and personal items and hole cut out of a vinyl bathtub. Robert Macedonio, I hope I pronounced that correctly, sir. The attorney for Heuermann's wife is with us.

ROBERT MACEDONIO, ATTORNEY FOR ASA ELLERUP: Macedonio.

HARLOW: Macedonio, thank you. My apologies, and I do appreciate your time so much this morning because there have been so many developments in this case so far, especially this week. Can you share with us what your client spoke with her husband? I know she's filed for divorce about?

MACEDONIO: I wasn't present for those conversations. I know they've spoken from the facility. Those calls are all recorded, so we've instructed her to keep it limited to basic information, nothing about the allegations or anything that's going on in the media. So I'm not sure what exactly the conversations were about or how long they were, but I know they've spoken.

HARLOW: They have children, grown children, and she is going through this, are her children, I just wonder if you could speak to, beyond the law, just the human impact on them from all of this?

MACEDONIO: Well, the human impact, they were displaced from their residence for a little over two weeks, you know, prior to two and a half weeks ago. Their life was whatever was normal for them. They were displaced out of their residence, living out of the cars and family and friends, staying at hotels, and then returned to a home that was totally destroyed upheaval. Every item was emptied out of every dresser drawer. Beanbags that they were using, they're sleeping on now were cut open. The backyard was dug up. PlayStation Five, which the daughter used to play with, was broken in half.

It shouldn't have been just total destruction of any personal property that was in the house, which I don't believe was necessary to extract any forensic evidence out of the house. It just seems to be a lot of overdone damage.

HARLOW: Has your client been contacted directly by investigators? Because I'm wondering if she would cooperate, potentially testify against Heuermann, or would she assert spousal immunity?

MACEDONIO: She has not been contacted or we have not been contacted by the investigators, and she has not been interviewed. We're assuming one thing. We're assuming that all the allegations that we're reading about are true. This is completely emotionally overwhelming for Asa because she knows what we know. She only knows what the media is saying.

We are assuming it's true. She does not believe or had no knowledge any of this stuff was going on. So she's completely blindsided by this whole course of events that's taken place in the last three weeks.

HARLOW: Are you saying your client believes without a doubt that her husband is guilty of these murders?

MACEDONIO: At this point in time, her head is spinning. The only thing she knows is what the media is doing. And she's been bombarded by the media 24/7 with allegations. Allegations and the DA put forth a 32- page bail application which detailed their case. We don't know that to be true. He's presumed innocent, but we've all convicted him in the media. And she's, at this point in time, she's trying to keep her own sanity and her children's sanity together, not even addressing what the allegations are against him.

HARLOW: So just trying to get to some clarity here from what you said before, so our viewers under understand, does she have reason to believe that her husband may be guilty of these crimes?

MACEDONIO: She has no reason to believe that. Because she -- if it's true, and we're going to assume that for a second, it was a complete double life, she had no knowledge, no recollection of anything that would have given a hint that anything was going on. So if it's proven to be true, it's a complete double life that she knew nothing about and is completely blindsided about in the last two weeks.

[07:55:16]

HARLOW: So she hasn't been contacted by investigators. Does that also mean, I suppose -- because there's a big question of DNA and our reporting from our colleagues here has been that that prosecutors would like more DNA samples, for example, from Heuermann, from the home. This means she hasn't been contacted for any additional DNA samples, correct?

MACEDONIO: We have not been. No, we have not been contacted to give any DNA samples.

HARLOW: OK. One of the -- one of the other questions to people you just said, look, if these allegations are true, it would have been a complete double A. There are people who are wondering who believe that he is guilty. Obviously families of victims here as well, and they are saying, how could you not have known? Would you like to speak to that?

MACEDONIO: How could she not have known? Like I said, if it's true because the people have convicted him already, once the arrest is made, you know, we're presumed innocent in this country and we'd like everybody to have that presumption. But once the arrest is made, a majority of the public has already convicted him, saying they must be right, this must be true. So then we're transposing that onto her. How could you not know your husband did this?

So at this point in time, this is all overwhelming to her. Her whole life has been put into upheaval as of her children's, her husband is sitting in jail, accused of being, you know, a serial killer. So she's sorting out her own emotions, taking care of her children before even dressing whether these allegations are true. We'll get to that at another point in time when she starts sorting out her own emotions. She needs to survive right now.

HARLOW: Robert Macedonio, I appreciate your time and --

MACEDONIO: And we'll see the evidence play out and --

HARLOW: Yeah, go ahead.

MACEDONIO: Thank you. I appreciate it.

HARLOW: Sorry. Cut him off there. We appreciate his time.

MATTINGLY: All right, we're just hours away from former President Trump arriving the nation's Capitol to be arraigned yet again. What to expect? That's ahead.

HARLOW: Also, Trump appointed attorney General Bill Barr, has a lot to say about his former boss' third indictment. He sat down with our Kaitlan Collins. You'll see that extraordinary interview. That's ahead.

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