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CNN This Morning
"The Blind Side" Family Calls Ex-NFL Star Michael Oher's Accusations "Absurd"; Giuliani Says He's Out Of Cash After Defending Trump; Kansas Bureau Of Investigation Leading Probe Into Unprecedented Police Raid Of Local Newspaper. Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired August 16, 2023 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:30:00]
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: A great conversation, Phil.
All right. Ahead for us, the family made famous by the Oscar-winning movie "The Blind Side" is now pushing back hard against retired NFL star Michael Oher, who claims they withheld money from him. What they're saying, next.
(COMMERCIAL)
MATTINGLY: Well, just into CNN, actor Alec Baldwin could once again face manslaughter charges for the shooting on the movie set "Rust" after a forensic report released Tuesday found that his revolver would only fire if the trigger was pulled. Independent gun testing on the weapon used in the fatal shooting shows that the trigger on the gun had to be pulled, the gun fired normally and did not malfunction.
Involuntary manslaughter charges were dismissed against the actor in April after evidence suggested the opposite -- that he may not have pulled the trigger, and that's something Baldwin has repeatedly said since the death of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC CO-ANCHOR, "GOOD MORNING AMERICA": It wasn't in the script for the trigger to be pulled.
ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: Well, the trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So you never pulled the trigger?
BALDWIN: No, no, no, no, no. I would never point a gun at anyone and pull a trigger at them -- never, never. That was the training that I had. You don't point a gun at somebody and pull the trigger.
[07:35:00]
On day one of my instruction in this business, people said to me never take a gun and go click, click, click, click, click because even though it's incremental you damage the firing pin on the gun if you do that. Don't do that. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: Now, CNN previously reported that the dismissal decision didn't absolve Baldwin of criminal culpability and charges may be refiled.
HARLOW: We'll follow that.
Meantime, the family made famous by that Oscar-winning movie "The Blind Side" is now pushing back against former NFL star Michael Oher's claims that they withheld a lot of money from him. The Tuohy family's lawyer called Oher's accusations a $15 million shakedown.
On Monday, Oher filed a petition saying that the family lied about his -- about their plans to adopt him and put him under a conservatorship instead. He says they used that conservatorship to keep millions of dollars from him.
Brynn Gingras is following this. She's with us at the table again this morning. You said yesterday there is more to this story, and there is.
BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And I'm going to say it again --
HARLOW: Yes.
GINGRAS: -- there's actually more to the story. I think there's still questions that we don't know answers to, like why did Michael Oher come forward now? He learned about the conservatorship back in February. Why file this lawsuit now?
Well, the Tuohys have something to say about that, which is a long statement that their --
HARLOW: Yes.
GINGRAS: -- attorneys released on their behalf. They essentially said, just as you said, it was part of a shakedown. That he's actually approached the family trying to get $15 million out of them, saying that he'll plant some negativity in the press if they don't give him money. And they actually said that he's tried to do this multiple times, which is something their son, S.J., said to Bleacher -- Barstool Sports just yesterday.
Let me read you, though, something about the conservatorship because that was another question we had --
HARLOW: Right.
GINGRAS: -- right? Why are they not addressing is this a conservatorship or is this --
HARLOW: Or an adoption.
GINGRAS: -- an adoption. Well, they do address it a little bit. Let me read you what they said in this statement. It says, "The Tuohys have always been upfront about how a conservatorship (from which not one penny was received ) was established to assist with Mr. Oher's needs, ranging from getting him health insurance and obtaining a driver's license to helping with college admissions. Should Mr. Oher wish to terminate the conservatorship, either now or at any time in the future, the Tuohys will never oppose it in any way."
It answers a little bit but also leaves some questions. How far did that conservatorship go, right? We know that it's possible they could have still been making money off of Michael Oher. So those are some, still, questions we're still bringing to the attorneys and not quite getting responses just yet.
A different side of this -- tough. If you can believe it, the actors are receiving backlash from "The Blind Side" and this whole controversy playing out in real life.
And the actor Quinton Aaron, who played Michael Oher, talked to the New York Post and was having to not only respond to these allegations, saying he's devastated by them, but also defend Sandra Bullock who won an Academy Award for her role playing Leigh Anne Tuohy. And she's apparently receiving a lot of online hate --
HARLOW: Really?
GINGRAS: -- at least on what's happening right now in the public.
And so, he said about this for Sandra. "Sandra did nothing wrong. That's my girl and she is going through a really tough time right now. I really feel like they should leave her alone and stop trying to come at her."
So that's a different angle this -- if you can believe that people are wondering why Sandra Bullock didn't research the role more. How did she not know about this? I mean, obviously, armchair quarterback here.
MATTINGLY: I mean, it's based on her book. Maybe, like, the book.
GINGRAS: It's based on the book.
MATTINGLY: Like, it's a Michael Lewis book.
GINGRAS: Right.
MATTINGLY: That's the dumbest thing -- sorry. OK, I'm -- like, I'm fascinated with the story.
GINGRAS: It's happening, right? Are you surprised?
MATTINGLY: That element is, like, people, you have -
HARLOW: But also --
MATTINGLY: -- too much time on your hands.
HARLOW: Did we --
GINGRAS: Yes.
HARLOW: To Phil's point, did we know all of these issues he had with the family when this movie came out?
GINGRAS: No.
MATTINGLY: No.
GINGRAS: I mean, this is --
HARLOW: So how could she have known?
GINGRAS: Exactly.
MATTINGLY: Yes. No.
HARLOW: OK.
MATTINGLY: That's not the element to focus on. That's just dumb. The story, though --
GINGRAS: But are you surprised again --
MATTINGLY: -- is --
HARLOW: Yes.
GINGRAS: -- that this is what's happening?
MATTINGLY: There's a lot more to come.
HARLOW: Thank you, Brynn.
MATTINGLY: Brynn, thank you so much.
HARLOW: I suspect we'll see you tomorrow.
GINGRAS: Yes.
HARLOW: Thank you.
MATTINGLY: Well, Rudy Giuliani was one of the pioneers of using the RICO statute in prosecutions. Now he finds himself targeted by it after his indictment in Georgia. We're also learning he's struggling to pay his mounting legal bills. More on that coming up.
(COMMERCIAL)
[07:42:09]
MATTINGLY: Rudy Giuliani is saying a lot of things right now, including that he's effectively out of money as he faces hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal bills and sanctions after defending former President Donald Trump. He's also defending himself by saying this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP LAWYER: I'm the same Rudy Giuliani that went after the Mafia. I haven't changed one bit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: When Giuliani was a federal prosecutor in New York, he pioneered the takedown of Mafia bosses using RICO. That's exactly what he's facing now. He's being targeted by a similar racketeering statute in the state of Georgia after his indictment there.
Katelyn Polantz joins us from Washington, D.C. Gosh, it is fascinating. And he's also saying I know RICO better than anyone. This isn't the proper use of it. Is it?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Right. He's saying that he wants to fight this case in Georgia now that he is indicted criminally in that state related to what he was doing for Donald Trump after the election.
But Rudy Giuliani actually has a lot of other things on this plate right now. Namely, he appears to be out of cash. Now, he hasn't been able to share exact details in court. He's trying to not do that because he says it would embarrass him and draw attention to his misfortunes.
But we were able to pick through some court filings that do outline in lawsuits that he's facing related to his work for Donald Trump after the 2020 election just how much his bills have piled up right now. So, right now, he has $181,000 in current bills. That includes a judgment from a court last week saying he had to pay a phone bill for his company from 2020.
That he has to pay legal fees for two Georgia election workers who are suing him. That's what the sanction would be -- an $89,000 sanction. So that's not even what happens if he were to lose that case.
And then on top of that, he has a lot of bills for just keeping ahold of the records that he had in his various cell phones and other electronic equipment. He has that all in a company. And it costs money to do searches for those records every time he's getting sued. And also, it costs money just to hold them with that company so that he has access to his electronic records.
It's a lot of legal bills.
But on top of that, he has debts, and one of the debts that has become public in these court proceedings is that he had a $320,000 debt to his company that was hosting his electronic records. Donald Trump's PAC, Save America, has paid that off. We learned that from the court filings.
But this is not even capturing the full scope of the amount of money Rudy Giuliani is just being bogged down with in order to fend off just lawsuits related to the 2020 election and other court proceedings.
HARLOW: If he's actually out of cash does he just have two options -- pro bono representation or a public defender?
[07:45:00]
POLANTZ: Those would be some options. The other options would be to get some cash based on some of the assets he has.
So one of the things that we know Rudy Giuliani has done recently is put a three-bedroom Manhattan apartment up for sale --
HARLOW: OK.
POLANTZ: -- for $6.5 million. It's only been listed for a couple of days and as far as I can tell, it doesn't have a bid or a sale on it yet. But he's listing that property of his in Manhattan.
But Phil and Poppy, step back -- stepping back a second, we're talking about bills he has right now for lawsuits that have been going on --
HARLOW: Yes.
POLANTZ: -- that are not even at the end. If he gets judgments against him for things where he is already conceding he was making false statements about the 2020 election, those bills could skyrocket, and that doesn't even factor into how much it costs to defend yourself in criminal court.
MATTINGLY: All right, Katelyn Polantz, great reporting. Thank you.
And joining us now is CNN senior political analyst and anchor, John Avlon. All right, John, I always ask our friend of the show -- he's not here anymore but he will be back at some point.
HARLOW: John's not a friend of the show?
MATTINGLY: No, he's a friend of the show as well. That's my point. Scott Jennings -- whenever I'm talking about Mitch McConnell --
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST AND ANCHOR: Yes.
MATTINGLY: -- I look at Scott and say that's your former boss.
AVLON: Yes.
MATTINGLY: Tell me what's up.
That's your former boss.
HARLOW: Oh gosh.
AVLON: It is, indeed.
MATTINGLY: What's up? AVLON: This is a tragedy. I mean, in so many ways, Rudy Giuliani's association and defense with Donald Trump has destroyed his reputation and his personal finances. And he's done it basically all for free, which is to say that acting as Donald Trump's lawyer there's no evidence he was actually paid for that work. Now, some of his expenses have been reimbursed and you saw part of that from Katelyn.
But this is a man who, in 2018 during his divorce proceedings --
MATTINGLY: Yes.
AVLON: -- had an estimated net worth of more than $30 million. That came out in court. So this was a man who was very wealthy in the wake of his --
MATTINGLY: Yes.
AVLON: -- lifetime of public service when he was pioneering the RICO statutes. And to see him now to this place where the irony of RICO statutes being used against him in the Georgia case, the sheer volume of court cases designed -- all focused on his defense of Donald Trump, and the damage he has done to his reputation -- lighting it on fire -- the man who was America's mayor -- one of the most successful prosecutors in his generation, now having a hard time selling his apartment.
HARLOW: Yes.
AVLON: It's just --
HARLOW: And so critical to New York.
AVLON: He -- enormously effective mayor.
HARLOW: Yes.
AVLON: Enormously influential mayor beyond 9/11.
HARLOW: Yes.
AVLON: And to see where he is today is a tragedy. And you would think that the former president would help him more than he has given how much he sacrificed for him.
MATTINGLY: You would think.
John Avlon, thanks.
Well, the Kansas Bureau of Investigation is now leading the investigation into last Friday's police raid of a local newspaper. The situation -- it's garnered national attention and sparked serious First Amendment concerns. The publisher and owner of that paper joins us next.
(COMMERCIAL)
[07:51:30]
HARLOW: Welcome back.
We do have new developments this morning in that police raid of a local newspaper in Kansas. The Kansas Bureau of Investigations is now leading that probe into last Friday's raid of the Marion County Record. Police searched both the home and the office of the newspaper's owner, and they seized computers and phones, and servers of reporters and editors.
And authorities claim the raid stemmed from an investigation into identity theft. A coffee shop owner had accused the paper of illegally obtaining documents about a DUI she received about 15 years ago. But the paper says they got those from a source. They were then trying to verify the information and that they only published it after she started accusing them publicly.
We should note the coffee shop owner previously barred the paper from covering a public event with a Republican member of Congress.
Marion County Record publisher and editor Eric Meyer says that his 98- year-old mother Joann, who was a co-owner of the paper, by the way, collapsed and died on Saturday -- the day after police raided her home.
According to the paper, Meyer had been, quote, "stressed beyond her limits and overwhelmed by hours of shock and grief after the illegal police raids."
And Eric joins us now. Good morning, Eric. We are all deeply --
ERIC MEYER, PUBLISHER AND OWNER, MARION COUNTY RECORD (via Webex by Cisco): Good morning.
HARLOW: -- sorry for the loss of your mother.
MEYER: Thank you -- appreciate that.
HARLOW: Of course.
We reached out to the police about all of this because they did this and they were handling the investigation prior, and we didn't hear back. But I do want to read people a statement from the police chief on Sunday. It said, "I believe when the rest of the story is available to the public, the judicial system that is being questioned will be vindicated."
Have you gotten any more answers from police about why they did this?
MEYER: We finally were able to obtain the probable cause affidavit --
HARLOW: Oh.
MEYER: -- that is supposed to support the search warrant. It was filed three days after the searches were conducted -- now, which is a little suspicious. But interestingly, it refutes most of the things -- claims against us.
And one of the allegations was that we obtained this document and gave it to the vice mayor. And in the document itself, the vice mayor says that she got it from the same source we got it from, which supports our contention.
One of the things we don't understand is we actually told them about this. This was our disclosure to them --
HARLOW: Yes.
MEYER: -- that we thought that there was a document out there that maybe somebody had improperly done. And also, there was an allegation that police were ignoring the fact that the restaurant owner had been driving for 14 years without a driver's license. So we alerted the police to it. They never asked us a single question.
And I understand it, search warrants -- search warrants are supposed to be sort of a last resort if you can't get the information any other way. They could have asked.
HARLOW: Well, that --
MEYER: We would have given it to them.
HARLOW: Well, that's right.
MEYER: In fact, here is the document we obtained. It was sitting on my desk next to the computer they seized. They didn't take it.
HARLOW: Look, the fact that -- and this is the first time I'm learning and we're learning through our reporting that the probable cause affidavit was submitted after this magistrate judge granted a search warrant, I think that raises important questions.
I do want to note you have said that you -- the paper was investigating, at one point, the police chief, Gideon Cody, but never published that investigation. You weren't able to verify some of the claims.
Do you have any reason to believe that investigation factored into this raid?
MEYER: I -- just speculation.
HARLOW: OK.
MEYER: There are oddities about his coming here. There also are longstanding animosities in this town among various different factions.
[07:55:05]
When I talked to the restaurant owner after she accused us of stealing her documents, she said oh, I wasn't out to try to get you on this. I was trying to get the vice mayor.
The vice mayor's house was also raided. Her computer and her phone were also seized at the same time.
HARLOW: This is obviously very important to you, your community, and your paper -- but this is very important to America because this is about First Amendment and freedom of the press. Your lawyer, as I understand it, from The New York Times, wrote a letter to the police chief and said that they are treating your paper like a drug cartel or a street gang.
And you are filing a federal lawsuit? Is that right? And if so, on what grounds?
MEYER: We are planning to. Violation of the First, Fourth, and Fifth Amendments among other things. But that has not happened yet. We're hopeful that now that the KBI has taken over that there may be some cooler heads that prevail, shall we say. And they apparently are going to examine not only what the evidence says but whether it was proper to go after it the way they were going after it.
HARLOW: Dozens of news organizations, including CNN, have condemned what we're seeing here. The press -- the Freedom of the Press Foundation called this the latest example of American law enforcement officers treating the press in a manner previously associated with authoritarian regimes.
Can you just, Eric, speak to the bigger picture here about -- as a journalist and someone who has dedicated his life? You've been there all night trying to get the paper out this morning despite all of this. Just what this indicates to you.
MEYER: Well, I've never heard of this before in the United States. There was one case years and years ago involving a student newspaper. But where you hear of this is in the third world.
I had a grad student -- I was a faculty member at the University of Illinois for many years and I had a grad student from Egypt who talked about things like this regularly happening in the -- in the authoritarian regime in Egypt. And we, in fact, did a paper on how this damaged journalism that prevented journalists from actually getting information and being able to state it clearly and concisely so people could understand it.
This will -- this will dry up sources. We've had people -- since we've lost our computers, I can't get on Facebook because I've got a thing that's tied into my cell phone. I -- somebody called up and said hey, there's this really interesting thing you ought to read on Facebook. And I said I can't look at it.
HARLOW: Yes.
MEYER: Can you send it to me? My God, no, I can't send it to you. They might come and seize my computer.
I don't know. The original leak in this was -- the original leak to the document was
probably a gimmick in a divorce case, and that's part of the reason why we didn't run it.
HARLOW: Yes.
MEYER: But --
HARLOW: Well, Eric --
MEYER: But, yeah, we had investigated the chief and we couldn't get anywhere with it, although we are now hearing additional things about that.
HARLOW: OK.
MEYER: So we may start it up again. Unfortunately, all of our notes are --
HARLOW: Gone.
MEYER: -- in the possession of the chief right now. Yes -- even they seized a computer of a reporter who was working on that but was gone the week that all this happened. She'd been sick that week.
HARLOW: Well --
MEYER: So we don't even know why they took that computer.
HARLOW: Eric, you're welcome back as you learn more. We have invited and keep the invitation open for the police chief, the sheriff -- anyone from that police department to join us on the program. And congratulations on getting the paper out this morning regardless.
MEYER: Yeah, it was a major ordeal, but we made it.
HARLOW: I bet.
MEYER: And we were going to do it if we had to handwrite it on pieces of paper and deliver it on the streets. But we got it out.
HARLOW: Dedication to the trade. And there is your headline "Seized...but not silenced."
Eric Meyer, thank you.
MEYER: Thank you.
MATTINGLY: Donald Trump and -- that was a very important discussion.
HARLOW: Thank you.
MATTINGLY: A very important story.
Donald Trump and his co-defendants have nine days to surrender in Georgia. What we are learning. What they could expect when they're arrested.
(COMMERCIAL)
[08:00:00]
