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Trump Pleads Not Guilty; Judge Sentences Tree of Life Shooter; Shooting Reenactment in Parkland; New Special "Weed 7: A Senior Moment" on CNN. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired August 04, 2023 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: You know, it's OK that he changed his mind, and he was being a good lawyer. But there is a line. You can - you can lawyer. What you can't do is pursue things in a pursuance of - of a crime.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

HARLOW: That's the difference. But I don't think it's being distinguished for a lot of folks. And I don't think that many people - much of the American pubic -- is being fairly served by these arguments that are conflating criminalizing acts and criminalizing speech, which is not what this indictment does.

HONIG: I think Kevin McCarthy's comments actually I think inadvertently, nicely highlight the difference between what is and is not criminal. Speech is not criminal. You can complain. You can lie even. It says that in the indictment. They're right. You can say whatever you want.

But when it crosses the line into conduct, into, hey, let's round up 16 people from the state of Michigan, have them claim they're the electors, have them sign a form and then send those forms into the Archives and the Senate and the secretary of state, then you've crossed the line from speech into conduct. And so I don't think this is what Kevin McCarthy was trying to do. But if you want to understand - well, he get it wrong at the end when he says, it's all just thought, because Trump, yes, he thought he spoke, but he also took action according to the indictment. That's the distinction.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Again, I would like to note that Al Gore and Hillary Clinton conceded. They also didn't try and force their vice president to overturn votes or obstruct proceedings, along with what you were talking about with the electors.

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Didn't -- didn't start a riot.

MATTINGLY: Also that. But that's - that's not what he's charged for.

LOUIS: Right. Very true.

MATTINGLY: And this is not about an insurrection. This not about necessarily the attack on the Capitol.

I do want to ask, Errol, we were talking about this during the break, I think it's really important, especially with, down in Fulton County, the grand jury is expected to meet again. That would be potentially the fourth indictment for the former president.

The timeline here. There's an election.

LOUIS: Yes.

MATTINGLY: You cannot separate the political from the legal at this point.

LOUIS: That's exactly right.

Look, everybody, I think, should be prepared for the reality that the most recent case cases in particular are probably not going to advance very far before most of the relevant votes have been cast. So, for example, if Super Tuesday is going to happen in early March of next year, there's almost no way any of these cases are going to be reinvolved. Certainly not past, you know, conviction and possible appeals. So - so we're going to basically do the nominations, the Republicans are, without knowing what the real outcome of these cases are.

The average case in the D.C. Circuit takes about 18 months, a criminal case. And under the best case scenario, that's well past the election next year. So, at a minimum, early voting will be happening in the general election before at the - in the best scenarios any one of these cases is really resolved.

HARLOW: Kind of interesting because of how many Republicans -- we were showing it to people yesterday - you know, don't believe Biden legitimately won the election. I think it's about two-thirds, 70 percent. But there's this new Reuters poll, Elie, that's interesting, 45 percent of Republican voters that they surveyed said that they would not vote for Trump if convicted.

To Errol's great point, we won't know the outcome of this.

HONIG: And Errol said something really important in there, which is, let's not forget appeals. Because even if we manage - we, collectively, manage to get in one or two of these trials, look, if it's not guilty, over, there's no appeal. Prosecutor can not appeal. Double jeopardy. But if there's a conviction -

HARLOW: Great movie.

HONIG: He -

HARLOW: You don't remember the Ashley Judd movie?

MATTINGLY: Ashley Judd.

HARLOW: You don't -

HONIG: No.

HARLOW: What?

MATTINGLY: Poppy.

HARLOW: What? I --

MATTINGLY: You won a pop culture moment.

HARLOW: This is such a big deal.

MATTINGLY: This is so great.

HONIG: What, there's a movie about prosecutors not being not able to appeal?

HARLOW: "Double Jeopardy." There's a movie called "Double Jeopardy" with Ashley Judd. (INAUDIBLE).

HONIG: Oh, "Double Jeopardy," I gotcha. OK.

So, no matter what, though, these appeals will still be pending when we get into the election season.

HARLOW: Yes.

HONIG: And so even if Donald Trump is convicted, people who support him will have every right to say, this is not final yet. We still have several layers of appeal to go. And that will still be pending at the time of the election for sure.

HARLOW: John Lauro, Trump's attorney, was talking about, we think we'll be successful, you know, if we need to be on appeal. That they feel more strongly about this, if it gets there.

MATTINGLY: Yes, it's just (INAUDIBLE). A lot of levels, calendar, plus legal, plus political.

LOUIS: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Tommy Lee Jones, Ashley Judd. Elie, come on. Get better, man.

HONIG: I was -- I think I was thinking of "Sudden Death." The --

MATTINGLY: Oh, nice. Yes.

HONIG: That's a - the Pittsburgh Penguins. You -

MATTINGLY: OK, also a classic. We could keep going on this but (INAUDIBLE).

HARLOW: I don't know that one. Sorry.

HONIG: I'll fill you in on that one. That's OK.

MATTINGLY: Elie Honig, Errol Louis, thanks, guys.

HARLOW: Why experts are reenacting - this is going to happen today -- a deadly 2018 mass shooting. Of course we all remember Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, that mass shooting. They're going to reenact it with live gunfire. Why? This is about a course case. We'll take you live to Parkland, Florida, ahead.

MATTINGLY: And new overnight, two members of the Tennessee three fully reclaiming their seats in the state legislature after they were expelled for protests. New details coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:38:19]

HARLOW: Vile, worthless, pathetic. That is how family minutes of the victims of the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting described the killer in court yesterday as a judge officially sentenced him to death. That's the verdict the jury came down with. That hearing came one day after a jury unanimously decided on the death penalty for the man accused of murdering 11 people at the Tree of Life Synagogue. That was about five years ago. It was the deadliest anti-Semitic attack in U.S. history.

Our Danny Freeman reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Catharsis in the courtroom this week as one by one family members and loved ones of victims and survivors of the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting finally got the chance to freely address the shooter in open court.

"Your sick, vile, despicable actions have totally erased you from humanity and society forever," said Mark Simon, son of Bernice and Sylvan Simon, who were killed in the attack.

"I am, in principle, opposed to the death penalty," said Rabbi Dorris Dyen, who survived the attack as well, "but this shooter has challenged my ability to maintain that view. In my opinion, he has forfeited the privilege of living."

With witness after witness, defendant Robert Bowers sat emotionless, taking notes, no longer in his trial sweater and collared shirt, now in a red inmate jump suit.

"I can only wish Mr. Bowers would look at me while I'm talking instead of scribbling on his page," said Dan Leger, who survived after being shot in the abdomen by Bowers. "Look at me, the Jew he tried to kill."

Throughout the pain of the week, defiance and hope, though, did emerge.

Andrea Wedner's 97-year-old mother, Rose Mallinger, was killed in the attack. But Andrea survived.

[06:40:01] She told CNN in an exclusive interview, her mom, Rose, has looked over her.

ANDREA WEDNER, SURVIVED SYNAGOGUE SHOOTING: When you have a near death experience, I think that changes you and you just - you see life differently. And I do. It's - it's been hard without my mother, but I know she would want me to live on and take care of my family and be there for my family. And that's what we do. We spend family time together. We talk about my mother. We share memories. We laugh about my mother. She was pretty funny. And that's - that's how we move on.

FREEMAN: Back in court, Andrea's brother, and Rose's son, Alan Mallinger, spoke directly to the shooter. "The synagogue you defiled will be rebuilt, and the joy that you took away will be reclaimed. My children will have their weddings there, and their children will have their bar and bat mitzvahs there. And we will continue to add to our family long after you have gone."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FREEMAN: Robert Bowers was formally sentenced to death yesterday, plus 37 life sentences and 20 years each for four additional counts.

Poppy.

HARLOW: Danny Freeman, so important to hear from those survivors. Thank you very much.

MATTINGLY: Today ballistics experts are set to fire off gunshots in Parkland, Florida, during a reenactment of the 2018 Marjory Stoneman Douglas School massacre. It's part of a civil lawsuit families of victims have brought against the school resource officer who, you'll remember, Scott Peterson waited outside the building where the shooting happened for 40 minutes while the gunman was inside. The shooter killed 14 students and three staff members.

Peterson says he couldn't tell where the shots were coming from because they were echoing.

CNN's Carlos Suarez is live in Parkland this morning.

Carlos, both sides wanted this reenactment. Why?

CARLOS SUAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's exactly right. Phil, good morning.

So, some of the Parkland families believe that the reenactment will show that there's no way that former school resource officer Scott Peterson couldn't tell where exactly the gunfire was coming from the day of the shooting. Back in June, a jury found Peterson not guilty for his inaction the day of the shooting after his attorneys successfully argued that Peterson took cover outside of the 1200 building for, as you said, more than 40 minutes. He never went inside of the building because he thought that there was more than one gunman and because he couldn't tell exactly where the shooting was taking place. Now before this reenactment takes place, nine members of Congress,

Democrats and Republicans, they are going to get a tour of the 1200 building. They're going to get a look at the three floors where this shooting took place, the classroom, the hallways, where these 17 students and staff members were killed back in 2018, and 17 others were wounded.

Now, just last week, some of the Parkland families, they were up in Washington, D.C., and they were lobbying some of these very same lawmakers for a school safety legislation, as well as more funding for mental health services, as well as school resource officers.

Here now is Max Schachter. His son, Alex, was one of the victims that was killed. And he talked to us yesterday about the importance of today's congressional visit, as well as the reenactment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAX SCHACHTER, FATHER OF PARKLAND SHOOTING VICTIM: If we don't use this building to teach others and to educate and use it to prevent the next tragedy, you know, it's all for not.

Every member of Congress, before they put their hand on the Bible, every school board member, every sheriff should walk through this building and understand what happens if you don't prioritize safety above education, because you cannot teach dead kids.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SUAREZ: Phil and Poppy, we're told that the reenactment is going to take place pretty much the entire day. Some 140 rounds of live ammunition will be fired off in the 1200 building. And that the reenactment will be recorded on video and audio as part of that civil case against Scott Peterson.

As for the 1200 building itself, the plan right now, at least according to the Broward School District, is to tear it down piece by piece. We're told that could take several months.

Guys.

MATTINGLY: All right, Carlos Suarez for us. Thank you.

HARLOW: The face of cannabis has changed. That's our Dr. Sanjay Gupta. He meets senior citizens who are using plants to replace pills. This is a whole new episode of "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Working with the cannabis is like magic.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: And you've seen people get rid of their other medications once they start taking cannabis?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Time after time after time. (END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:48:33]

HARLOW: With medical marijuana now legal in 38 states and the District of Columbia, can you guess what the fastest growing user group is? This answer might surprise you. It is 65 and up.

MATTINGLY: This Sunday "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER" brings you the latest installment of the award-winning series "WEED." In "Weed 7: A Senior Moment," Dr. Sanjay Gupta travels the world meeting seniors, researchers and doctors who believe cannabis could change the way we age.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I did not realize how big this was going to be.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow.

GUPTA: When you look at all of this, what do you see?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My first thought is that, what if all the pharmaceutical drugs that all the seniors are taking, taking now, what if it was replaced with all of these plants. Plants over pills.

GUPTA (voice over): Seventy-five-year-old Sue Taylor is a brand ambassador here at Glass House. She's an unlikely believer and now a messenger for cannabis use for the elderly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you had said to me, oh, you're going to be the trusted face of cannabis, I would say, oh, you've been smoking too much.

GUPTA (on camera): What was your perception of cannabis?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought it was a drug like cocaine, like crack cocaine.

[06:50:03]

This was a stigma.

GUPTA (voice over): But over the last decade, the perceptions, the stigma, and, yes, the face of cannabis has changed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was before the Mama Sue came out.

GUPTA: To this face, a senior, former Catholic school principal, Mama Sue, who opened her own dispensary dedicated to seniors.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Working with the cannabis, it's like magic.

GUPTA (on camera): And you've seen people get rid of their other medications once they start taking cannabis?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Time after time after time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: CNN chief medical correspondent Sanjay Gupta is here with us.

All right, what are they actually using cannabis for?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, it's a lot of things. And I should specify, this is -- this is medicinal cannabis. This is - this is how it's being recommended to people. But it really came to three main categories, which I realize making this sort of where the nuances of aging. Something I talked to my parents about, which was pain, aches and pains. It's sleep, which was a big one, using it for sleep. And mood. Things that tend to, you know, be more problematic as you age. Increasing those people - you know, those people are prescribed pain medications, antidepressants, sleep medications. Increasingly this is something that they're using instead.

HARLOW: At one point in that you talked about how their - or she talked about how this could replace other medications you're on (ph).

GUPTA: Yes.

HARLOW: I keep thinking of how many of these medications have adverse side effects.

GUPTA: Yes.

HARLOW: So, not only to be able to replace them is a huge deal, also work in conjunction with some of them.

GUPTA: Yes. That was really interesting to me. I mean if you look at our health care budget in this country, $4 trillion, an increasingly large part of that is pharmaceuticals.

HARLOW: Yes.

GUPTA: If you're over the age of 65, 30 percent of people are taking five or more prescription meds a day. And many times, again, it's for those nuisances of ageing. We're not talking about statins for cholesterol or diabetes drugs, but sleep and pain and mood.

First in conjunction with, often times, those other medications are often prescribed first, but they don't work as well or people don't get the relief that they want. And I think increasingly that's why they're starting to turn to things like - like cannabis.

And, you know, you get - you're getting real data as well. First it was very sort of smoke and mirrors, if you will.

HARLOW: Yes. GUPTA: But now in countries like Israel, they're starting to see that the medication use is going down and people are getting more relief. So not only does it work, sometimes it's the only thing that works for them.

HARLOW: Yes.

MATTINGLY: I feel like you addressed this in some form or fashion in ever iteration of - of your evolution, and your experience on this.

GUPTA: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Concerns about side effects, problems for seniors using medical marijuana.

GUPTA: There's real concerns I think. You know, and, again, I always say that we've always stuck true to medicinal cannabis here. But I think as you see more and more people using it, you see more and more problems as well. So you see more ER-related visits, for example. There's been concerns about cannabis use disorder, not calling it addictions per say, but people who've - who have a hard time stopping.

I think one of the biggest concerns with seniors, Phil, though, is falls. That was one thing that kept coming up over and over again. People who -- falls are a big concern already. You have 3 million people who are hospitalized with falls in that age group every year. This could worsen that. So, how do you put safeguards in place, again, just like you would with any other medication. But there are concerns and they -- they have to be - those risks have to be addressed at the same time as the rewards.

MATTINGLY: Another fascinating doc on this.

HARLOW: Yes.

MATTINGLY: I can't wait to watch it.

HARLOW: It's seven.

GUPTA: Well, I'm anxious to see what my parents say about this, who fall into that category now. So, we'll see.

HARLOW: We will see.

MATTINGLY: All right.

GUPTA: See what mom says.

HARLOW: Congrats, Sanjay.

GUPTA: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you, as always.

Be sure to tune in. An all new episode of "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER," which airs Sunday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific only on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:58:23]

MATTINGLY: Just going to state a fact here. Diana Taurasi is one of the best basketball players on the planet.

HARLOW: True.

MATTINGLY: The 41-year-old, in her nineteenth season, still out there dominating. And now she's done what no other WNBA player has ever done before.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, boy, this could be it. It is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: With that three-pointer and that notable swagger, as always, Taurasi became the first WNBA player to score 10,000 points in their career. No other WNBA player even has 7,500 points. Taurasi finished dropping 42 last night. Her first 40-point game since 2010. The Mercury would beat the dream easily, 91-71.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIANA TAURASI, WNBA ALL-TIME LEADING SCORER: When you do something you love and you obsess with it, you just always want to push the limits. And sometimes pushing the limits have gotten me in trouble. But I just love the game. I just put everything into it. And to have a night like this, in front of our fans, and people that I've known for a long time that have really helped me get here, it couldn't have been any better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: There's that. She's great at 41. A lot of great things happen when you're 41, I can tell you.

MATTINGLY: I have no doubt.

HARLOW: You don't know yet.

MATTINGLY: I - soon. Soon.

HARLOW: Soon.

Taylor Swift has a big decision to make. This is serious. Is she going to cancel the rest of her sold-out concerts in Los Angeles in support of the labor strike there, or will she keep her legions of fans happy?

More than four dozen state and local politicians there sent this open letter to Swift asking her to stand with hotel workers and postpone her tour dates.

[07:00:00]

California's lieutenant governor also signed the letter and is accused -- accusing her of swift-pocrisy (ph). That's according to "LA Magazine," after attending an era's concert in