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CNN This Morning
Today: Giuliani to Meet with Fulton County's D.A. Office; Tonight: 8 Candidates Face Off in First GOP Debate; Philadelphia Shooting Video Contradicts Police Report. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired August 23, 2023 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Glad you're with us. It is officially debate day.
[06:00:37]
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.
HARLOW: Debate morning.
BLACKWELL: We're ready.
HARLOW: We're ready. I'm looking forward to it. Victor Blackwell here by my side. And a lot of news happening this morning. Here are "Five Things to Know" for this Wednesday, August 23.
This breaking overnight. Two more of Donald Trump's co-defendants have turned themselves into the Fulton County Jail on charges related to efforts to overturn the 2020 election.
This means four of the 19 have surrendered so far ahead of the deadline, which is Friday at noon. Trump says he will surrender tomorrow.
BLACKWELL: Also new overnight, we're getting our first look at the mugshots of the first two codefendant who turned themselves in: John Eastman and Scott Hall. Eastman is considered the architects of the legal strategy to try and overturn the election.
Rudy Giuliani is expected to meet with the Fulton County district attorney's office later today. Now, the goal is to work out his bond agreement before the end of the week. Giuliani is still looking for a Georgia-based lawyer to negotiate that surrender.
HARLOW: Former chief of staff Mark Meadows is putting up a fight against Georgia District Attorney Fani Willis. He is now asking a federal judge to block her from arresting him, while he tries to move his case to federal court.
BLACKWELL: And of course, all this is happening as the stage is set for the first Republican primary debate, tonight in Milwaukee. Ron DeSantis and Vivek Ramaswamy, they will be center position, sharing it there.
CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.
HARLOW: We begin this morning with the breaking news that two more of Donald Trump's co-defendants have surrendered at the Fulton County Jail as Trump himself prepares to turn himself in on those felony charges for the alleged scheme to overturn the election results in Georgia.
David Shafer and Cathy Latham were arrested and booked in the early morning hours. You'll remember Shafer is the former chair of the Georgia Republican Party, and he allegedly convened fake electors to fraudulently declare Trump the winner.
As for Cathy Lathan, she was one of those fake electors. She is also accused of helping Trump operatives gain illegal access to voting systems and voter data in the county right there, Coffee County, where she was GOP chair.
BLACKWELL: Sources tell CNN that Rudy Giuliani will be meeting with the Fulton County district attorney's office today to work out a bond agreement for his surrender.
And this is all casting a shadow over the first GOP presidential primary [SIC] tonight -- the debate, rather. Trump is skipping it. Instead, he'll be getting ready to turn himself in tomorrow in Georgia and be arrested for the fourth time this year.
CNN's Nick Valencia is live outside the Fulton County Jail. So we could, of course, see more co-defendants turning themselves in today. They've got a deadline that's coming up quickly.
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We certainly anticipate to see more activity here. And overnight, a flurry of activity outside this infamous jail here in Fulton County as more defendants in the subversion case began turning themselves in.
We're getting our first glimpse now at what this process may look like when the former president does the same on Thursday.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VALENCIA (voice-over): With the August 25 deadline rapidly approaching, former President Donald Trump's co-defendants are turning themselves in at the Fulton County Jail in Georgia.
And just this morning, former Georgia GOP chair, David Shafer, and the former chair of the Coffee County Republican Party, Cathy Latham, have turned themselves in. Both are facing multiple charges for meddling in the 2020 Georgia presidential election, including a plot to use fake electors.
And former Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani is set to meet with the Fulton County D.A.'s office today to work out a bond agreement, according to multiple sources.
JOHN EASTMAN, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: I'm here today to surrender to an indictment that should never have been brought. VALENCIA (voice-over): On Tuesday, former Trump attorney John Eastman remaining defiant in the wake of his surrender and booking, saying an indictment should have never been brought.
EASTMAN: It represents a crossing of the Rubicon for our country, implicating the fundamental First Amendment right to petition the government for redress of grievances.
VALENCIA (voice-over): Eastman, a right-wing lawyer, advised Trump on plots to disrupt Congress's certification of the 2020 presidential election results.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you regret attaching your name to the former president?
EASTMAN: Not whatsoever.
VALENCIA (voice-over): Along with Eastman, bail bondsman Scott Hall also turned himself in on Tuesday. Hall is accused of being involved in the Coffee County, Georgia, voting systems breach.
Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has charged Donald Trump and 18 others with interference in Georgia's 2020 presidential election.
[06:05:06]
Trump, who agreed to a $200,00 bond and other release conditions on Monday, said he plans to turn himself in on Thursday.
Three of the defendants, including former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows; former Department of Justice official Jeffrey Clark; and former Georgia GOP chairman David Shafer, are seeking to move their charges to federal court, due to their roles or connections to the federal government.
According to his court filing, while Shafer led the state's delegation of fake electors, he is not part of the federal government. But his attorney says he[p took orders from the top and "acted at the direction of the incumbent president and other federal officials."
Both Meadows and Clark are also requesting a federal court intervention to block their pending arrest in Georgia. Clark seeking an emergency hold on the state court proceedings, "including any attempted issuance or execution of arrest warrants."
And Meadows, in his filing, pointing to his upcoming hearing on Monday on whether the state prosecution moves to federal court; "District Attorney Fani Willis has made clear that she intends to arrest Mr. Meadows before this court's Monday hearing and has rejected out of hand a reasonable request to defer one business day until after this court's hearing."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VALENCIA: Defense attorneys I've spoken to say normally, when somebody shows up here who has a bond to turn themselves in, they waive their first appearance, but still have to go through the lengthy process of going through the system, which typically could take hours.
These defendants, however, are showing up and leaving in a matter of about an hour and 15 minutes.
The sheriff here, Fulton County Sheriff Pat Labat, says that these defendants aren't going to been given preferential treatment, but that seems not to be the case. We'll see if the former president is given any preferential treatment when he shows up here on Thursday -- Victor, Poppy.
HARLOW: Nick Valencia, thanks for the reporting.
BLACKWELL: All right. Joining us now is CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig. So we've got now four of the 19 who have turned themselves in. We know that Trump is scheduling his for tomorrow. As this is happening, as expected?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANLYST: Yes, this is how it goes. You negotiate the deal, first of all, with the D.A.'s office. It seems like that's been happening without too many hiccups. And then you can surrender any time you want between now and up til noon on Friday.
If they don't, by the way, then that leaves Fani Willis with the option of sending the cops out to arrest you with handcuffs and the whole thing that you want to avoid. So both sides have an incentive here to get these deals done, and so far they seem to be getting done apace.
HARLOW: I think what Eastman said yesterday is really interesting. We heard the part where he talked about -- you know, he said we have crossed the Rubicon as a country. This would be, you know, violating my First Amendment rights.
But then he went on to say, "It targets attorneys for their zealous advocacy on behalf of their clients, something attorneys are ethically bound to provide."
And that goes to sort of the same argument. There's the First Amendment argument and the advice of counsel argument. But is -- is what he's alleged to have done in the indictment just zealous advocacy? Because prosecutors say no, it was conduct.
HONIG: It all depends -- it all depends who you ask. This is exactly what the battle will be at trial. The prosecutors allege you went too far. You were not just giving legal advice.
HARLOW: Where is that line? Because that's a better way to ask it.
HONIG: Really, this is why this is going to be such an interesting, closely-contested case, because prosecutors' allegation is you went beyond lawyering.
HARLOW: Right.
HONIG: You were part of this conspiracy.
HARLOW: Admitted things.
HONIG: You sent things in. You sent documents in that on their face were untrue. You made statements to the court that you knew were untrue.
But his -- his defense is going to be I was engaged in aggressive, vigorous lawyering. That's not just a right but a responsibility. And if you criminalize that -- and there's eight lawyers, by the way, charged in this case -- then that's setting a dangerous precedent.
There's -- there's no way that you and -- the three of us sitting here today can resolve this. This is a difficult question that we'll leave it to a jury.
BLACKWELL: Mark Meadows, he's asking for some emergency action to prevent his arrest by the deadline on Friday. There is a hearing scheduled for Monday in this filing to remove the charges from state court to federal court.
HONIG: Right.
BLACKWELL: Do you think he will be successful here?
HONIG: So I don't think he's going to get his arrest and surrender blocked or pushed back. Mark Meadows and others are going to bring motions for what we call removal; have their cases taken out of state court, moved over to federal court.
But what he's asking the federal court to do is say also, give me extra time to surrender. I don't think the federal court is going to do that. They're going to hear this motion. They're going to decide it. That will take weeks, maybe months, but I don't think the federal courts have any interest in getting involved in the minutia of who surrenders when at the county jail.
HARLOW: But -- go ahead.
BLACKWELL: But they also knew that. The federal court knew the deadline was Friday when they scheduled the hearing for Monday.
HONIG: That's a great point.
BLACKWELL: One would expect that if you were going to intervene, you would have done it before.
HONIG: So why not hear it Wednesday? Why not a hearing Thursday? The fact that the federal court scheduled it for after, I think, is more indication that they're not going to get involved in micromanaging.
HARLOW: I just think it was also notable that Fani Willis sent this e- mail to Meadows' attorney, saying, I've been more than courteous. I'm giving you guys two weeks. That's more than a lot of people would get.
HONIG: She's absolutely right about that. I was surprised she gave them that long. And it really does cut down their ability to complain.
HARLOW: Can I ask you about something super interesting that happened overnight? And this is a name I'm looking for, because it's not that well-known. But this is in the special -- in the documents probe --
HONIG: Yes.
HARLOW: -- where we've learned. The Mar-a-Lago documents probe overnight, right, Tavares, who's an I.T. worker. I should note he's not been charged.
HONIG: Right.
HARLOW: He first basically told the special counsel, I haven't seen anything, don't know anything about deleting any security cam footage. He had a Trump-paid-for lawyer then.
He now has a public defender, not paid for by Trump. And what prosecutors are saying here is that they believe that his testimony was false then and are looking for new testimony now. What does that tell you?
HONIG: This happens all the time. I can't tell you how often anyone comes in as a witness. You would love for them to tell you the truth as a prosecutor, but initially says, I don't know anything. I didn't do anything. I didn't see anything.
You know that's not true a lot of times. And so you have to shake them loose.
Now what can get a person to sort of come around to telling the truth? Sometimes it's changing lawyers. Because we know Donald Trump has not just a habit, but a practice of paying for the lawyers for people around him. We've seen it for everybody from Cassidy Hutchinson to Walt Nauta.
And that's not inherently illegal, but what it does is it makes it more difficult for these folks to come forward and tell the full truth.
Now, if you're a prosecutor, you're looking at Mr. Tavares, thinking he's an important witness. The problem is he lied to us the first time.
HARLOW: Can we trust him now?
HONIG: Can we trust him now? And can we get a jury to trust him? And I've been in this situation. I've had witnesses who have denied it the first time. And you say, Look folks, he denied it the first time. There's no question about it. Circumstances change. Maybe he got a new lawyer, and now he's come clean.
And the question is can you back up what he says? So I expect him to be a witness in the courtroom for them.
BLACKWELL: All right. Elie Honig, thank you. We'll see you a little later.
HARLOW: All right. We appreciate it.
Also, as we said, it's debate night. Eight candidates, eight Republican candidates will make their pitches tonight to voters on the debate stage. The first one, it's in Milwaukee. The contenders are placed on the stage based on their rank in the polls. And now we're learning exactly what the order will be.
Our colleague Jessica Dean, live in Milwaukee with more. What's it going to look like tonight?
JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Now, good morning to you, Poppy.
We know that this is a conventional sort of event in any sort of primary in presidential primary history. But what we also know, as just laid out at the beginning of this show, is that this is anything but a conventional year.
The front runner won't even be here, of course. And for reasons that you all just discussed, he will be turning himself in tomorrow for the fourth time in a fourth indictment this year.
And in the meantime, there are eight other candidates that are going to be on the stage in the building right behind me that are hoping that this is going to be their moment to shine, that they can perhaps break out, use this moment to become the bone fide Trump alternative.
So far, that has been very hard. If you look at national polling, polling in early states, the former president continues to lead these candidates by double digits.
But the closest runner up, the person that's been running in second place in that polling is Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who has had several resets of his campaign since he launched it back in May, is looking to steady the ship.
His team really believes that he is going to be the target of a lot of incoming on that debate stage tonight. And the question for him is, if he can stand up to that and really make his case, is this a moment where he can really solidify -- solidify his place with voters.
Now also there on center stage will be Vivek Ramaswamy. And he has lesser name I.D., but he has been rising in the polls and is especially becoming a candidate that people who are very hard right in the Republican Party are looking to.
So we will see them there at the debate -- at the center of the debate stage. The rest of the eight candidates will fan out around them. All eight, of course, having to meet both polling and fundraising thresholds to get there on that debate stage.
But Poppy and Victor, again, this is just really kind of an X factor. Trump continues to loom over the stage. He won't even be there tonight. And there are so many questions about how these candidates will or won't talk about him. Will DeSantis defend him? Will Chris Christie, who has gone after him
numerous times, Asa Hutchinson, will they continue to do that? What will that dynamic look like? And what will it look like tomorrow morning?
And so many of these candidates, Poppy and Victor, will be introducing themselves to the American people for maybe the first time.
HARLOW: Yes. That's right. It would be nice to hear some policy discussion.
BLACKWELL: It will be nice.
DEAN: What a novel idea.
HARLOW: Jessica Dean, thanks for the reporting in Milwaukee.
BLACKWELL: Donald Trump's looming arrest still in the spotlight, as we said, from the first GOP presidential debate. How his rivals plan to seize it back tonight. Our political experts are here to discuss.
HARLOW: We're also getting an intense, firsthand look at these deadly wildfires that are right now whipping through Greece. Take a look at this video. The smoke just encompassing everything. A photojournalist caught right in the middle of it. One of our colleagues. This is a desperate battle near Athens as powerful winds whip the flames.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[06:15:05]
ELENI GIOKOS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Authorities, on the other hand, face a Sisyphean task of trying to put out these raging fires that have caused massive winds. You can see that I'm experiencing right now.
This family here, as you can see, watering down their homes. All these homes are at risk. Many homes have already been burned. The damage is extraordinary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:18:32]
BLACKWELL: Eight presidential hopefuls will take the debate stage in just a few hours. Former President Trump, as you know by now, will not participate. He's instead trolling the candidates.
His team has put out this website calling tonight the, quote, "Vice Presidential Debate." The candidates are photoshopped onto a podium and people can vote for their, quote, "favorite VP."
Vivek Ramaswamy has the lead, if you're wondering, over Trump's former VP, Mike Pence. With us now, CNN senior political analyst John Avlon and CNN political
commentator Errol Louis. Gentlemen, welcome to you.
This is the night that, you know, some of these candidates will first meet -- will be met by the voters. Doug Burgum, not many people know him. Vivek Ramaswamy's new to the political scene. And all of this happening around Trump kind of overshadows them. What do they do?
ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. Well, look, they've got a choice to make. They can either talk about policy or they can try and make a viral moment and try and introduce themselves that way and sort of have the rest of us do the work for them, to introduce them to 300 million people.
They're going to probably go to the latter. Because policy is hard, and it can get you in trouble. You have to start making choices and sort of -- They're talking about things that people don't necessarily want to hear.
I am hoping, though, despite everything that there will be some people who talk about trade policy or talk about what we're going to do with K-12 education in a real way. What we're going to do about reviving the economy. What we're going to do about the wildfires and the other extreme weather that is an existential threat to -- to the whole planet.
[06:20:02]
If they can get into all of that and start painting a real --
JOHN AVLON, CNN ANCHOR/SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Reasonable expectation.
LOUIS: Well, you know, one hopes. If they can start painting a vision of what a post-Trump Republican Party or conservative movement might look like, that would be a really good use of everybody's time.
On the other hand, their political incentive is to do almost the opposite and to be sort of shallow and look for jokes and zingers and viral moments.
HARLOW: One who might want to talk about policy is Vivek Ramaswamy. Because this is where he's been focusing a lot of his attention, particularly on foreign policy. There's a lot of important questions he should be asked about Israel, about what he's said about Taiwan and arming them, versus a potential Chinese incursion.
And he doesn't really want to hammer Trump. He wants to say, I like a lot of what he did, but I'm more substantiative. Can he live up to the hype in the poll numbers that he has right now?
AVLON: Look, he's got -- He's got a very uphill climb in this debate, because he has the shallowest resume, but he's the one who's been rising fastest in the polls, because he's giving a lot of folks --
HARLOW: Is it for (ph) his political resume? AVLON: Yes.
HARLOW: Yes. And the youngest.
AVLON: And the youngest. But I'm just saying, you know, traditionally, Americans you know, go for governors, senators, people -- people who had --
HARLOW: Yes, until Trump.
AVLON: Until Trump. But he had been famous for three decades with a reputation, via reality television, for being a successful businessman. So that -- you know, that is a different category than a relatively -- a relative newcomer, who's doing very well in terms of the polls, in part because he is talking about policy and ideas.
And I think that's part of the note. This is an opportunity. I've done debate prep. This is in part an opportunity to introduce yourself to the American people. You've got to plant a flag about what you believe. You've got to show some humanity, a sense of humor, but also dig into policy.
If policy is too tough for you, don't run for president. Because that's actually what the job is about. That's the debate we should be having.
And they -- if you can't take a shot at Donald Trump for trying to overturn a democracy, that's probably a disqualifier, as well.
But lean into your own ideas. Plant a flag. Tell people what you stand for. And that will elevate the debate inside the Republican Party and the national as a whole.
BLACKWELL: Also a proposal, and it came from the former president yesterday, a new tariff proposal that, if they decide to go there. Do you think people want to engage there?
AVLON: Let's just do a little background here. Because this is the kind of stuff that doesn't always get the attention it deserves.
Trump yesterday floated this idea of a 10 percent across the board tariff with his formerly free-market advisors Larry Kudlow and Stephen Moore. All right? This is protectionism on steroids. The kind of thing which they would have slammed and the Republican Party would have slammed across the board a decade ago, less, as some sort of, you know, Bernie Sanders fantasia.
So if Republicans can't take a shot at Donald Trump for the -- you can embrace a more populist economic message. But if you can't take a shot at Donald Trump as a matter of policy on this, it's second only to overturning a democracy.
This shouldn't be tough inside a Republican primary. So keep an eye on that.
LOUIS: And they're -- there's really no excuse for not having some ideas. Nobody expects you to sort of, you know, burst onto the stage full of all kinds of ideas if you haven't been around for 40 or 50 years.
But that's why we have universities, and think tanks, and magazines, and newspaper columns, and places where you can sort of pick up some ideas that you think might work. The Club for Growth will be glad to give you a task plan. You know, there's all kinds of places. The American Enterprise Institute. There's all kinds of places.
AVLON: Yes.
LOUIS: And they've spent a lot of time thinking through a lot of these issues. And what the people of this country need most of all right now are people to sort through a lot of that stuff, package it, pull it together. That's the essence of politics. And say --
AVLON: Crazy dreamer!
LOUIS: -- I think we can move forward -- I think we can move this country forward if we take these ideas on defense, these ideas on the economy, these ideas on the environment, and package them all together.
It's a very serious undertaking, although we're not necessarily going to be able to tell that from what's likely to happen tonight.
AVLON: We're not in a serious time. But this is actually what politics and presidential debates are supposed to be about. This is what actually running for president in a self-governing society is supposed to be about.
It's an obligation of citizens, not just people running for president. But if they can't clear their vault (ph), God help us all.
HARLOW: Trump is holding a fundraiser -- it is very expensive -- for Rudy Giuliani to help him with all these legal fees. A hundred thousand dollars a ticket, according to Shane Goldmacher in "The New York Times." You worked for Giuliani --
AVLON: Yes, I did.
HARLOW: -- back in another day, another time.
AVLON: A very different era of Rudy.
Look, first of all, I mean, you've got to love it when the populists have a $100,000 fundraiser to bail out their friends.
But from an interpersonal standpoint, I mean, given that Donald Trump -- you know, that Rudy Giuliani has basically destroyed his reputation and destroyed himself financially and personally in -- in service of Donald Trump, in the service of echoing Donald Trump's lies, the fact that he has held him out to -- hung him out to dry and not paid his basic legal bills beyond expenses is part of what's gotten Rudy in this, frankly, pathetic situation. So you know, it's the least he can do from that standpoint, but again,
you know, this sort of populist farce continues. You know, $100,000 you know, fundraisers to bail out friend's legal bills, you know, for a populist candidate. See where that logic falls apart.
HARLOW: OK.
BLACKWELL: All right. We'll stand by for tax policies tonight during the debate and see if we get that. John Avlon, Errol Louis, thank you guys.
[06:25:06]
All right. After the debate, get the critical context and politic analysis you need. Anderson Cooper and Dana Bash host CNN's post- debate special. That's live tonight at 11 Eastern.
HARLOW: Newly-released surveillance video shows Philadelphia police shooting into a vehicle. This happened at a traffic stop. And the video contradicts what the police initially said. We're going to show it to you, ahead.
BLACKWELL: Also an update to a story that we brought you here yesterday. Remember that group of school children --
HARLOW: Yes.
BLACKWELL: -- that were trapped in this cable car 900 feet above the ground? We'll tell you how they were rescued.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: Welcome back this morning. There is newly-release surveillance video, and it shows the moment that a Philadelphia police officer shot and killed a man in his car. That happened last Monday, but this video appears to contradict what police initially reported had taken place.
Danny Freeman is following it all. Walk us through this. Obviously, you're -- when you're not here anchoring "EARLY START," you're based in Philadelphia. You cover it there.
DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right.
HARLOW: What do we need to know?
FREEMAN: Well, Poppy, Victor, this story has really been captivating Philadelphia for the better part of a week and a half now.
It all started Monday of last week. So let's say a week and a half ago. Police initially said 27-year-old Eddie Irizarry was driving erratically in Philly's Kensington neighborhood. They said he was driving the wrong way down a one-way street.
Then Eddie parked his car, pulled into a spot, and two officers approached him. Now, police initially said that Eddie lunged at the officers, and that
was after officers told him to put down the weapon and try to deescalate the situation. But then ultimately, officers shot and killed Eddie.
Well, less than 24 hours after police gave that statement, the police commissioner came out and said, after watching the body camera footage back, it was, quote, "very clear that was not what had happened."
Now, we still do not have the body camera footage, but an attorney for the family of Eddie released new video, surveillance video they found from the scene. That's what I'm going to show you.
And I'll just warn you.
