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Trump to Turn Himself in to Fulton County Jail by Next Friday; Court Transcripts Reveal Special Counsel Obtained Warrant for Trump's Twitter Direct Messages; Video Likely Shows Power Line Faulting Seconds Before Flames Seen in Maui Fire; Trump's 2024 Rivals Mixed Over Georgia Indictment. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired August 16, 2023 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Let's go ahead and get things started with "Five Things to Know" for this Wednesday, August 16.

[06:00:56]

There are new developments in Donald Trump's Georgia indictment. Overnight, we learned the former president is expected to be booked in the Fulton County Jail when he turns himself in at any point in the next nine days.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And in the other election subversion case, we're learning his DMs, or direct messages, on Twitter were of great interest to the special counsel, as new court transcripts are unsealed.

New questions this morning about what caused wildfires on Maui that are now blamed for 106 deaths. "The Washington Post" is reporting a downed power line likely caused that first fire on the island. Here's the video of that moment.

MATTINGLY: And the mother of a U.S. soldier who mysteriously crossed into North Korea last month is asking Kim Jong-un's regime to treat her son humanely. North Korea, meantime, insisting King wanted to leave the U.S. Army on his own accord.

HARLOW: "The Blind Side" family pushing back on claims that they withheld millions of dollars from ex-NFL star Michael Oher. They say Oher attempted a $15 million shakedown before he filed this petition.

CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

All right. Here's where we start. New overnight, we now know where Donald Trump will likely surrender in Fulton County, Georgia, with just nine days left to turn himself in.

The local sheriff there says the former president is expected to be arrested and booked at the Fulton County jail on 13 felony charges for trying to overturn his 2020 election loss in the state. It's not clear, though, when that will happen.

Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has ordered Trump and his 18 co-defendants to surrender by noon next Friday. One of those alleged co-conspirators, Rudy Giuliani, says he will turn himself in sometime next week. This as he is ramping up his attacks on the district attorney; also, slamming her for using RICO racketeering charges, the same kind that he used, really pioneered, to prosecute Mafia bosses in New York when he was the U.S. attorney back in the 1980s.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP LAWYER: She's a politician and not a lawyer. Not an honest, honorable lawyer. This is a ridiculous application of the racketeering statute. There's probably no one that knows it better than I do.

This is not meant for election disputes. I mean, this is ridiculous, what she's doing. Also, I don't know if she realizes it, because she seems like a pretty incompetent, sloppy prosecutor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Meanwhile, another codefendant, Trump's former White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, already fighting to move the case from state court to federal court so he can try and get it dismissed.

Nick Valencia is live outside the Fulton County Courthouse. Nick, do we have any insight right now in terms of how Trump's arrest is going to go down by next Friday?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we wish we had more details, but we're working on getting those, Phil.

What we do know, though, is that the Fulton County sheriff says that he's going to treat the former president like he would anyone else who's been indicted in Fulton County, and that means being processed in the infamous Fulton County Jail, where earlier this year a man is alleged to have been eaten alive by bedbugs.

The news of Trump potentially going to the Fulton County Jail has caused quite the reaction here in Atlanta and beyond, if only for the optics alone.

Meanwhile, we are seeing some of the defense strategy from some of the defendants here. Former chief of staff for former President Trump, Mark Meadows, and his attorneys filing a formal petition to try to get their case removed from state court, moved to federal court, arguing that, when someone is charged for actions that they took, allegedly, while working as a federal official, they should have their criminal proceedings moved to federal court.

Here is what he and his lawyers are saying in part of that filing, saying, quote, "Nothing Mr. Meadows is alleged of in the indictment to have done is criminal, per se. Arranging Oval Office meetings, contacting state officials on the president's behalf, visiting a state government building, and setting up a phone call for the president. One would expect a chief of staff of the president of the United States to do these sorts of things." Mark Meadows, of course, charged with two counts in the indictment,

including racketeering, as well as violation of oath of office by a public official.

[06:05:02]

This matter, we understand, now is in the hands of the U.S. district judge here in Georgia -- Phil.

MATTINGLY: All right. Nick Valencia, live for us outside the courthouse. Thank you.

HARLOW: Now to the other investigation into Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election.

Newly-unsealed court transcripts reveal that the special counsel, Jack Smith, wanted to look into former President Trump's direct messages on Twitter. They were reportedly -- there were reportedly many DMs.

The transcripts also gave additional hints into what the special counsel was looking for before they indicted Trump in the federal election subversion case.

Our senior crime and justice reporter Katelyn Polantz joins us now. Remember, it was just, you know, a week ago or so we were wondering, well, why would he need this? Right? We see the tweets. But this is about the ones we don't see and maybe even about drafts.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, actually. Phil and Poppy, Donald Trump, he doesn't e-mail, he doesn't text, but in this court transcript, in these court proceedings where the special counsel counsel's office went to Twitter and secretly was trying to get access to Donald Trump's Twitter account, it wasn't just those tweets he was posting publicly that they really wanted. They also wanted the direct messages.

And this is the first time we have ever heard that Donald Trump's Twitter account would have direct messages, private communications on that service, including ones, Poppy as you're mentioning, not just that he's sending to people, but ones that would have been deleted.

And so this all comes out in the series of hearings in February of this year as a judge is trying to get Twitter to respond to this warrant that the Justice Department had for these Twitter pieces of data.

And as the judge is looking for that and trying to figure out exactly what Twitter might have so that to make sure that they are complying with what the Justice Department is seeking, that's when this all comes out.

And one of the Twitter lawyers even says in court, "We were able to determine that there was some volume in that for this account," talking about direct messages. "There are confidential communications."

So this lawyer is asserting in court, yes, indeed, Donald Trump's Twitter account has direct messages.

And then the Justice Department says -- they talk a little bit more about what they want, and there's just a list of what they were looking for, in different ways that they're trying to find messages; messages between government officials, between Trump and others in the government, between government officials and Twitter, and crucially, Phil and Poppy, four messages that would have been sent around the time that Donald Trump's Twitter was suspended. Not only on January 6th, but in the days after, when that account was taken down.

MATTINGLY: Katelyn, I was curious last night when I saw your reporting, saw the headline, was reading through the story. You're an expert at mining filings for nuggets that provide more context, more insight into ongoing investigations that we didn't know beforehand.

Should we expect pieces like this to be coming out over the course of the coming weeks and months? Are we going to learn more about this through not necessarily official proceedings, but just in filings alone?

POLANTZ: Yes, absolutely, Phil. I mean, at least I hope that we will. Because there's a lot of sealed proceedings that have been happening in this special counsel's investigation. And only whenever there's some sort of decision by the court that the matter is final enough that they can release it do they release it.

And so there's still just a trove of information where the special counsel office was getting information. And we just don't know how the proceedings went until we see the documents.

MATTINGLY: Yes. It's a great reminder that there's still a lot we don't know. Katelyn Polantz, great reporting, as always. Thank you.

HARLOW: It's a great reminder of why we need Katelyn Polantz --

MATTINGLY: Yes.

HARLOW: -- to dig through them.

MATTINGLY: I don't need a reminder why I need Katelyn Polantz.

HARLOW: Amen to that.

New this morning, though, to the tragedy that continues in Hawaii. Urgent questions about what caused those fires in Maui that have now been blamed for 106 deaths.

And we want to remind you, that number only accounts for 27 percent of the search being completed.

A big focus is the power lines this morning. We don't know what started any of the fires, but there is video that may show a power pole faulting and then falling over seconds before these flames emerge.

We should note this is not the blaze that destroyed Lahaina. This is a different part of the island last Monday. It is from a bird conservation center, surfaced by "The Washington Post."

MATTINGLY: So watch what happens here. A few seconds in, you're going to see a big flash in the video you're watching right now. Then the camera pans several different times to the ceiling, to the ground, then back to the ceiling. By the time it refocuses, just a second here, you're going to see the flames.

And at the same time of that first flash, "The Washington Post" reports ten sensors went off in the town where the sensors are located. And experts say that flash is likely a, quote, "arc flash," something that happens when a powerline gets knocked down, releasing its power.

Hawaiian Electric has not responded to "The Washington Post," but they did release a statement, saying, quote, "We know there is speculation about what started the fires, and we, along with others, are working hard to figure out exactly what happened."

[06:10:07]

CNN's Mike Valerio is live for us in the Maalaea checkpoint, Maui. Mike, we're hearing that hot spots continue to flare up in many areas several days from the initial fires.

MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Phil, that's right. Good morning to you.

And firefighters still have tons of work ahead of them, but I think that the emotional gravity point, you know, that we're focused on here so deeply is the effort to identify the human remains that are found a couple miles behind the camera.

And what we mean by that is that Governor Green was on the air with our terrific colleague Kaitlan Collins a few hours ago. And he very much set the tone and set the tempo and expectations for people here all throughout the island; that this not only will just be a few days to get all the wildfires under control, but it will be weeks until all of the dead are identified.

So to that end, Phil and Poppy, we have a few numbers for you. Thirteen DNA profiles out of all of the bodies that have been found, that is what we have so far. Authorities are asking people to come into a community center right near Maui's central airport so they can develop more DNA profiles, make more DNA matches.

So far, they only have 41 DNA samples to try to make those matches.

Now, earlier yesterday, we heard from a man who took it upon himself to show up at Maui's central morgue to try to identify his father. His stepfather, I should say, was one of the people clinging to the rocks on Front Street; did not survive. His mother and his family dog did survive.

Listen to what this man told us a couple hours ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's gone. I just went and identified the body. The police have really helped, but I have run into a lot of people that are standing tired. I'm tired, too. I haven't slept in six days. And -- and I just -- like I said, I just want to identify his body and put him at rest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALERIO: So what it's been analogized to, Phil and Poppy, although completely different circumstances, but if you remember back to the days after 9/11, when finding human remains and the identification process took months, DNA. Crushed and very difficult to reconstruct the molecules and match them with the DNA from living family members.

Governor Josh Green saying on our air earlier yesterday that is the situation that we're dealing with here. And I think that that has yet to sink into the consciousness of the island. Because it was just a week ago that the unthinkable happened outside of the realm of possibility.

Now to think that we could have weeks and weeks of not knowing who has died, how many people have died, it's just going to be a long process for this to continue -- Poppy and Phil.

HARLOW: Mike Valerio, thank you very much. Just adding to the pain of family members, waiting for answers.

MATTINGLY: Right.

HARLOW: That it's going to take this long.

And next hour we're going to be joined by the White House press secretary, Karine Jean-Pierre, about President Biden's response to the tragedy and his plans to visit Hawaii.

MATTINGLY: Also, Donald Trump's GOP rivals for the presidential nomination are offering mixed reactions to that fourth indictment.

HARLOW: And the new special counsel overseeing Hunter Biden's criminal case says his previous deal with prosecutors on that felony gun charge is now invalid. What does that mean for the president's son and his legal jeopardy? Ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:17:17]

MATTINGLY: We're seeing a wide range of reaction from 2024 GOP candidates when it comes to President Trump's latest and fourth indictment.

Governor Ron DeSantis called it, quote, "a criminalization of politics." Senator Tim Scott says it's, quote, "un-American and unacceptable."

Will Hurd, the former Texas congressman, saying, quote, "This is further evidence that Trump knew he lost the 2020 election and was ready to do anything it took to cling to power."

Joining us now, CNN senior political analyst and anchor, John Avlon; CNN political commentator Bakari Sellers; and Maura Gillespie, who served as the deputy chief of staff to Congressman Adam Kinzinger.

Maura, I want to start with you, as somebody who is deeply engrained in kind of Republican politics, and the House Republican Conference. You look at the range. Will Hurd has made very clear from the start that Trump and Trump's behavior was going to be a central issue for him.

Other Republican candidates who are higher up in the polls right now, still about 30 points down, have been very different and had a different posture. The different posture that, I think, befuddles people, to some degree, since you're running against the guy, they're clearly seeing something in the numbers, though, that says don't go down that path of criticizing him. Why?

MAURA GILLESPIE, FORMER DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF TO REP. ADAM KINZINGER: Their campaigns have done their research and, for whatever reason, they choose to not say the truth and to not call this out for what it is.

This is not normal. The man has been indicted four times. And he's about to release his report on Monday, further proving that he won the election?

It really does call into question his sense of judgment. His character, obviously, is on display here, as far as being indicted four times.

But I think I was, you know, disappointed by Tim Scott's reaction. It's not surprising that the campaigns are looking for people to target their weaponization, because they're going to point out things like Stacey Abrams not conceding. They're going to point out things like the Fani Willis, her not being able to -- yes, not being able to question Doug Jones because of a fundraiser she had for his opponent.

So they're going to call onto these things to say that this is corrupt and an abuse of power; because they don't want to actually address the elephant in the room, pun intended, which is Donald Trump.

HARLOW: What do you make of Tim Scott calling it un-America? Maura's disappointed. And he's the one who said I'm going to run a, you know, positive campaign, and he's seeing a boost in poll numbers. Why is he choosing this route?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think Tim Scott's response is utter B.S. That's first.

Second, I think that Tim -- Tim is actually good for the Republican Party. I think his positive vision on what the future of America should look like is actually good for the Republican Party.

I disagree with Tim on some of the substance and policy. You know, Time and I differ on the role of racism and the white supremacy and the founding of this country, et cetera. That has to be said.

But I'm not sure why Tim is afraid to take that next step. And I think Tim has a lot of growth in the numbers, if he does take that next step.

[06:20:02]

There is a little hedging, I think. And I think that hedging is the possibility of a political future on a ticket with Donald Trump. But then I think a lot of people understand that Donald Trump is going to be the nominee. And so you can't go out there and slap the person and then want them to choose you to -- you know, want them to choose you to be the vice president.

And there's a lot of Tim just wanting to run his own race and not worry about Donald Trump.

The problem is that they put Baby in the corner. They literally -- they have to deal with the elephant that is Donald Trump. You can't run a race and not address the issue.

And so, yes, I'm disappointed in it, but I see the politics behind it. Tim is better than that answer, but -- but here we are. Donald Trump brings people down to his level; and the problem is none of them want to rise to a new level.

MATTINGLY: Just for context, the inside joke between John and Bakari, we were talking about babies in the corner during the break. That's why they were laughing and pointing at one another. There wasn't much more to it than that.

SELLERS: Thank you, Phil, for that.

MATTINGLY: Right? People are watching are are like, Why are they laughing and pointing at each other? What happened?

I want to fill in on something Maura brought up. Because since the former president tweeted about -- or truth -- whatever he did.

HARLOW: Truth Social.

MATTINGLY: About -- yes, Truth Social. Truth --

JOHN AVLON, CNN ANCHOR/SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Not a verb.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Truthed about this alleged report he's going to produce that is going to definitively prove fraud in Georgia, despite the fact that there were multiple audits, that every single vote was recounted. The fact that this has been relitigated over and over again, both in court and on the state level by Republican officials. And every single time, he's been proven to lie.

My question, and first I want to show this, because this is important. Governor Brian Kemp from Georgia, who is a Rock Ridge (ph) conservative, Republicans who like Republican policies like Brian Kemp, tweeted, quote, "The 2020 election in Georgia was not stolen. For nearly three years now, anyone with evidence of fraud has failed to come forward under oath and prove anything in a court of law. Our elections in Georgia are secure, accessible and fair and will continue to be as long as I am governor. The future of our country is at stake in 2024. That must be our focus."

This, however, is going to pull all of these candidates who have refused to say anything negative about Donald Trump down this rabbit hole of, is it fraudulent, is this report accurate? And we have seen this over and over again in the last seven years, where you give Trump space, if you're a Republican, because you don't want to upset his base.

And then you find yourself in this position where they're going to have to defend a report they know is a lie; or refute Trump and do the thing they've been scared of doing for the last six months.

AVLON: Look, campaigns are about contrasts at the end of the day. Even primaries. And this is what Bakari is pointing out.

We also get, you know, the mathematical issue for these candidates. They want to be able to pick up Trump supporters and donors and possibly keep some VP role open, so they're afraid to confront.

But that ends up carrying you down a path where you're defining deviancy down, where you end up being complicit in a lie.

And look, I look forward to the report. We all know what it's going to be. And your quote from Brian Kemp was exactly right. That's the refutation. It's court cases. It's individual states. It's audits. It's Republicans. And that needs to be said over and over again until all Donald Trump has left is a defense that he's in his own delusional world.

But when candidates start unnecessarily, I think, like Tim Scott did, who's a -- who is better than this, I think. I agree with Bakari on this. Says it's un-American and unacceptable. We need to just remember what's American and unacceptable is trying to overturn an election on the basis of a lie to stay in power.

SELLERS: But I also want to piggyback, because she brought up some Republican talking points that I've been hearing a lot. And people want to compare it to Stacey Abrams, or they want to compare it to Bush v. Gore, right? Or they want to compare it to -- Geoff Duncan had the audacity to put John Lewis in his mouth on Twitter yesterday when John Lewis and many others wanted to push back against the 2016 election because of Russia interference and everything else.

The difference is there are paths and pathways, as Jack Smith said, to contest an election in the court of law. If you think that an election was done wrong or you won the election, or whatever, you can say that. If you have proof or evidence, you can adjudicate those things.

The difference between that and what Donald Trump did are the 170 overt acts they took that Fanny -- that, excuse me, Fani laid out, Fani Willis laid out in her indictment that show that they actually took concrete steps, in a conspiracy, to overthrow an election. They were breaking into facilities. It wasn't just, Oh, my God, I'm in

my head. I believe this. They were on phone calls actually taking over -- it's intent meets action, which is the crime. So that is -- that is the difference between this and everything else.

GILLESPIE: And I agree. I just think that, when they bring up this, you know, weaponization of power, we can't ignore the fact that Stacey Abrams did not concede the 2018 election. We can't ignore the fact that Fani Willis had this fundraiser.

So yes, do I -- it does not negate the fact that Donald Trump lost the 2020 election and he tried to -- not only did he fail to concede, he also then tried to use his power to influence state officials and beyond to overturn the results of the election. It doesn't negate any of that.

[06:25:07]

But to simply just brush that aside and say it's not fair, or it doesn't matter. It shouldn't be ignored.

SELLERS: But I think that -- I think that's apples and elephants.

HARLOW: Should I -- can I ask fast, what's the point of doing it in this moment?

GILLESPIE: I completely agree. That I said that. I didn't.

HARLOW: OK.

(CROSSTALK)

GILLESPIE: I was just -- I was just saying, it was a point about Tim Scott's response. But I think --

HARLOW: Not you saying it, Maura.

GILLESPIE: No.

HARLOW: It's the point of them making that argument.

GILLESPIE: Because they're not going to go after Trump, which for whatever reason. They're not going to go after his directly.

So they go after what they see as a winning argument, a winning --

HARLOW: Yes.

GILLESPIE: It's easier to go after Democrats, because they're not going to go after each other.

HARLOW: Sure.

GILLESPIE: They want to look beyond that. But what's at stake here is the integrity of our free and fair elections.

HARLOW: Yes. That's why I'm so glad you read that, standing up for it in the state.

MATTINGLY: Yes. As he did throughout the course --

HARLOW: Totally.

MATTINGLY: -- of November, December and January of 2020 and 2021. Remember, at the same time when everybody was saying in November, let Trump punch him -- punch himself out.

AVLON: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Nothing is going to happen. Nothing is going to happen. He's just -- he's just venting.

HARLOW: How did that go for him?

Thanks, you guys.

MATTINGLY: Thanks, guys.

You're coming back? Right?

SELLERS: Yes.

MATTINGLY: We'll see in a little bit.

HARLOW: This now. North Korea has just confirmed -- this is their first official confirmation -- that the man you see on your screen -- that is U.S. Army Private Travis King -- is there in North Korea. We'll take live to South Korea with the details on that, ahead.

MATTINGLY: And a judge in Orange County, California called out of work and told a coworker that's because he, quote, "shot his wife." Now he's pleading not guilty to a murder. When we're learning about that story, this morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: A judge in Orange County, California, has just pleaded not guilty to murdering his wife. The 72-year-old judge, Jeffrey Ferguson, is accused of killing his wife at their home earlier this month after an argument in a nearby restaurant.

[06:30:00]